First and foremost, I don't want this post to argue about pre-mades vs "snipers". This argument has been done a thousand times, both sides have merits, and neither side is inherently wrong. Everyone should be allowed to try the content put in game.
I'm going to make a comparison. You want to do content like DRS, E12s, or even something easier like Lv80 EXs. You read strats and watch videos, buy consumables, plan your jobs and classes, and get your party together to enter Duty Finder. Now imagine DF is similar to portals in BA. Someone else happened to que at the same time, so now you have a random person in your party who may or may not be prepared, be the proper job, etc. How well do you think that runs going to go? What if they happen to take the spot of your main tank? Your main healer? Your run is pretty much shot. And even if that person is well prepared, you're still disappointed that one of your friends is suddenly forced to not be able to raid with you, not to mention the disappointment felt by the person who is left out by no fault of themselves.
This is what BA currently is. The worst part, is that neither side is wrong. Everyone should be allowed to do the content. But the way it's set up now, is made not only to fail, but to cause rifts and a lot of anger between players. Entry into game content should not be a competition.
That being said, while BA itself isn't very difficult, it does require a bit of planning. I really don't think it's the type of content that you can just shove 50+ random people in and expect it to go well. The current system does not work.
There are two main types of group content in this game. First being: most things that you can que for in DF, and places like Castrum and Dalriada. It's made that so a random que of people should easily be able to clear it. At most they require a couple people to know what they're doing and they can direct or carry the group if need be.
The second being: content that is more difficult and requires some planning to complete, via either mechanics or consumables. Examples of this generally things like EX's, Unreals, Savage, Ultimates. You can't just que for it and have to form up a party to match mechanics.
One of the biggest issues with BA is that it is the second type of content while having the first type of entry requirements.
I'm not going to pretend like I know the perfect solution to fix BA. This is what I'd like this thread to be about: suggestions to fix BA, and again, not just arguments about "pre-made" vs "snipers".
- If BA entry is going to stay as-is, the content needs to be simplified and scaled, so that it can actually be completed by a random group of people, similar to Castrum and Dalriada in Bozja.
- If BA entry is going to stay as-is, consider adding fragments as a reward to the support fate or Ovni, so not everyone feels pressured to enter BA because they have to do it to complete their Eureka gear. (This would need to be set in such a way that it's still more beneficial to directly do BA, otherwise no one would want to go in and everyone want only want to do support).
- Take away the portal system and add BA to duty finder.
Eureka is a lot of fun and it still has a huge attraction despite being fairly old content, but it seems like a lot of players really have negative feelings toward BA in general.
Please fix Baldesion Arsenal.
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11-01-2021, 05:23 AMAluminumSirenPlease fix Baldesion Arsenal.
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11-01-2021, 05:32 AMTrekkie22
You do realise the +2 and Physeos weapons are for use only in Eureka right as they have Eureka only benefits? You absolutely do not need them to "be geared" and the Eureka bonuses are not needed for any content outside of BA.
+1 and Eureka are considered the finished stage of a relic/armor hence why when you get the "Eureka" weapon you get the corresponding achievement. You get no visual or out of Eureka strength bonuses from onwards.
There are plenty of discords/premade groups running BA regularly. Go do those. It does not need to be nerfed. It's plenty easy as is. From what I gather as long as you at least bring the basic logograms they are happy to take take you.
An example would be for a RDM like myself Wisdom of the Skirmisher/Elder and Spirit of the Remembered. Which you can buy fairly cheap if you go the Conceptual Logogram method of crafting. Albeit it's a bit more rng in the craft but cheaper.
I get people might find BA daunting to get into but as I said there are groups out there happy to take first timers and whatnot. I found it daunting myself at first then I joined the premades and it was nice. -
11-01-2021, 06:43 AMAluminumSiren
My husband and I have been doing Eureka/BA since it's release. I'm in the discords, I join pre-made runs often. 90% of the pre-made runs recently have been having issues from outside players using portals. Which again, is no one's fault, everyone should be able to do the content. This has been a problem for years. Even in Stormblood runs were ruined because of this. There are other threads with hundreds of posts talking about the issues groups have had because of this, so it's not just me.
We've had runs completely cancelled because of the bad luck of outside players managing to take portals from tanks/healers.
Please stick to topic instead of assuming my experience or possible lack thereof. -
11-01-2021, 08:24 AMCurisuIt does work like this on the JP DC.Quote:
Originally Posted by AluminumSiren
And on the EU Light DC we organize a lot BA runs via Discord to help others to get the mount and new player have priority.
BA already scales down to a minimum of 24 player (for AV 32 because 8 player join with the support fate)Quote:
Originally Posted by AluminumSiren
It even can be done with just 12 player, but that needs a lot of preperation.
Elemental gear is not needed for BA. We had Newbie runs with 40 new player and were able to clear. The most important thing for BA is preperation and the correct logos actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by AluminumSiren
The crystal reward itself is also enough to attract people in the instance to help.
I would prefer a system to use spare fragments for something else.
I and others have already 3k+
Call it nostalgia but I like the portal system. It makes the whole thing so unique and special.Quote:
Originally Posted by AluminumSiren
Also, on the light DC we rarely have problems with sniper and therefore dont see any problem with the current system.
From the view point of a BA-run organizer it is even a good thing because I can explain things, joke around and take away the tension of the nervous newbies.
I dont think BA needs a big change like that because you have whole communitys build around it who love to help others to get the mount.Quote:
Originally Posted by AluminumSiren
I again can just speak for the Light DC but I dont see many people being negative towards BA.
Yes, they have to join a discord and need to register via a google sheet.
They need to be in the voice chat to listen to the callouts.
But 99.99% of the player are understanding and thankfull about the whole experience, their new mount and the whole organization.
I love BA as it is right now and I dont see any reason to change it. -
11-01-2021, 08:43 AMAluminumSirenThat's not shoving 50+ people randomly together. It's the exact opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curisu
Where did I say elemental gear was needed for BA? (I didn't). For people that actually like to play Eureka a lot for fun, elemental gear is a huge bonus to have to help out. A small group of people with all their gear can easily prep any NM in any Eureka zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curisu
"It's not a problem for me, so it doesn't matter". Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curisu
It's a huge problem on Primal, or I wouldn't be making this. Not a one time "oh this one guy ruined my day" type problem, but a multi-month, multi YEARS ongoing issue. Even square has aknowledged it's an issue and has tried to address it before. (2019 changes to Ovni and Stabilizers).
Some of us like helping others get their mounts, too. The mount will always be from the achievement of killing Ozma. I'm not sure how changing BA entry requirements will affect that. Ideally BA would be moved to DF where a pre-made alliance is required to que, like DR Savage. People still can help others get mounts, everyone that wants to get in and signs up gets in, no fights over portal sniping.
Our FC planned a run through a BA discord, and so many portals were sniped, that most of the people that needed the mount didn't get in, and on top of that our key roles didn't get in. The run got cancelled. The next run, same thing happened again. -
11-01-2021, 09:08 AMZanarkand-Ronso
Your not asking for a Fix. For asking for a Change.
A fix means its broken, which it isn't. You just dont like the current way it works...so you want it to change.
BA doesn't need to be simplified and scaled, its a Unique experience exclusive to SB's Eureka. To do this, would take that away, it would also take away 1 more challenging bit of content, which this game lacks no lie. BA is probly the only REAL Raid in the entire game, its the only raid in the game I can think of that can take up to 2 hours and requires legit coordination. IMO this should be maintained, it is unfortunate to think that this Content will disappear over time and that there are many people who wont get to enjoy it....but thats life. Sometimes you miss out on things.
It wont happen, but MY solution instead, is to somehow make it relevant again. Like the next Relic could have some ties to SB content in some way. Just something like that.
Instead of Compromising the content, just keep it relevant in some way -
11-01-2021, 09:48 AMAluminumSiren100% I don't like the current way it works. When you have a discord of people that plan an event, where the discord is public knowledge and anyone who isn't being a jerk can join, where the event requires planning with key roles and logos, and then you constantly have 12+ portals being sniped nearly every run, how are you supposed to have fun or do the content?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso
Again, the problem isn't with BA or the content of BA itself, it's the entry requirements for it that need to change. It's not much fun planning an event and having it crashed, losing your spot, having your friends that you wanted to play with lose their spots.
I think people seem to be missing the heart and point of this post, and it's that
Duty entry should not be a competition. -
11-01-2021, 12:42 PMZanarkand-RonsoNot to be mean, but that sounds like a Problem in your area. This can easily sound like Im just saying "Well it doesn't happen to me so it never happens hurr-durr" But in my time doing and being in Eureka this literally wasn't an issue. Maybe I and my Instances were just lucky, but just going off of my experience, I dont think thats as common of an issue as you make it sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by AluminumSiren
So I can't side with you that the Entry Requirements need to Change.
Competition wasn't ever an issue.
I haven't missed anything at all, I addressed what you mentioned. I think you are confusing "Missing the Point" with "Disagreement" -
11-01-2021, 12:44 PMKageTokage
I agree it is really poorly designed when all it takes is one player who doesn't know how to handle certain mechanics to potentially wipe the entire raid, plus you have ill-prepared players deliberately trying to leech off of groups by waiting for the support team to kill the NM outside then attempting to snag one of the portals.
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11-01-2021, 12:58 PMJeeqbit
This criticism has been made since it came out. Old content usually doesn't get changed but a queue system was added for bozja and zadnor and DR was made to be queued for in DF, so it looks like this was acknowledged for future content.
A lot of the problems with eureka were that it was trying to pay homage to how MMOs like FF11 used to do things, but there is a reason they moved away from all that. -
11-01-2021, 01:32 PMFloortank
Weird to call someone trying to get a BA clear a sniper because they're not in your pre-ordained group of approved players.
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11-01-2021, 01:32 PMBellsong
It sucks, and is one of the main reasons I'm hesitant to even try BA.
But I can't see SE actually doing anything about it with BA being so baked into eureka. The support fate would need to be changed/removed. They would have to make and dedicate instances to BA like they do for DRS, not to mention the flood of people that would be upset that it's more accessible. It's probably just too much programming and back end work for them to see as worthwhile/profitable.
I hate that this is pretty much always the case with SE, but at least they learned from their first mistake and didn't give trolling a platform in Delubrum, hopefully going forward they won't slip up again.
And I'd just like to mention that it's disingenuous at best to try an claim that some people aren't sniping portals with express intent to troll or disrupt an organized run simply for the sake of it. -
11-01-2021, 01:49 PMVirusOnlineThis is the biggest issue with systems they create around relics - from the moment it's been conceived it has become an issue that will cause feature creep. Refer to Diadem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellsong
Worry not, vertigo inducing ozma shall soon be on the Moogle Tomestone Menu. (I kid, but Ozma does cause some vertigo for me which is why I have not cared for BA).
Easiest and best solution imo is to go ahead and simplify and scale BA and all of Eureka. We are entering the second expansion since Eureka was ever introduced. It is no longer current content and doing so does not disrupt the main gameplay design since Eureka is all about being side content. It is XIV's signature QA to do such and will allow many players to experience BA and get the mount. -
11-01-2021, 02:38 PMlezard21
??????????
OP is from Primal DC. Primal has not one, but TWO discords that organize multiple BA runs per day every day. In like 5 months of doing them on and off I've yet have to see:
- Main tank not getting in cause portal sniped (in fact there is no such thing as a "Main Tank" before portals, multiple Tanks go running Indomitable in the event one doesn't get the buff, DCs or another unfortunate event another tank can pick up)
- A leecher causing a wipe
- A wipe
Heck I'll even go as far as saying that in 15+ runs I've done I haven't heard about anyone sniping portals, mostly because whoever snipes a portal has a high chance of dieing and not getting Sac rezzed, and BA run hosts account for this possibility by not prefilling Support group in case someone from the main party does not make it in.
So I don't know why OP is bring this issue up like 4 years after the content patch when BA's have been running smoothly on the clock. -
11-01-2021, 05:52 PMCurisuAnd that is the same experience we have on the Light DC. (And Chaos is not much different)Quote:
Originally Posted by lezard21
2 Discords who organize runs in different ways. If you dont like A you go with B.
New player always have priority and everyone is welcome to join.
We provide explainaitions in English, French and German and can help in every language spoken in the EU.
But the Light DC community itself is nice and fair.
People wait about 3 min to pull any NM and for the special ones even longer to give people time to enter BA to join it.
I absolutly dont see a reason to change the unique experience that Eureka/ BA is offering.
Except the fragments.
Please let me exchange them for something.
Right now Eureka is more active then Bozja/ Zadnor and it is easier to find a group for BA then it is for DRS.Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusOnline
We have close to 100 BA signups for a run, every day, for over a month.
Im even able to fill a run on a weekday at 7am.
Lets see how it changes after EW, but I think it will become really active again, once the EW content is done. -
11-01-2021, 06:03 PMAluminumSirenI'm not going into specifics because A) I don't wont to give certain trolls any more attention and B) I don't want this to be yet another ba thread where everywhere argues about who is right vs pre-planned players and outside players. Both groups are doing what they're allowed to do according to SE. While some people are huge jerks about it, neither side is wrong, and IMO everyone should be able to do the content in a way that's fun, by either actually being able to do the content reliably, with their friends if they so choose, and with a group that communicates and has the ability to clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by lezard21
If you haven't seen any of these things, consider yourself extremely lucky. I've posted about a few specific instances in my other posts so I'm not going to go into that again.
[Explained poorly by my halloween addled brain. Runs are usually capped at 40 people in the main alliance raid. A full party of spots is left free so there's extra portals in case outside people come in. Despite this, we still have people out of the 40 not able to get in because so many portals are taken.]
I've seen as much as 4 support portals get taken from outside members as well. I've missed entire runs because not only was my main portal taken, but the support ones were taken as well. Also, a little refresher on time, BA was released with patch 4.55 which was in early 2019, so it's got a bit to go before it's 4 years old. And, unfortunately unlike other older content, as long as Eureka remains level capped and keeps the elemental damage system, the gear will always be relevant.
A 2 min google search will find you several OF and Reddit posts with literally hundreds of replies talking about issues in BA. So no, it's not just me, and no, ba has not been running smoothly "on the clock" every run. Some runs are fine, yes, many are not.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...senal-Feedback
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/384650
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/384027
Here is also the direct reply from SE in the initial feedback thread:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post4896293
Quote:
First of all, I’d like to apologize for the stress you’ve experienced as a result of the entry requirements for the Baldesion Arsenal. And I’d like to thank you all for observing good manners when enjoying Hydatos and the Baldesion Arsenal.
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11-01-2021, 07:13 PMAnhra
Baldesions Arsenal could easily be fixed by simply letting us queue for it either like DR or castrum in Bozja. The whole Portal idea was a dumb design from the start and the lone fact that Discord channels are REQUIRED to keep this content alive shows how bad it truly is.
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11-01-2021, 07:47 PMCurisuIt is not broken, why would it need a "fix". It works as intended on the JP DC and you have no problem to do the content on the EU server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhra
DRs also requires a Discord server to be possible, I dont see a problem in group content that needs a bit of coordination.
And lets ignore the fact that right now BA is more active then DRs.
By removing the portals you change nothing. Organization and preperation is still needed.
You would just take away the Hydatos thing and that removes the support fate. (that a lot of people like to have for the easy crystals)
It takes away the fairy buff from BA.
You will also lose a social aspect of the game, the communication with BA and the instance.
And it takes something unique away, in a game that with every Addon feels the same. -
11-01-2021, 11:44 PMAnhraIts not about the matter of it being broken or not, it is a large and unnecessary inconvenience that can easily be fixed and it would only bring advantages by inplimenting a proper way to queue for it like you can for Bozja. You can still organize your Runs with your Discord channels dedicated to it but forcing people indirectly into joining it, just because they want to do the content, only shows to me that the Dev's havent put enough thought into this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curisu
And as for the matter of uniqueness, just because something is unique, it doesn't mean that it is good or useful. -
11-02-2021, 01:00 AMDoH
BA is such easy content though that the only place I could possibly see someone causing a wipe is on the final boss if they misplace a meteor. The whole thing might as well be an alliance raid in terms of difficulty. If someone doesn't know what they're doing and they queue in, just let them die and don't raise them - you in no way need a full alliance to steamroll BA these days given how many of the players have full-elemental-bonus gear / weapons. Even DRS is a joke these days after the buffs (both in terms of new lost actions as well as the honor buffs) they gave players for Bozja-related content in connection with the release of Zadnor and can be cleared with literally 1/2 the number of intended players (granted that DRS was modified to scale based on the number of players in the instance, but even when it was fresh, we were able to clear during the first few weeks even when our duelist failed and other people died and couldn't be raised due to bad RNG leading up to Queen).
That's not to say that the queue system they have for BA isn't dumb - it is. But I'm just saying that I doubt it's randos that are "causing wipes"... It sounds like you may have a more fundamental issue at play with the rest of the people in your raid group that's resulting in non-clears. -
11-02-2021, 01:20 AMDeceptus
I just want a way to get baldesion fragments outside of the instance itself. Even if it was just a single fragment per lock box, normal or warped
I'd love the glowing armor for glamour but don't want to undertake some of the hardest content in the game to get it.
http://img.picturequotes.com/2/35/34...ul-quote-1.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Anhra
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11-02-2021, 02:02 AMDoHI can't tell if you're trolling or not... BA is no even close to "difficult" content. It has 0 personal responsibility. Just go hop in a Eureka discord and follow very straightforward callouts and you will make it through 1st try no issues. There are no mechanics in BA that require individual "thinking" like DRS or other content in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
Also, you don't even need to do BA to get the glowing armor. Doing BA just allows you to get the elemental bonus, which comes with the +2 armor; you get the glowing effect from +1 armor, which you can get simply by turning in Hydatos crystals. -
11-02-2021, 03:55 AMlezard21Again I, and the 55 other people across 15+ different runs I've done in the past months do not agree with any of what you are saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by AluminumSiren
All the "2 min google search OF and Reddit posts with literally hundreds of replies talking about issues in BA" posts you are linking are from 2019 topics. None of those problems persist now.
Main parties are not "left empty in case someone does not get portal" because you want everyone in the main party to get the Ovni buff to enter through a portal. You don't want to leave that to chance. The only party that is not left full is Support that is filled 5/8 in order to pickup anyone who either didn't get the Ovni buff (most likely) or got their portal sniped (never seen this happen). Also Support isn't filled with any key roles, you want the key roles (callouts, precept, Feint, Spirit Dart) in the main party to guarantee that they'll make it inside no matter what.
Haven't heard nor read about a group of +12 people sniping portals in BA in any of the 2 discords. If it was 1 or 2 people then it would be easy to miss across all the discord channels, but something that big wouldn't go unnoticed and the hosts of those communities would have put notices in their channels to look out for X players while doing BA runs.
Are you sure you are talking about current BA and not about your 2019 experience with BA? I think you might be mixing them both up. And even 2020 BA did not have this issues, and I did a lot more runs then.
I reccomend you joining either the PrimalForays or Primal Help Lines Discord for some more up to date BA experience. -
11-02-2021, 06:54 AMNezeriusExcept the Bozja equivalent of Baldesion Arsenal is the savage version of DR, not the normal one (although DRs has a higher difficulty than BA). DRs also requires Discord to get through reliably. DR normal is much more forgiving in the sense that mechanics are easier, and normal raise spells can be used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhra
The +1 set already adds the glow to the armor, which only requires Hydatos Crystals to obtain. The +2 set only adds Elemental Bonus, and doesn't add any visible changes to the armor or weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
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11-02-2021, 07:04 AMAluminumSirenI think you have again misunderstood. Please go search "sniper" on the main BA discord and let me know what you find. There's a few small posts, and a main post directly asking people to not talk about snipers, and doing so will result in a warning. It just involves too much drama. I'm not going to copy/paste or name the discord because it's not my place, but it is extremely easy to find. This is why you won't see discussion about snipers in the discord.Quote:
Originally Posted by lezard21
There is also another update post (made in sept) detailing how they now only bring 40 people into the main raid, (once again very easy to find post), and this is so there's extra portals in case outside people take them. This means only making 6 parties instead of 7, hence the leaving one party open. The reasons for this are detailed in the post. -
11-02-2021, 07:12 AMAluminumSirenBA is not really difficult, but any single person certainly can easily wipe many people. Outside of oopsies on trash, messing up meteors or accel bomb on Ozma can not only easily kill people, but cause them to get kicked out of the instance if they're dead and not on the platform for Black Hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoH
If enough people also don't do Black Hole right, the entire alliance will get sucked out of the raid and spat back into hydatos, effectively ending the run. -
11-02-2021, 07:22 AMAluminumSirenYou're right, snipers not the word I should be using and I'll edit my post. While there's definetely a few people that are outright jerks, with the way the content is designed, anyone is allowed to take portals, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Everyone should be able to do the content without having negative feelings, or being made to feel negative about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Floortank
The heart of this post was meant to be that (once again):
Entry into content should not be a competition, and having it be a competition pits players against each other in a negative way. -
11-02-2021, 08:04 AMDoHYes, I pointed these things out in my other post - other than on the last boss, I don't see how a single person could possible cause a wipe in BA these days. It's too faceroll-y for that to happen. I will occasionally see wipes due to someone dropping their meteor in the wrong place, but that's about it. If baddies are not standing on the buttons during black hole just let them get sucked off. As long as you have a minimum number of competent people on the buttons you'll be able to survive the mechanic and kill the boss, although it make take a little longer than usual. I have no idea how anyone could possibly cause a wipe to trash unless they're intentionally trying to create a monster train and wipe the whole thing. Even in hallways where people are always like "be careful, don't use assize, dances or other big AOEs" I've never seen an alliance come close to wiping even when someone does pull a bunch of trash. Things in BA just die so quickly, and people go in with death; as a result, anything outside of Proto-Ozma is a joke these days (unless you're trying to do it without doing the support FATE or something, i.e. "BA Savage").Quote:
Originally Posted by AluminumSiren
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11-02-2021, 08:23 AMRein_eon_OsborneAbit off topic but fyi, Aether attempted BA Savage not too long ago and they’ve succeeded bringing down AV down to 0.1%Quote:
Originally Posted by DoH
AV literally can’t die without beating support FATE. -
11-02-2021, 02:47 PMFloortankI can't help but notice that by implication, it's always the random players who join your runs that mess up the mechanics and cause your team to fail. Not the people you bring.Quote:
Originally Posted by AluminumSiren
EDIT: Any strong evidence of people being called snipers for trying to join BA which is publicly open would not meet approval by SE's standards, regardless of who runs what Discord. The labeling of someone as a means of barring them from content is expressly prohibited. -
11-02-2021, 07:37 PMCurisu
And it was extremly helpfull in my BA run today, to have the current portal system.
Simply because I had more time organize things because we had a few missing roles in a 7am run.
A few player who could not make it in time were able to join instance and be part of the main run again, while Support filled with a few randoms from the Hydatos.
The communication is also always nice to have.
And by joining the instance we show every other person who dont know about BA, that this content does exist.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...-02_092339.png -
11-02-2021, 10:45 PMMomo_Kozuki
I guess it is already too late to wish for a 24-man casual duty finder version of BA (minus the mount achievement) so that they can experience the consequence of their story choice. Feel silly that you have to "earned" the right to know the ending in a game that does everything to let casual players enjoy all story elements. Very contrasting.
This is similar to DR have normal for story progression/relic farm and savage for bragging right. I'm glad that DR Savage gates no story element, showing that SE actually learns from players' feedback about BA. -
11-04-2021, 09:10 AMTaleraRistainReminded me of WoW and Wrath of the Lich King and how you didn't see the end of the story if you didn't raid. Happened in EQ and EQII and other old school MMOs as well. WoW put in a statue so you could interact with it and see the ending cutscenes but that was a huge slap in the face to many non-raiding players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki
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11-04-2021, 11:53 AMKaliesto
I really want BA to be added to the Duty Finder, I mean it would be a long wait and all though. >.>