What's with Y'shtola's vision?

I'm confused as to whether she is completely blind but able to sense aetherial flow of all forms of matters or is she half blind and has limited vision.

In ShB, right after the 3rd LW battle she asked Urianger to describe the sky to her in the most Urianger-way. But then in the cave she is able to tell the murals are from certain era, when asked she says it's the peculiarity of the paint used gives it away.

What is with her vision?

She is blind. She uses her own aether to help her see things. Everything is made up of aether. It's why Matoya tells her that it'll kill her one day. Though so far the devs haven't shown what kind of toll it's been taking on her. She probably just wanted Urianger to give a poetic version of what the night sky looked like on the 1st. These types of questions are best suited for the Lore section of the forum. I do believe there was/is a thread that talks about this topic in that section.

From my understanding, she can see using a technique that allows her to see the aether everything is made out of. Maybe the different paints on the wall had variations in their aetheric composition she could differentiate where as the sky was only a vision/illusion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

She is blind. She uses her own aether to help her see things. Everything is made up of aether. It's why Matoya tells her that it'll kill her one day. Though so far the devs haven't shown what kind of toll it's been taking on her. She probably just wanted Urianger to give a poetic version of what the night sky looked like on the 1st. These types of questions are best suited for the Lore section of the forum. I do believe there was/is a thread that talks about this topic in that section.

---

This here. Also, though Matoya did say that, there was no timeline given. It could simply mean she'll leave 5 years less then the average lifespan of her kind. It's not something that actually has to be directly addressed in the story itself.

She is blind in that her eyes no longer see light. She is able to use her own life force to perceive aether, which allows her to see somewhat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mimilu

From my understanding, she can see using a technique that allows her to see the aether everything is made out of. Maybe the different paints on the wall had variations in their aetheric composition she could differentiate where as the sky was only a vision/illusion?

---

This! Perhaps the way aetherflow works is like wavelength, the paint on the wall stands out from the wall while the sky is just a flat broad emptiness.

I tend to think of it as something almost like echo-location. Maybe not in terms of specific mechanics but more in terms of it's general function. She can expend aether to "see" but it's not like she's using aether to power regular vision so even when she is using her aether to see, she's not only not "seeing" normally but there are limits to what she can "see." Hence why she asked Urianger to describe the sky to her. She either can can perceive it but knows that what she's "seeing" is not what an actual sky looks like, or maybe she can't even "see" the sky at all with her ability and just sort of "sees" it as a blank void.

That's my head canon anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

Though so far the devs haven't shown what kind of toll it's been taking on her.

---

In fairness not much time has really passed.

I forget sometimes myself because of how many expansions there have been but in-game it has not actually been that long.

For Warcraft players, she's got demon hunter vision (Illidan). :P

I dont mind her being all sorts of neat, I just hope she doesn't get to deus ex lifestream herself out of situations in EW. At least without some sort of more real consequence (like maybe she goes full stop blind). People don't have to die for the story to be fun, just that last time we had her scare I wasn't shocked because I just assumed she had 200 yalm thick plot armor and that ended being correct. If it happens again I'm just going to laugh.

I like to think of it like Neo in the matrix where he could see everything as code. If you think of it like that it all makes more sense. She can “see” the different paints on the murals (based on how it appears in the code) but she can’t see things as beautiful like the return of the night sky, it’s all just 1’s and 0’s to her which is why she wanted the beauty described to her.

She has special eyes

https://youtu.be/V-fRuoMIfpw

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

In fairness not much time has really passed.

I forget sometimes myself because of how many expansions there have been but in-game it has not actually been that long.

---

Depends on how much time you want to say has passed in the time bubble. As more than once has the game said that this or that will take a month. Part of the reason people get grumpy about her eye sight not bothering her as the devs seem to acknowledge that it's a thing when they remember it while not having it seem to place any strain on her. Heck they've showed us how hampered Thancred is from no longer being able to teleport or really use his own aether. Yet she who has gone and used flow twice seems to not be as hampered.

As another example as how everything has aether as part of it we learn from the Alchemy quest line thar happens in Mor Dhona that even enchanted ink takes on the atherial color of its maker's soul. As we make a potion that helps solve a mystery by having the WoL create a pot of enchanted ink and compare it to ink used in a book we found. So, paint would definitely have something in it.

Probably Endwalker would be a nice moment for her to show more weakness. Its true that not much time has passed since she lost her sight, but the fact that Matoya warned her as soon as she saw her hints that the consecuences can be greater than lowering her lifespan a few years, moreso if she starts taking a more active role in combat like she did on Shadowbringers

Dem spoilers tho

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItMe

She has special eyes

https://youtu.be/V-fRuoMIfpw

---

Not even going to look but I know what it is. >w>


"My braaaand!"

Yeah, I was confused at first, too. Not trying to disparage the writers (whom I commend) and the story (which I do love), but it's a common fictional technique to have a character afflicted with a disability - in this case, blindness - yet be virtually unaffected by the loss of senses because of reasons, plot, etc.

See also: Geordie La Forge, Daredevil, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adeacia

This here. Also, though Matoya did say that, there was no timeline given. It could simply mean she'll leave 5 years less then the average lifespan of her kind. It's not something that actually has to be directly addressed in the story itself.

---

I recall that it was really only the English translation that said it would shorten her life, though I could be wrong as I don't speak the other languages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Dem spoilers tho

---

welcome to general discussion, the no-mans-land of spoilers

I always interpreted it as she passively uses her mana to see, but if she either strains herself or really forces it she begins to burn her lifespan. I think her sister made a comment about it as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

Depends on how much time you want to say has passed in the time bubble. As more than once has the game said that this or that will take a month. Part of the reason people get grumpy about her eye sight not bothering her as the devs seem to acknowledge that it's a thing when they remember it while not having it seem to place any strain on her. Heck they've showed us how hampered Thancred is from no longer being able to teleport or really use his own aether. Yet she who has gone and used flow twice seems to not be as hampered.

---

She was only gone for a very short while the second time, she was brought back almost immediately.
The way I interpreted it was that the longer you stay the higher the risks, which was why we were in a rush to get her back when we found out what happened.
Thancred just made it out worse than she did the first time.
He got more unlucky.

I agree to some extent that there wasn't much of a consequence to it in effect.
But I also don't think that there was meant to be a directly noticable one like with Thancred, I think they just wanted to kinda leave that as a thing that yeah she's back but her lifespan was drastically shortened.
Not in the sense that she'll die because of it ingame but just to make you feel like there was a cost.

I don't really think that we need to see it happen, at least imo.
It's like if you were playing a RPG and a character got cancer from some radiation event, I don't think that it needs to be sped up and that the character needs to develop cancer and die from it on-screen.
The implications I got was that Y'shtola is going to die or at least weaken a lot and have to stop doing it and go totally blind at some point, but not necessarily on-screen and during the time that the game takes place in ( unless she survives and there is a time-skip ).

I just assumed her aether-vision has a limited range, it's fine for day to day use, sometimes even better than seeing using light, but the stars are simply too far away to sense using whatever method she's using.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jandor

I just assumed her aether-vision has a limited range, it's fine for day to day use, sometimes even better than seeing using light, but the stars are simply too far away to sense using whatever method she's using.

---

This is actually a really good point I didn't consider.

So basically she's magically near-sighted.

I recall a similar discussion in the lore-forum quite a while back - with the premise being "Why cant she see the night sky, but could see things like the ink?".

My personal theory is and was that her aether vision works a bit like "thermal vision" - I imagine what she sees looks like what a thermal camera would see, but instead of picking up temperature, shes picking up aether and sees everything in vage, colorful "ather-shapes" (seeing how ink/paint can be magically infused, she should be able to see the paitings that way as well).
But those are not "pretty" images. Its enough to get by, but a lot of the "beauty" or "atmosphere" is lost. Just compare a thermal vision image with a "normal" one - you might get all the important information about what is where, but it doesnt look as nice. (I'm currently re-watching "Night on Earth" on Netflix and while the heat vision cameras are cool, lions dont look as majestic in those pictures, compared to ones in daylight).

In regards to the night sky its not about the information, its about the atmosphere, beauty and feeling of it. Even if she can see the aether signiature of the stars and get an idea of the night sky being back, its going to be a very different experience than actually "seeing" it - she can see the information, but not the beauty, so to speak. Thats why shes asking Urianger to describe it to her. The night sky means so much more than just "There is darkness. There are stars.", specially to the people she spent so much time with that just getting the information is not enough. Maybe one could compare it to reading a science paper about stars to reading a poem about stars? She only gets the science paper, but she (also) wants the poem - so shes asking someone to read it for her.


Edit: Found the old thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-shtola-s-eyes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adeacia

This here. Also, though Matoya did say that, there was no timeline given. It could simply mean she'll leave 5 years less then the average lifespan of her kind. It's not something that actually has to be directly addressed in the story itself.

---

They do deliberately mention it takes a toll on her lifeforce though, in story telling it would be strange to mention something like that and do nothing with it. I expect it will come up again, there have been plenty of things in the story they've brought up, then concluded several expansions later or more.

I doubt they'd kill her off, she's in enough of the story to have plot armor at this stage, but my guess would be it will start showing effect when it comes to the final battles in Endwalker. That's sure to be a lot of strain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

They do deliberately mention it takes a toll on her lifeforce though, in story telling it would be strange to mention something like that and do nothing with it. I expect it will come up again, there have been plenty of things in the story they've brought up, then concluded several expansions later or more.

I doubt they'd kill her off, she's in enough of the story to have plot armor at this stage, but my guess would be it will start showing effect when it comes to the final battles in Endwalker. That's sure to be a lot of strain.

---

I've seen plenty of stories have situations like this, but it doesn't take its toll until after the story ends. Says what happens to them during the ending. Wild Arms 4 is an example. One character has some kind of condition that will kill her sooner rather than later. It's brought up many times in the story, and during the ending it explains that she only lives for a few years after the story concludes. The Suikoden series is also good for this kind of thing. During the ending it shows what happened to every single one of the possible 108 characters you actually recruited after the story ended.

While it's true that being this is an mmo that format may not work quite as well unless its done properly, it's still a thing that can be done.

I don't give them that much credit. I'm convinced it's a writing oversight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReynTime

I don't give them that much credit. I'm convinced it's a writing oversight.

---

I think I recall that in the Japanese version the way it's phrased is far less severe sounding than the English version. More 'that's not a very healthy thing to do' rather than 'OMG you're using up your life-force.'

Funny how I just got to this cutscene in game and was wondering the exact same thing.

And then this thread appears before me. Serendipity!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

She was only gone for a very short while the second time, she was brought back almost immediately.
The way I interpreted it was that the longer you stay the higher the risks, which was why we were in a rush to get her back when we found out what happened.
Thancred just made it out worse than she did the first time.
He got more unlucky.

I agree to some extent that there wasn't much of a consequence to it in effect.
But I also don't think that there was meant to be a directly noticable one like with Thancred, I think they just wanted to kinda leave that as a thing that yeah she's back but her lifespan was drastically shortened.
Not in the sense that she'll die because of it ingame but just to make you feel like there was a cost.

I don't really think that we need to see it happen, at least imo.
It's like if you were playing a RPG and a character got cancer from some radiation event, I don't think that it needs to be sped up and that the character needs to develop cancer and die from it on-screen.
The implications I got was that Y'shtola is going to die or at least weaken a lot and have to stop doing it and go totally blind at some point, but not necessarily on-screen and during the time that the game takes place in ( unless she survives and there is a time-skip ).

---

I don't really want to see it either. Heck I tend to not pay it much mind. I just have that info in the back of my head so I can pop it out as a reminder to people who forgot. It just feels different with how the devs treat it and her as a whole versus other characters. So, sure she was barely in the lifestream the second time which normally shouldn't be a big deal. Yet this time she went in just as a soul. Don't get me wrong I love 'Shtola, but I can see where a few people feel that she has as thick plot armor as the WoL does. If only based off that she has been the face of the game for cross over type stuff and whatnot.

We actually have the "Aether" filter in Gpose mode (second to last filter.). I assumed that it's what the Scions see when they use their aetherometer binoculars, but it's also possible that it's what Y'shtola sees now.

Everything is blue and white; she's fully colorblind now. The contrast is also inverted, like a negative. So she can see outlines clearly, and some textures, but things don't look the way they did before at all.

She can 'see' through the vibrations in the ground. That's why she always walks around barefoot.
Or by loudly screaming and getting back an echo.

.. oh wait.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jandor

I think I recall that in the Japanese version the way it's phrased is far less severe sounding than the English version. More 'that's not a very healthy thing to do' rather than 'OMG you're using up your life-force.'

---

Nah, the English and Japanese versions are in agreement here in that that is slowly causing her to die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

She probably just wanted Urianger to give a poetic version of what the night sky looked like on the 1st.

---

Slight tangent, but would anyone else have just died if she had asked for him to describe the night sky to her and he had to awkwardly explain that while we dispelled the light screen in the sky, we'd done it at about Noon so it's still light out?

Or just cloudy weather.

https://i.redd.it/wz1kjynzq7161.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItMe

Nah, the English and Japanese versions are in agreement here in that that is slowly causing her to die.

---

Emphasis on slowly.

She has scriptwriter's magic blindsight. She can see anything that the writers want her to bring up, but none of what they don't.

Really though, it could have just been priorities. If using the magic sight burns up her life, and she's not exactly lived hundreds of years without one, it makes more sense for her to ask Urianger to wax lyrical about it(the night sky). The cave paintings on the other hand portray Hydaelyn and Zodiark, so she calls attention to them.

As far as we've been shown, there doesn't seem to be a way to discern when she's using the vision and when she isn't. We just know that she can. We also know that her new vision can be fooled if you cover up someone's aether with enough of another's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Slight tangent, but would anyone else have just died if she had asked for him to describe the night sky to her and he had to awkwardly explain that while we dispelled the light screen in the sky, we'd done it at about Noon so it's still light out?

---

You mean like the few times people have actually had that happen to them? Or like the cloudy example but it's raining buckets? Die? No, have their immersion ruined a little? Maybe.

To be fair, regular noon is still very different from the Everlasting Light special weather.