Serious health concerns: motion sickness and vertigo in latest raids.

I have returned to the game relatively recently and have begun catching up in the latest content. The nier raids, eden etc. In doing this i have encountered one very alarming thing: a sudden dramatic increase in environmental movement and excessive use of special effects. I never really experienced this in older content, so something in the latest stuff has crossed a line.

Excessive movement in the sky boxes, random environmental movement in objects like factory fans, excessively large bosses with lots of moving parts. These are incredibly disorienting, especially to those of us more susceptible to motion sickness. This makes these encounters not only unfun, but a health risk. It may even induce vomiting in some people or cause them to lose their balance when rising from their seats.

Adding something to accessibility options to freeze skybox and environmental animations would go a long way into lessening things like this. And i would encourage the devs to take a second look at the animations of large bosses to lessen any possible effect it may have on those of us with motion sickness.

I expect this to end well. I support more accessibility options so +1.

As I am sure you are aware there are many things that a person prone to motion sickness can do to minimise the effects. However asking games designers to code in two versions of content so that one is less intense in terms of movement on screen is not really achievable unless additional time and money is spent on the development. It may just be that for the goodness of your health you should avoid that content or adjust your graphics settings, distance from screen, time in front of screen etc.

Hello,

I sympathize with your desire to have certain things changed to make it easier for people with certain health issues to handle. I recently discovered that the FATE "Leap of Faith" caused my fear of heights/falling to go into overdrive. I had a minor panic attack for fear of falling in a video game...a freaking video game, of all things. Unfortunately, as much as I'd love to have the MGP it rewards, I've had to stop doing it. Sadly, given that people like you and I are in the great minority of players, we have to accept that there will be certain things we won't be able to participate in as it's not practical to ask the development team to change things for the few.

I must admit Illmaeran, that I am always impressed with your ability to add nothing of worth at all - whilst somehow penning an essay. It's almost a talent.

Vaell, having a feature that makes things easier for your issue client side seems like a practical solution. That way it both helps alleviate your issue, whilst being respectful of those who feel differently about it's function/display. Seems like a compromise for both parties and something that shouldn't in theory be difficult to apply. General local settings do take development time but visual filters aren't anything thats overly technically demanding. This is likely the wrong place for suggestions though (the forums here are, perhaps often justifiably, ignored). Try reddit with tags.

Trying to limit motion sickness can hamper the creativity of the devs. In WoW there were several amazing boss fights that caused some people to say they got motion sick but wouldn't have been nearly as awesome had they not done those fights that way (the conveyor belt fight in Blackrock foundry, Operator Thogar where you fight in the middle of train tracks dodging trains coming left and right, that fight ontop of a moving train in WoD, that fight ontop of a ship caught in a humongous storm in Legion). After the ship dungeon, they said they wouldn't do anything that would give people motion sickness and then we never got awesome fights like those again.

The content that causes it isn't the same for everyone. For a lot of people I think the only content that caused it was the nier raids.

I am sure that settings for particle effects can be added but this could cause you to have an advantage if it's part of a mechanic such as fog. The normal animations of enemies could be frozen but real movement (not just animated movement) would probably be difficult and would make some mechanics impossible to work out.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The content that causes it isn't the same for everyone. For a lot of people I think the only content that caused it was the nier raids.

I am sure that settings for particle effects can be added but this could cause you to have an advantage if it's part of a mechanic such as fog. The normal animations of enemies could be frozen but real movement (not just animated movement) would probably be difficult and would make some mechanics impossible to work out.

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I'm not talking about mechanics. Think eden eternity, but all the random floating runes on the skybox and the random spinny circles on the player platform not moving. It would have no effect whatsoever on mechanical difficulty but would help a great deal with letting us look at it without being disorienting.

There are no settings for it? From what I vaguely remember in WoW they would keep it in mind and either tweak the effects or make sure settings would help with it, I always felt they were pretty good with it there. It’d be surprising to me if it’s not something that is considered seriously here. I do understand what you mean, I’ve regularly experienced it in games too and if there was no way around it, I’d avoid the content but sometimes that just really sucks as a solution. Still better than being nauseous and dizzy for hours after tho hehe.

Options to shut off more of the glow effects and such would go a long way to help me, tbh. Nier didn't give me any issues, but E6 (Furor) made me feel more sick than any other game I've ever played purely because of the wild spinning of the room in the final phase. I had to angle my camera straight down and zoom in on the ground to even get through the fight. Bright obnoxious colors + really fast spinny movements = bad time for me lmao. It's one fight I'm sure I'll never clear on savage thanks to that. Not without getting carried anyway :P

Idk how much that kind of setting would help in raids like Nier, but I mean. I'm not opposed to more/different accessibility options.

Not ever gonna happen. There was a rather large thread when the latest Nier raid came out and look at all the changes it has caused the devs to make.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...adigm-s-Breach

Cannot be serious...

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Originally Posted by Mindiori

I must admit Illmaeran, that I am always impressed with your ability to add nothing of worth at all - whilst somehow penning an essay. It's almost a talent.

Vaell, having a feature that makes things easier for your issue client side seems like a practical solution. That way it both helps alleviate your issue, whilst being respectful of those who feel differently about it's function/display. Seems like a compromise for both parties and something that shouldn't in theory be difficult to apply. General local settings do take development time but visual filters aren't anything thats overly technically demanding. This is likely the wrong place for suggestions though (the forums here are, perhaps often justifiably, ignored). Try reddit with tags.

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You come across as bitter in all of your posts. Who hurt you?

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Cannot be serious...

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Whoops, wrong forum thread.

I read this thread, and I couldn't help but thinking please, please allow us the option to to disable LB3 effects. I'm way past finding multiple simultaneous RM LB3s funny when I'm trying to dodge a mechanic by now.

OP may not know that the Nier raids were actually tweaked because they caused issues with a number of people, as someone who gets migraines I didn't even try them until that adjustment was made.

It's worth asking - they already put one major motion sickness filter in the game - the refraction that shows when you're swimming underwater.
(And they were right; without turning it off, it's puke-city for me.)

Until then, about all you can do is zoom the camera out, focus your eyes on your character or hotbar, and look away entirely during the really nasty things, like that one slide down the curved ramp in puppet's bunker.

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Originally Posted by Vaell

I have returned to the game relatively recently and have begun catching up in the latest content. The nier raids, eden etc. In doing this i have encountered one very alarming thing: a sudden dramatic increase in environmental movement and excessive use of special effects. I never really experienced this in older content, so something in the latest stuff has crossed a line.

Excessive movement in the sky boxes, random environmental movement in objects like factory fans, excessively large bosses with lots of moving parts. These are incredibly disorienting, especially to those of us more susceptible to motion sickness. This makes these encounters not only unfun, but a health risk. It may even induce vomiting in some people or cause them to lose their balance when rising from their seats.

Adding something to accessibility options to freeze skybox and environmental animations would go a long way into lessening things like this. And i would encourage the devs to take a second look at the animations of large bosses to lessen any possible effect it may have on those of us with motion sickness.

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I think at most all any game developer owes anyone is a user warning for issues like this.

I think it would not be a bad idea for the devs to allow certain highly disorienting features to be turned off client-side. If that is even possible, idk, it sounds like a large ask. But this is straying past accessibility criticism into flirting with the dampening and censorship of artistic expression. Those effects serve an artistic purpose and are *intended* to be disorienting to some extent. It is *supposed* to manufacture and/or imitate thrilling sensations.

Also, motion sickness isn't a major accessibility or health issue. Motion sickness to some degree is a biological reality for many if not most people, and many of us either find ways to tolerate it or avoid it. If getting on a roller coaster makes you puke, don't ride the roller coaster. If watching slasher horror makes you puke, don't watch slasher horror. I don't do either of these things because I have vertigo and poor tolerance for fast acceleration, and am squeamish about body horror. If playing a game that emphasizes exciting spectacle makes you puke, don't play the game. It's not for you.

I thought the sage icon nonsense was dumb enough...but the hyperbole is getting ridiculous. "Serious" health issue? How is it that people are so delicate that now a mere phobia presents an accessibility/sensitivity issue? Lalas creep me out and make me feel nauseous. Where's my lala removal Square?

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Originally Posted by Vaell

I have returned to the game relatively recently and have begun catching up in the latest content. The nier raids, eden etc. In doing this i have encountered one very alarming thing: a sudden dramatic increase in environmental movement and excessive use of special effects. I never really experienced this in older content, so something in the latest stuff has crossed a line.

Excessive movement in the sky boxes, random environmental movement in objects like factory fans, excessively large bosses with lots of moving parts. These are incredibly disorienting, especially to those of us more susceptible to motion sickness. This makes these encounters not only unfun, but a health risk. It may even induce vomiting in some people or cause them to lose their balance when rising from their seats.

Adding something to accessibility options to freeze skybox and environmental animations would go a long way into lessening things like this. And i would encourage the devs to take a second look at the animations of large bosses to lessen any possible effect it may have on those of us with motion sickness.

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I absolutely feel you there. I was farming Byakko for the dog and the falling section had me getting motion sick to the point where the raid leader said to just keep my eyes closed and they'll tell me when that part is over and they'll rez me after. But I'm not sure if there's anything that could be done to help in that particular fight.

I'd be concerned that being able to turn certain things off would result in everyone turning them off to make the fight easier.

I just don't do things that make me ill. I'm missing out on content, but eh.

welcome to my head

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Originally Posted by Vaell

I have returned to the game relatively recently and have begun catching up in the latest content. The nier raids, eden etc. In doing this i have encountered one very alarming thing: a sudden dramatic increase in environmental movement and excessive use of special effects. I never really experienced this in older content, so something in the latest stuff has crossed a line.

Excessive movement in the sky boxes, random environmental movement in objects like factory fans, excessively large bosses with lots of moving parts. These are incredibly disorienting, especially to those of us more susceptible to motion sickness. This makes these encounters not only unfun, but a health risk. It may even induce vomiting in some people or cause them to lose their balance when rising from their seats.

Adding something to accessibility options to freeze skybox and environmental animations would go a long way into lessening things like this. And i would encourage the devs to take a second look at the animations of large bosses to lessen any possible effect it may have on those of us with motion sickness.

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I'm not sure if it would help, but have you tried messing with the color blindness settings? I had trouble seeing the markers in the Innocence trial and someone in the group suggested using the color blindness settings to help make it easier to see things. For the record I do not have any color blindness issues. And it did work. I know your problem is not the same, but I wondered if changing the colors might help alleviate your problem even just a little. Tends to make things look weird but if it helps. :)

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Originally Posted by Mindiori

I must admit Illmaeran, that I am always impressed with your ability to add nothing of worth at all - whilst somehow penning an essay. It's almost a talent.

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How rude. Certainly what they wrote has worth. I'm surprised you cannot see it, since it's there in plain English.

This person sympathizes with the OP because they've personally had similar problems, but they offer the opinion that they should accept the game as it is, and perhaps try to minimize the effects via other means. I agree with their sentiment. One can only ask for so much without contributing their own efforts to solve personal problems.

What Illmaeran posted literally has infintely more worth than the part of your post I quoted, since yours is nothing but a personal attack and has absolutely, positively nothing to do with the discussion.

You get that, right? It's irony at its best.

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Originally Posted by Linadae

I absolutely feel you there. I was farming Byakko for the dog and the falling section had me getting motion sick to the point where the raid leader said to just keep my eyes closed and they'll tell me when that part is over and they'll rez me after. But I'm not sure if there's anything that could be done to help in that particular fight.

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pTQekJ...e=emb_imp_woyt

This is how I farmed Byakko for the dog. Basically you stop dps entirely at 62%, as shown. It will skip the fall phase every time. Not a solution for all motion sickness issues, but it will work like a charm for that particular one

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

I thought the sage icon nonsense was dumb enough...but the hyperbole is getting ridiculous. "Serious" health issue? How is it that people are so delicate that now a mere phobia presents an accessibility/sensitivity issue? Lalas creep me out and make me feel nauseous. Where's my lala removal Square?

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Motion sickness is not a "mere phobia." It's a neurological thing. Some peoples' brains (mine included) can't handle it when their visual perception neglects to line up with their inner ear's perception of motion. It is in no way related to aesthetics. Your example with Lalas is comparing apples to oranges. Portal is a beautiful game, and the little I played of it was lots of fun. Unfortunately, I had to walk away from my computer five minutes into playing the demo, so I never bought the full version, nor did I ever play it again. It's nothing to do with the aesthetics of the game and everything to do with the fact the first person perspectives make me physically ill. Not because I deem them uncool or ugly, but because my brain can't handle seeing such realistic movements while I'm sitting still in front of my computer.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

I thought the sage icon nonsense was dumb enough...but the hyperbole is getting ridiculous. "Serious" health issue? How is it that people are so delicate that now a mere phobia presents an accessibility/sensitivity issue? Lalas creep me out and make me feel nauseous. Where's my lala removal Square?

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The Sage icon was a very easy fix for something that would permeate the entire game. You're changing a single icon that could show up anywhere, in any party.

Changing motion sickness in a raid is a much harder fix for something that can be avoided by simply not doing that raid. While it is something I'd like to see them assess, the reality is that if it takes a ton of manpower to help out a minority of players do a single piece of content, its simply not something SE can spend resources on.

This is the weirdest troll trend I've seen in all my gaming years

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Originally Posted by Oichi

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pTQekJ...e=emb_imp_woyt

This is how I farmed Byakko for the dog. Basically you stop dps entirely at 62%, as shown. It will skip the fall phase every time. Not a solution for all motion sickness issues, but it will work like a charm for that particular one

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Stop DPS? Never.

People have all kinds of issues, motion sickness is physical. Like another poster in this thread who got trashed for trying to empathize with the OP I have a terrible phobia of heights. To the point I can not do the Golden saucer jump contest. I tried each and everytime no matter how many times I try I have to leave because I can and will react physically. You know I thought it would be good therapy for my phobia trying jumping but it's not. I have a great deal of trouble in platform raids and in the churning mists. So I totally get the physical aspect of this. But I also realize my fears are not going to change this game so I deal with it. They do make motion sickness pills you can buy over the counter at any drug store or you may want to visit your doctor to get some medication to help you deal with this illness. Motion is all around us, we drive cars ride bikes, skate boards trains planes. This is your reality you have to find a way to deal with it, because at the end of the day the world is not going to stop for you because you have motion sickness.

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Originally Posted by Breakbeat

You get that, right? It's irony at its best.

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Thank you Breakbeat, I appreciate that. Mindori's not entirely wrong as I can, and often do, ramble while trying to formulate cohesive statements. It didn't need to be said, and certainly not said in the way it was, but this is a general discussion forum and these things happen. I'll just take it as a tip that I need to be more concise in the future. :)

Regards,
IQ

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Originally Posted by Linadae

I absolutely feel you there. I was farming Byakko for the dog and the falling section had me getting motion sick to the point where the raid leader said to just keep my eyes closed and they'll tell me when that part is over and they'll rez me after. But I'm not sure if there's anything that could be done to help in that particular fight.

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To be fair the Byakko one is legit awful. I can handle it because I got used to play extreme snowboard videogames or sonic games with constant falling and special effects as a kid but that section easily hurts the eyes and senses.

I do not have this problem but if even one person has this problem I would say get him/her the option to turn off certain graphical aspects
+1 from me

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Originally Posted by Vaell

I have returned to the game relatively recently and have begun catching up in the latest content. The nier raids, eden etc. In doing this i have encountered one very alarming thing: a sudden dramatic increase in environmental movement and excessive use of special effects. I never really experienced this in older content, so something in the latest stuff has crossed a line.

Excessive movement in the sky boxes, random environmental movement in objects like factory fans, excessively large bosses with lots of moving parts. These are incredibly disorienting, especially to those of us more susceptible to motion sickness. This makes these encounters not only unfun, but a health risk. It may even induce vomiting in some people or cause them to lose their balance when rising from their seats.

Adding something to accessibility options to freeze skybox and environmental animations would go a long way into lessening things like this. And i would encourage the devs to take a second look at the animations of large bosses to lessen any possible effect it may have on those of us with motion sickness.

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Along with that I think the ability to remove Enemy Boss flashy abilities would go a long way.

I have light sensitivity and have minimum player effects turned on for just this reason. But bosses? Flashy as F*ck and there's nothing I can do to mitigate it.