So I made a video about the unwritten rules and etiquette in JP DC.
https://youtu.be/ur8a32nY6s0
The reason I made this is because of the influx of new EN players as well as EN players that transfer from NA or EU to Elemental DC.
FFXIV has its own unique culture just like all games do, but this culture also differ region by region.
I want to open the discussion of how Elemental is a Japanese Data Centre with a majority of the player base being Japanese and the implications of what that means.
Let's Talk: EN players in JP data centre
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08-21-2021, 03:47 PMSaphyra_MorwynLet's Talk: EN players in JP data centre
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08-21-2021, 03:54 PMUvi_AUT
I watched the Video. To be honest, it mostly sound like a list of things you want the community to be and do, and not what the community actually is and does.
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08-21-2021, 05:30 PMNeoyoshi
I watched that video and aside from the language difference and how folk communicate- this was like a mirror image of what I see on the Gilgamesh server and on the aether datacenter.
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08-21-2021, 06:09 PMRanaku
Yeah, cause playing on a japanese datacenter is something NA players really want right?
You seriously think NA players or EU players will transfer to a JP datacenter? xD I don't think so and if so then just with world visits to look at it for a bit but they said already JP will be off the table for datacenter travel from EU and NA.
So dunno what the panic is about. I think NA has the biggest influx of new players and everyone wants to be there now to play with Asmongold etc. The only reason i could think of why NA players would go to Elemental would be to escape the streamers as a sort of digital refugees. -
08-21-2021, 06:30 PMTTiscancer
Other people? In MY MMO? THE NERVE!
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08-21-2021, 06:37 PMRanaku
To be honest what OP describes in his/her video is basically also the EU datacenter.
There is no shout/yell chat in hubs, not even for fc recruitment. Hunttrains wait for players to arrive, even in Eureka etc. players waited up to 10min for people to get to the notorious monsters back in the days. Players on EU also greet always others in dungeons. And heck in all the Dalriada runs i had in Bozja players on EU always waited for people to finish their cutscene and i had like 100+ runs...i am insane i know... -
08-21-2021, 07:26 PMJuun
All these things happen on the datacenter I play on too. And I play on NA servers, and reading the comments here it happens on other data centers too. So why does this have to be about JP exclusivly?
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08-21-2021, 07:30 PMRanakuTo be fair there are differences. When i played for a year on NA it was a little culture shock for me. Like in Eureka players pulled Notorious Monsters on sight, not waiting a single second for all the players on the way. That's something you would be flamed for on EU. Also look at the NA hub chat. It's full of shout chat trolls mostly. EU is really really quiet same as JP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juun
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08-21-2021, 07:38 PMJuunI cant say about Eureka as I havent done that content. But as for shout chat the server Im on I can sit in Limsa for hours and barely see any shouts aside from advertisements and an occasion peechat yell. Emotes tho I see lots of emotes if I were to scroll through the chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaku
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08-21-2021, 07:43 PMSotarisThose who live in Oceanic region might. They generally fall under EU region but has lower ping in the JP datacenters, that's why they are getting their own datacenter soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaku
Maybe on Shiva. On Zodiark we see shouts all the time and fc recruitment on the frequent (not to mention the RMT say and shouts).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaku
The rest I have nothing to object, it all true that i suppose EU is more friendly and non egotistical than some larger groups in NA. -
08-21-2021, 08:11 PMKurokaShiva as well, that and the spam around the teleport, 5 Bards playing at once etc... its why im only there as long as i have to lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Sotaris
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08-21-2021, 08:16 PMNaoki34
When you like Japanese and you learn the language, you have to practice it and video games are a method like any other, why does it shock you?
And then, if we have to wonder every time if people will like it, we might as well do nothing and stay with regrets. -
08-21-2021, 08:19 PMNetherealGrass is always greener on the other side. Aether is a shit hole imo, better than crystal though, been there done that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaku
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08-22-2021, 12:34 AMkaynide
On Tonberry and it's very quiet overall, albeit for a while Tonberry was kinda the unofficial Oceania server, so there's a fair mix of languages despite it being in the J-data center.
As for me, I rarely get RMT tells. Like it's been probably a year. And I seldom see /yell or /shout spam outside of events going on. It's mostly quiet outside of the obvious hub areas, and even then it's mostly /says.
The big thing is Tonn is almost always locked for new characters, so I guess any RMT sellers are quickly reported/booted and it takes a while for them to actually get a new character back in. -
08-22-2021, 10:20 AMItMe
As someone who started on Tonberry, just be courteous and flexible and you're fine.
Also, embrace macros <3 -
08-22-2021, 02:11 PMVyrerus
Only things that sound different are the shout chat thing, which is hard to imagine. The alliance B thing, which has been common knowledge for years. The {Doma Castle} play on words thing. And the thank yous to the teleporters/hunt leaders.
3 wipes to disband is something I've seen in PFs a lot here, too. I think most NA players look down on it though, as a sign of impatience. I know I do, as I've had tons of farm parties that wiped three times, but then went on to clear on later pulls, and after the first clear, whether it was supposed to be a farm or not, went on to farm consistently for several hours.
Nice vid though. Saphyra has a nice friendly voice :) -
08-22-2021, 03:34 PMRyuDragnierFor Eureka, we'd get a few calls to wait back when it was current content, and we would for the most part. But we'd also let people know "Hey, we're going to try spawning this" and often got a large train to go with us to do so. I'm not sure how it is these days, but back when it was current content, we'd try not to pull things like what you mentioned. Though about the shout chat, people in NA tend to try to say things to deal with the quiet and boredom usually in the maps. You'll get trolls in some maps, people reminiscing in others, and just idle chit chat in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaku
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08-22-2021, 04:42 PMMiaShino
Wait, wait.. wait have I entered the scary door again? Have I phased into other reality?
JP and NA datacenters are nothing alike from my experiences.
People on NA do not wait during hunt trains or fates (especially Odin). I can count on single hand the number of times someone actually waited.
I was told to get a faster PC because hunt targets were not loading in and the area was too congested for telewarps. This is engine issue not PC issue.. This was my second and last hunt train I participated in. Both were a mild disaster I do not wish to relive.
I had seen as have friends someone pull while sprouts are watching cutscenes. Heck! I just made several posts about this and there is one entire thread defending pulling during cutscenes right here on NA forums.
Clearing Savage with duty finder? That is a forlorn concept here yet is quite common on JP. It is actually used for farming. You can barely get a farming party that can clear on NA. Ferro had a huuuuuge rant about this recently.
Hardly anyone greets here. Many times I am eating food and still loading in and our silent tank bolts off without a word or their stance. No one says anything even when we do speak in the chat.
I am on Primal (NA) and see behavior that JP would consider very rude on regular basis.
You can read the JP forums if you understand the language for perspective, or Google translate though it is not very accurate. Compare ours to theirs.. It is easy to understand why someone stuck in NA may wish to play in JP even if they are English speaking.
B tank tanks, here on NA it is every tank tanks or does not tank then spin spin spin goes the boss. Especially World of Darkness, tanks love spinning the big doooom eyeball, I am unsure why. -
08-22-2021, 08:57 PMJuunYou have a complete opposite experience then me and Im on Primal.. My first hunt I joined I was told to wait and so we did. My friend even told me never to pull otherwise you get blacklisted.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaShino
Always get in Dungeons where we just wait for everyone to finish a cutscene. Tho a few odd one outs were in Alliance raids where one person likes to troll pull.
I always get greetings when joining content not a hallo (tab) to translate but just a greeting of any form of slang.
And lastely ever since I started to level my healer I was wondering why always, always its my teams tank thats the main tank. But because of this thread I realized its because I have always been in team B when I have healed. -
08-22-2021, 10:11 PMHysterior
From my experience with JP datacenter, main differences are:
- You usually do not do big pulls in dungeons
- There is usually only one accepted strat for each fight, that you need to be aware of. It will almost never change.
- People have better macros
- For loot PF, you sometimes need to request a weapon before joining
- Groups will never kick someone so will instead politely disband and reform without the bad element
- "JP only" is still a thing -
08-23-2021, 12:24 AMMiaShinoI see and read these things but it is not what I experience and am uncertain why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juun
Though it was not always this bad, twas much of the better when I first joined. I steadily convinced family members and friends to try playing FF14 and we are now a small group of almost twenty.
Many of this group have had similar bad experiences in sequence. I do not think I have ever once seen alliance B tank exclusively.
Can we phase into your reality please? I feel like we are playing a different game..
One of the last experiences friends had was being killed out of their cutscene in Toto because the tank pulled. No hello, no aoe as tank just silence then gg at the end.
I have not done the hunt train since but one of my first experiences with it involved a sassy lala telling everyone "you have to catch the football" because waiting two minutes was too long. Then something about "fake news". The two I joined were all early pulls and you had to hope you got there before the mob was dead. Maybe I need to join more? I do not exactly wish to. -
08-23-2021, 12:34 AMRyuDragnier
What time are you going through this stuff at? I have not seen any of this in Primal in a long long time.
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08-23-2021, 12:41 AMMicahZerrshiaidk what dc you were on, but I was in Eureka for hours, every day and nearly always had time to get to a NM before it was pulled. I could count the times I couldn't make it on one hand, even if I had to run all the way. Pulling early was considered a jerk thing to do here too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaku
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08-23-2021, 01:38 AMNiimuraI don't know what kind of experience you've been having but 90% of that video it's the same in Aether and Chaos DCs (the 2 where I most played).Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaShino
People always wait for hunt trains, in fact Aether even have daily cross-world hunting trains and cross-world linkshells for hunting, where everyone stands at the first zone for like 10-15 minutes before the train starts. I mean... you said you can count on single hand the number of times someone actually waited but then again you said "This was my second and last hunt train" later on, it doesnt look like you had enough experience with hunt trains in NA.
Sometimes there ARE some players who actually dont wait players viewing cutscenes, I agree, but they will always get called on for doing such a thing, and that's because the default for us its to always wait players to finish watching cutscenes, it doesnt matter if you're doing Sastasha or The Tower at Paradigm's Breach, more than 50% of the time someone will use the alliance chat to say that they have players watching cutscenes and then everyone wait for them (in light parties we wait without a word because we need everyone to complete).
You will not be greeted every time you do a duty, if you take that as offensive or rude I am not here to change your view on that. In my personal experience tho, 7 out of 10 times there is always a "hello" and "gg" message at the start and end of a duty. Personally I don't mind if they greet me or not, I've already forgot the name of everyone who greeted and didnt greet me yesterday for instance. Just remember that not everyone plays with PC (keyboard) and there are players of every age and social behaviours in game.
A few exceptions that I agree, alliance B being MT it is not a usual rule, and I believe that in World of Darkness you're having that problem because it is always full of sprouts and players who do not know how to tank properly (especially now with the new wave of players), spinning the boss is not a behaviour we do for fun.
Now to mention the video:
The 3 wipes = vote dismiss, this one will get you looked down because if you vote dismiss because of only 3 wipes you're pretty much losing everyone's time in there, there is no "holding players" in the duty, everyone is there out of their free will and wanting to complete the duty. I can understand party leaders in JP trying to be polite with this but for us this would just look like you're an impatient player or being salty.
I can see why JP do not like /yell and /shout and I find it weird, but I respect nonetheless.
I'm not here picking on you, I'm just in shock that your experience in NA is SO different from the one I have and I'm sure I'm not the only one here. -
08-23-2021, 05:03 AMTaleraRistain
I'm on Aether and it's the same as Nimura. I was just in Breach the other day and we got to the last boss and multiple people were like "cutscenes" "two in cutscenes" etc. Ironically the folks in their group were then like "Or they'll skip them lol" and we went ahead and proceeded. But there was no pressure to skip and since roulette curses me with that raid a lot lately, I can attest that we do try to wait. There was another instance in Bunker not too long back where this guy was just being an absolute turd about people watching cutscenes. Calling them weebs and saying they could watch at the inn and why should we wait for people who couldn't bother to do it before this point. He both got told off by half the raid in alliance chat and nobody would raise him when he died. Yeah, he got a carry on that fight, but the rest of the raid still enjoyed watching him floor tank and whine about it.
I see hunt trains wait all the time when I'm out gathering. We also waited all the time in Eureka. I remember the Cheer emotes were quite active when we were waiting for people to assemble. Do we have the jerk early pullers? Yes. Every server has bad eggs. But they usually get told off by more than one person for doing it.
Nimura is right that you won't be greeted every time. Like Nimura said, some may not have a keyboard. Some greet with an auto command and I have no issue with that. My default is "\o". Sometimes there isn't a greeting but we chat in other areas, too. Or just the "tyfp" "gg" at the end. There is usually at least that.
B being main tank was something I never heard of until people started talking about JP. Especially in WoD, it's either A or C since B means B's healers can't go into the belly on Cerberus since they have to babysit the tank. But generally it's kind of whoever wants the job and outside of a rare exception, all the tanks stay near each other so they can take over quickly if one goes down. It's only when someone wants to troll by starting a Provoke war from the other side that they spin the boss or a newbie that people try to help guide.
I've seen people try to throw up the vote dismiss after one wipe in PF groups, lol. Or even in alliance raids sometimes. Generally everyone is like "WTF" and "Leave if you're that impatient". Far more often after the one or two impatient ones have left, I see everyone else stubbornly staying like "We WILL pass this, or die trying". Even Aether does have a point where we'll toss in the towel and a vote dismiss goes through, but we definitely gave it our all before that. I do think that is a difference, though, because it is in our culture to not think as well of someone who gives up what we consider too easily. I *have* seen DF groups that want to keep going that will kick someone at their request who doesn't, though, so they don't get a penalty, but that's usually after a few tries.
I think it's fine if JP doesn't like shout or yell, but honestly it would be kind of boring and rather cold feeling without it on NA. But I come from old school MMOs where shout was our primary communication. And I don't really mind the content. There are people who advertise their clubs or FCs. Some of those are quite creative. There are actual conversations about things, or just general silliness as we wait for roulette. And what I like the most (at least on my server) is that if someone asks a question they get tons of people willing to give them the answer. Yeah, we get the occasional set of folks being snippy, but even then people tell them to take it to /tell. It's very rare we don't police ourselves in areas with high shout activity. When I go somewhere and see a lot of shout chat, it feels warm and alive and active for me. -
08-23-2021, 07:05 AMShironeko_Narunyan
Also, Elemental is pretty international. Of the three JP DCs, it's probably the "least Japanese".
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08-23-2021, 07:33 AMVyrerusHow often do you play on NA?Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaShino
I think some people took me saying Alliance B tanking is common knowledge as saying that we do that in NA. We don't, but we've known that JP do, since forever. In NA, it's usually a matter of, "Who wants to MT the most?" Some people who play tank here want to be the MT no matter what, so they fight for agro. Another very common thing to see though, is that no tank actually wants to MT. They just want a job that's easy to not die on, so they came tank. There's a ton of times in NA where tanks actively refuse to turn on their stance, and someone has to be goaded/forced into tanking. NAs are very tank reluctant, outside of tank mains, and NA tank mains are overzealous/competitive.
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People don't wait for normal fates, that's true. In Eureka though, they do. Especially nowadays that it's old and there's less people. It's generally a 2 minute from pop pull time, sometimes more if someone communicates that they're in a bad spot but on the way asap. It was a little different when it first came out, as many NAs like to leech, so poppers felt entitled to kill the NMs they'd spawned. But anytime an actual NM Train was organized, people would just follow the train leader's commands.
Hunts for NA have always had organization and wait times. There are selfish NA who solo pull or early pull though, purposefully to troll. However, load times for older PC rigs and PS4s without Solid State Drives sometimes cannot load into zones upon teleport, due to congestion. Sometimes loading in takes so long for older machines that making the pull time is impossible without inconveniencing hundreds of people. I gave up hunts when I was still on PS4 due to that.
If Saphyra meant 3 wipes and disband in a Raid Finder party... I guess that's more understandable. But everyone joined of their own volition, anyway, so it still sounds like impatience and failure to really analyze what's going wrong. Are there exceptions if the wipes are caused by disconnects at pivotal points?
Almost everyone greets in NA. We even have plenty of NA who get perturbed when people do not. -
08-23-2021, 10:22 AMSaphyra_MorwynHere, it's alliance A that goes into the belly while C takes care of the wolfsbanes. With this wave of new players though, WoD has started being a wipefest that some ppl try to avoid again.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaleraRistain
The 3 wipes disband thing applies in general but it's particularly noticeable when ppl do savage weekly reclears using Raid Finder.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaleraRistain
We post the macro, everyone calls out their positions, we attempt it once, twice, three times. Something is not clicking here when it's supposed to work like a well-oiled machine so we vote disband and regroup again with RF. I personally don't think it's about being impatient, because if it's a normal trial with first timers for example, we'll try to go until we clear for the sprouts. That's casual content though.
PF groups usually state how many wipes before they disband, this could be 3 or 5, or 3 before p2 in 12s and as many as it takes to clear after.
I can see a lot of it being due to cultural difference and that is partly why I made the video for new players who may never have to considered about this aspect of online gaming before.
Rather than pointing out what or "who" is making the mistakes, the Japanese would rather disband and reform. I'm not saying that this is a bad or a good thing, but it's a thing that is understandable from a cultural stand point, I think. Wipes caused by DCs usually don't count, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
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08-23-2021, 10:37 AMCaurcas
I generally don't wait for cutscenes if I am tanking, as they will be doing this content time and time again so enjoy the cs then start fighting whenever that's over.
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08-23-2021, 10:59 AMTaleraRistainA = adds, B = belly, C = chains for usQuote:
Originally Posted by Saphyra_Morwyn
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08-23-2021, 01:45 PMMiaShinoHmmm, it is most varied even for just myself. I try to play when it late because the experience is better then. Friends (I get many stories from them) play at times most random. The agreement is that prime hours 4 - 12pm EST. Weekends are not so good too.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuDragnier
Me and partner and family have had not the best time on NA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niimura
I probably do need more time with them. The first two experiences were so bad that I did not wish to try again. I did have smaller experience with hunts and forgot to remember. :( The smaller groups to kill single A or S rank were much nicer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niimura
Our luck seems bad with this, very very bad. It was not always this way when we first started playing this I will say but it did happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niimura
I was raised to greet in relaxed social situations so this is shock or was. In JP it is considered more disrespectful not to greet others even with simple bow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niimura
Ohhh perhaps aye but myself and family or friends do try to look for other sprouts. The last World of Darkness had only four new players and all three tanks were in ilvl 520 plus. They spun away though and died lots to doom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niimura
This is major point of contention between English and JP I feel. JP values efficiency and outcome more so three wipes is not efficient clear time anymore. Instead JP would prefer to try with new party instead of explaining in duty what each member could do better. In NA (I do not have EU experience) it is different how party finder and duty finder is used. JP duty finder is used for farm and clear which three wipes is not, that is practice so you use party finder. If NA adopted this there would be no mentors upset about fifty minute EX primals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niimura
I do not think you were, this was a friendly post to me! I am surprised too and upset for my friends because I promised them a fun experience. We do try to play together only now so it is not as bad anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niimura
I would like to reply to others but the post is already so darn long! I wish to give some JP perspective to NA, I feel it would help. Many things NA considers JP doing to be rude JP is not done out of malice or xenophobia. We have way of doing things that is proven working so they stick with that.
To answer one additional thing, I play mostly on the NA server Primal now because this is where I moved. JP would give high ping but I am almost willing to accept this. Covid and finances and family make moving back to JP difficult.
Edit; I messed up the quotes because I can be special at the times. -
08-24-2021, 01:25 PMVyrerusAnd when we were smarter/it was more current it was, ""All" DPS go into the belly." Tanks and Heals deal with Cerb/adds. When that used to be common, the stomachs would die so much more quickly. ABC strat is all people remember though, cause it's easy to remember. Which is kinda bad news if all of the bad DPS are in B. Though, at least as I remember it, there was more of a preference for ABC on Aether and an All DPS preference on Primal.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaleraRistain
I think it ultimately fell out of favor because only 8 people can actually enter... I think? Not sure (Always thought it was at least 12, having entered the belly and seen other people not in my party enter no problem). But even so, nowadays ABC gets employed, it always seems like people on NA don't actually want to go into the belly because of the DPS loss from shrinking. Or they just don't know. As helpful as the mnemonic is for divvying up duties, it doesn't explain the mechanics, heh. -
08-24-2021, 01:47 PMVyrerusTo be fair, even though we try to analyze what's going wrong here in NA, not a lot of folks are actually any good at fight analytics/also try to lie to deflect blame. Nobody likes responsibility, so a lot of times PUGs will weasel about until someone gets blamed(usually incorrectly) and is either kicked or leaves. Also a lot of people just leave if a mistake causes a wipe on first pull, citing that the party is a trap and not worth their time(though most leave no comment and just dip).Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphyra_Morwyn
But there's also plenty of times where we figure out what's wrong, and then correct for it, teaching someone in the process leading to success. Generally the first type of group I described explodes pretty early, within 1~5 pulls. The second type I describe might wipe for an entire lockout, but then go back in and win, and then start farming. I've personally had very good luck with the second type of group being what I find more often, though it might just be my memory discarding all of the bad parties I've joined, since they didn't last very long.
Generally, I think NA suffers from having a division when it comes to strategies employed. Over the years, many Youtubers have compiled strategies used by their personal groups to achieve victory. Some are safer/more consistent than others, while others seek to optimize DPS such that the fight ends as quickly as possible, making up for gear deficiency. This leads people to have not only preferred strategies, but preferred strategy makers. Other strategies develop inside the PUG community, that are commonly employed by PUGs who did the fight as early as possible. People join PFs only knowing one strat, and when the group isn't using it, a lot of people have problems adjusting, many even demanding that the other 7 people adopt the strategy they are comfortable with.
This rudeness is actually quite hilarious when one such person joins a static PF for a clear or reclear. Many NA do not read PFs, because reading might make them miss getting into the party... this extends through any type of content put into the PF. They look at the duty name only. So these types of people join, complain, cause problems, and then insult the group because they had the audacity to tell them where and how they're needed in the group's strategy.
It's a wonderful mess! (^-^) -
02-17-2022, 05:59 AMaschdearIf you play in JP data center, you would know that it is what the community actually is and does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uvi_AUT
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02-17-2022, 09:15 AMTaleraRistainHoly necro thread, but since someone else necro'd it, I'll say on this that a lot of the time on Aether everyone and their brother wants to go into the belly now and nobody wants to do adds. I've found myself tanking them a lot as either a healer or dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
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02-17-2022, 11:09 AMkaynidehttps://i.imgur.com/iMjVoML.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by aschdear