Autocompletion of Synths NO RISK!?!?

Not sure if they meant for this to be able to happen but this would present an opening for craft bots to reemerge.

Piece by Piece (+30 Progress) 45 Armorer

By the Book (+30 Progress) 45 Goldsmith

Grand Design (+20 Progress) 30 Weaver

Tricks of the Trade (+20 Progress) 30 Alchemist

Unerring Hand (+20 Progress) 30 Woodworking

So what I am seeing is 2 crafts to 45 and 2 to 30 and you can auto-complete your way through all the rest of the crafts (including the remainder of those classes) without EVER failing or even losing a point of durability when/if you get the other crafts to a point where they can seat 4 actions...difficulty would be non-existent.

I don't see this as an issue you need to level multiple class to even beable to do this.

Fact is you can't stop people who bot and you shouldn't punish those who don't bot, SE seem pretty care free about bots and RMT anyway so your thread will be falling on deaf ears.

It's worth mentioning that this would give no bonus XP and would only be useful for mass production of base materials and in that case hasty hand is probably a better choice anyway.

Because we are moving away from completing a synth toward HQ a synth. Also the description of Hasty Hand does make you believe that if your level is equal or higher than recipe level its 100% guarantee now.

that, and completing a synth with 0 quality is 0% increase in exp so you would be getting 200-1000 exp instead of 500-3000 exp per synth

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I don't see this as an issue you need to level multiple class to even beable to do this.

Fact is you can't stop people who bot and you shouldn't punish those who don't bot, SE seem pretty care free about bots and RMT anyway so your thread will be falling on deaf ears.

It's worth mentioning that this would give no bonus XP and would only be useful for mass production of base materials and in that case hasty hand is probably a better choice anyway.

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100% completion rate of items 10 levels higher than you is not an issue? Because that would not net you any XP at all? Seems to me it is more a means of dumbing down a system that was already fairly easy but only required time. Hasty Handing even or lower level synths is not my real concern here. It would take 6x longer and 6x materials to accomplish it. That makes it a poor way to level especially given the half XP gains. If people are not going to take the time to level then just make them 50 or eliminate the leveling system for it all together.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

Because we are moving away from completing a synth toward HQ a synth. Also the description of Hasty Hand does make you believe that if your level is equal or higher than recipe level its 100% guarantee now.

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HQing is still possible with all +1 mats...just no chance of failure with these skills. Again, Hasty Hand is half XP regardless of synth level so using it to level just means a hell of a lot more gathering. 100% success on an even level synth would net 125 XP (250 XP) even if they removed the half XP). This is a far cry from the 750-800 XP gains of synths 10 levels higher than you.

Overall I see this as a method of encouraging people to do something they had no interest in in the first place. That is just going to lead to some leveling it for no purpose but most will still ignore it. The economy gurus are going to go ape shit over this once the prices drop out from under anything crafted. We just need gathering dumbed down to pushing 3 buttons and you are 50 and then easy mode will be complete. Soon the question will not be "Do you have X Craft to 50?" it will be "How come you don't have X craft to 50 yet?".

To me, if someone has taken the time to level up those crafts, they should have those choices to reduce failing a synth.

And if the vision for XP for war/magic classes was to keep the XP the same, then by design, the crafting side o' things should share a similar scale/speed.

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Originally Posted by Green_and_a_Half

that, and completing a synth with 0 quality is 0% increase in exp so you would be getting 200-1000 exp instead of 500-3000 exp per synth

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3-5 times more crafting done in the same amount of time. XP gains would be the same or better just more mats required. The difference is no chance of failure. Boosting quality comes with inherent risks of popping elements that would greatly reduce the amount of XP gained. No chance of that with auto-completing. Crafting over your level also carries with it built in difficulty so you getting 3k all the time would not be possible. Auto-completing does not carry that same burden XP would be the same all the time with no chance or deviating. The only thinking that needs to be done is how easy/hard is it to get the recipe ingredients.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

To me, if someone has taken the time to level up those crafts, they should have those choices to reduce failing a synth.

And if the vision for XP for war/magic classes was to keep the XP the same, then by design, the crafting side o' things should share a similar scale/speed.

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It is not the reduction of risk...it is the elimination of risk. Leveling my Conjurer to 50 did not auto kill everything for my Gladiator when I leveled it. It made it easier with Cure, Protect and Stoneskin sure but it did not level itself.

People can use craft bots regardless. But yeah i did mention this technique in the other thread.

I haven't crafted since the patch hit, but did they change how Grand Design works? I know that, before, it could fail to activate.

If you want to expend triple the amount of mats and shards then by all means knock yourself out. After realizing this I still have no intention of grinding crafts like that when I can instead use a combination of abilities that significantly reduce my chances of failure and increase quality while gaining 2000+ experience points per synth.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

If you want to expend triple the amount of mats and shards then by all means knock yourself out. After realizing this I still have no intention of grinding crafts like that when I can instead use a combination of abilities that significantly reduce my chances of failure and increase quality while gaining 2000+ experience points per synth.

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That's true, but it also takes like 2-3x as long (time wise) per synth when buffing quality. And for people like me that level only on leves, materials are a non issue. Plus, lower quality means more leves need to be done in the end so you get your leve count for the achievements higher :D

This setup works wonderfully for hamlet defense btw.

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Originally Posted by tymora

This setup works wonderfully for hamlet defense btw.

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Too bad hamlet doesn't give XP for crafting :(

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Originally Posted by Mortikhan

Not sure if they meant for this to be able to happen but this would present an opening for craft bots to reemerge.

Piece by Piece (+30 Progress) 45 Armorer

By the Book (+30 Progress) 45 Goldsmith

Grand Design (+20 Progress) 30 Weaver

Tricks of the Trade (+20 Progress) 30 Alchemist

Unerring Hand (+20 Progress) 30 Woodworking

So what I am seeing is 2 crafts to 45 and 2 to 30 and you can auto-complete your way through all the rest of the crafts (including the remainder of those classes) without EVER failing or even losing a point of durability when/if you get the other crafts to a point where they can seat 4 actions...difficulty would be non-existent.

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Who was failing these NQ, xp grind synths anyway?... Yes, if you level those FIVE jobs to those MED/HIGH levels, you can use those abilities to slowly grind thru the rest with no XP bonus whatsoever. You'll also use 6x the mats, which would cost "bots" 6x as much money or farming to level up. If anyone is actually dumb or rich enough to do that, so be it. What's the problem? With the XP bonus for quality you get now, there's no point whatsoever in botting or rushing synths. As far as there being "NO RISK?!?!".. before this patch you could just use HotG (ONE level 36 ability), and spam Standard and would break maybe 1/20 synths on a bad day. If there was a reduction in risk, it went from <5% to 0%. And that's only if you use this "new" (and also counterproductive) method. If anyone is breaking a lot on level up synths, they need better gear.

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Originally Posted by tymora

This setup works wonderfully for hamlet defense btw.

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+1 to this sir

Greater Calling/Comfort Zone with 3 x Standard/Rapid will net you a free 45 to 60% progress as well, can replace one or two of the above.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

If you want to expend triple the amount of mats and shards then by all means knock yourself out. After realizing this I still have no intention of grinding crafts like that when I can instead use a combination of abilities that significantly reduce my chances of failure and increase quality while gaining 2000+ experience points per synth.

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People keep saying "reduce risk". You are eliminating risk...completely. Just spam Careful synth (not to mention having a spare skill to throw in there to make those turn out better). When you are just about to run out of durability just pop those four skills and poof you are allllll done. Like I said. No risk of failure at all.

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Originally Posted by Burrmanchu

Who was failing these NQ, xp grind synths anyway?... Yes, if you level those FIVE jobs to those MED/HIGH levels, you can use those abilities to slowly grind thru the rest with no XP bonus whatsoever. You'll also use 6x the mats, which would cost "bots" 6x as much money or farming to level up. If anyone is actually dumb or rich enough to do that, so be it. What's the problem? With the XP bonus for quality you get now, there's no point whatsoever in botting or rushing synths. As far as there being "NO RISK?!?!".. before this patch you could just use HotG (ONE level 36 ability), and spam Standard and would break maybe 1/20 synths on a bad day. If there was a reduction in risk, it went from <5% to 0%. And that's only if you use this "new" (and also counterproductive) method. If anyone is breaking a lot on level up synths, they need better gear.

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Your last line said it all. You need better gear if failing. If there is no chance of failing why would you invest in better gear before 50? Same result with a level 1 tool as a level 48 tool on a 54 synth with NQ mats or a leve. I see lots of naked leve crafters in our future.

It is a tradeoff really.
You guarantee success with 0% quality gain. You will neither HQ for the most part, nor gain a lot of exp. AND, you need to level at least 4 different crafts to get this ability.

Thinking of it as a high level hasty hand, meant for use in hamlet defense, I am perfectly ok with such an elimination of risk.

Botters will bot regardless.

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Originally Posted by Mortikhan

People keep saying "reduce risk". You are eliminating risk...completely. Just spam Careful synth (not to mention having a spare skill to throw in there to make those turn out better). When you are just about to run out of durability just pop those four skills and poof you are allllll done. Like I said. No risk of failure at all.

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OR keep one of those skills, and a durability recovery skill, and use the other 3 slots for skills that actually increase your quality. I'm afraid simply spamming careful until you're in danger and then using those skills doesn't increase your quality nearly as much.

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Originally Posted by Mortikhan

Your last line said it all. You need better gear if failing. If there is no chance of failing why would you invest in better gear before 50? Same result with a level 1 tool as a level 48 tool on a 54 synth with NQ mats or a leve. I see lots of naked leve crafters in our future.

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Because better gear makes crafting easier, faster, helps with quality increase, and helps with elemental stabilization. These things give more experience rewards and help you craft faster and with less breaks. Once again, the only people using "A level 1 tool on level 48" would be the same people using the system you mentioned, which (once again) would make crafting take 3x as long and cost 6x as much. Your logic is backwards... Yes, they could use shit gear if they want to "Zero Risk" synth, but like I said, there would be no benefit from using that method... as it would take way longer to level and cost much, much more.

With the actions I have I can complete a synth in 4 actions AND get around 200 quality at minimum.

The XP bonus is a lot more time-efficient within the 200-300 quality range.

Either way, you need a couple fairly high level crafts to get the setup you describe, and someone that has them obviously put a lot of work into crafting and deserves the options to how they approach their synthing.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Either way, you need a couple fairly high level crafts to get the setup you describe, and someone that has them obviously put a lot of work into crafting and deserves the options to how they approach their synthing.

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Well said. Also I understand that 200-300 quality is easily done with new abilities, but as I understand it, the method the OP is saying could be used to exploit the system, would net no where near that amount of quality. In fact the quality would be zero. Unless HQ mats were used.