genuinely thinking about quitting the game

its no secret to most house hunters that there is a really, really big housing bot problem on crystal. these bots sweep the wards 24/7 and are already pre-programmed to go to any M or L they see autodemo.
well, today might be the final straw in even playing this game for me. this is my third time spotting an autodemo on my sweeps, however, the same bots that i always see are also there. i lose to the bots due to "relo error" and am left watching them instantly teleport away and leave their fc to go and join another burner fc. my third time losing to bots and despite my group of friends reporting them almost every single day nothing has been done to actually stop them.
the news in the live letter didnt make me feel any more hopeful either, instead of those precious few seconds where you're fighting them for the autodemo its now going to be 10-14 hours of that because relocations will no longer be instant. i dont think this will stop the bots, i think it punishes the players for the GMs incompetence to be able to accurately respond to reports and ban the characters that are so obviously bots.
theres no point anymore, after december 3rd it will be nearly impossible to get a plot anymore. square enix really needs to reconsider their new relocation rules and maybe actually get rid of the bots instead of punishing the players for this.
as a player who has swept nearly every day looking for a medium/large i dont think this new system will be fair at all or stop bots. bots dont care, bots arent human, they are running a script, they can sit for 10-14 hours with no harm. we are humans, why should we have to sit for 10-14 hours clicking a placard for relocation just to lose in the same way we have before?
the solution to the resellers and the bot problem is to have GMs actually listen to player reports, for the "STF" to actually care about our reports and the fact that this has happened for months and nothing has been done about it.
im thinking about quitting the game because i want to go to a game that actually cares and listens to its players when it comes to reports, very disappointing news.

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Originally Posted by nvrse

i dont think this will stop the bots, i think it punishes the players for the GMs incompetence to be able to accurately respond to reports and ban the characters that are so obviously bots.

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GMs are forbidden from acting on bots. The Special Task Force (STF), which is a team of a handful of people at the home base in Japan, handles botting and cheating exclusively. A GM can sit there and watch the same obvious botting patterns as you, completely agree with you that they're bots and has the exact same power to do anything about it that you do. You could try using the web form to report them to the STF: https://support.na.square-enix.com/c...382&la=1&fty=2 (bottom of the page, make sure to select the appropriate category from the drop down box)

It will likely be just as effective as the in-game reports but there's not much else that can be done unless the top brass at SE make structural changes to the report flow and who is handling them.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

GMs are forbidden from acting on bots. The Special Task Force (STF), which is a team of a handful of people at the home base in Japan, handles botting and cheating exclusively. A GM can sit there and watch the same obvious botting patterns as you, completely agree with you that they're bots and has the exact same power to do anything about it that you do. You could try using the web form to report them to the STF: https://support.na.square-enix.com/c...382&la=1&fty=2 (bottom of the page, make sure to select the appropriate category from the drop down box)

It will likely be just as effective as the in-game reports but there's not much else that can be done unless the top brass at SE make structural changes to the report flow and who is handling them.

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unfortunately, me and my friends have reported them multiple times to the STF, at least once a day, and nothing seems to have changed regarding their accounts

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Originally Posted by nvrse

unfortunately, me and my friends have reported them multiple times to the STF, at least once a day, and nothing seems to have changed regarding their accounts

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I'm on the same page, its sad when you can list off the names of the bots on crystal right off the top of your head, know exactly what theyre doing, have seen them buy plots and leave the FC multiple times, report it to both support desk options every day you see it, but nothing is being done and they keep swiping up more plots to put on their rmt sites and discords.

I've really lost any faith with the GM and STF teams both. I've never gotten anything back but copy pasted responses saying they'll look into it.

I have an entire spreadsheet of the most notorious TPP using resellers on Crystal DC. Reports have been put in hundreds of times over the last two years and not a thing has been done about it. It's sad, but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

I have an entire spreadsheet of the most notorious TPP using resellers on Crystal DC. Reports have been put in hundreds of times over the last two years and not a thing has been done about it. It's sad, but it is what it is.

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Exactly this. You get the "if you included names..."
And "we take every measure" responses too? Feels like nobody's reading any of the reports and it honestly feels really bad.

The new rules do put a considerable dent into reselling. Relocation resales will no longer be possible since relocation won't bypass the purchase timer. Reselling will only be able to happen through transfer of FC ownership, and that will be a time consuming process blocking the reseller from getting another property while waiting for the buyer to lose their "new member" status.

It's still not going to solve your problem since it really comes down to lack of supply. There are not enough houses for every player who wants one, and even fewer of the more desirable medium and large houses.

If housing is the only reason you want to play the game, than I can understand why you'd quit. But there's far more to the game than just housing so it's a poor reason to be quitting if it means missing out on the other parts you enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The new rules do put a considerable dent into reselling. Relocation resales will no longer be possible since relocation won't bypass the purchase timer. Reselling will only be able to happen through transfer of FC ownership, and that will be a time consuming process blocking the reseller from getting another property while waiting for the buyer to lose their "new member" status.

It's still not going to solve your problem since it really comes down to lack of supply. There are not enough houses for every player who wants one, and even fewer of the more desirable medium and large houses.

If housing is the only reason you want to play the game, than I can understand why you'd quit. But there's far more to the game than just housing so it's a poor reason to be quitting if it means missing out on the other parts you enjoy.

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The issue isn't the amount of houses, thats a different, related, issue. The issue is the rare times a house does become available, it get snatched up by bots to be resold at a markup on discord and rmt sites and nobody responds to the reports or takes any action.

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Originally Posted by Remykov

The issue isn't the amount of houses, thats a different, related, issue. The issue is the rare times a house does become available, it get snatched up by bots to be resold at a markup on discord and rmt sites and nobody responds to the reports or takes any action.

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Except, if everyone in the game could have a medium or large house if they wanted, there would be no issue with bots snatching up houses to resell. If everyone could already have one, there is no resell market. So, really housing availability is 100% the problem.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The new rules do put a considerable dent into reselling. Relocation resales will no longer be possible since relocation won't bypass the purchase timer. Reselling will only be able to happen through transfer of FC ownership, and that will be a time consuming process blocking the reseller from getting another property while waiting for the buyer to lose their "new member" status.

It's still not going to solve your problem since it really comes down to lack of supply. There are not enough houses for every player who wants one, and even fewer of the more desirable medium and large houses.

If housing is the only reason you want to play the game, than I can understand why you'd quit. But there's far more to the game than just housing so it's a poor reason to be quitting if it means missing out on the other parts you enjoy.

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its not housing itself that makes me want to quit, its my hopelessness in the gms that does.

All this talk about other things being important in an MMO and I digress, this is true however, when I look for an MMO I ensure it offers all I need and I do take the printed word at face value. When I peruse FF's game description I see, HOUSING "Your own little slice of Eorzea". This is among samples of multiple other offerings that will get your attention enticing you to BUY. If you end up not being able to acquire a house period or even in a timely manner, then the game has misrepresented itsself. Especially when housing aquisition is not like savage content and takes no special skills. Housing was a carrot 6 yrs ago when I decided to buy and sub to FF. I had just come out of 2 other MMOs with good housing and really enjoy it. I managed to get a house but it took about 9 months due to lack of gil and the knowledge of how to make it back then :) Now I guess it is almost impossible, taxing on players and very frustrating. Shame on SE to mislead and neglect their playerbase. The players must apply the pressure for change.

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Originally Posted by Besame

All this talk about other things being important in an MMO and I digress, this is true however, when I look for an MMO I ensure it offers all I need and I do take the printed word at face value. When I peruse FF's game description I see, HOUSING "Your own little slice of Eorzea". This is among samples of multiple other offerings that will get your attention enticing you to BUY. If you end up not being able to acquire a house period or even in a timely manner, then the game has misrepresented itsself. Especially when housing aquisition is not like savage content and takes no special skills. Housing was a carrot 6 yrs ago when I decided to buy and sub to FF. I had just come out of 2 other MMOs with good housing and really enjoy it. I managed to get a house but it took about 9 months due to lack of gil and the knowledge of how to make it back then :) Now I guess it is almost impossible, taxing on players and very frustrating. Shame on SE to mislead and neglect their playerbase. The players must apply the pressure for change.

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Yes housing is frustrating thing, however it's not the game's main selling point and never was. It's not saying a house will be dropped in your lap when you want it, at the time you want it or that your crafters and gatherers will become level 80 instantly, or you'll be rich with mgp the moment you step into the Gold Saucer. All that you have to work for. It's like advertising a big sale on let's say toilet paper and you enter and find that it's sold out or limited. Are you going to write or go to the manager and say they are neglecting you? That that toilet paper should be on the shelf ready for you when you enter the store? No you wait until the thing becomes available with a raincheck.

I'm not saying housing is not messed up, but with all your posts in lodestone of "down with SE, crying neglect, when it comes to housing, before they've implemented a better system that isn't even released yet, I'm confused how is that neglect? I think they are trying to make housing fair under a system that is riddle with cheaters and those that want something for nothing, but I don't see you pointing finger that way. RMT is your enemy, not SE.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

Yes housing is frustrating thing, however it's not the game's main selling point and never was. It's not saying a house will be dropped in your lap when you want it, at the time you want it or that your crafters and gatherers will become level 80 instantly, or you'll be rich with mgp the moment you step into the Gold Saucer. All that you have to work for. It's like advertising a big sale on let's say toilet paper and you enter and find that it's sold out or limited. Are you going to write or go to the manager and say they are neglecting you? That that toilet paper should be on the shelf ready for you when you enter the store? No you wait until the thing becomes available with a raincheck.

I'm not saying housing is not messed up, but with all your posts in lodestone of "down with SE, crying neglect, when it comes to housing, before they've implemented a better system that isn't even released yet, I'm confused how is that neglect? I think they are trying to make housing fair under a system that is riddle with cheaters and those that want something for nothing, but I don't see you pointing finger that way. RMT is your enemy, not SE.

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Players cannot stop the cheaters, only the neglectful SE can. This has been going on for years leaving the players to suffer frustration. Your reading comprehension needs a check. I never wrote "down with SE" nor stated housing was the game's main selling point. It's one of many and a carrot used to be attractive and interesting hence your "fill in the blanks to your liking" doesn't cut it. IMO, they are not implemententing a better system, just a different texture of bandaid. We all deserve an opinion so don't try and bash me for mine.

Oh and as far as your toilet paper example which was hilarious albeit nothing to do with my post, I think out of the box and ahead so I had plenty for myself, friends and family. SE might do well to apply that to enough houses for all :)

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Originally Posted by Besame

Players cannot stop the cheaters, only the neglectful SE can. This has been going on for years leaving the players to suffer frustration. Your reading comprehension needs a check. I never wrote "down with SE" nor stated housing was the game's main selling point. It's one of many and a carrot used to be attractive and interesting hence your "fill in the blanks to your liking" doesn't cut it. IMO, they are not implemententing a better system, just a different texture of bandaid. We all deserve an opinion so don't try and bash me for mine.

Oh and as far as your toilet paper example which was hilarious albeit nothing to do with my post, I think out of the box and ahead so I had plenty for myself, friends and family. SE might do well to apply that to enough houses for all :)

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Yeah RMT and cheaters has been going on since the first MMO came over on the Mayflower, so that means not one company or developers thus far has been successful to stop it completely, but you don't get it and god forbid if SE tries to make the situation better than it's current state. At least that what I get from reading all your other posts of finger pointing. Are you trying to rally the troops (players) to bring a company down over housing? Sure sounds like it from your last post. I am shaking in my boots. So go sit in your cozy virtual home within the game (as advertised) and let the company execute what they have planned for housing first before you go spouting off betrayals. Because that's all you're contributing here so far.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

Yeah RMT and cheaters has been going on since the first MMO came over on the Mayflower, so that means not one company or developers thus far has been successful to stop it completely, but you don't get it and god forbid if SE tries to make the situation better than it's current state. At least that what I get from reading all your other posts of finger pointing. Are you trying to rally the troops (players) to bring a company down over housing? Sure sounds like it from your last post. I am shaking in my boots. So go sit in your cozy virtual home within the game (as advertised) and let the company execute what they have planned for housing first before you go spouting off betrayals. Because that's all you're contributing here so far.

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I said, "players should apply pressure" not take down SE lmao. I am done with you, be gone. hehe.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

RMT is your enemy, not SE.

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When it comes to housing, it actually is SE that is the enemy. They are the ones that control the system design and the total supply, not RMT.

If SE used a fully instanced system instead of the ward system, RMT would have no influence in housing availability. A player would tell the game "I want a LB large, here's 50 million gil I saved up" and the game would give the player a LB large. The player might still resort to RMT to get that 50 million gil (another topic) but RMT would not be able to sell the house.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

When it comes to housing, it actually is SE that is the enemy. They are the ones that control the system design and the total supply, not RMT.

If SE used a fully instanced system instead of the ward system, RMT would have no influence in housing availability. A player would tell the game "I want a LB large, here's 50 million gil I saved up" and the game would give the player a LB large. The player might still resort to RMT to get that 50 million gil (another topic) but RMT would not be able to sell the house.

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Disagree.
Players do not obey/respect the rule are the enemy.
The are the sole reason why RMT exist because they are lazy to put into effort like other players.

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Originally Posted by Besame

I said, "players should apply pressure" not take down SE lmao. I am done with you, be gone. hehe.

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Should and must implies two different things, but yeah I'm quite over you too.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

When it comes to housing, it actually is SE that is the enemy. They are the ones that control the system design and the total supply, not RMT.

If SE used a fully instanced system instead of the ward system, RMT would have no influence in housing availability. A player would tell the game "I want a LB large, here's 50 million gil I saved up" and the game would give the player a LB large. The player might still resort to RMT to get that 50 million gil (another topic) but RMT would not be able to sell the house.

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Sorry I don't find instance housing that appealing. I like walking into a neighborhood and seeing the rooftops of other houses. I've tried instance housing before, years ago. It was terrible and even guilds didn't even congregate in their own instance no longer than they had too.They always went to where players gathered. Here my FC, we are always in the yard, at the marketboards and summoning bells. We like waving at our neighbors too. Maybe that's why SE chose to do their housing in this way years ago.

Yeah RMT or cheaters wouldn't find any profit there, so they'd move onto something else in the game that they could abuse for quick gil. Like phishing, botting and more.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Disagree.
Players do not obey/respect the rule are the enemy.
The are the sole reason why RMT exist because they are lazy to put into effort like other players.

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Players are simply the catalyst. It is human nature for many people to scam, cheat, rip off, etc, playing the means to the end of what they want. SE knows this and that is why they protect most regular content from scammers. Unfortunately, they have fallen short in housing with no real viable fix in sight, viable imo, being totally instanced housing available for all that qualify.

Buy an apartment.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

Sorry I don't find instance housing that appealing. I like walking into a neighborhood and seeing the rooftops of other houses. I've tried instance housing before, years ago. It was terrible and even guilds didn't even congregate in their own instance no longer than they had too.They always went to where players gathered. Here my FC, we are always in the yard, at the marketboards and summoning bells. We like waving at our neighbors too. Maybe that's why SE chose to do their housing in this way years ago.

Yeah RMT or cheaters wouldn't find any profit there, so they'd move onto something else in the game that they could abuse for quick gil. Like phishing, botting and more.

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Sounds like you're getting lucky with the neighbors in your ward actually being around when you're at your FC house.

That hasn't been my experience in the ward with my personal house. I did a significant portion of my Expert crafting achievements while sitting in the yard of my house (probably about 200 hours of it). I saw other players maybe 3 times?

That wasn't my experience with my old FC's house despite going back and forth from the FC house to the Dappled Stalls MB or vendors fairly frequently. The FC was active enough, there would usually be at least a couple of members hanging around the house or more if we had some sort of event going on. Seeing neighbors? That was a real rarity.

It's not my experience when I go on random house tours to see what others have done with their houses. It is extremely rare for me to encounter anyone randomly in a ward.

I've encountered more players at the entrance to the apartment building where I have all the apartments for my alts as they're zoning in to go to their own instanced apartments than I have in the wards.

The wards fail as a "neighborhood" because only a limited number of players have reason to be in a specific ward. You have this massive space dedicated to 30 owners who are spread out within it. There's little reason for owners to travel within the ward - they get to teleport directly to their "front step" instead of having to walk through the ward to get there. If someone wants to get to a marketboard, it's just a few steps away because there are 7 marketboards scattered around a ward instead of having a single marketboard at a central location that would encourage foot traffic and random encounters between the few players with reason to be in the ward. That's of course assuming they're even online and in the ward at the same time. I might be at my house or apartment building daily but I spend far more time outside of housing doing other content than I spend at my housing.

SE should have designed the plots in the wards to be more like the apartment buildings. Imagine if instead of each plot representing a single owner, it represented 50 owners. You would be far more likely to see others coming and going, opening the door to random social encounters. They should have given wards just one, at most 2 marketboards so foot traffic would have to pass through the wards making them feel more alive. They should get rid of the aethernet shards so visitors have to pass through the ward to get to their destination, again promoting random social encounters.

By the way, just cruised by your FC house on my Aether alt since you're raving about what a wonderful active neighborhood it is. Totally dead. There was one person AFK at the Topmast marketboard and that was it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

By the way, just cruised by your FC house on my Aether alt since you're raving about what a wonderful active neighborhood it is. Totally dead. There was one person AFK at the Topmast marketboard and that was it.

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I suppose it would be dead late at night on a Monday. People have to work, or have family to see off to school or work. Neighborhoods isn't a party 24/7. Unless it took you hours to type your extremely long post and share it at 2:41 am. Regardless I still don't care for instance housing from my experience with it in the past. Talk about dead. No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

I suppose it would be dead late at night on a Monday. People have to work, or have family to see off to school or work. Neighborhoods isn't a party 24/7. Unless it took you hours to type your extremely long post and share it at 2:41 am. Regardless I still don't care for instance housing from my experience with it in the past. Talk about dead. No thanks.

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Yes supply is a big problem but this wards are empty argument gets old. People don't live in housing districts they work, they do other things in game. I'm personally in my house or garden daily and that is for all the houses I own on my main server and others. This constant attempt to try and justify taking peoples houses away or remove the ward system is nothing more than the have nots trying to remove things from those that do. On Crystal club events and a lot more are hosted in wards daily maybe people need to learn how to look to find tons of activity in them. Just check the party finder listings. And this isn't just on crystal.

Instant housing can be made alongside the ward system and probably the easiest solution is to drastically improve apartments with multiple sizes and layouts. I really don't understand why they haven't pursued this after having mentioned they were looking at it as a possibly back with 4.2 Shirogane, Island Sanctuary might be something to meet this demand but I'm not personally that optimistic. It is sure taking them a long time to clarify whether or not it's a form of instanced housing and given they haven't really pointed that out yet leads me to believe it won't be.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

This wards are empty argument gets old. People don't live in housing districts they work, they do other things in game. I'm personally in my house or garden daily and that is for all the houses I own on my main server and others. This constant attempt to try and justify taking peoples houses away or remove the ward system is nothing more than the have nots trying to remove things from those that do. On crystal club events and a lot more are hosted in wards daily maybe people need to learn how to look to find tons of activity in them. And this isn't just on crystal.

Instant housing can be made alongside the ward system and probably the easiest solution is to drastically improve apartments with multiple sizes and layouts. I really don't understand why they haven't pursued this after having mentioned they were looking at it as a possibly back with 4.2 Shirogane, Island Sanctuary might be something to meet this demand but I'm not personally that optimistic. They are sure taking them a long time to clarify whether or not it's a form of instanced housing and given they haven't really pointed that out yet leads me to believe it won't be.

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Oh I couldn't agree more, maybe Island Sanctuary will include a house. We'll have to wait and see. I like the neighborhood feel of the wards though.