What's the Healer rush?

Firstly let me say I've come from WoW so I'm used to a M+ environment where it's all about killing everything as fast as you can chain pulling ect

However when I came to FF and did dungeons almost everyone has been ok at the speed I go through a dungeon at (I'm a warrior) I say almost because on the few occasions that I've had someone in my group who has been the "go go go" guy it's always a healer.

Now I'm not saying I'm without blame in these cases but for the first time I go into a dungeon, I don't know how bad the mobs might hurt ect so I will air on the side of caution and so maybe I do go a little slow. I do always mention if it's the first time I'm doing a dungeon. The last case was the dungeon Doma Castle. The build up to this dungeon was awesome and I was looking forward to it. Instead what I had was a level 80 healer spent the entire dungeon running ahead of the group, barely healing me at all (on one group of mobs letting me die as he didn't cast a single healing spell)

So why is it with healers you're in such a god damn rush?

I kinda feel it's such a different attitude compared to everything else I've experience from the FF community.

The GOTTA GO FAST mentality is prevalent in both games, especially where dungeons are concerned. As far as healers go, their job is fairly uneventful to play if you are simply taking your time and pulling a group or 2 at once. Wall to wall pulling is a community standard that has existed from the beginning. It's not hard and it provides your healer with something to do. Obviously it's something that some people need to work up to, but it would be beneficial if you do indeed get there some day. So basically what it boils down to is that healers get bored and want to be entertained. Pull bigger and faster to avoid having them pull for you. There are very, very few situations where caution is actually needed.

https://i.redd.it/i9qbf19qdz651.png

Because they've probably done the dungeon a hundred times now and wanted to blitz through it. While not common per se, you'll have people pull ahead of the tank, especially if you're single pulling, simply due to how little damage individual mob packs deal. As a healer, it's incredibly boring when tanks pull small, though I'm assuming you pulled a big enough amount to actually need healing since you died.

My advice though, pull at least two packs and try to get yourself comfortable wall pulling. It's pretty much expected at the higher levels and you'll get people pulling ahead of you. Mobs really aren't threatening whatsoever.

Healers are usually bored. Healing is easy and they can actually deal damage most of the time. Healing those 3 enemies you pulled is so boring that they usually want more of a challenge and it won't be much of one but they will be a little less bored if you pull more.

My advice is to look at the level of the dungeon.

Level 1-49, 51-59, 61-69, 71-79 - pulling multiple packs in these dungeons is risky and should only be done if you are a confident tank that understands how much will be safe, when to use mitigation and how to survive if the healer is new.

Level 50 - there are no walls in most of these dungeons, so it's safer to only pull 2-3 packs and then adjust based on your experience.

Level 60, 70 and 80 - pull everything. Even a tank without mitigation will usually be fine in these dungeons because the item level sync makes everyone overgeared.

A good majority of dungeons in the game from 50 onward tend to favor wall-to-wall pulling by design, with the occasional exception for dungeons in between expansion level caps. And because syncing removes abilities, somebody who hasn't done leveling content in a while may forget that they no longer have those tools at hand.

Another problem for newer players is the early game dungeons (basically everything below 50) do a bad job at preparing you for wall-to-wall pulling. Walls are further apart, so there are more mobs, and you don't have the tools to properly mitigate, heal, and damage large packs quick enough. Likewise with a dungeon like Doma Castle, not everyone in the party may have the appropriate gear, which affects tanks and healers more than DPS.

The best thing you can do in this situation is just communicate that you're new to the dungeon (and newer to the game). The default setting for most experienced players is definitely Go, Go Go but if you express that you'd rather take it a little slower then the vast majority of players will be fine with that. Of course, if someone is just being a jackass for the sake of being a jackass then feel free to use whatever tool are available to remedy the situation.

I'll admit that I'm guilty of 'rush rush rush' in groups with no first-timers, but I always stay with the group and follow the tank because it's their job to set the pace, not me.

The best thing you can do in a situation where you've already communicated that you're new and uncomfortable with going fast, is to just simply continue going at your own pace. Ignore the rush of the healer, and pull what you're comfortable with.

Do this, and depending on how well the run is going with the healer being belligerent, one of a few things will happen:

1. The healer will relent and go with your flow.
2. Someone will leave, in which case you can use your discretion to drop as well and re-queue with your instant tank queue.
3. The healer (or a DPS, although in my opinion DPS in XIV are so much nicer and understanding than DPS in WoW) will grow increasingly toxic, in which case you can report them or call them out to hopefully achieve 1 or 2.

Any way you'll come out on top, and all the healer will accomplish is wasting more of everyone's time than would have been spent doing the dungeon at your pace.

A Chad tank never stops or never thinks they are going too fast. Be a Chad tank.

I don't do that in runs but for me at least it's kind of like if you don't make the biggest pull you possibly can playing as the healer is ridiculously boring
It's just spam the one aoe spell over and over and occasionally use a big ogc heal

If it's a huge intense pull I actually feel like i'm doing something

since I am usually the healer, cant say I ever push the tank to go fast than they want to go. I am in no hurry and prefer the tank be comfy with their pulls.

in my experience as a healer main
1. typically the tank sprinting through everything to grab it all and worry about the healer keeping up only once they die
2. impatient dps.

If your job was that boring and devoid of depth, you'd be in a rush to get out as well.

Usually, the speed regulates itself after a few pulls, when tank and healer trust each other to handle the load, and the dps has proven to be able to kill it before the next maintenance.
Sometimes a tank sprints, pulls as much as possible, then faceplants immediately the second they stop. Sometimes everything is smooth. But it usually works out a few minutes into the run.

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

Firstly let me say I've come from WoW so I'm used to a M+ environment where it's all about killing everything as fast as you can chain pulling ect

However when I came to FF and did dungeons almost everyone has been ok at the speed I go through a dungeon at (I'm a warrior) I say almost because on the few occasions that I've had someone in my group who has been the "go go go" guy it's always a healer.

Now I'm not saying I'm without blame in these cases but for the first time I go into a dungeon, I don't know how bad the mobs might hurt ect so I will air on the side of caution and so maybe I do go a little slow. I do always mention if it's the first time I'm doing a dungeon. The last case was the dungeon Doma Castle. The build up to this dungeon was awesome and I was looking forward to it. Instead what I had was a level 80 healer spent the entire dungeon running ahead of the group, barely healing me at all (on one group of mobs letting me die as he didn't cast a single healing spell)

So why is it with healers you're in such a god damn rush?

I kinda feel it's such a different attitude compared to everything else I've experience from the FF community.

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I would say, as a healer main, it's so I have something to do! A single pack I don't really need to do anything beyond my one button aoe and it gets very boring doing that for a whole dungeon! So I appreciate a tank pulling everything. That said if I run ahead and jump about a bit and I see the tank just isn't interested I will match your pace. That healer not healing you idk.. but if it were me it would simply be me trying to hint that you are safe to pull more I will keep you alive my dear tank! Who doesn't love a swarm of mobs to murder?

Additional protip healers, use rescue on slow tanks to both keep up the pace and aggressively encourage the tank to do better.

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

Firstly let me say I've come from WoW so I'm used to a M+ environment where it's all about killing everything as fast as you can chain pulling ect

However when I came to FF and did dungeons almost everyone has been ok at the speed I go through a dungeon at (I'm a warrior) I say almost because on the few occasions that I've had someone in my group who has been the "go go go" guy it's always a healer.

Now I'm not saying I'm without blame in these cases but for the first time I go into a dungeon, I don't know how bad the mobs might hurt ect so I will air on the side of caution and so maybe I do go a little slow. I do always mention if it's the first time I'm doing a dungeon. The last case was the dungeon Doma Castle. The build up to this dungeon was awesome and I was looking forward to it. Instead what I had was a level 80 healer spent the entire dungeon running ahead of the group, barely healing me at all (on one group of mobs letting me die as he didn't cast a single healing spell)

So why is it with healers you're in such a god damn rush?

I kinda feel it's such a different attitude compared to everything else I've experience from the FF community.

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Because almost every dungeon in this game is extremely easy and there is virtually no variance in trash pull damage output. If you go slow then you are being inefficient but also boring the healer to death because they will have basically nothing to do since the incoming damage can be handled by a lone regen.

The only immediate exception to this is bardaams mettle, a stormblood leveling dungeon. The trash in there is ridiculous. Some people also say holminster switch which is a shb leveling dungeon but I've never had a problem with it and I am a middling healer at best.

As a levelling whm who's been healing every dungeon so far, I much prefer tanks go at whatever pace they are comfortable with. I've seen tanks do wall 2 wall pulls and through good CD management and holy spam, not need a single heal

I've also encountered tanks who barely survive single pulls, so much so that I have a heard time weaving in dps as they lose chunks of hp at an alarming rate. I would not want the paper tanks to do wall 2 wall pulls.

Besides, the single pull runs usually aren't that much longer so... *shrug*. You do you!

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Additional protip healers, use rescue on slow tanks to both keep up the pace and aggressively encourage the tank to do better.

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The moment you "rescue" me into a trash pack, my internet suddenly has trouble.

I'm a healer main and if a tank is doing small pulls I'll get annoyed for the reason everyone is saying. I want something to do.

I won't say anything or try to pull monsters myself however. I'll follow the pace of the tank anyway.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

The moment you "rescue" me into a trash pack, my internet suddenly has trouble.

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That's fine, tanks are optional.

The roulette system that enables you to fill your dungeon queues quickly also happens to be filled with people trying to get their dailies done fast.

View it as a nice opportunity for experienced players to help you learn about a meta that you yourself will come to value at endgame.

Most of the time at level 80 dungeons or even level 70 dungeons most healers will be fine with Wall to Wall for a good lot of reasons. Number 1 they have done it like 10000 times and they just wanna finish it quick for dailies, Another reason is that mobs hit like a wet paper towel in most dungeons at level 80. That being said a good practice is using the first pull as a gauge of your healers skill pull big and see if they do fine if so continue. There really is no penalty for death so worst case some impatient weirdo gets mad nothing more if death occurs from an over pull. Another thing you can do is check gear.
Main thing is most people wall to wall in level 80 dungeons its just common practice.

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

Firstly let me say I've come from WoW so I'm used to a M+ environment where it's all about killing everything as fast as you can chain pulling ect

However when I came to FF and did dungeons almost everyone has been ok at the speed I go through a dungeon at (I'm a warrior) I say almost because on the few occasions that I've had someone in my group who has been the "go go go" guy it's always a healer.

Now I'm not saying I'm without blame in these cases but for the first time I go into a dungeon, I don't know how bad the mobs might hurt ect so I will air on the side of caution and so maybe I do go a little slow. I do always mention if it's the first time I'm doing a dungeon. The last case was the dungeon Doma Castle. The build up to this dungeon was awesome and I was looking forward to it. Instead what I had was a level 80 healer spent the entire dungeon running ahead of the group, barely healing me at all (on one group of mobs letting me die as he didn't cast a single healing spell)

So why is it with healers you're in such a god damn rush?

I kinda feel it's such a different attitude compared to everything else I've experience from the FF community.

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There is basically no difference in any dungeon mobs. Single pulls are literally never needed unless either tank or healer are literally not present. If you single pull as tank you are just a terrible dps and literally not needed in the group. By this point you should know this.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

There is basically no difference in any dungeon mobs. Single pulls are literally never needed unless either tank or healer are literally not present. If you single pull as tank you are just a terrible dps and literally not needed in the group. By this point you should know this.

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Pretty much this. A tank that is pulling a single pack at at a time post Cutter's Cry is no better than a DPS that refuses to do an aoe rotation or a healer who stands in the corner spamming an aoe heal on themself.

Because healers have a dull playstyle for large portions of their combat time, and the only time it feels rewarding to heal is when you bail the rest of your party out of w/e fire they happened upon due to player error, and it takes a huge amount of things to go wrong for it to even approach that feeling like you saved your party in content like dungeons. Tanks and DPS have easier to meet thresholds for them to get that level of enjoyment out of their roles by comparison. For a typical dungeon run I just keep my mouth shut and let the tank decide the pace personally speaking, but I can't say I've never broached the subject of pulling larger over my 8 years of maining healer but those instances have gotten fewer and farther between since Stormblood.

The funny thing is, most, if not all, Dungeons can be tanked even by a DPS Job as long as the Healer is paying enough attention and the Pulls are on the smaller side. I managed to clear Amaurot as AST with only 2 BLM at my side because the tank instantly left and the next one never showed up.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

since I am usually the healer, cant say I ever push the tank to go fast than they want to go. I am in no hurry and prefer the tank be comfy with their pulls.

in my experience as a healer main
1. typically the tank sprinting through everything to grab it all and worry about the healer keeping up only once they die
2. impatient dps.

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https://twitter.com/Merryweatherey/s...73816344530945 this basically. As someone who often plays WHM.. it's funny to see when in particular undergeared tanks go big and then die because I literally can't out heal what their undergeared self pulled.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Additional protip healers, use rescue on slow tanks to both keep up the pace and aggressively encourage the tank to do better.

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technically that can be reported as harassment.

so, protip... not recommended just because you are impatient

It feels like pushy healers are very rare to come across, considering barely anyone speaks during dungeon roulettes.

Whenever I play a healer I just allow the tank to do whatever kind of pulls they’re comfortable with.. I don’t see the point in rushing them because they need to learn at their own pace, and I’m in no rush to finish dungeons.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

It feels like pushy healers are very rare to come across, considering barely anyone speaks during dungeon roulettes.

Whenever I play a healer I just allow the tank to do whatever kind of pulls they’re comfortable with.. I don’t see the point in rushing them because they need to learn at their own pace, and I’m in no rush to finish dungeons.

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You are learning nothing with single pulls.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

technically that can be reported as harassment.

so, protip... not recommended just because you are impatient

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Only if you do it multiple times. Thankfully most tanks pick up after one, or get so salty I end up doing their role for them.

Doing slow pulls as a first timer in a dungeon is understandable.

However, if there's enough AoE DPS in the group there's really no reason to pull as much as the healer can handle, as with how AoE works in FF XIV one group of mobs will basically die just as fast as 2-3 groups of mobs would end up dying... It saves time and effort to pull more mobs at once.

Why is everyone so scared of dying in a game? Fucking press w until you die or the game forces you to stop, solve problems when they actually become a problem don't make problems up in your head.

If I'm queuing for a random dungeon as a healer and the tank is not pulling at minimum 2 packs, I will absolutely pull for them. Healer gameplay is just too boring if there's barely any enemies since we no longer have a lot of damaging abilities. Not only that, if I enable a single-pulling tank then they'll move on to waste someone else's time and turn somebody else's 10-15 minute dungeon into a 30 or 40 minute run.

Usually there's no problem with pulling ahead since the only thing a tank needs to do to pick up aggro is press their aoe skill. That's literally it. On the few times that I've encountered tanks who freak out at me for speeding things along or decide that they're going to let people die by refusing to take aggro, I leave without a word. Because that kind of behaviour demonstrates a kind of ego that needs a reality check.

If you want to go slow, use trusts.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

If I'm queuing for a random dungeon as a healer and the tank is not pulling at minimum 2 packs, I will absolutely pull for them. Healer gameplay is just too boring if there's barely any enemies since we no longer have a lot of damaging abilities. Not only that, if I enable a single-pulling tank then they'll move on to waste someone else's time and turn somebody else's 10-15 minute dungeon into a 30 or 40 minute run.

Usually there's no problem with pulling ahead since the only thing a tank needs to do to pick up aggro is press their aoe skill. That's literally it. On the few times that I've encountered tanks who freak out at me for speeding things along or decide that they're going to let people die by refusing to take aggro, I leave without a word. Because that kind of behaviour demonstrates a kind of ego that needs a reality check.

If you want to go slow, use trusts.

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That's called 'you pull it, you tank it', perhaps you should stop volunteering to do the tanks job by pulling ahead.. because yes, you are going to get tanks who will happily let you try your hand at being a green tank.

Also, 'ego that needs a reality check', coming from a healer who will pull and dump it on the tank? Pot calling the kettle black?

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

That's called 'you pull it, you tank it', perhaps you should stop volunteering to do the tanks job by pulling ahead.. because yes, you are going to get tanks who will happily let you try your hand at being a green tank.

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"you pull you tank" is just griefing. It's your job to be the meatshield so maybe do that and stop being on an egotrip because you didnt get to be dictator.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

"you pull you tank" is just griefing. It's your job to be the meatshield so maybe do that and stop being on an egotrip because you didnt get to be dictator.

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Deciding how someone else has to play their character/job is an ego trip. So essentially, you all are equally responsible for being the same thing you're decrying.

"You pull you tank" is just as much of a choice as "I'll tank whatever is pulled to me". The big issue is communication and being thoughtful about others, and it seems that a lot of you just want there to be some unspoken standard that meets your interests whether or not it's commonly known (which, FYI, is pretty unpleasant for new players).

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

It feels like pushy healers are very rare to come across, considering barely anyone speaks during dungeon roulettes.

Whenever I play a healer I just allow the tank to do whatever kind of pulls they’re comfortable with.. I don’t see the point in rushing them because they need to learn at their own pace, and I’m in no rush to finish dungeons.

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This is the general philosophy I try to work with as well when playing as any of the 3 roles. To a degree I enjoy the feel of a smooth w2w dungeon run, but only if I'm really familiar with a dungeon. If not then it gets hectic and that's not as much fun, so it's not something I'm interested in forcing others into. I try to let people learn at their own pace.

If people start trying to force others into playing a certain why they don't like, I'll try to help smooth things out for them. If I'm tanking/healing and someone wants to move faster or slower and asks in chat, I'll adjust accordingly and enjoy the adventure. If someone tries to force me into playing a certain way without actually communicating, I'll drop the group like a bad habit and blacklist the pushy people. There's plenty else to do to wait out the timer and any follow-up tank/healer queues are instant anyway.

And to note for everyone's reference, if players get really forceful such as berating you in chat or using abilities like "Rescue" to drag you around, that's absolutely reportable for harassment.

I do tank it, and better than when the actually tank pulls this nonsense because of a hurt ego.

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Originally Posted by Alxyzntlct

Deciding how someone else has to play their character/job is an ego trip. So essentially, you all are equally responsible for being the same thing you're decrying.

"You pull you tank" is just as much of a choice as "I'll tank whatever is pulled to me". The big issue is communication and being thoughtful about others, and it seems that a lot of you just want there to be some unspoken standard that meets your interests whether or not it's commonly known (which, FYI, is pretty unpleasant for new players).

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This.

'You pull you tank' is a response to a failure of communication. A response to another player deciding 'I don't like tanks pace.. so I'm going to run ahead, pull everything and drag it back to him without discussing it with them'. You don't like the tanks pace? How about asking them to pull more, or perhaps inquiring if they're uncomfortable about it? Communicate, find common ground.

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Originally Posted by Alxyzntlct

Deciding how someone else has to play their character/job is an ego trip. So essentially, you all are equally responsible for being the same thing you're decrying.

"You pull you tank" is just as much of a choice as "I'll tank whatever is pulled to me". The big issue is communication and being thoughtful about others, and it seems that a lot of you just want there to be some unspoken standard that meets your interests whether or not it's commonly known (which, FYI, is pretty unpleasant for new players).



This is the general philosophy I try to work with as well when playing as any of the 3 roles. To a degree I enjoy the feel of a smooth w2w dungeon run, but only if I'm really familiar with a dungeon. If not then it gets hectic and that's not as much fun, so it's not something I'm interested in forcing others into. I try to let people learn at their own pace.

If people start trying to force others into playing a certain why they don't like, I'll try to help smooth things out for them. If someone tries to force me into playing a certain way, I'll drop the group like a bad habit and blacklist the pushy people. There's plenty else to do to wait out the timer and any follow-up tank/healer queues are instant anyway.

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For single pulls you do not need a tank at all. You learn nothing as tank with single pulls either. With 4 people more than one group is hilariously easy. You have to actively stop doing AoE to not take aggro as tank and that's just griefing. Tanks need to stop having the mindset that they are the leaders and start having the mindset that they are the meatshields. Other people pulling would be a problem if taking over aggro wasnt so braindead easy. However that's no the world we live in. Shitty tanks are going out of their way to sabotage their group, people who pull extra are not as doing damage is their job and more enemies to aoe means you are doing more damage and therefore you are doing your job better.

And so what if you wipe, you clearly already dont care about going fast. Heavens forbid you might actually learn something from it.