Coffee Buscuits on steroids; a gil making method causing housing problems

There is a gil generating methods named by those who know it - and I'm not even kidding here - Fight Club. Those who know of this method don't want it to become too widespread, and for good reason, because it might get nerfed.

I'm posting it here because I think it's incentivizing people to hoard a large amount of housing. There are people on certain discords bragging about their multi gil cap wealth and the 2-3 digit number of plots they own, almost on a daily basis. Now if SE could at least take away the passive gil making capabilities of housing, it might allevate the housing problem, and fight inflation with one stroke.

EDIT: Wow the flight club members sure are quick to denounce this. They are saying this might not be that worthwhile to the average player having access to one fc house, and they are right to a certain degree. The point of this post is that it's a very lucrative method when scaled, by hoarding a lot of houses; this gil making method directly incentivize and support those that sit on a large amount of housing. But don't just take my word for it, here are some endorsements from some flight club members: https://imgur.com/a/u213pGX

EDIT2: Why this getting nerfed is a good thing for everyone save for a select few - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5706104


How to 'easily' make gil with submersibles

I put 'easily' in quotes because the barrier of entry to this method is fc housing. But the pay off is 300~500k gil per day (RNG dependant), and the maintenance would just be sending 4 subs out every 2 days; very minimal.

The Setup

The setup may looking daunting but you only have to do it once for each fc and it all pays off in the end. I won't go in too much detail, but the gist is:

1. This is the most difficult part - come in posession of a fc housing. Doesn't matter the size, and build a workshop.
2. Ignore airships and rank up your submersibles to 90. You can look up guides on how to do that most efficiently.
3. For each sub, you want a final build of: Modified Shark Hull, Coelacanth Stern, Modified Shark Bow, Modified Shark Bridge (this is just one of the viable builds)

Raking in Gil Every 2 Days

• Send your submersibles out to Deep-Sea Site: Unidentified derelict -> The Wreckage of Discovery I -> Concealed bay -> The Wreckage of the Headway
• With the above build, the trip would take 1d22h at max rank
• The four sectors above all includes salvaged jewelry (vendors for 8000-13000 each) and the Extravagant versions (vendors for 27000-34500 each) in their loot table
• When sub comes back you vendor the loot and get gil. No need to repeatly craft/turn in a quest or deal with the marketboard, just vendor the stuff!
• Loot is RNG dependant, but on average this generates 100k gil per sub per day, which amounts to 400k gil per day, per fc workshop, for very minimal work aside from the setup.

How this contributes to housing problems

For most players, we just want one plot for our own enjoyment, maybe one more for your fc if you lead one so you can provide a home for those without a plot.

Now aside from flipping houses for massive gil gains, even just sitting on a plot will generate significant amount of gil almost passively. This incentivizes those people to own double to triple digit plots, with most of them being fc housing.

In the current system, each service account can own 9 plots per world (1 personal + 8 fc), that amounts to 72 plots per service account per data center. Since they are just generating gil with the plot (and later to flip/upgrade), it doesn't even have to be in their home world. So just 1 service account allows you to hoard 72 plots for gil making from those that might just want a home.

Thus there are people growing gil-wealth with their plots, and use those wealth to buy up more plots, injects a significant amount of gil into the game, contribute to inflation, drive up the player resale market, and here we are today. They aren't all of the problem (perhaps not even 50%), but they are a significant contributing factor.

What I hope to accomplish with this post

I wish to let everyone know of this method so at least information-wise everyone is on level ground.

Just like coffee biscuits, with widespread "abuse" hopefully Square Enix would take notice and finally nerf the vendor price for the salvaged jewelry. If workshops stop making gil, it would incentivize the hoarders to sell their plot, driving up supply and driving down price. At least until Endwalker where (hopefully the new fc member cooldown is long) it'd be almost impossible to sell, and we may see more auto-demos pop up.

And if it remains unnerfed, then at least we all get to make some gil.

I mean, even on a slow day I can usually make 100k+ if I try hard enough. Or even if I don't try at all. I don't even have an FC house or workshop either. I don't think these are really to blame. Nerfing gil in various places won't solve the actual problems regarding housing. It runs deeper than that.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I mean, even on a slow day I can usually make 100k+ if I try hard enough. Or even if I don't try at all. I don't think these are really to blame. Nerfing gil in various places won't solve the actual problems regarding housing. It runs deeper than that.

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I think the problem comes when you multiply it by all those FCs who own entire wards. Sure 1 house of 4 subs isn't much, but 27 houses times 4 subs generates a lot of gil

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I think the problem comes when you multiply it by all those FCs who own entire wards. Sure 1 house of 4 subs isn't much, but 27 houses times 4 subs generates a lot of gil

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I guess that is fair, yeah. But still, gil isn't the issue. :p Or at least it's not the biggest one.

Ah, so that's what really goes on inside those ghost RP villages taken up by 30 copies of the same FC.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I guess that is fair, yeah. But still, gil isn't the issue. :p Or at least it's not the biggest one.

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You're right of course. There isn't nearly enough housing supply for all the players in the worlds. However it should at least be better and more comforting to know that most houses are enjoyed by regular owners, and not people who sit on empty houses to generate gil.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I mean, even on a slow day I can usually make 100k+ if I try hard enough. Or even if I don't try at all. I don't even have an FC house or workshop either. I don't think these are really to blame. Nerfing gil in various places won't solve the actual problems regarding housing. It runs deeper than that.

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Seriously.

Retainer Ventures + selling daily map + daily crafting beast tribe + expert roullette + 6 crafting leves is easily 200K+ a day doing next to nothing.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Seriously.

Retainer Ventures + selling daily map + daily crafting beast tribe + expert roullette + 6 crafting leves is easily 200K+ a day doing next to nothing.

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List 5 activities taking hr+ combined
"doing next to nothing"

Only slightly related to this post but I kinda wish they would add the workshop access to apartments as an extra room you can buy and access through the apartment building entrance thingy. Right now only a very small subset of people even have access/interact with that system and it seems like such a waste.

Thought about a greenhouse for gardening but the new island thing might provide that for everyone anyway.

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Originally Posted by kekebear

There is a gil generating methods named by those who know it - and I'm not even kidding here - Fight Club. Those who know of this method don't want it to become too widespread, and for good reason, because it might get nerfed.

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What is the first rule of fight club?
What is the second rule of fight club?

There was a time when 400k per day for a lot of set-up and a specific condition like owning a entire FC + house would have been peanuts. Crafting or even maps were better income and accessible.

It's a symptom of rampant botting and everything being ridiculously easy to make and hardly worth selling that raw gil sources like this are even noticed, never mind being in danger of nerfs. The fact that the scrap gil from leves is actually being nerfed already just shows how bad it is. When you kill off the market board, people have no alternative but to dig into raw gil supplies, which isn't sustainable when everyone does it because gil generation creates inflation.

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Originally Posted by DenL

List 5 activities taking hr+ combined
"doing next to nothing"

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Next to nothing is hitting a crafting macro with a sound effect to let you know it finished 18 times for leves and not paying attention to it at all.

Check retainers: 2m (next to nothing)
Getting a map and selling: 5m (next to nothing)
Daily Crafting Beast Tribe: 10m (mostly travel time)
Expert: 15-20m
6 crafting leves: 20m if I've prepped before, 40m if I have to gather everything myself.

57 minutes minimum, 1 Hour 20m otherwise. Lets not pretend that any of that is super time consuming. None of that requires much thought at all. So yeah, it's next to no effort. No timed nodes, no expert crafting.

You don't have to do all of that if you don't want to. Expert Roulette is only 15K of that for in demand.

Or simply make 180 cofee biscuit and turn it to npc, that is 300k gil at least, well i enjoy doing crafting, if you have fun, it will felt like you are not wasting time at all, the only part i dont have fun is the turning in the biscuit to the npc...... my precious biscuit XD

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Originally Posted by kekebear

Those who know of this method don't want it to become too widespread, and for good reason, because it might get nerfed.

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The information has been made available publicly eons ago. Ever heard of memes? Comedy?

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Originally Posted by kekebear

it might allevate the housing problem

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How badly do you wish to die on that hill?

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Originally Posted by kekebear

fight inflation with one stroke.

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Delusional. You might want to read on the subject.

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Originally Posted by kekebear

very minimal work aside from the setup.

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Let's not talk about the upfront cost and the time commitment right?

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Originally Posted by DenL

List 5 activities taking hr+ combined
"doing next to nothing"

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I mean, I'd consider everything but maybe the crafting leves doing next to nothing. lol Retainers you literally just send them out and wait for them to come back. Snagging the daily map...maybe 5 minutes. Crafting beast tribe quests, roughly the same amount of time. Expert roulette, 10-15 minutes on average. You can probably get most everything else done save the retainer wait while you join the expert queue and then run it. None of them require much effort at all.

Reported for blowing our cover

"get subs to 90"

Ahahah that alone takes about 4-5 months of effort.

Trust me, I've been grinding them up and my subs are still hovering in the 70s.

1) Gil making methods isn't the reason for people hoarding houses.

2) Gil is essentially worthless for people who don't do housing. It is one of the very few gil sinks we have that actually works.

3) 400k per day is pretty average for people who go hard on making gil. I casually make ~150k a day just by touching a few activities. This isn't as insane or game breaking as you think it is. It is also very well known.

You can earn 100k-200k per hour from gathering already, this method seems like more of a pain than its worth. Sure, one fc maybe, but well, swapping characters etc. every few hours to repeat. Would need to be out of ones mind to keep doing that. And just getting to the point of being able to send sub like this, leveling retainers on ventures is less work :P

Honestly OP, sounds like you are hurt from losing your easy coffee-biscuit gil stream.

Subs need an investment of around 10 million gil, a house camp, 6 or so months levelling (if RNG is kind), tonnes of FC points for fuel (which mean less gatcha chances in 6.0) for what is really a small amount of gil compared to other ways.

To do it on more than one FC is going to need multiple accounts too. That's real world money.

Seriously, I make more mining cobalt ore and selling coke. Add in maps, daily roulette, leves, and I blow subs out of the water.

To all the fight club ppl who are trying to convince people this isn't worth it: you guys sure were singing a different tune on your discords though...
https://imgur.com/a/u213pGX

While this isn't something you can just set up willy-nilly due to the time-gating on leveling subs, it would not surprise me if there were at least some people who had the foresight to set up extensive farming operations using solo FCs and alt accounts.

I already know of people who run 5+ accounts for bot farming operations on my server, so having subs farming gil as a side venture would just make that even more lucrative.

2) Gil is essentially worthless for people who don't do housing. It is one of the very few gil sinks we have that actually works.

We do have have the gold mounts now though.
Getting 75 million is quite a bit of work these days.

I got all classes at max level. There's a lot of daily things I can do to make that much money, but I'm way too lazy to do that. Still sitting on a pretty nice nest egg.

Also SE needs to let FCs rent/buy workshops at the grand companies to give them access to some of the stuff most can't get access to.

Everything you said seems fair to me. Before you can even do this you need to somehow acquire an FC house which is no small feat. After that you need to gather all the materials for a submarine which is difficult for a single player to do. Submarines are meant as a group activity for an FC. You then spend 5 months of daily work to level them up while paying money for repairs and fuel. You aren't even factoring in the opportunity cost of spending time on this project instead of doing other gil making activities. After all that does it really sound unfair? Why shouldn't they make slightly better than average gil for this massive effort?

SE was wise to curb the Coffee Biscuits inflation due to how low the barrier of entry was to start turning a significant profit. They have much more important economical issues to worry about than people profiting off half a year of honest hard work.

That discord image just really supports what others have said. Its lot of time, gil investment to get the subs to that point. It also shows just how balanty greedy some players are. Obtaining multiple fc houses just to make a mountain of gil..disgusting. Hope their happy they contributed to the housing problem.

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Originally Posted by hobostew

Only slightly related to this post but I kinda wish they would add the workshop access to apartments as an extra room you can buy and access through the apartment building entrance thingy. Right now only a very small subset of people even have access/interact with that system and it seems like such a waste.

Thought about a greenhouse for gardening but the new island thing might provide that for everyone anyway.

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I mean, I still think that what should be done is make instanced airship housing for FCs. You can 'pilot' the airship to different places (thus changing the view you see outside), you can have a workshop (for company crafting) and greenhouse (for FC gardening), and you can have individual personal rooms just like in an FC house currently. That way, the housing problem doesn't gate an entire FC from participating in the airship/submersible system or gardening.

Moreover, once you have instanced FC airships, you can stop having FCs able to buy the normal houses. It wouldn't fix the entire housing problem, but it would sure as heck alleviate a chunk of the pressure, and you don't have to replace the current housing system itself.

SE made a mistake with housing in FFXIV , but at one point they will change how the system works (if the game keeps growing in pop of course )

the change in EW is a bandaid.

Finite resources by their nature encourage hoarding that is just the nature of the beast.

I dunno if Coffee Biscuit, a leve item is causing any housing problem. It just an item in high demand for said leve.
I probably made 100M or more on them over few couple months and I urge people to get into the market as well.

Was not aware I was part of a fight club, oh well.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

1) Gil making methods isn't the reason for people hoarding houses.

2) Gil is essentially worthless for people who don't do housing. It is one of the very few gil sinks we have that actually works.

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I own 2 houses (FC + personal) and my goal is hitting gil cap in Endwalker. I have no desire to hoard houses. I just like having goals.

I am on one of the sub discords and some of these people are hoarding dozens of houses not only for fc subs but to flip them as well, pretty disgusting. One person even said they had SO many and didn't have space that they "gave away" an M house to a friend. The selfishness is next level with these people. Some people in this thread don't get just how much passive gil having a dozen fc houses nets you. Not to mention the people who admit on that discord to hoarding houses to sell, one even laments its not as good money as it used to be!

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

I am on one of the sub discords and some of these people are hoarding dozens of houses not only for fc subs but to flip them as well, pretty disgusting. One person even said they had SO many and didn't have space that they "gave away" an M house to a friend. The selfishness is next level with these people. Some people in this thread don't get just how much passive gil having a dozen fc houses nets you. Not to mention the people who admit on that discord to hoarding houses to sell, one even laments its not as good money as it used to be!

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Better remove all gil making in the game then /s
I mean you can always report them SE now going to use outside of the game evidence.

Gotta respect the hussle though lol
People paying multiple subs just to maintain all of that, reminds of that Mew guy on the forum there everyone had such a hateboner for.

They not going to be able to flip after 6.0 anyway with relocation updates (or was it 6.1?) so they will either have to keep their stock or dump them on the market.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Better remove all gil making in the game then /s
I mean you can always report them SE now going to use outside of the game evidence.

Gotta respect the hussle though lol
People paying multiple subs just to maintain all of that, reminds of that Mew guy on the forum there everyone had such a hateboner for.

They not going to be able to flip after 6.0 anyway with relocation updates (or was it 6.1?) so they will either have to keep their stock or dump them on the market.

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Nah just the one's that promote abuse of systems that negatively impact other players, i.e house hoarding. Big brain amiright? lol
They can't flip come 6.0 but the one's who hoard for multiple FC houses will still do so, they just wont let go of those houses and SE probably won't take them off them either if the past is any indication. You don't need multiple subs smh, one alt per fc house house is how it goes at the moment and has done for ages, if you wanted it all on the same server sure but these people do business across the whole data centre not just one server lol. No respect for the hussle, it's a scummy and so plainly obvious way to make money just most of us are not such selfish asshats to do it.

If you honestly think this is a significant driver to inflation, you fail economics forever.

FC housing is roughly 30% of houses owned. That's 1728 houses per server. Lets say a tenth of them are doing fight club. You can talk about "ward full of shell FCs" all day, but in reality, that's one ward out of 96, and most servers don't even have this happen, period. So with a tenth of FCs doing fight club, all day every day, that's 173 gil printers going brrr.

A single sub will get you about 100K a day. That's about the same as coffee biscuits. Each FC has four subs. So this problem is roughly the same as 692 players doing coffee biscuits. There are over 10K-15K people logging in on most NA and EU servers every single day. If a tenth of them are doing biscuits, then biscuits are over twice the inflation driver that fight club is.

It isn't even '100k a day with fight club from a single sub'. Sometimes, the 'Fight Club' sub only brings back gemstones or ingots, which, in the latter case, don't go for much, so you need tons of them to make due, if you still bother to sell on the MB.

You could probably make more money with the daily six turn-ins of 9 HQ biscuits on 8 characters per account than other methods. Averaging 6K per turn-in = 108,000 Gil per day, per character, or 864,000 Gil per day for a full stable of Culinarian alts. If all you want to do is buy other peoples' NQ stacks, then you're down to an average of 432K per day minus biscuit cost (approx 60K per 99 stack on my server). That's ridiculous profit for no effort past leveling CUL on that many characters.

As much as I've appreciated being able to make a good chunk of change via this leve, I can understand and respect why they're going to be reducing raw Gil rewards for them. I'll definitely be taking as much advantage of it while I can.

If you are worried about solo FCs grinding mad gil with submarines...
Not counting the gil sunk in for the land plot + house + workshop:

1. It's a 4-5 months commitment to hit lvl 90 and you need to log in every time it returns to send it out again! (have you tried juggling 4 timers that resets at different times of the day?).
2. You need at least 3 sets of submarine parts (initial shark, CSUW lvlup set, final fight club parts all which require tons of mats to unlock the schematics and construct).
3. You need do stuff in game (craft, run dungeons, do supply missions etc) to generate fc credits to buy fuel for the submarines.
4. You need to sink money to maintain the submarines (repair kits).

Ashe10 did a test and was able to get approx 12 million+ gil in a month with 4 submarines per character.
Source:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=997810596

It's a nice way to keep some income flowing in while taking it easy but it pales vs what you could pull from the marketboard as i am sure my fellow gil-capped Eorzeans would know.

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Bonus: some napkin maths for Dwarven Mythril File leves vs submarine income assuming:
- 3x HQ turn-ins per leve
- 6x leves every day as per daily allowance.
- average 7500 gil per file (actual floats between 7400+ to 8600+)
- ignores crystal costs (leves gives more than you use in the long run)
- ignores the 2x ingot and 1x dwarven cotton cost (for simplicity)

(7500 x 3) x 6= 135,000 gil every day.

Fight club each trip takes 1d 20h 52m and the amount received is random.
For simplicity sake, we will take Ashe10's highest monthly record of 12,946,000 (for FOUR submarines total haul) and divide by 30 days and ignore repair costs.

(12,946,000 / 30 days) / 4 = 107,883 gil (per sub) daily, probably less due to RNG.

Considering the number of FCs with houses and fully levelled submarines x4 doing fight club 24/7 is likely limited (capped by land plot availability at the very least), players doing the leve turn-ins would contributes more heavily to inflation simply because of larger numbers of players able to engage in this activity.


TLDR: SE probably knows more about what is contributing to inflation than you think.
They do have access to the backend system / logs you know.

While timegated the triple turn in levequest gil method as is ensures that a player can make 1 million gil every week. Let's say gil reward is 4k. HQ turn in doubles for 8k. Triples make that 24k. 6 leves a day is 144k. 7 days is 1.008 million.

And if you have 4 weeks in a month that becomes 4.032 million.

And it's really easy to do with your geared 80 crafter of choice.

This method is especially easy on Cul/Alc given their leve craft gives you stacks of 3 per craft. And they are stackable and take up less inventory space.

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Originally Posted by Yuumei

TLDR: SE probably knows more about what is contributing to inflation than you think.
They do have access to the backend system / logs you know.

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As much as I'd like to think that, it's a bit concerning that they've done basically nothing about those map-farming RMT bots when they number literally into the hundreds on some servers and should be raising red flags that some kind of exploitation is going on.