Future Summoner Summonings

Diamond Shiva

Unkindled Diamond Shiva - Diamond Dust - upon using all targets gai slow raising heavy that increases 20% until there frozen solid. "snap" all monsters take 550 potency removes status of heavy is removed

Ruin (Transforms) Heavenly Strike - drops a ice-comet on the targets head has 6 yalm radius dealing 260-300 potency with demising returns placing frost bitten status effect

Ruin II (Transform Icestorm) rains x5 ice shards on battle-field each dealing 65-70 potency in wide area. adding frost bitten status effect.

Frost Bitten - status effect is slow and heavy increases in power depending on amount of stacks place. adds damage over time effect that is impowered by aftershock. dot deals more damage based on amount of stacks it lasts up 1 min

Amethyst Ramah - Enkindled Amethyst Ramah -Judgement Bolt Deals 500 potency within 30 seconds. while placing all targets status effect paralyzes

Rolling Thunder - Connects whole raid to the boss. every time they deal damage they deal bonus lightening damage and apply aftershock for 10 seconds if 12 stacks are added to target they suffer "terror status effect" slowly make target or targets run away from party stop attacking but very slow pace.

Thunderspark - consumes all aftershocks on the target surrounds the with lightening circle. slowly brings it while this is doing so they take damage over time until drawn in

Thunderstorm - consumes thunderspark for big big lightening bolt deals big big damage around 800 potency

Aquamarine Leviathan - Water Element abilties

Based off of what we know from PLL if we were to get the next 3 they would be:

Diamond Shiva/Amethyst Ramuh/Sapphire(?) Leviathan

They would all use their signature attack on summon for a flat high potency damage attack.

Their continuation abilities could be:
Shiva-Glacier Bash: Forms ice to crush enemy (like Titan's Mountain Buster)

Ramuh: Chaotic Strike: 2 part attack: 1) Send a lightning bolt towards a target followed by 2) a strong thunderstrike at targets position (Like Ifrit's Crimson Cyclone but without the gap close, or could include in part 1)

Leviathan: Aqua Breath: Form a puddle of raging water below the target, anyone in it takes damage over time. (Like Garuda's Slipstream)

Gem Shine/Brilliance will act same as they do normally, aspecting to recently used pseudo-primal's element.

I wonder if they will add a settings to play the primal music atleast client wise when u call them and during ur ability time ur giving

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Originally Posted by MercuryD

Based off of what we know from PLL if we were to get the next 3 they would be:

Diamond Shiva/Amethyst Ramuh/Sapphire(?) Leviathan

They would all use their signature attack on summon for a flat high potency damage attack.

Their continuation abilities could be:
Shiva-Glacier Bash: Forms ice to crush enemy (like Titan's Mountain Buster)

Ramuh: Chaotic Strike: 2 part attack: 1) Send a lightning bolt towards a target followed by 2) a strong thunderstrike at targets position (Like Ifrit's Crimson Cyclone but without the gap close, or could include in part 1)

Leviathan: Aqua Breath: Form a puddle of raging water below the target, anyone in it takes damage over time. (Like Garuda's Slipstream)

Gem Shine/Brilliance will act same as they do normally, aspecting to recently used pseudo-primal's element.

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I really suspect they didn't add the gems Diamond, Amethyst and Sapphire yet because they need something new for the job in 7.0.

I think a trait could shift the 3 default gemstones to those after Demi Phoenix.

Summoner is shaping up to be the absolute most cluttered and busy job in future expansions and I'm all here for it.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

Summoner is shaping up to be the absolute most cluttered and busy job in future expansions and I'm all here for it.

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Clustered? Yes
Busy? No

I honestly think it won't be very busy at all. The complete opposite of current SMN

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I really suspect they didn't add the gems Diamond, Amethyst and Sapphire yet because they need something new for the job in 7.0.

I think a trait could shift the 3 default gemstones to those after Demi Phoenix.

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My idea is have Bahamut be umbral attuned and Phoenix astral attuned. Representing the eras they brought in

Or have it worked like umbral light (phoenix) and astral dark (bahamut) as suggested in 5.0 msq

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

My idea is have Bahamut be umbral attuned and Phoenix astral attuned. Representing the eras they brought in

Or have it worked like umbral light (phoenix) and astral dark (bahamut) as suggested in 5.0 msq

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Ah, that's an interesting idea for a background!

Sadly we don't have job quests anymore to back that up... in fact, I wonder how all of the job changes are going to be reflected in the pre-ShB job quests.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Ah, that's an interesting idea for a background!

Sadly we don't have job quests anymore to back that up... in fact, I wonder how all of the job changes are going to be reflected in the pre-ShB job quests.

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Assuming we get some level of gem-summons in the form of egi then there won't actually need to be much more than a change in wording in quest dialogue.

I actually wish they would just make leviathan, shiva, and Ramuh glamour spells.

7.0 is 2 years away.

The bigger problem is that if they add them as phoenix spells we’re running back into that really long summoner rotation that severely punishes death.

That is unless one of them is a glamour for ifrit, titan and Garuda respectively.

Yeah...one of the most disappointing changes in 5.0 was the move to role quests

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Originally Posted by Sequora

I actually wish they would just make leviathan, shiva, and Ramuh glamour spells.

7.0 is 2 years away.

The bigger problem is that if they add them as phoenix spells we’re running back into that really long summoner rotation that severely punishes death.

That is unless one of them is a glamour for ifrit, titan and Garuda respectively.

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I know nobody likes homogenization but as long as all the non-demis do effectively the same damage as a set and the demis do roughly the same damage then death should be much less punishing. Honestly, I'm going EW relieves the death punishment a bit as is

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Originally Posted by MercuryD

I know nobody likes homogenization but as long as all the non-demis do effectively the same damage as a set and the demis do roughly the same damage then death should be much less punishing. Honestly, I'm going EW relieves the death punishment a bit as is

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That was what I had in mind as well...

Let's say with imaginary numbers - Trance+Bahamut+3 gems = 100 dps / Trance+Phoenix+3 new gems = 120 dps;

If the power difference between the 2 stages is not abysmally huge, then yes it still punishes death and rewards good SMNs, but not in a way that completely breaks the job's DPS.

Thinking of it not as just a long rotation, but 2 different rotations that do similar damage.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

That was what I had in mind as well...

Let's say with imaginary numbers - Trance+Bahamut+3 gems = 100 dps / Trance+Phoenix+3 new gems = 120 dps;

If the power difference between the 2 stages is not abysmally huge, then yes it still punishes death and rewards good SMNs, but not in a way that completely breaks the job's DPS.

Thinking of it not as just a long rotation, but 2 different rotations that do similar damage.

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Exactly my idea. 2 mini rotations in 1 longer rotation. As we know from the PLL Bahamut looks to be more DPS than Phoenix because of deathflare but that's one skill out of the whole mini-rotation

I think tbh, they could probabl skip adding more gems to smn completley and instead do a Glamour system around reskinning the skills / evoked primal.

I eally can't see them adding more summons in 7.0 because it would effectively be adding the same thing 2 expansion in a row. They could however add a rotational finisher in the form of a differnt type of summon or they could add another demi / upgrade the two we have.

There is no reason every summoner couldnt call forth some form of light warden afterall, as an example.

Either way, it will be interesting to see how they deal with additional summons and button bloat.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

Summoner is shaping up to be the absolute most cluttered and busy job in future expansions and I'm all here for it.

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The heck? I know details are still sparse but did I accidentally stumble on the land of make believe? This is almost the opposite of what 6.0 SMN is. It now has the least amount skills of all jobs (17 I think not including roles) and unless the summons contain a ton of nuisance which I doubt as LL mentioned “you can freely use either summon” the jobs is not clustered, which isn’t even a good thing and it’s far from busy. The delusion is real

(Whoops, ill delete previous post when get home, can't on mobile) Anyway, think rather than adding more gems for summons, its far more likely any new summon could replace current ones as a kinda skill upgrade like they normally do, and I totally would mind that, the ol 3 are getting well... old... Curious what could replace bahamut or pheonix?

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Originally Posted by Sequora

I actually wish they would just make leviathan, shiva, and Ramuh glamour spells.

7.0 is 2 years away.

The bigger problem is that if they add them as phoenix spells we’re running back into that really long summoner rotation that severely punishes death.

That is unless one of them is a glamour for ifrit, titan and Garuda respectively.

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This. I just want the other 3 summons. Please SE.

Maybe they could make it, after the Bahamut phase you use the initial 3, and then after Phoenix you use the other 3. Mechanically they'd be the same, but visually they'd be different. Ifrit/Shiva, Garuda/Ramuh, Titan/Leviathan.

Shiva and Leviathan are two of my favorite final fantasy summons. I’ve never been a huge fan of titan.

I would love the ability to swap the ones we’re getting.

I think leviathan could be a good glamour for Garuda, as you could leave a dropsy puddle.

Shiva could replace Ifrit, as she does have melee abilities.

Ramuh could replace titan.

That being said, I am just thankful that we are finally fulfilling my power fantasy and are losing our poison spells. It’s literally what I’ve been asking for since 2.0

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Originally Posted by Sequora

Shiva and Leviathan are two of my favorite final fantasy summons. I’ve never been a huge fan of titan.

I would love the ability to swap the ones we’re getting.

I think leviathan could be a good glamour for Garuda, as you could leave a dropsy puddle.

Shiva could replace Ifrit, as she does have melee abilities.

Ramuh could replace titan.

That being said, I am just thankful that we are finally fulfilling my power fantasy and are losing our poison spells. It’s literally what I’ve been asking for since 2.0

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See I was thinking the speed aspect for the Wind into Lightning swap, but a dropsy puddle makes more sense for that.

I personally never minded SMN, though I can see why others felt it was meh. My biggest gripe were people complaining about other things that shall not be mentioned, lol. But I do hope this new direction leads to something more. My only concern was, if you were remaking the job anyways, why not incorporate more of the other Summons?

I hold out hope for them to provide the option to Glamour summons, much as they did with the Carbuncles/Egis. Even if they don't do so for every Primal in the game, having the option at least for the rest of the ARR 6 would be exquisite.

I doubt the devs want to make 6 versions of every spell, so even in the event they did provide glamouring, each would probably be a 1:1 replacement of an existing summon with different visual effects.

Of course, who glamours over which would be the real question -- Leviathan could fit Ifrit's leap attack but Shiva's sword works best for the following melee, and under the "caster/support/melee" pet rules you could have cleanly argued Ramuh glamouring over Garuda, but with Titan's role completely changing, one could now argue Ramuh's burst damage would fit in his slot better than Garuda's GT DoT...

Slightly offtopic but in the light of having more summons, let it be glamour or new actions, I would LOVE if we got one of the mass-size summons as the LB3, like Alexander or Mateus.

Before that, a small change I would make is re emphasize a bit the pet in gems phase, keep aspected summoner GCDs but have the charges be oGCD egi assaults, to still feel like you use them That said.

I hope we have all 6 base summons (so adding Ramuh, Levia, Shiva). Optionnaly, replace Phoenix with Alexander (cooler I think). And get a big "level 3" Astral / Umbral summon at level 100 : Zodiark / Hydaelyn Aspected

That would work on a 1 minute cycle rythmed by trance like now, like that :

- Summon Bahamut / Summon Alexander, for 15 seconds ; gives 3 gems of Astral or Umbral
- the gems allow you to summon the egis for ten seconds (so 4 GCDs max), 4 stacks of egi assaults and have the big version come and do the attack at the end, not the beginning
- each gem used gives an umbral or astral aether (regroup the 3 astral and 3 umbral together) to use the lvl 3 summon that only does one giga attack : Hydaelin aspected (the sundering) or Zodiark aspected (the sacrifice ?)

Or

- have aetherflow grants you the three gems, which in turn give you access to trance, which gives you the astral/umbral aether to the level 3.


I get they did the first order because of raid buff alignment and have demis during trick, but why not.

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Originally Posted by Karshan

Before that, a small change I would make is re emphasize a bit the pet in gems phase, keep aspected summoner GCDs but have the charges be oGCD egi assaults, to still feel like you use them That said.

I hope we have all 6 base summons (so adding Ramuh, Levia, Shiva). Optionnaly, replace Phoenix with Alexander (cooler I think). And get a big "level 3" Astral / Umbral summon at level 100 : Zodiark / Hydaelyn Aspected

That would work on a 1 minute cycle rythmed by trance like now, like that :

- Summon Bahamut / Summon Alexander, for 15 seconds ; gives 3 gems of Astral or Umbral
- the gems allow you to summon the egis for ten seconds (so 4 GCDs max), 4 stacks of egi assaults and have the big version come and do the attack at the end, not the beginning
- each gem used gives an umbral or astral aether (regroup the 3 astral and 3 umbral together) to use the lvl 3 summon that only does one giga attack : Hydaelin aspected (the sundering) or Zodiark aspected (the sacrifice ?)

Or

- have aetherflow grants you the three gems, which in turn give you access to trance, which gives you the astral/umbral aether to the level 3.


I get they did the first order because of raid buff alignment and have demis during trick, but why not.

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I think that’s a tall order. I don’t think we’ll even get the other 3 primals (leviathan, shiva, and Ramuh).

There’s nothing wrong with phoenix.

They could incorporate Alexander and other summons in other ways. Like maybe have them be normal abilities.

Carbuncle gives us our defense shield, maybe it gets an upgrade in 7.0 and Alexander uses “perfect defense” or something.

That being said, I would really like to see all 6 base summons as part of our kit. We’re many expansions in at this point. I feel like endwalker is making up for past mistakes with SMN.

It would be ideal to find a way to integrate Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva into the main kit rather than as glamours as the first six are thematically linked, but as others have said, it becomes very difficult to imagine how to do that without returning the summoner to punishing DPS. One way that I see it being done could be with making them OGCD phases that are worked in simultaneously with your GCD phases.

How it works would be Opal Shiva, Aquamarine Leviathan, and Amethyst Ramuh would replace Energy Drain/Syphon and then upgrade and change your Fester and Painflare. It's simple, yet I think it could work given the direction Summoner is now going in. I also think there's a lot of build-ability for the future after that too. Imagine an Aetherflow finisher that summons something else based on whether you summoned Shiva, Leviathan, or Ramuh, and during which phase you were in for Ifirt, Titan, or Garuda.

Ifrit + Ramuh = Ravana finisher
Titan + Shiva = Thordan finisher
Garuda + Leviathan = Bismarck finisher

It's all very long term concepts, but I think there is room to grow, and I believe that was intentional.

I see the addition of more primals as a fairly simple way for them to add skills/abilities to the job as we go through expansions. Instead of just giving you 3 primals to summon at any time they could make it so that you have 4 (or more) primals but have to select which three to use in which order based on the fight. Maybe Ramuh will be a DoT based summon so you may want to call him in a multi target fight instead of Ifrit with it's gap closer and melee attack. You'd still only be able to use 3 primals in your rotation/cycle between Bahamut and Phoenix but the choice on which 3 to use would be up to you.

Absolutely no dot summons, please.

Whether they are added as abilities/demis/glamours, I do hope we eventually see Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva in some way. At this point I do not care for the lore of "how special Shiva is to summon!" Just add her. Period.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

It would be ideal to find a way to integrate Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva into the main kit rather than as glamours as the first six are thematically linked, but as others have said, it becomes very difficult to imagine how to do that without returning the summoner to punishing DPS. One way that I see it being done could be with making them OGCD phases that are worked in simultaneously with your GCD phases.

How it works would be Opal Shiva, Aquamarine Leviathan, and Amethyst Ramuh would replace Energy Drain/Syphon and then upgrade and change your Fester and Painflare. It's simple, yet I think it could work given the direction Summoner is now going in. I also think there's a lot of build-ability for the future after that too. Imagine an Aetherflow finisher that summons something else based on whether you summoned Shiva, Leviathan, or Ramuh, and during which phase you were in for Ifirt, Titan, or Garuda.

Ifrit + Ramuh = Ravana finisher
Titan + Shiva = Thordan finisher
Garuda + Leviathan = Bismarck finisher

It's all very long term concepts, but I think there is room to grow, and I believe that was intentional.

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Just sayin' but Shiva should be Diamond :P

Now yeah... actually six gemstones would perfectly represent the Elemental Wheel! with Astral or Umbral polarities. Though, I could see the combinations matched to have a Light/Dark/Unaspected finishing summons... I.E. Astral + Astral = Light / Umbral + Umbral = Dark / Astral + Umbral = Unaspected.

I really like this concept of matching gemstones for a finisher... Can't wait to see the SMN gameplay to actually gauge where the system would go in 7.0.

I would rather us gain new spells within our primal stances. Not saying the above ideas are clunky, but everything should meld together.

What about if in 7.0 our Garuda, ifrit, and titan phases has an extra spell.

Obviously if they were adding glamours at this point, maybe we see additional glamour primals.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

The heck? I know details are still sparse but did I accidentally stumble on the land of make believe? This is almost the opposite of what 6.0 SMN is. It now has the least amount skills of all jobs (17 I think not including roles) and unless the summons contain a ton of nuisance which I doubt as LL mentioned “you can freely use either summon” the jobs is not clustered, which isn’t even a good thing and it’s far from busy. The delusion is real

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I said future expansions for a reason.

As more is added to the job, there will either be a lot to keep track of as your skills keep changing at different parts of the rotation, or they'll all just be reskins of the same basic skills and there won't be much of a difference. If it's the former, the job will likely end up being pretty busy by virtue of how much you need to keep in mind.

Wasn't aware of the 17 skills part though.

Although we have lost job quests, I'm kinda intrigued by the lore explanation being level 90 SMN in a way. I remember it being impossible for us to summon Ramuh because I don't know, so we transitioned towards trances which are more efficient. Are the new Garuda and co trances ? If so, then there is no lore preventing us to virtually summon any primal (we just have to have met them and felt their aether, right?)

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Just sayin' but Shiva should be Diamond :P

Now yeah... actually six gemstones would perfectly represent the Elemental Wheel! with Astral or Umbral polarities. Though, I could see the combinations matched to have a Light/Dark/Unaspected finishing summons... I.E. Astral + Astral = Light / Umbral + Umbral = Dark / Astral + Umbral = Unaspected.

I really like this concept of matching gemstones for a finisher... Can't wait to see the SMN gameplay to actually gauge where the system would go in 7.0.

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Actually, the reason why I say Opal is because that's how it was in FFIX, though thinking about it more critically, the existing summons don't necessarily match that theming.

In FFIX, where abilities both active and passive were learned by wearing equipment, gems could be equipped as accessories and would teach summons to Garnet and Eiko. These were how the gems were laid out:

Princess Garnet's Summons
Opal: Shiva
Peridot: Ramuh
Topaz: Ifrit
Amethyst: Atomos
Dark Matter: Odin
Aquamarine: Leviathan
Garnet: Bahamut
Pumice: Ark

Eiko's Summons
Ruby: Carbuncle
Lapis Lazuli: Fenrir (And Titan)
Phoenix Pinion: Phoenix
Ribbon: Madeen (aka Maduin)

Emerald, Pearl, and Diamond had no summon associated with them but would change which buff Carbuncle gave to the party.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

It would be ideal to find a way to integrate Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva into the main kit rather than as glamours as the first six are thematically linked, but as others have said, it becomes very difficult to imagine how to do that without returning the summoner to punishing DPS. One way that I see it being done could be with making them OGCD phases that are worked in simultaneously with your GCD phases.

How it works would be Opal Shiva, Aquamarine Leviathan, and Amethyst Ramuh would replace Energy Drain/Syphon and then upgrade and change your Fester and Painflare. It's simple, yet I think it could work given the direction Summoner is now going in. I also think there's a lot of build-ability for the future after that too. Imagine an Aetherflow finisher that summons something else based on whether you summoned Shiva, Leviathan, or Ramuh, and during which phase you were in for Ifirt, Titan, or Garuda.

Ifrit + Ramuh = Ravana finisher
Titan + Shiva = Thordan finisher
Garuda + Leviathan = Bismarck finisher

It's all very long term concepts, but I think there is room to grow, and I believe that was intentional.

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I think combination attacks of elements can be built in the warring triad if you think about it:

Sephirot is Earth + Water
Sophia is Lightning + Wind
Zurvan is Fire + Ice

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The only thing I hope to see is Summoner losing their "base" animations through summoning styled animations later on (if BLU can get those animations why can't SMN ;))