yoshi what are you doing to steel cyclone ):?

i know its getting toned down, but how exactly? i need to know details, please :confused:

Lower damage likely. Changing to cone doesn't make sense, but this does.

We probably won't hear anything until next week as it's Golden Week in Japan now.

I don't want it to reduce damage, since it is only good AoE WAR need.
I think just make it cool down longer is fine.

Or as a lot suggest before, upgrade other jobs instead of nerf War.

NERF WAR

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

About time

:P

Im a PLD so i really hope they nerf it good and then I aint gonna invite wars to parties because of low damage out put

:P

Sorry I had to couldnt resist.

the news of the PLD Buff and WAR Nerf did this to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw8jsQfhXeA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasagawa

NERF WAR

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

About time

:P

Im a PLD so i really hope they nerf it good and then I aint gonna invite wars to parties because of low damage out put

:P

Sorry I had to couldnt resist.

the news of the PLD Buff and WAR Nerf did this to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw8jsQfhXeA

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pld sucked in XI, should continue the legacy here

nah, this fix is overdue. bring on the balance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

nah, this fix is overdue. bring on the balance.

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theres plenty of balance, pld is the butt of all jokes class

Yup reduce steel cyclone damage by half, about time MRD/WAR was nerfed :D

YAY Re enforcement's :P

Good change..! About time for a nerf to war, this balance is needed. class A tank and class A DD. too much.

Time for other classes to shine equally. :cool: perhaps we'll start seeing more invites to other classes now. Good direction SE..

On top of nerfs where needed, i would also like to see more boosts for each class to make them needed in their own way, moreso than their current state.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alise

I don't want it to reduce damage, since it is only good AoE WAR need.
I think just make it cool down longer is fine.

Or as a lot suggest before, upgrade other jobs instead of nerf War.

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increasing the cooldown does reduce its damage. warrior has 2 AOEs, and whirlwind is getting a buff. other melee jobs already do far more single-target dps than warrior.

just saying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gennosuke

Good change..! About time for a nerf to war, this balance is needed. class A tank and class A DD. too much.

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class A tank situationally (most situations, currently)

class A dps situationally (a couple situations, but mostly class B-C)

Steel Cyclone needs a longer recast. Off the top of my head I can't think of another class/job that has a full combo recast at 30 seconds, not to mention AoE with only one directional condition. Monk has a single-target equivalent (Howling Fist combo) but it has a much longer recast.

Nerfing the damage a bit could help too, I mean right now Warriors just tear through any number of enemies. Especially when farming groups of enemies, you cannot beat a Warrior.

Hopefully this will help push people away from WAR stacking everything with groups of enemies. I mean Dragoon has a small handful of good AoE attacks but why bring them when you can bring Warrior with its 360 degree death Cyclone with a lower recast?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I mean Dragoon has a small handful of good AoE attacks but why bring them when you can bring Warrior with its 360 degree death Cyclone with a lower recast?

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because dragoon, geared and played correctly, does equal aoe dps and quite a lot more single target dps.

people bring warriors because most dragoons (well, not really limited to dragoons, but...) are awful and warrior is really easy to do serviceable dps with. same reason people bring blm (though admittedly either blm really needs a nerf or encounters need to stop being designed in such a way as to cater to blm's strengths)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

because dragoon, geared and played correctly, does equal aoe dps and quite a lot more single target dps

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But their AoEs are on a higher recast and they've got a lower survivability (HP). On something like Hamlet Defense which is an AoE fest I tried to go Dragoon and was told outright by a PUG group to go back to Warrior because it had better AoEs and HP.

Wow but war was supposed to to specialize in crowd control dds wise now being nerfed for doing their job? I understand the tank stuff but buffing pld dmg and hp and making outmanuever more potent and last a minute or make it work like rampage. I just don't understand the whole addition by subtraction bs. Drg need more hp but its not getting a buff. I have pld and war and I would rather pld shield to block dmg like foresight does. Take 0 dmg for a block and half dmg from a partial parry. That would buff pld and set out apart from wars by adding something to the job with the actual shortcoming. Just a thought. I mean what's next? Nerf whm cuz it heals better than pld?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcell

But their AoEs are on a higher recast and they've got a lower survivability (HP). On something like Hamlet Defense which is an AoE fest I tried to go Dragoon and was told outright by a PUG group to go back to Warrior because it had better AoEs and HP.

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warriors are preferred for hamlet because frontal combos are easy, and because the crit mechanic of steel cyclone has good synergy with rampage. the HP pools are the icing on the cake.

as far as aoes having higher recast, that's patently false. leg sweep is 30 seconds, frontal, and only requires 1 combo step, rather than two. it's also only 1k tp, so it's much less punishing to use it out of combo in a pinch. (combo is still preferred, though, for stun) next we have ring of talons. if you need aoe, keen flurry gives this two uses in 1 minute. same as steel cyclone. the caveat here is that it combos from impulse drive, which forces you to stack accuracy so you don't miss. and then there's dragonfire dive, which is 15mins, but is a great "oh sh-" button.

keeping in mind whirlwind, which is on an 80 second cooldown- assuming infinite TP and perfect ability timing, warrior has exactly 6 aoe attacks available in a 90 second span. dragoon has 8. if we reduce the requirement to 60 seconds, warrior has 4 available aoe's to dragoon's 7. if we reduce the requirement to 30 seconds, warrior has 3 available to dragoon's 5. so, no. technically dragoon has more available aoe firepower than warrior.

and while warrior does look and feel completely OP on useless level 50 mobs (and it is), as i said before and i maintain- geared and played correctly dragoon has a higher aoe dps ceiling... as well as much higher single target dps to boot.

none of this is to say warrior doesn't potentially need to be tweaked a little, but it is to say that the community often barks up the wrong trees in the process.

What about splitting the WS dmg through the numbers of mobs while keeping the enm generation. That would keep the WAR as crowd tank and reduce the total dmg. And SE has to eighter lower WARs DEF or HP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

warriors are preferred for hamlet because frontal combos are easy, and because the crit mechanic of steel cyclone has good synergy with rampage. the HP pools are the icing on the cake.

as far as aoes having higher recast, that's patently false. leg sweep is 30 seconds, frontal, and only requires 1 combo step, rather than two. it's also only 1k tp, so it's much less punishing to use it out of combo in a pinch. (combo is still preferred, though, for stun) next we have ring of talons. if you need aoe, keen flurry gives this two uses in 1 minute. same as steel cyclone. the caveat here is that it combos from impulse drive, which forces you to stack accuracy so you don't miss. and then there's dragonfire dive, which is 15mins, but is a great "oh sh-" button.

keeping in mind whirlwind, which is on an 80 second cooldown- assuming infinite TP and perfect ability timing, warrior has exactly 6 aoe attacks available in a 90 second span. dragoon has 8. if we reduce the requirement to 60 seconds, warrior has 4 available aoe's to dragoon's 7. if we reduce the requirement to 30 seconds, warrior has 3 available to dragoon's 5. so, no. technically dragoon has more available aoe firepower than warrior.

and while warrior does look and feel completely OP on useless level 50 mobs (and it is), as i said before and i maintain- geared and played correctly dragoon has a higher aoe dps ceiling... as well as much higher single target dps to boot.

none of this is to say warrior doesn't potentially need to be tweaked a little, but it is to say that the community often barks up the wrong trees in the process.

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It's not so much that they can do damage so well, it's that they can do damage so well at the same time as tanking. Just because they do slightly less damage than a drg, is FAR offset since at the same time they're outclassing PLDs.

i don't disagree- i'm simply touching on the sweeping generalizations people are making by pointing out the specific capabilities of the jobs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vaymathias

It's not so much that they can do damage so well, it's that they can do damage so well at the same time as tanking. Just because they do slightly less damage than a drg, is FAR offset since at the same time they're outclassing PLDs.

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...Which is what is interesting about these changes. I, for one, am all for the proposed changes to both WAR and PLD. That being said, it does seem that they are not really addressing the big issue here; that being that WAR can DD well and Tank better than any class, when the proposed job was a DD with the ability to tank if needed. I do not play WAR, so I only have the raw stats to go by, but it seems like these changes will do the most damage to WAR's ability to DD, not to it's ability to tank. Hopefully this is well thought out and will achieve the intended results, only time will tell.

Just take away WARs ability to use GLD abilities.


Problem solved.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

i don't disagree- i'm simply touching on the sweeping generalizations people are making by pointing out the specific capabilities of the jobs.

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By tackling those generalizations though, you come off as defending War's case or at the very least ignoring the bigger picture/issue here, when really, everyone should voice out against the imbalance amongst jobs, because it is causing much discontent with the game for most ppl. It is a big issue and has been since the start of the game.

It is not an easy thing for devs to perfect balance amongst all jobs, however in the case of War, the discrepancy is big, because as someone stated above, it is excelling in both areas, offense and defense. For the most part, Pld's are not shining as tanks as they should, neither are other DD jobs in many situations because of the lack of crowd control for eg.

Even though it is a step in the right direction, nerfing OP jobs that is, personally though, my bigger concern/interest is rather boosting other jobs to excel in other (needed) areas. That would add to the solution, would raise the demand for other jobs and bring more variety to the table, making the battle system more strategic and interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

i don't disagree- i'm simply touching on the sweeping generalizations people are making by pointing out the specific capabilities of the jobs.

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And welcome to the world that has been created by pushing jobs to the sidelines, people do not know how to play them, if people suggest going DRG, they will get a reply "I only have exp on WAR, I have never played DRG" I have seen that sort of comment before now, so while its the sort of thing I personally hate (lets not get into that) it exists.

Also if you have a job pushed completly out the picture people will not gear it as well, why spend something like 30mil+ to get double and triple melds on a job you never use, so people still get stuck on the job they always play.

While I know it has to be false I have been told before now that "right now DRG and MNK are completly useless" that was before a Garuda fight by someone I believe has killed her (yes I have been stuck on BLM on it) another problem with pushing jobs to the sidelines, no one knows what they can even do.

And back on topic I have a suggestion xxx's Steel Cyclone deals 1 damage to mobs super nerf :p

Nah, I think the point why a lot of people demand for other classes buff is because :

-WHM = significant role as best healer. (no other job can heal as good)
-BLM = significant role as best spell nuker. (no other job come near in spell damage)
-BRD = significant role as range-attack and support. (since no any other job can do physical-range.
-WAR = significant tank that have GOOD AoE. (here, you can see its role different from other melee choice)

Problem is :
-PLD = a tank? but why such a low defend? not much higher than WAR. enmity also just so so. and the healing self skill cost mp too much that it is not reliable in long boss fight.
-MNK, DRG = very vague on its role. not significant in any other way at all. They are top single Dps!! but very similar to each other. MNK evasion doesn't work as often on boss, so it doesn't bring enough different to DRG. (So far, I never seen any content that favor on evasion-tank yet!!) DRG also have little AoE, little support WS add into it, but nothing make it clear.

To fix :
I think SE need to make clear that they want MNK to be evasion tank? or they want MNK to be DpS? just let it boost one to the best. If SE want it to be evasion type. make it dodge as much as thief/ninja in evasion build FF11. If SE want it to be Dps then make sure that MNK will have single Dps out number every job by vast amount.

DRG need to boost more attack power to make people confirm with the outstanding number. Make it clear if SE want it to be DPS type (in case if they make MNK as evasion-tank role) or they want to make this as Spike DD type?

PLD need to have much higher defend that WAR can't compare with at all.

Unless I made a mistake this is how the current combo system looks for each Job

1k-Heavy-Lead-Wide 10/30/80 Wide=AOE
1k-Heavy-Quick-Rain 10/180/30 Quick=AOE cone Rain=AOE
1k-Pierce-Shadow 20/40
1k-Pierce-Gloom-Blood 20/10/80
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THM=Fire/Thunder
WHM=Aero/Earth
---------------------------------
1kF-Fast-Savage-Goring 10/30/80
1kF-Fast-Flat 10/10 (Enmity gain combo)
1kB-Riot-Rage 80/20
.2Sh-Phalanx-Spirit 5/120
Flash/War Drum=AOE
---------------------------------
1kF-True-Heavy- 10/20
1kF-True-Leg-Doom 10/30/60 Leg=AOE cone?
1.5kBVorp-Impulse-Chaos 20/30/80
1.5kBVorp-Impulse-Ring 20/30/60 Ring=AOE
.5M-Feint-Disembowel 10/30
----------------------------------
1kF-Heavy-Skull-Steel 10/30/30 Steel=AOE
1.5kS-Brutal-Maim-Gods 20/30/60
1.5kB-Path-Whirl 30/80 Whirl=Slow animation AOE
--------------------------------
1kF-Pummel-Concussive-Simian 10/30/80
1kF-Pummel-Aura 10/40 Aura=AOE
1.5kB-Pounce-Sucker-Dragon 20/15/60
1.5kB-Pounce-Demolish-Howling 20/30/80

ARC/BRD has the advantage of doing any combo as long as it's 8 yalms away from the target.

GLD/PLD has a 10/10 second combo which can grant them an enmity boost every 20-30 seconds, WAR's is a 10/30 recast.

ARC/DRG both have 2 AOE combos along with WAR, the recast go 10/30/80-10/180/30 for Archer and 10/30/60-20/30/60 so in that respect Warrior does have an advantage with it's 10/30/30 AOE combo but it's somewhat balance by the 30/80 combo that can only be done from behind, but also has the disadvantage of being an extremely slow animation.

I know there are other fine details to go along with this like some skills have to be performed on certain sides in order to gain their effect but overall when changes are being made SE should take into account that when it comes to combos Warrior only has one reliable one when tanking, even other classes have 2 Front combos they can rely on yet WAR has one. When it comes to the powerful combo of 10/30/30 if the 2nd move misses then you either have to wait those 30 seconds or use 2k TP if you want to use SC, since Brutal is a single target single attack odds or missing can be high. The biggest disadvantage that Warrior has is it's inability to fall back on a combo if one of their combos break from a miss. Other Class can usually fall back on a combo but in Warrior's case they have to wait out the duration of the second ability if they wish to try for the combo again.

Basically what I"m getting at is this. I said this on the translation topic but I think Steel Cyclone should change into a Front and Back 3rd combo move.

Steel Cyclone itself would change to a 45 second recast and the following would change:
Front Attack=Rampage Active=increased Radius/Decreased Attack/Increased Enmity/-15 second recast
Back Attack=Berserk Active=Decreased Radius/Increased Attack/+15 recast

The Front Combo would remain the same Heavy/Skull/Steel but Back would change to have Steel added at the end Path/Whirl/Steel

The overall difference between the two would be
Recast wise
10/30/30
30/80/60
By itself 45 second recast.

Overall rather then just changing it so Steel Cyclone dmg gets reduced with the May 10th VU, they should compensate it by adding it to the back attack combo as well as increasing the animation speed of Whirlwind. The reason why DDing from the front as well as tanking at the same time is so effective is not only because of the quick recast of Steel Cyclone but the quick animation as well. The animation lock from Whirlwind is so long that it becomes for of a hindrance against mobs that have timed AOEs that you can avoid. Unlike Steel Cyclone which fires off then you go right back to attacking.

I just think it would be nice if we could at least be given 3 3 combos rather then the 3/3/2 we have atm, combo wise minus the mages we have the lowest amount of combos to work with and we have to activate them all from different positions.

But ya I just think this would be a nice tweak for WAR, change it in such a way that Steel Cyclone is given a defining defensive/Offensive trait both with their own trade offs. Weaken the attack of Steel Cyclone when it's used for enmity gain since this is WAR's only AOE enmity combo from the front at a 10/30/30 recast meanwhile PLD has a 30 second Flash along with a 60 second one that can be used after blocking. To their advantage they never have to worry about needing TP to perform an AOE for hate but Warrior's either need to perform the 10/30/30 combo or use 2k TP.

I know their are abilities from classes that can assist with said skills but the overall idea of this post is to give others an idea of where each classes combos stand. I just hope WAR is adjusted in a way where we can still be seen as tanks rather then create the same situation with healing where only WHM is seen as a healer lol.

I think I'm with Alise and as for DRG I feel they should leave the DEF where it is but raise the DPS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

increasing the cooldown does reduce its damage. warrior has 2 AOEs, and whirlwind is getting a buff. other melee jobs already do far more single-target dps than warrior.

just saying.



class A tank situationally (most situations, currently)

class A dps situationally (a couple situations, but mostly class B-C)

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^^^ This

I swear most these people dont play any damage classes DRG, MNK, BRD, BLM can all out DPS a WAR if they try, people just see the numbers from WAR tank position (which means constant uninterrupted because of not having to dodge most things) and all the sudden cry #1 they obviously have not seen or played a good other DD. Steel Cyclone could use a slight nerf but keep in mind it is a job skill its supposed to be pretty powerful the cooldown might be what the issue is. As for tanking they just need to fix PLD. I mean who thought it was a good idea to nerf PLD health and not give it significantly higher defense?

'Balance' is a PLD buff, not an anything nerf.

Keep it together, ladies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

'Balance' is a PLD buff, not an anything nerf.

Keep it together, ladies.

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Exactly; Paladin does not suffer from an inability to tank, if you're struggling to tank on pld, you're doing it wrong.
I'll agree on the fact that Pld does need a bit more HP, but it mainly suffers from it's inability to do damage and nothing else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

'Balance' is a PLD buff, not an anything nerf.

Keep it together, ladies.

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Buff is needed at times, and nerf is needed at times.
If i assume blm is your current job, let us see SE buff up nuke dmg for whm to be higher than blm and then to 'balance' (following your logic..) have them boost blm even more instead of nerf whm down to what it should logically be at.

See the flaw in that logic?

The point here is War should not excel in both areas, regardless of whether you buff pld or not. It is not on par with other jobs as a 'package'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gennosuke

Buff is needed at times, and nerf is needed at times.
If i assume blm is your current job, let us see SE buff up nuke dmg for whm to be higher than blm and then to 'balance' (following your logic..) have them boost blm even more instead of nerf whm down to what it should logically be at.

See the flaw in that logic?

The point here is War should not excel in both areas, regardless of whether you buff pld or not. It is not on par with other jobs as a 'package'.

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there is a flaw in your logic as well. WHM is not supposed to be a nuker WAR is supposed to be a tank

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

'Balance' is a PLD buff, not an anything nerf.

Keep it together, ladies.

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pld is getting buff
drg is getting buff
war is getting nerf AND buff

problems ? http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post661877

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krausus

there is a flaw in your logic as well. WHM is not supposed to be a nuker WAR is supposed to be a tank

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Actually, it seems you misinterpreted my logic. I was obviously advocating the nerf in this situation which in this case is a DD nerf, not a tank nerf. So i'm not sure why you're telling me War is supposed to be a tank. That's not specifically my issue here.

On another note, i could argue that Whm is supposed to be a nuker as well since it has nuke damage spells as well.

Again the point here is overall balance. Whm can nuke, but blm will obviously surpass when it comes to DD.
War on the other hand is a great DD, as well as a top tank.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out the balance is broken here. Hence the countless people and threads popping up with complaints, all derived from this little equation here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

'Balance' is a PLD buff, not an anything nerf.

Keep it together, ladies.

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So you just want everything easymode? if they keep buffing for every inaballance we will be oneshotting every boss in the game. Nerfs are needed at times and yes WAR does need nerfing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gennosuke

Actually, it seems you misinterpreted my logic. I was obviously advocating the nerf in this situation which in this case is a DD nerf, not a tank nerf. So i'm not sure why you're telling me War is supposed to be a tank. That's not specifically my issue here.

On another note, i could argue that Whm is supposed to be a nuker as well since it has nuke damage spells as well.

Again the point here is overall balance. Whm can nuke, but blm will obviously surpass when it comes to DD.
War on the other hand is a great DD, as well as a top tank.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out the balance is broken here. Hence the countless people and threads popping up with complaints, all derived from this little equation here.

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no its not the same its hyperbole you cant compare WHM and BLM and WAR and PLD the roles are just way to different. If WHM DPSed as much as a BLM then a nerf is obviously needed because a WHM is not a DPS job. WAR is a DPS and tank job PLD is a Tank and healing job, they share a role which is tanking I dont know why people think one has to be better than the other when their differences is their secondary role which is DPS and healing. Issue is WAR is much better at their secondary role than PLD, buff PLD secondary remove the HP nerf and give them the +def they are supposed to have and things would be better off. I dont think the issue is WAR is to strong (maybe a little with steel cyclone low CD) the Issue IMO is they screwed up on PLD. Hell PLD barely resembles the description.

Steel Cyclone isn't necessarily the issue IMO. Sure it could definitely use a higher cooldown, but I think WARs most needed nerf is Rampage. Get rid of Rampage and just have Defender/Beserk.

As far as HP and Enmity go, PLD needs a HP buff and Enmity buff while WAR should get a Enmity debuff.

Warrior is both a tanking job and a DPS job. I wouldn't say that Paladin is both a tanking job and a healing job. They've really only got Holy Succor and that's it for healing others, Paladin is solely a tanking job and it does not excel at that.

By the same notion, if any job could heal better than a White Mage there would be an uproar. Why? Because the only thing that White Mage excels at is healing, that is its sole role. This is why there is a problem with Paladin and Warrior. The only thing Paladin can excel at is the tanking role and Warrior beats the pants off of it in the tanking role.

For Paladin to be useful, it must excel at the tanking role more so than any other job because that is all it is made to do. Paladin should, at the very least, be the safe tank. Warrior can be used as tank to kill things faster but it should not have higher overall survivability than Paladin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Warrior is both a tanking job and a DPS job. I wouldn't say that Paladin is both a tanking job and a healing job. They've really only got Holy Succor and that's it for healing others, Paladin is solely a tanking job and it does not excel at that.

By the same notion, if any job could heal better than a White Mage there would be an uproar. Why? Because the only thing that White Mage excels at is healing, that is its sole role. This is why there is a problem with Paladin and Warrior. The only thing Paladin can excel at is the tanking role and Warrior beats the pants off of it in the tanking role.

For Paladin to be useful, it must excel at the tanking role more so than any other job because that is all it is made to do. Paladin should, at the very least, be the safe tank. Warrior can be used as tank to kill things faster but it should not have higher overall survivability than Paladin.

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and that is the base issue I think is PLD survivability when I say secondary as healing I didnt necissarily mean healing others they need to be able to keep themselves more self survivable. the HP nerf was not a good idea and by definition alone PLD should have a lot higher defense than WAR, it would be nice if PLD also had a larger MP pool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krausus

no its not the same its hyperbole you cant compare WHM and BLM and WAR and PLD the roles are just way to different. If WHM DPSed as much as a BLM then a nerf is obviously needed because a WHM is not a DPS job.

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This is not actually a whm/blm comparison to war/pld. The only reason i used Blm in my example is because the person i replied to has a thm class as main in his profile so i attempted to relate to that. Nevertheless, my point in that reply was more along the lines of what Delsus mentioned above. It was specifically against the idea of just buffing up other jobs instead of nerfing jobs where needed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krausus

WAR is a DPS and tank job PLD is a Tank and healing job, they share a role which is tanking I dont know why people think one has to be better than the other when their differences is their secondary role which is DPS and healing. Issue is WAR is much better at their secondary role than PLD, buff PLD secondary remove the HP nerf and give them the +def they are supposed to have and things would be better off.

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Ok, so Both War and Pld are intentionally designed as tanks primarily with a secondary role of DPS for War and Healer for Pld.

There are a few problems with this design when compared to the rest of the jobs and this is where the issue lies.

What exactly are the secondary roles of Mnk and Drg? How defined and how efficient are they? No one invites mnk or Drg with a secondary role in mind. They are simply seen as DD. If anything, you could say Evasion for mnk and TP for DRG eventually may translate into a better DPS outcome (whether thru bit more survivability or more WS).

For a melee, the 2 main areas (as of now atleast) that they fit into are tanking and DPS. Fortunately for war (and unfortunately for others), War excels in both. All the other melee really suck at any clear-cut defined secondary role, especially in the harder battles.

In this case, one of 2 solutions is required. Either War gets a nerf on the secondary role, i.e Dps nerf and becomes as crappy at that secondary role as the rest of the melee jobs are at their secondary role or.. all the other jobs get a big boost and well defined secondary roles that actually makes a real significant impact in any battle.
Trust me, i am more than happy going as a Monk evasion tank in an Ifrit battle but i don't see that happening anytime soon.

That is the whole idea of balance here. You can't equate Tank + DPS to any of the other puny combinations we have at the moment. Tanking and DPS'ing in the same time is overkill. This is what makes War problematic balance-wise and is the reason they're favoured in almost all situations.