does scholar lacks in its aesthetic compared to the other healers?

Don't get me wrong. i love Eos and Seraph especially but in the skills department i think they are a bit outdated. For example excogitation, its that money coming out of it?.

I was under the impression that Excogitation was the Scholar ripping pages from their book to give the target. Once the effect triggers it seems an explosion of those pages flies upward. As for the general Aesthetic of Scholar it is definitely a bit bland. Art of War is the main offender but Succor, Adlo, Physick, Indomitability, and Lustrate are all easily forgettable.

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Originally Posted by Szylver

Don't get me wrong. i love Eos and Seraph especially but in the skills department i think they are a bit outdated. For example excogitation, its that money coming out of it?.

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I think the main dissociation is the naming convention, lol. (Though Art of War is pretty lackluster).

SCH's thematic is that they are strategists, and their strategies/plans are all written in their Codex (main weapon is a book). The central animation of SCH's skills is that you're activating the plans written inside the book. It makes more sense when you think of it that way. The Japanese version of the skill names all fit with this thematic, though most of them are named with "plans / methods" instead. The English translation gives power to the words themselves to indicate the purpose of the skill's intended effect, which isn't as easily understandable at times since the concept is more abstract and vague.

EX:
Indomitability - 不撓不屈の策 (Fudōfukutsu no saku) - Indomitable plan
Lustrate - 生命活性法 (Seimei kassei-hō) - Life activation method

The word of Excogitation means to "think out, plan, or devise." This skill is a literal representation of the meaning, with SCH's written plans in the book taking form as an aetherial page. This page is then being given into someone as a delayed healing buff.

The Japanese translation to the skill is "Far sight and deep design​ plan"... which is a bit more easier to understand when you see the skill's effect, but the skill's naming would imply it's a plan from your book - so the animation is also more intuitive that it's a page you're giving to someone else and not money.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

I think the main dissociation is the naming convention, lol. (Though Art of War is pretty lackluster).

SCH's thematic is that they are strategists, and their strategies/plans are all written in their Codex (main weapon is a book). The central animation of SCH's skills is that you're activating the plans written inside the book. It makes more sense when you think of it that way. The Japanese version of the skill names all fit with this thematic, though most of them are named with "plans / methods" instead. The English translation gives power to the words themselves to indicate the purpose of the skill's intended effect, which isn't as easily understandable at times since the concept is more abstract and vague.

EX:
Indomitability - 不撓不屈の策 (Fudōfukutsu no saku) - Indomitable plan
Lustrate - 生命活性法 (Seimei kassei-hō) - Life activation method

The word of Excogitation means to "think out, plan, or devise." This skill is a literal representation of the meaning, with SCH's written plans in the book taking form as an aetherial page. This page is then being given into someone as a delayed healing buff.

The Japanese translation to the skill is "Far sight and deep design​ plan"... which is a bit more easier to understand when you see the skill's effect, but the skill's naming would imply it's a plan from your book - so the animation is also more intuitive that it's a page you're giving to someone else and not money.

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Oh i see, thats cool and makes sense. Still i think the skills need a remodel or something to look more appealing to the player. AST card system and spells look really pretty, WHM elemental spells and the light spells also look really nice compared to SCH Broil and Biolysis.

At the moment it lacks in both visual and gameplay aesthetics. I feel like the hands gestures and postures have always looked good for the most part, but come shadowbringers and we received the terrible art of war, and spamming broil certainly doesn't look as good as spamming glare now. I don't mind the more simple visual approach to scholar but as it stands a bunch of spells look silly/rehashed.

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Originally Posted by Szylver

Oh i see, thats cool and makes sense. Still i think the skills need a remodel or something to look more appealing to the player. AST card system and spells look really pretty, WHM elemental spells and the light spells also look really nice compared to SCH Broil and Biolysis.

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It's a matter of taste, it's hard to find something that appeals to everybody.

SCH character animations work for me- The quick and sharp hand movements, the pointing and commanding gestures are perfect for a tactitian fantasy. (They also fit very well for a more "masculine" character like a hrothgar or a roegadyn, as opposed to the graceful and light movements of an WHM or an AST. Not that there is anything wrong with a graceful giant, I just don't happen to personally like it.)

In terms of spell effects, I would't say SCH lacks flash. Indomitability and Seraph/Consolation are very bright and sparkly animations. Broil III and Biolysis are darker yes, but they are also have pretty elaborate effects with the sigils and runes which fit with the "magic writing" aesthetic. The old Art of war is definitely lacking, and Art of War II isn't exactly spectacular but at least fits better with the rest of the aesthetic.

Honestly, I am personally fine with the magic runes and "knowledge" aesthetic of SCH. The only thing I don't like about SCH's aesthetic is the fairy spells. I am fine with the butterfly particle effects of Fey Blessing, considering it's a fairy ability, but for example I don't like the looks of our future ability "Expedient".

For an ability that gives a speed buff , I was expecting a more "March forward!" type of command, like a general ordering a charge, rather than a tornado of butterflies.

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Originally Posted by Szylver

Oh i see, thats cool and makes sense. Still i think the skills need a remodel or something to look more appealing to the player. AST card system and spells look really pretty, WHM elemental spells and the light spells also look really nice compared to SCH Broil and Biolysis.

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It's just personal preference. I think Broil and Biolysis look much better than what AST and WHM have.

Just make fairy interact with player more, sit on head/shoulder, cheer/hi5, etc. would certainly boost it popularity if only to take more pictures, lul

Scholar’s biggest issue at least thematically is that it doesn’t really have a consistent identity across it’s kit. It’s ‘fine’ (art of war aside) but it just seems a bit confused in places.

Big +1 on more emphasis on fairy actions too, that aspect of the job is wasted. Lazy =(

For me, I think its identity just feels murky. I don't get "Military strategist" from the majority of SCH's spells. I feel like, especially with SCH stemming from ACN, that it should feel more like a combination of light and dark magic: light from the faerie and dark from the scholar. Expedient exacerbates this because it's an ability that comes from the scholar but has visual similarities with faerie abilities like Fey Blessing (green-blue hue with butterflies spiraling out).

I think it would do SCH a lot of good if it got new animations for spells like Adloquium, Physick, Lustrate, etc. that emphasized some of the visual themes in spells like Broil, Biolysis, Chain Stratagem, etc. Gameplay is the bigger issue really, but let's face it. FFXIV is a community of aesthetic snobs, myself included. We like are jobs looking cool, epic, and pretty, and SCH has really never received anything that looked or felt grand. Seraph's not bad, but also very tame in her appearance and abilities.

AST got Neutral Sect and Horoscope which both look a lot cooler. WHM got Afflatus Misery

in 4.0, AST got Earthly Star, and SCH got Fey Union. Earthly Star wins that one in my book.

in 3.0, AST had Celestial Opposition, and SCH got Dissipation...

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Scholar’s biggest issue at least thematically is that it doesn’t really have a consistent identity across it’s kit. It’s ‘fine’ (art of war aside) but it just seems a bit confused in places.

Big +1 on more emphasis on fairy actions too, that aspect of the job is wasted. Lazy =(

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It seems the Damage spells are getting a bit more consistent, now that AoWII gets new visuals closer to the pearlescent runes that Broil III, Broil IV and Biolysis have. Energy Drain still has the old look of the blood red injection which I guess fits thematically with a life-steal ability.

Healing spells tend to hover around the lime-green hues, with sometimes iridiscent blue or yellowish glows. Succor and Adloquium have these red circles of runes around the grimmoire when casting, that Recitation seems to take inspiration from-

Attack spells have a pearly sky-blue coloration while healing spells are green. Both have highlights of red runes- or reddish effects around them.

Chain Stratagem is an outlier, with a very distinct "Data scan" almost cybernetic aspect to it.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

It seems the Damage spells are getting a bit more consistent, now that AoWII gets new visuals closer to the pearlescent runes that Broil III, Broil IV and Biolysis have. Energy Drain still has the old look of the blood red injection which I guess fits thematically with a life-steal ability.

Healing spells tend to hover around the lime-green hues, with sometimes iridiscent blue or yellowish glows. Succor and Adloquium have these red circles of runes around the grimmoire when casting, that Recitation seems to take inspiration from-

Attack spells have a pearly sky-blue coloration while healing spells are green. Both have highlights of red runes- or reddish effects around them.

Chain Stratagem is an outlier, with a very distinct "Data scan" almost cybernetic aspect to it.

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I wouldn't call Stratagem an outlier, it fits very well with the damage spells, especially Biolysis and AoW II which could all be abilities from the same family.

Short answer is yes. SCH is not a very flashy healer at all.

Their LB3 animation is really good. It's not as blinding as AST, and the SCH interacts with Seraph. I also really like Consolation, and the animation for Broil is my favorite out of the healer ST spells. I really enjoy how the SCH basically makes missiles come out of their codex.

Their AF gear has also been kind of meh, but there have been some pieces here and there that really work, and they have the best skirt in the entire game.

I guess there is good and bad, just like with any other job. If they updated some of their animations, you wouldn't hear any gripes from me. I honestly wouldn't mind if SCH is the "Third new job" of the next expansion, as is the title that is given to whichever job they basically rework from the ground up. If they do decide to do something along those lines, I hope they do something very interesting with the fairy. There needs to be more interaction between the SCH and Lily/Seraph that truly makes it feel like they are companions on the battlefield. This will restore a lot of the identity that SCH has lost throughout the years.

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Originally Posted by rewd

I wouldn't call Stratagem an outlier, it fits very well with the damage spells, especially Biolysis and AoW II which could all be abilities from the same family.

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I dunno, maybe it's just me. Chain Stratagem while being a sort of a magic writing knowledge ability still has this distinct "computer" feel which to me clashes with the "ink and quill" look of the rest of the abilities. Looks and feels very technological as opposed to the mystic, hermetic look of the rest of the attack spells.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

I dunno, maybe it's just me. Chain Stratagem while being a sort of a magic writing knowledge ability still has this distinct "computer" feel which to me clashes with the "ink and quill" look of the rest of the abilities. Looks and feels very technological as opposed to the mystic, hermetic look of the rest of the attack spells.

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I just don't know where you see the "ink and quill" look. Broil is an explosion and Biolysis uses the same colours and an extremely similar sound effect as Strategem and looks very technological too. Same for Art of War II.

But scholars do have the best auto attack in the game. Fear my encyclopedia!

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

But scholars do have the best auto attack in the game. Fear my encyclopedia!

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maka..... CHOP

One thing that always bugged me about SCH aestetics, is how both SCH and SNN share the same animations how they keep their book "unsheathed", as well as the job specific emotes. At the very least, give one of them something new, for example, like the pose Urianger has when fighting for the first time ever as Arcanist with the WoD Group.

That aside, i dont think SCH lacks much in that department, Gameplay-elements however, theres ALOT of things SCH could need a change, to the point that i would even say that it needs a rework from scratch, because FFXIV SCH is more of a arcanist with a new pet and a focus on basic Healing abilities, rather than what the name implies, but that's for another Thread.

It's still incurring a debt due to it's rushed development/implementation for ARR (not critiquing the Devs here, just that that entire era of development for them was massively cursed due to time constraints and certain things were undoubtedly done/handled due to those circumstances) a debt SMN only just now in EW was able to break free from. All of it's issues stems from that, I hope whatever rework we get for SCH in 7.0/in the future re-incorporates the Light Arts and Dark Arts concept from FFXI. Regardless it's final capstone whenever we reach lvl 99 or 100 should be Tabula Rasa, the very first appearance of a (non playable non Job) scholar in FF1 essentially utilized one and it would be a shame if this wasn't referenced in some manner in SCH's XIV toolkit.

While the Sage lasers are cutting it close, I'm a sucker for magic circle and glyph effects myself so SCH is definitely my favorite as far as the attack spells are concerned, I have no real opinion on the healing spells but I do love how deployment tactics looks alot, how it just explodes out from the target does make me feel like im spreading the shields like I'm supposed to.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

But scholars do have the best auto attack in the game. Fear my encyclopedia!

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Auto attacking with Jebat Eureka/Physeos does seems hurt, actually. Considering how obnoxiously large that book is xD

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Originally Posted by rewd

I just don't know where you see the "ink and quill" look. Broil is an explosion and Biolysis uses the same colours and an extremely similar sound effect as Strategem and looks very technological too. Same for Art of War II.

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Not sure if that was going to show, but there are plenty of spell effects that have a wreath of written words on them, that's what I meant with "ink and quill" . That seems to be very consistent along with the geometric patterns, circles and delineations, where as Chain Stratagem has the screens with sort of inintelligble things on them.

Now that I looked closerly at the Biolysis animation it does look more "techy" than I recall.

https://i.ibb.co/DYxYgtZ/SCHSpells.jpg

One thing I do like about the aesthetics of Scholar is Broil IV. I was worried about all three healers having the same appearance with all of their attacks being unaspected, mainly because Broil III, Glare, and Malefic IV all have a "sparkly light" look to them. Broil IV has more of a fire aesthetic going on which does the job justice as it's also one that has traditionally been able to use both white and black magic.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Just make fairy interact with player more, sit on head/shoulder, cheer/hi5, etc. would certainly boost it popularity if only to take more pictures, lul

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Throw in uniques for Eos and Selene! ;)

Honestly for the longest time I figured SCH was moving towards being the Technological Healer with the spell effects added in Shadowbringers but then they went and ADDED the Technological Healer as a separate class entirely.

So i'm not really sure what SCH is going for now.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Just make fairy interact with player more, sit on head/shoulder, cheer/hi5, etc. would certainly boost it popularity if only to take more pictures, lul

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That would be so cool.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Just make fairy interact with player more, sit on head/shoulder, cheer/hi5, etc. would certainly boost it popularity if only to take more pictures, lul

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Also when you do a dance emote the fairy can do a little spinny flying dance of her own around you.

A single animation for all dances will suffice.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

Also when you do a dance emote the fairy can do a little spinny flying dance of her own around you.

A single animation for all dances will suffice.

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Im still shocked and appalled that pets aren't part of the Battle Stance and Victory Pose Emotes for Arcanist, Scholar, and Summoner.

Personally I like Scholar's Aesthetic, it's just that its gameplay doesn't really feel like a "tactician" anymore

If they added more skills like Excog and Deployment tactics, brought back An Eye For An Eye to be a flat 10% mitigation that's still deployable, and added more delay skills like how AST has Earthly Star for a delayed heal, then we could get something that could be very interesting gameplaywise, especially if they brought back more DoTs to keep track of

Heck I'd be super fine with them getting rid of Energy Drain if Scholar gameplay was kind of an E12S phase 2 situation centered around using Aetherflow charges for heals, but instead of delayed mechanics going off you'd have a sequence of delayed healing skills going off over the course of 60 seconds

That being said, in terms of expansion skills recitation is pretty cool as a skill that goes off Deployment, Fey Blessing is alright but nothing to write home about, and Summon Seraph just feels out of place and like the summoner designer was like "Oh right, let's just give them a more glowy more powerful pet for 22s and call it a day"

You can look at the other healers to see that SCH just doesn't have a solid theming basis in XIV.

WHM has graduated from the CNJ earth/wind/water spells to rainbow holy powers. AST has always had the flashy stars and cards in their kits which connected to their fortune-teller identity. SGE is the techno aether healer with lasers and sleek attacks/heals. SCH is...a bookworm with a few fairies it barely controls...who that tosses out geometric attacks with arcane writing mixed in, has buff abilities like recitation (more arcane writing) and deployment tactics (yellow/orange and has shields images), but then heals with greenish spells or skills like excog/indom/fey blessing.

Though Adlo/succor/Lustrate/Sacred Soil are really more blue in their animations despite the icons being green which kinda sums up the mess that is SCH. Then the random techno screens chain stratagem thrown in which looks more in line with SGE now. Even summoning the faeries still uses the wind and earth effects from ACN/SMN in the casting animation. The faeries themselves are just skins now...no more Eos the Healing or Selene the Support faeries. Same animations and spells no matter which fairy you use. Seraph isn't even a more powerful version of the basic faerie spells...just has the added AOE shield and shielded embraces.

Instead of building on the book and fairy theme, SE kinda chucked a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what stuck.

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Originally Posted by Kalinas

WHM has graduated from the CNJ earth/wind/water spells to rainbow holy powers.

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Not true anymore in EW.