MNK GC Weapons VS Ifrit's Claws

From what I understand...

dLVL and weapon damage are the most effective DPS modifiers. Next is STR and INT to their respective caps and finally ATK (ACC thrown in as needed).

My question:
Will the MNK GC weapons w/o the use of sanction be more beneficial than Ifrit’s Claws? I am from The Maelstrom so we can use the Storm Sergeant’s Hooks as the example.

Storm Sergeant’s Hooks:
DMG = 132
Delay = 3.3

Ifrit’s Claws:
DMG = 131
Delay = 3.3
ATK+30
Chance to inflict fire DMG.

Before I spend weeks attempting to determine which is better through parses…
Can anyone shed some light on this?

My initial thought is that it will likely be a wash trading +30ATK and Fire DMG for +1 Weapon DMG. Currently I use the Hooks with sanction and I ask the question for instances where I die during a run. Would it be better to switch back to Ifrit’s Claws?

Thanks

Ifrit do more damage just by the fire effect anyway.

Without the +45ATK, +30ACC +40INT, depending on your GC, the Chief Sergeant weapons can't compete with Ifrit. Their value will be worth exploring once we have more ways to apply Sanction in the event of a KO. If you do not have Ifrit, these are the next best thing even without Sanction.

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Ifrit do more damage just by the fire effect anyway.

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Not necessarily. The added effect of Ifrit procs 9-10% of the time--if I remember right--and then only on normal attacks. On the other hand, you could have +1DMG on all attacks and WSs. A higher DMG rating also yields a higher WS stat cap. How much? We don't know yet, but it's something else to consider.

Although I can say right now with 99% confidence the hooks are better than Ifrit with Sanction active, since +40INT will rocket most MNKs to around 310INT and free up other slots for STR and ATK. Having so much INT in one slot is an extraordinary benefit. Maelstrom MNKs won big with 1.22. =(

If we could set a hp in our grand companies to easily reapply sanction or if there were an rechargeable item that allowed us to apply it in the field then the GC ones without a doubt. Almalexia seems correct in saying the Limsa ones are the pick of the bunch.

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Not necessarily. The added effect of Ifrit procs 9-10% of the time--if I remember right--and then only on normal attacks. On the other hand, you could have +1DMG on all attacks and WSs. A higher DMG rating also yields a higher WS stat cap. How much? We don't know yet, but it's something else to consider.

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I havent tested but it seems to me that it procs far more frequently than 10%
One proc, on one fist gives me at least 30 damage, that should equal with 30 attacks or weaponskills with the GC weapons.

Now about the higher WS cap of only 1 damage, I can't prove my saying but I believe that the cap rise is insignificant unless someone else can provide testing and prove otherwise.

Hooks are better with sanction though, I am with you on that although my STR and INT are already capped even with ifrit claws.
It's too bad that we lose sanction whe we die :/

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

If we could set a hp in our grand companies to easily reapply sanction or if there were an rechargeable item that allowed us to apply it in the field then the GC ones without a doubt. Almalexia seems correct in saying the Limsa ones are the pick of the bunch.

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I usually bloodwarp to my Inn HP in Limsa >> NPC Warp to the GC Command >> Return back to Primal/Dungeon HP. With loading screens and walking distance it takes ~1minute.

Edit: However, it could take longer if you have all 50s.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

I havent tested but it seems to me that it procs far more frequently than 10%
One proc, on one fist gives me at least 30 damage, that should equal with 30 attacks or weaponskills with the GC weapons.

Now about the higher WS cap of only 1 damage, I can't prove my saying but I believe that the cap rise is insignificant unless someone else can provide testing and prove otherwise.

Hooks are better with sanction though, I am with you on that although my STR and INT are already capped even with ifrit claws.
It's too bad that we lose sanction whe we die :/

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I ran AV a few times after picking up the Uldah GC weapons. Had sanction on for the first 2 kills on miser and my howling fist combo was doing 1550's on average. (I wasnt using food that night, atk was at 705 with fof)

Once sanction wore off I switched back to ifrit claws and was doing 1450's on average with the howling fist combo.

Now is it the 15 atk difference (+30 vs +45) or is it the 1 base damage that is making that much of a difference.

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Now is it the 15 atk difference (+30 vs +45) or is it the 1 base damage that is making that much of a difference.

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No it was the +40 Intelligence of the sanction that made the difference.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

No it was the +40 Intelligence of the sanction that made the difference.

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uldah don't have int on them i don't think its +45 attack power i think. I got them on the theory that the +1 damage would outperform ifrit even without sanction, i haven't had a chance to test them yet though.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

No it was the +40 Intelligence of the sanction that made the difference.

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Each Company has a different bonus.

Uldah is +45 atk
LL is +40 int
Grid is +3X acc

I am already at 350 str/310+ int

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

Now is it the 15 atk difference (+30 vs +45) or is it the 1 base damage that is making that much of a difference.

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Not enough samples to say for sure. You could have dealt damage on the lower range for Ifrit and the upper range for GC, although I don't think it's mechanically possible for +15ATK to turn out an additional 100 damage.

To this day, nobody has quantified the value of 1 point of weapon DMG, but the increment from Ifrit to GC is an excellent opportunity to measure it.

My mistake then, I didn't consider tha this was the Uldah weapon we were talking about.
My usual howling fist damage on Miser Mistress is 1450 as well, but I have done 1500 a couple of times with the ifrit claws.

Unfortunately I am a Maelstrom member and I cant test your knuckles my self, but I will get the lominsa ones at some point.
I will wait for other players testing as well. :)

That sucks that best ones are out of reach. What does Flame ones give? And also i had a dream that Yoshi made other GC buyable but x10 more seals to buy lol ahh thoughful thinking.

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Originally Posted by MoonKeeperr

That sucks that best ones are out of reach. What does Flame ones give? And also i had a dream that Yoshi made other GC buyable but x10 more seals to buy lol ahh thoughful thinking.

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I answered that a few post back

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

Each Company has a different bonus.

Uldah is +45 atk
LL is +40 int
Grid is +3X acc

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

I ran AV a few times after picking up the Uldah GC weapons. Had sanction on for the first 2 kills on miser and my howling fist combo was doing 1550's on average. (I wasnt using food that night, atk was at 705 with fof)

Once sanction wore off I switched back to ifrit claws and was doing 1450's on average with the howling fist combo.

Now is it the 15 atk difference (+30 vs +45) or is it the 1 base damage that is making that much of a difference.

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This might explain a lot:

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As Peng pointed out, DPS appears to be the primary damage modifier for WS, not the weapon's damage stat. This is a recent discovery.

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^ That would mean Garuda's Claws are the best weapon then.. Highest DPS and lowest delay, so max AA speed + best WS damage?

I cant tell for sure but its seems that this is the general idea.
We will know more while experimenting.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

I cant tell for sure but its seems that this is the general idea.
We will know more while experimenting.

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Yeah, I have all 3, GC/Ifrit/Garuda so next time we do AV ill try to run some test and gather some parse results.

A lot depends on how tight your rotation is, since MNK can nearly WS non-stop the proc of fire/wind damage is devalued the better you are (higher % of time spent WS'ing).

As far as the GC weapons go the only one I'd think to be better is the LL one with +40 INT at least for Miser's Mistress. The +30 ACC one would most likely always be inferior to Garuda's Claws, and 45 ATK one almost always inferior to Ifrits Claws.

Also it seems that if WS cap is dependent on DPS# Garuda's claws should provide a slightly higher cap around 354-356 STR and 308-312 INT, though at the same time it means if you maintain your stat caps below both weapon's caps they should do identical WS damage which leaves you to only compare their bonus attributes and possible AA damage.

For MM specifically I'd guess LL claws would be the strongest since +40 INT lets you change your gear around enough to gear for either more STR or ATK depending which you need more. Sanction is still stupid though so you'd need to carry around 2 gear sets for incase you die and need to revert to either Garuda or Ifrit claws.

Garuda or Ifrit I don't know which would be better but for MM the Acc is most likely useless and Ifrits +atk should do better than Garuda's +Crit attack. The only thing you'd need to factor is the attack speed / damage difference on AA's and the possibility you can raise your WS's higher if your gear allows you to. Until I either get the claws or see some parse examples I am assuming if your stats are the same for both weapons (under Ifrits #s) then Ifrits should do better, but if you can get past that to 355/312 stat area then Garuda's might be better.

DPS for weapon skill damage stat caps is slightly weird, SE, but it sure allows for different gearing options depending on what type of gear you have available.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

Also it seems that if WS cap is dependent on DPS# Garuda's claws should provide a slightly higher cap around 354-356 STR and 308-312 INT, though at the same time it means if you maintain your stat caps below both weapon's caps they should do identical WS damage which leaves you to only compare their bonus attributes and possible AA damage.

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They don't do identical damage. DPS is used for the WS calculation itself, not just stat caps.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

This might explain a lot:

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I parsed Garuda ax with some other war in SH, I wasn't doing any serious testing but I did notice that on steel cyclone I was maxing 600 and another war was maxing1000. On some ws I was dealing more damage.

If I had to guess, dps number affects the lead in skills to the real ws moves like heavy swing ect. I look forward to seeing some real testing though.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

I parsed Garuda ax with some other war in SH, I wasn't doing any serious testing but I did notice that on steel cyclone I was maxing 600 and another war was maxing1000. On some ws I was dealing more damage.

If I had to guess, dps number affects the lead in skills to the real ws moves like heavy swing ect. I look forward to seeing some real testing though.

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It sounds like the other WAR was using Rampage to boost his damage while you were not.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

I parsed Garuda ax with some other war in SH, I wasn't doing any serious testing but I did notice that on steel cyclone I was maxing 600 and another war was maxing1000. On some ws I was dealing more damage.

If I had to guess, dps number affects the lead in skills to the real ws moves like heavy swing ect. I look forward to seeing some real testing though.

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When testing stuff, try to use yourself as the sample. Farm totems for a few hours with Garuda axe then farm for a few hours with Ifrit axe. Parse the results and then compare the two weapons.

A lot of misinformation is started by people that "eyeball" it and say guy x was doing more then me so his weapon must be better.

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

When testing stuff, try to use yourself as the sample. Farm totems for a few hours with Garuda axe then farm for a few hours with Ifrit axe. Parse the results and then compare the two weapons.

A lot of misinformation is started by people that "eyeball" it and say guy x was doing more then me so his weapon must be better.

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like i said it was nothing serious, was just running a parser while farming. didn't take any documentation or even give it much thought at all. I just noticed some of my WS hit harder and some of his hit harder

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It sounds like the other WAR was using Rampage to boost his damage while you were not.

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i do use rampage but he could have been using it more often throwing off the average on that skill, so your prob right there.

How does one use Rampage "more often?"

Also, I agree with Meatdawg. If thorough testing isn't done, it is in fact better to stay silent in your observations rather than potentially spread misinformation.

Then stop posting and get to work nubs.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

How does one use Rampage "more often?"

Also, I agree with Meatdawg. If thorough testing isn't done, it is in fact better to stay silent in your observations rather than potentially spread misinformation.

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i really don't care if mis info is spread, that's something people who believe everything they read have to deal with. I put a frikken disclaimer in my post, some of you are a lil too serious.

if theres any misinformation its gonna be caused by peoples inability to read and comprehend, not by what i wrote.