Am I supposed to pull wall to wall as a tank on every dungeon?

I am not complaning and genuinely asking out of curiosity. I just finished Msqs but am lost on what to do on duty roulettes. People were fine with me going 1 mob at a time but I'm guessing thats because it was my first time and I was geared just enough to run the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Minnel

I am not complaning and genuinely asking out of curiosity. I just finished Msqs but am lost on what to do on duty roulettes. People were fine with me going 1 mob at a time but I'm guessing thats because it was my first time and I was geared just enough to run the dungeon.

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Yes and No. You should not feel obligated to pull more than you are comfortable with and/or your healer can comfortably deal with.

You will notice a lot of dungeons have roadblocks set in place to prevent wall to wall pulls (for example, killing the final mob drops a key or door lever or some such), so no- the game is designed to dissuade wall-to-wall pulls, but if you can and are comfortable doing so, by all means.

I tend to grab a single pack, and see how fast the party downs it. Then maybe a bigger pack until I see somebody struggle or my HP dangerous..then I know about how much I can do. No use pulling a big pack if the DPS doesn't dodge AoE, or if the healer is not on the ball. It might be slower, but I'd rather go slower than wipe several times.

Pull wall to wall, and if on the rare occasion your healer cannot keep up slow down the pace. That's the routine.

Depends on if you have a scholar or a whitemage in your group, never trust that damn living HoT with the stupid AI (called eos) to prefer you over the DD who got hit and has lower health than you!

But yeah, you should pull bigger packs if you can handle it cause otherwise you make jobs which have aoe rotations cry and the healer often too cause you deny them to deal good damage and their mainjob cause with single pulls you can basically heal yourself.

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Originally Posted by Teno

Pull wall to wall, and if on the rare occasion your healer cannot keep up slow down the pace. That's the routine.

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This, pull big to gauge the parties performance
It doesn't matter if you wipe while doing that, but then you know it's too big and can scale the pulls down
(there's like 5 dungeons in total that get iffy if you pull everything you can and they're pretty obvious when you run them because they're the only ones where the trash mobs hurt)

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Originally Posted by Minnel

it was my first time and I was geared just enough to run the dungeon.

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Gear can be a valid reason to pull small. First timers who bought some 510 gear can pull big though. Their HP barely moves with single pulls. Enemies don't do anything most of the time and if they do, the telegraphs are very intuitive.

Depends on the dungeon. ARR dungeons usually don't have yet these walls, where this rule may be applied. But in general, pull as many as the party can handle. So give it a go in the beginning and pull 3-4 or more packs and see how the party performes.
If you die, you die, and thus can lower the number. As long as you're not dead, everything's fine.

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Originally Posted by Minnel

Am I supposed to pull wall to wall as a tank on every dungeon?.

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if its an endgame dungeon yes, if its a leveling dungeon no

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Originally Posted by Minnel

I am not complaning and genuinely asking out of curiosity. I just finished Msqs but am lost on what to do on duty roulettes. People were fine with me going 1 mob at a time but I'm guessing thats because it was my first time and I was geared just enough to run the dungeon.

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It depends. For example, when a dungeon has just been released and it's the first time going through it for everyone in the party, I usually go pack by pack so everyone can enjoy the tour. You only get to experience a dungeon for your first time once.

Outside of that scenario I ask the healer in the party if they're comfortable with larger pulls, or if they prefer smaller ones. I'm fine with either way; wall-to-wall pulls typically shave 5 minutes off the dungeon time, and if your party is melee-heavy and it's a dungeon with a lot of PBAOE being thrown around (e.g. The Burn when it was current content) then smaller pulls can actually save you time.

Don't feel pressured to go wall-to-wall in earlier leveling dungeons, when a lot of classes can't deal AOE damage and party members are often wearing gear that is very outdated for their level.

There is no absolute definitive answer to this. What you can do is to start big and readjust after... or keep going.

If the group can handle big pulls (good news: they usually are), then by all means, do it.
If the group has collection of several glaring issues that makes big pulls impossible without wipes(again, good news: this is uncommon), slow your pace.

That being said, capstone dungeons (50/60/70/80) tend to hit you like wet noodle, while leveling tend to be slightly harder. So there's that to take account into.
If you die attempting, it's not the end of the world.

I had it explained to me this way in the past:

15-50: Go at your own pace
50-60: Start pulling more but go at your comfort level still
60-70: Time to really get into pulling things
70-80: Pull wall to wall, this isn't Kindergarten anymore

The lower level the dungeon, the lower your chances of wall to wall pulls are.

One of the reasons this is a difficult question to answer is because of the legacy design choices.

Early dungeons are not designed with Wall to Wall in mind, it is absolutely possible to pull way more than you can actually handle in some of ARR dungeons, especially when leveling and not having access to all your Job/Role Actions. While you can't necessarily always wall to wall pull, you can still do "big pulls" of 2-3 packs of monsters (5-9 total enemies depending on pack sizes).

HW and beyond is when wall to wall really started to creep in to the actual dungeon design, where a majority of the time it isn't possible to pull more than 2-3 packs before hitting an actual gate/wall that prevents further progression til key enemies are defeated.

There are still outliers now where either everything, or practically everything, can be pulled between two boss encounters. However, I commonly see another terminology in reference to these, the "full pull"

Most low end content cannot be W2W due to how small the kits are for Tanks and healers and how some jobs just lack the strong aoes to take the mobs out, but 60+ can easily be W2W 80 being the easiest to do and when I say 60+ I mean 50/60/70/80 not always leveling as sometimes they may run into the same issue as the low end factor

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Originally Posted by Minnel

I am not complaning and genuinely asking out of curiosity. I just finished Msqs but am lost on what to do on duty roulettes. People were fine with me going 1 mob at a time but I'm guessing thats because it was my first time and I was geared just enough to run the dungeon.

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Should you? Should they? Interesting.

You should pull wall to wall at the very least on the lvl 70+ bracket...but no one can make you do it. You'll probably encounter an occasional party at that level bracket that might "wink wink, nudge nudge" you into doing it but if it ain't happening, two things usually occur:

-Long unseen sigh or shrugging but they roll with your playstyle

-They kick or dip


The whole debate on the wall to wall thing really just hinges on the factual ease of grabbing and keeping aggro. There's no variable on this. If you hit 3 mobs constantly with an aoe with tank stance on, they'll stick. If you hit 10 mobs constantly with an aoe, they'll stick. The only thing that decides the outcome of any pulled thing is how fast the party is killing the mobs plus how well the healer upkeeps the tank. This is where as a tank, you'll need to keep an eye on and act accordingly.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Yes and No. You should not feel obligated to pull more than you are comfortable with and/or your healer can comfortably deal with.

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You will never improve at something without leaving your comfort zone on it. If you do not try, you will not get.

Also, you will never know what people are able to deal with until you try it. I've had so many parties where it's so clear we can handle big pulls, and the tank just refuses, because he's too scared. Some of these runs are still with big pulls, but because the dps or healer pulls the second set of mobs, and then tanks the mobs in front of the tank, who in some cases is throwing a fit so they won't get aggro, yet the dps or healer survives anyways.

I cannot stress this enough, things do not hit hard enough in most dungeons. If a healer can tank 1 pull, you can tank 2.

I think we're meant to pull 2 packs at a time. That's why in recent dungeons, "wall to wall" is just 2 packs.

You're not supposed to, no. Is it preferred? For the most part, yeah. I'd say this to most new players, once you get the hang of the dungeons it should be routine to pull more. If you are iffy on it, practice a bit, and work your way up. You'll find some dungeons you actually shouldn't pull wall to wall, and others are laughably easy to do so. Some pulls may be difficult if your party is inexperienced, so in those cases it may also be best to not pull as large as possible, but you should still be able to pull more than one pack at a time. Eventually, a player should know, through practice, exactly how much other party members of varying skill levels to handle. Generally, one pack is a little light, remember AoE abilities are there for a reason and for players to properly use them, they should have multiple enemies to be used on.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

You will never improve at something without leaving your comfort zone on it. If you do not try, you will not get.

Also, you will never know what people are able to deal with until you try it. I've had so many parties where it's so clear we can handle big pulls, and the tank just refuses, because he's too scared. Some of these runs are still with big pulls, but because the dps or healer pulls the second set of mobs, and then tanks the mobs in front of the tank, who in some cases is throwing a fit so they won't get aggro, yet the dps or healer survives anyways.

I cannot stress this enough, things do not hit hard enough in most dungeons. If a healer can tank 1 pull, you can tank 2.

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I mean, your mileage may vary. Some people genuinely aren’t comfortable with it, and it’s not like it makes that big of a difference in the end. If we were talking 30 min dungeon vs an hour I’d get it, but we’re talking a savings of like, 5 minutes..maybe 10?

If my healer or tank simply isn’t comfortable with big pulls, we’re still going to clear the dungeon, which ultimately is the point.

I’d rather we all have a good time so that said tank/healer can eventually try larger packs than scare off a player or make them feel they can’t tank or heal. Need all the healers and tanks we can get to keep my dps queues down.

I guess ultimately sure, there is a need for a trial by fire to “git gud”, but a random pug dungeon ain’t it.

Typically you would pull one group in dungeons that are under level 50, two groups in anything between 50 and 60 or 60 and 70 or 70 and 80, and then however many it lets you pull in the ones that are 50, 60, 70, or 80. There's also a ton of nuance, like knowing when there are hard walls that don't disappear until you finish all the mobs or soft walls that you can either damage or defeat a key mob to take down before continuing. Or in all the leveling dungeons before 50 you can totally pull everything if you have people wearing level 80 gear because the scaling is screwed up, but if you have people in the actual gear from those levels you'll all die.

But the actual answer is to ignore all of what I just wrote and, upon entering a dungeon via the Duty Finder, open the chat and ask "how many groups do you all want me to pull?" and then just do whatever they say. It takes like one minute and you'll get the right fit for your party every time like magic!

Default to the largest pulls if possible. If the party wipes, you may have to pull less. Better to try and fail, learn why, and then iterate. The key to keeping your healer calm is cycling through your defensive cooldowns.

At the start of every pull, you want to cycle through

1. Invulnerability
2. Sentinel/Vengeance + Shelltron/Nascent Flash + Reprisal
3. Rampart + Shelltron/Nascent Flash + Arm's Length


Basically pair stronger/longer defensive CD + weaker/shorter defensive CD at the start of every pack. As long as you save a strong defensive CD (Invuln, Sentinel, Rampart equivalent) for the big pack, you will ease the healing requirement from healers.

If you play DRK, just use The Darkest Night every 15 seconds and pair it with your other strong CD's.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

if its an endgame dungeon yes, if its a leveling dungeon no

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Sort of this, near max level base game dungeons do not pull wall to wall 47-48 for example is the most akward level because you miss a ton of utility and gear but the mobs hit at you like you are 50.

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Originally Posted by Minnel

I am not complaning and genuinely asking out of curiosity. I just finished Msqs but am lost on what to do on duty roulettes. People were fine with me going 1 mob at a time but I'm guessing thats because it was my first time and I was geared just enough to run the dungeon.

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Pull as you team can manage. No point pulling wall to wall but the heal could not keep up, neither pulling too small wasting extra dps
I would say leveling dungeon pull 2 pack to gauge the ability of the team, endgame dungeon can go little bit more bold as the ilevel syn are much more generious

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Originally Posted by Minnel

I am not complaning and genuinely asking out of curiosity. I just finished Msqs but am lost on what to do on duty roulettes. People were fine with me going 1 mob at a time but I'm guessing thats because it was my first time and I was geared just enough to run the dungeon.

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You can safely pull wall-to-wall in level 60, 70 and 80 dungeons.

Level 50 dungeons have no walls so it's possible to pull more than your party can handle. You need a really good party to be certain it goes well, so it's best not to bother. You can safely pull 33% of the way in a level 50 dungeon and 50% if you are confident with your tanking and mitigation.

Level 1-49, 51-59, 61-69, 71-79 and soon 81-89 are different. These dungeons sync your gear to almost the item level the enemies were scaled, making the incoming damage extremely high. Just 3 enemies can destroy you and require heavy mitigation and the auto-attacks of a boss alone can even kill you if you are not careful. I do not recommend big pulls in these dungeons unless you feel extremely confident in your tanking and understand how to use mitigation and other tools to save yourself and reduce the burden on the healer.

As a Tank, I usually test the healer.
I usually make polls until the healer has issues keeping the rest of the party and me alive.
So how do I judge this? Well, if my HP drops around 50% and stays there, I stop pulling.
Of course, if someone asks me to go slow, I will do that.
So listen to the rest of the group and make a judgment.
So in the end compromise is the name of the game

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Originally Posted by Minnel

I am not complaning and genuinely asking out of curiosity. I just finished Msqs but am lost on what to do on duty roulettes. People were fine with me going 1 mob at a time but I'm guessing thats because it was my first time and I was geared just enough to run the dungeon.

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Make sure healer can handle it and that you can handle it. Ask healer at the beginning of the dungeon and they will let you know right away if they can or cannot do it.

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

Make sure healer can handle it and that you can handle it. Ask healer at the beginning of the dungeon and they will let you know right away if they can or cannot do it.

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Good DPS can burn down large pulls quite quickly, many times even if the healer doesn't think they can handle it. Speaking on that, a lot of healers think they can't handle it, when they can handle it in general. It's a party of 4.

Endgame Dungeons: Yes

Leveling Dungeons: Double pulls unless you are absolutely confident in your tank and healer.

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Originally Posted by Minnel

I am not complaning and genuinely asking out of curiosity. I just finished Msqs but am lost on what to do on duty roulettes. People were fine with me going 1 mob at a time but I'm guessing thats because it was my first time and I was geared just enough to run the dungeon.

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It all depends on your comfort and gear levels, there are a few dungeons that are rougher to mass pull on (Bardam's Mettle) during the leveling process, but typically you can handle a few pulls as long as you cycle through your cooldowns and keep your gear up to date.

It's impossible to pull wall-to-wall in some ARR dungeons like Stone Vigil or Dzemael Darkhold. However, once you reach Heavensward you can start pulling wall-to-wall since dungeons have natural walls in between mobs. It also depends on the DPS and Healer. I've had extremely slow DPS parties in the past where the healer would run out of MP trying to keep me alive. On the flip side, some healers don't do enough healing (especially in ARR), and as a tank you don't have an invuln skill for ARR dungeons which makes it way more risky to pull big.