"There wasn't much we could really do with SCH"

So anyone else find this statement from Yoshi-p a tad.... unfounded?

or it it just me?

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Originally Posted by Raylazer11

So anyone else find this statement from Yoshi-p a tad.... unfounded?

or it it just me?

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The dev team is washed up. They may as well remove healer all together and add enhanced Trusts NPCs to cover the job for you. That way everyone can focus on the classes they put more than 10 minutes of design and development time into.

when you play no healer and have no clue what you do with them ofc you would say that also. Like job balance team having no healer player so they go like no clue what we do with sch maybe remove energy drain again shrug

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Originally Posted by Raylazer11

So anyone else find this statement from Yoshi-p a tad.... unfounded?

or it it just me?

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It showed a lack of imagination to me. There are a lot of things they can do with SCH, but that statement single handedly destroyed my faith in their ability to do anything good for SCH. And after just watching how Sage works (it can essentially partner with somebody and heal them just by damaging the enemy), SCH may be dead in endgame content, depending on how everything looks (including the new traits/moves) in EW.

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Originally Posted by Raylazer11

So anyone else find this statement from Yoshi-p a tad.... unfounded?

or it it just me?

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Depends on how you look at it.

Balance wise, I can see it. There's some people that act like SCH is a trash job when really it's quite strong. Add to that it's getting a mobility ability, when mobility has been one of the things that's historically unbalanced FF14 healers so much.

If you mean in terms of rotation/flow - could it use the SMN treatment? Yeah, I could see SCH needing that too

I was about to do a thread with the exact same title. Its simply a fucking lie, no one asked for an unnecesary speed buff that wont be needed (as sge doesnt have it and content has to be cleared without sch) and they didnt acknowledge any of the problems Sch had, for fucks sake I bet anyone here could design better changes than those showed literally add 2 dots, make 1 dot dps neutral and spread applied dots, create a ruin 4 system so healing with aetherflow heals is not a dps loss and we can remove ED + get more weaving windows and you basically have it, fix a bit the pet AI or dont since with all the weaving windows we could in theory plan ahead better. If you feel like actually caring for healers add Selene's kit back but with shields + that speed buff we didnt want and make dissipation a move that make us switch between fairies instead of removing them.

"There wasn't much we could really do with SCH"? more like "There wasn't much we were willing to do with SCH, they're either lazy or incompetent in what healer design regards

Like nothing about charges for Fey Blessing, new shields, or fixing Dissipation, why, just why?

Add asylum 2 to whm and were in this together

That line stuck out like a sore thumb. Unless the SCH list of actions is amazing then I'm putting down the book for good after I finish leveling it to 90.

Essentially playing Sage now, and WHM/AST is a tossup but I never did like the new cards in shb. I'll have to play that by ear.

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!

Sorry, had to just let that one out. Now if you'll excuse me.

https://wompampsupport.azureedge.net...Fspongebob.jpg

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Depends on how you look at it.

Balance wise, I can see it. There's some people that act like SCH is a trash job when really it's quite strong. Add to that it's getting a mobility ability, when mobility has been one of the things that's historically unbalanced FF14 healers so much.

If you mean in terms of rotation/flow - could it use the SMN treatment? Yeah, I could see that too

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Like dont get me wrong but even in ultimates you almost never need 2 sprint in a row for mechanics and i dont think they gonna implement that for endwalker. so even with the mobility buffs its nice too have but you dont need it in anyway. I rather have a not shit ai fairy that also when you do dmg heals strong and consistant the maintank so you only need ogcds for the group. Like sage looks super stacked in comparison too sch, like having mike tyson on crack fight a 5 year old toddler. Its simply not fair.

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Originally Posted by Raylazer11

So anyone else find this statement from Yoshi-p a tad.... unfounded?

or it it just me?

---

I disagree. I know all you negative Nancy's are burnt out and all. But like it or not they did mention a few things.

Broil will have a cast time reduction meaning that it's much easier to command the faeries actions and weave your actions.

They made passing mention to adjustments to their shielding values and the pet ai. While we ofc do not know what this means yet that means they are at least acknowledging that people are complaining about the pets ghosting and the shielding being anaemic.

the fact they've set up SCH to be the "utility" of the shield healers with them having Chain Stratagem and the new Damage Reduction/Movement Speed cooldown. What will ultimately determine this assessment will be what the 'single target buff' it gets versus what sage gets.

Not to mention in the trailer itself it showed that Fey blessing no longer costs Fae Gauge.

So no. They made their stance firm. They do not want to bring the classes back to heavensward level complexity. What scholar was shown to get may not be what you personally wanted, but other then the vagueness of the adjustments and whether or not sch will provide more rdps then sage means that they are absolutely improving from 5.0.

It feels like they completly forgot that healers were a thing and then 10 mins before the live letter they remembered and made all the "changes".

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Like dont get me wrong but even in ultimates you almost never need 2 sprint in a row for mechanics and i dont think they gonna implement that for endwalker. so even with the mobility buffs its nice too have but you dont need it in anyway. I rather have a not shit ai fairy that also when you do dmg heals strong and consistant the maintank so you only need ogcds for the group. Like sage looks super stacked in comparison too sch, like having mike tyson on crack fight a 5 year old toddler. Its simply not fair.

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I'm not so sure about that. SCH still has fey union for example, in addition to regular fairy healing, which are very powerful tools for not minding the tank much. Just to use this one facet as an example.

Of course in an event like this they want to make sage look very cool, while SCH just has the same "old and boring" stuff, but it's not bad.

Though, again, if some want SCH to get an overhaul like SMN did, I can understand that too.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

I disagree. I know all you negative Nancy's are burnt out and all. But like it or not they did mention a few things.

Broil will have a cast time reduction meaning that it's much easier to command the faeries actions and weave your actions.

They made passing mention to adjustments to their shielding values and the pet ai. While we ofc do not know what this means yet that means they are at least acknowledging that people are complaining about the pets ghosting and the shielding being anaemic.

the fact they've set up SCH to be the "utility" of the shield healers with them having Chain Stratagem and the new Damage Reduction/Movement Speed cooldown. What will ultimately determine this assessment will be what the 'single target buff' it gets versus what sage gets.

Not to mention in the trailer itself it showed that Fey blessing no longer costs Fae Gauge.

So no. They made their stance firm. They do not want to bring the classes back to heavensward level complexity. What scholar was shown to get may not be what you personally wanted, but other then the vagueness of the adjustments and whether or not sch will provide more rdps then sage means that they are absolutely improving from 5.0.

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Pls weaving change for all healer were necessary and it took still ages for them too do it. And like i said movespeed tool will always be meh, in 99.9% of situations you only ever need 1 sprint and then there is gonna be downtime anyway for 50 years so its gonna be back up for the next mechanic were it does make it more easy too do.

SCH is still very powerful now and will be even better in EW.

It's just that the job is lame.
Very, very lame.

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Originally Posted by Raylazer11

So anyone else find this statement from Yoshi-p a tad.... unfounded?

or it it just me?

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They turned SCH from a combat medic to that guy in the platoon whose job is while in formation to sing cadence and get folks moving.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I'm not so sure about that. SCH still has fey union for example, in addition to regular fairy healing, which are very powerful tools for not minding the tank much. Just to use this one facet as an example.

Of course in an event like this they want to make sage look very cool, while SCH just has the same "old and boring" stuff, but it's not bad.

Though, again, if some want SCH to get an overhaul like SMN did, I can understand that too.

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The problem here is the tank can move too a bad spot making the line break and you are forced too apply it again. Sage just blasts and heals the tank anywere. Now the real question is has sage a tool like indo as ogcd if yes its the better sch if not you still have the astro using his 100 ogcds heals he has every min for free too top the party.

Why is everyone making fun of the extra movement speed? It'll be great when EW arrives you'll be able to get to the NPC that unlocks SGE faster than anyone else.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Pls weaving change for all healer were necessary and it took still ages for them too do it. And like i said movespeed tool will always be meh, in 99.9% of situations you only ever need 1 sprint and then there is gonna be downtime anyway for 50 years so its gonna be back up for the next mechanic were it does make it more easy too do.

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they stated that the sprint buff also mitigates damage so if you dont need it to sprint you can use it to mitigate damage.

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Originally Posted by Thyranne

Why is everyone making fun of the extra movement speed? It'll be great when EW arrives you'll be able to get to the NPC that unlocks SGE faster than anyone else.

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Strider Boots+Sprint+battle peloton will definitely be BIS for getting through the unlock quest.

SCH slide : play SAGE.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Like dont get me wrong but even in ultimates you almost never need 2 sprint in a row for mechanics and i dont think they gonna implement that for endwalker. so even with the mobility buffs its nice too have but you dont need it in anyway. I rather have a not shit ai fairy that also when you do dmg heals strong and consistant the maintank so you only need ogcds for the group. Like sage looks super stacked in comparison too sch, like having mike tyson on crack fight a 5 year old toddler. Its simply not fair.

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But, think back to O12S for a moment.

Could white mage clear it? Technically, yes.

But SCH and AST were able to do it with vastly more ease, and that fight alone pushed things towards a much harder exclusion of WHM even though SCH+AST was already considered the better combo at the time.

Mobility can be very powerful.

We can't possibly imagine anything beyond spamming healing and spamming damage. Welcome to the WHM trench, Scholar brethren. Trust me there's no leaving it. We've tried for over half a decade. *raises glass of hard liquor*

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

But, think back to O12S for a moment.

Could white mage clear it? Technically, yes.

But SCH and AST were able to do it with vastly more ease, and that fight alone pushed things towards a much harder exclusion of WHM even though SCH+AST was already considered the better combo at the time.

Mobility can be very powerful.

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Or it could be the reason they buffed astro to hell and beyond after ignoring it from the the start of the expansion until the end kefka a trend they do since all the expansion with astro. And then you have white mage getting absolutely nothing every expansion. The most mayor thing it got is was 15 seconds on assize and aggro reduce for heals. Also Lily’s we’re garbage in stormblood so whm got at least a ability to fight his mana stravation. Only saving grace was that astro sucked more.

They literally could have gave all of SMN DOT to SCH…I just… I just can’t..

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

they stated that the sprint buff also mitigates damage so if you dont need it to sprint you can use it to mitigate damage.

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So the job any meele and faster dps can do by pressing a button with I assume less cool down. And after the feint and addle change you don’t even need the dmg reduce. At this point everyone can reduce dmg. Big magic buster ? Addle and feint is the only thing you need for 99.9 % of the fights anyway and for the ultimates and savage we still have tank mitigation also physical range and soil being still the best skill cost too effectives wise.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

So the job any meele and faster dps can do by pressing a button with I assume less cool down. And after the feint and addle change you don’t even need the dmg reduce. At this point everyone can reduce dmg. Big magic buster ? Addle and feint is the only thing you need for 99.9 % of the fights anyway and for the ultimates and savage we still have tank mitigation also physical range and soil being still the best skill cost too effectives wise.

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And I still disagree with you I'm sorry. Just because it's something that is boring doesn't mean it completely lacks value. I could honestly care less about addle and feint being better in this context. The fact is that this is a cooldown which while has a niche effect that may not ever have a use, it still has a universally useful component to it that can be used in lieu of or in combination of other damage reduction abilities, and whether or not it matters to you personally it is still a potential edge sch might have over sge, which we wont be able to fully confirm until....wait for it...we see the tooltips.

This was a shameless cop out especially when there are years of documented healer grievances and resolutions offered by the healer player base that they could have taken more seriously into account.

I wonder if they honestly believe the addition of Sage would dampen the nth healer debacle in a row.

It didn’t. Sage is just a distraction from the everpresent and unaddressed core healer issues.

It hurt when they said there wasn't much they could do, but SCH still has a lot of bad lock-out problems with Dissipation vs. Fey Union vs. Seraph. Sometimes, you just even sit on full Fey Gauge because no one needs single target healing, but Fey Blessing is always on cooldown so it doesn't heal enough when you need AoE healing. This happens especially when things are going wrong, or in random parties in general.

They did add a mitigation buff AoE skill that also has a movement speed skill, but it's just.... eh...
Succor is still pretty mediocre too as a shield skill.
Supposedly though, there's a LOT more movement heavy mechanics (due to nearly all jobs getting some form of mobility skill), so mobility might be a huge thing in Endwalker where this skill will get a lot of value (whether because people need mobility or because you need to mitigate dmg).

I'm sorta expecting an encounter design adjustment here because of the number of mobility skills we got this expansion, so dodging and moving will be a pretty big core focus compared to previous expansions. Even reaper has a couple of dash-teleport mechanics, and Ninja got an extra with Raiton-infused weaponskill. Note: MNK has a dash but it's also conditional to moving around to party members or the enemy. That's pretty huge since it'll imply there will be moments where MNK will have to rely on others to reposition for uptime as a melee DPS. Sage having a dash would also imply healers will be moving a lot more than before too.

Still... I'll just go unlock Sage, maybe play the other healers, then go tank/DPS. SMN, MNK, Sage and Reaper definitely looking way more fun at the moment.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

It hurt when they said there wasn't much they could do, but SCH still has a lot of bad lock-out problems with Dissipation vs. Fey Union vs. Seraph. Sometimes, you just even sit on full Fey Gauge because no one needs single target healing, but Fey Blessing is always on cooldown so it doesn't heal enough when you need AoE healing. This happens especially when things are going wrong, or in random parties in general.

They did add a mitigation buff AoE skill that also has a movement speed skill, but it's just.... eh...
Succor is still pretty mediocre too as a shield skill.
Supposedly though, there's a LOT more movement heavy mechanics (due to nearly all jobs getting some form of mobility skill), so mobility might be a huge thing in Endwalker where this skill will get a lot of value (whether because people need mobility or because you need to mitigate dmg).

I'm sorta expecting an encounter design adjustment here because of the number of mobility skills we got this expansion, so dodging and moving will be a pretty big core focus compared to previous expansions. Even reaper has a couple of dash-teleport mechanics, and Ninja got an extra with Raiton-infused weaponskill. Note: MNK has a dash but it's also conditional to moving around to party members or the enemy. That's pretty huge since it'll imply there will be moments where MNK will have to rely on others to reposition for uptime as a melee DPS. Sage having a dash would also imply healers will be moving a lot more than before too.

Still... I'll just go unlock Sage, maybe play the other healers, then go tank/DPS. SMN, MNK, Sage and Reaper definitely looking way more fun at the moment.

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Even if what you say pans out, the only Jobs that will benefit from the SCH movement buff will be MCH (gave its dash to its robot what a nice MCH) WHM AST and SCH, feels like to me they should have just given them all a dash instead if "movement heavy" fights really are in our future. I suppose we'll see how this all pans out but I'm not feeling optimistic to put it lightly.

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Originally Posted by Alpheus

Even if what you say pans out, the only Jobs that will benefit from the SCH movement buff will be MCH (gave its dash to its robot what a nice MCH) WHM AST and SCH, feels like to me they should have just given them all a dash instead if "movement heavy" fights really are in our future. I suppose we'll see how this all pans out but I'm not feeling optimistic to put it lightly.

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Yeah, this is where I'm sorta skeptical. Are there specific party members that aren't targeted for heavy movement mechanics, so players will have to adjust on a case-by-case basis? How often will sprint be used? I figure healers will lose uptime somewhere here. Outgoing unavoidable damage has to be high enough / frequent enough to necessitate shields, or players have must have some trouble avoiding lots of dodgeable AoEs that start necessitating shields when healers cannot hardcast.

The only difference I noticed for Endwalker SCH was that the faerie skills seem to cast a lot faster than currently. However we also don't see the Fey Gauge being consumed whenever they cast Fey Blessing. Neither did the Faerie use Fey Blessing between Embraces, so... I can't tell if it truly did become less clunky or not.

Not every ability is going to be valued by every player group the same. While in high end groups an in combat speed boost is redundant, it adds value to sage in public groups by allowing them to assist teammates with less mastery over mobility.

It is a lovely ability and while I think it makes more sense in BRD, it adds value to SCH and fits well into their toolbox identity, and SCH is still powerful. The problem is more SCH has a lot of jank that makes the job... unpeasant and this is totally insufficient to make the job interesting based on what we have seen, and we really needed to hear about QOL fixes more than anything else.

I cant seem to find anything - was there any mentioned or implied improvement in faerie AI?

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

I disagree. I know all you negative Nancy's are burnt out and all. But like it or not they did mention a few things.

Broil will have a cast time reduction meaning that it's much easier to command the faeries actions and weave your actions.

They made passing mention to adjustments to their shielding values and the pet ai. While we ofc do not know what this means yet that means they are at least acknowledging that people are complaining about the pets ghosting and the shielding being anaemic.

the fact they've set up SCH to be the "utility" of the shield healers with them having Chain Stratagem and the new Damage Reduction/Movement Speed cooldown. What will ultimately determine this assessment will be what the 'single target buff' it gets versus what sage gets.

Not to mention in the trailer itself it showed that Fey blessing no longer costs Fae Gauge.

So no. They made their stance firm. They do not want to bring the classes back to heavensward level complexity. What scholar was shown to get may not be what you personally wanted, but other then the vagueness of the adjustments and whether or not sch will provide more rdps then sage means that they are absolutely improving from 5.0.

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I mean, it is unfounded, because there is a lot they could have done with SCH. There's been 3 years worth of feedback on what they could do with SCH.

The issue of course is they're not improving on the areas of complaint. Not all of the feedback was for a 3.0 or 2.0 SCH, even if it's what I personality wanted, even some of my own feedback has taken into consideration they want to move on from that. Heck, a couple of ideas I had posted before are on Sage.

The big problem that's going to carry over from 5.0 is downtime. I feel like if they announced that healing would be rebalanced so you're healing more and DPSing less even on lower end content then much of what people find boring will be alleviated.

Now, you could say "but maybe that's what they're gonna do" but be in the ShB I made the same point about the changes during that media tour and resided on the possibility they'd do that...but they kept consistent with their encounters. The only think they've said they'd do this is on high end content, which IMO is where it's less of an issue. They've not shown that there's going to be anything to improve the monotony of healer DPS, when you're running content where your DPSing 60% to 80% of the time, I'm just not seeing how they're improving the SCH experience.

Sage might be a saving grace because they said my magical words but...my concern is still that DPS monotony.

And there's plenty they can do there. It's not even complicated or complex. If anything it is more approachable than the ideal solution to this problem (which is a rebalance things to make healers well...heal).


And it surprises me when you can do 60% to 80% of a run DPSing where said DPS is dull as heck, that there's not much they can do. If healers are going to have more DPS focus, give more variety in DPS and loosen up some of the complexities on the healing side. To me if I'm not getting much use out of the majority of my toolkit, that's a design issue.

So apparently it was a mistranslation but a massive one.

But still, seeing the massive rework to summoner, how well Sage looks, and then that line?

It just smacks of incompetence.

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Originally Posted by PaulH

I cant seem to find anything - was there any mentioned or implied improvement in faerie AI?

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Yoshida mentioned updating the pet ai as "one of the few things we could do" to sch.

I played Scholar because weaving was interesting - I had to carefully think about when to heal, preferably going for bio refreshes. Every movement was calculated so I used up both weave windows.
Now all of this doesn't matter.

The quote won't age well. It's basically the polite 'Idgaf'.

Because obviously anyone with a brain still installed knows full well it isn't the case. They could have shored up some of the dead/redundant abilities. Or made it a little more entertaining in its role than paint drying on a wall. Which would have essentially been anything at all. Lol. At this point the job is abandonware comparatively.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

I disagree. I know all you negative Nancy's are burnt out and all. But like it or not they did mention a few things.

Broil will have a cast time reduction meaning that it's much easier to command the faeries actions and weave your actions.

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This is so huge for me.
I've loved playing AST, but have felt completely unable to play the other healers well because their weave game was so much more restrictive.
This change is really gonna open SCH back up for me and I'm actually quite excited for it.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

the fact they've set up SCH to be the "utility" of the shield healers with them having Chain Stratagem and the new Damage Reduction/Movement Speed cooldown. What will ultimately determine this assessment will be what the 'single target buff' it gets versus what sage gets.

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Half of the tactical theme of SCH used to be in move names (some of which didn't survive localization) so I think it's real cool to see that theme realized in their kits a little more ~