PVP is not that bad.

I never really done it, and I started playing it. And it is pretty fun. It needs more rewards for sure, and I understand that the hate from players when pvp gets cool rewards for top players.


The neglect to it is sad, I think it could very well be bigger than what it is. The community keeps saying how bad it is, but it sounds like it is just people jealous cause of the rewards.

The win trading and cheating needs to be looked into, and I think pvp can have a decent future in ff14.

It's not bad, but it's not good either.

It's pretty much "Meh"

And that's the problem.

I think thus video from Zepla summarize it very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNdH...hannel=ZeplaHQ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

It's not bad, but it's not good either.

It's pretty much "Meh"

And that's the problem.

---

That was what I was thinking. It's quite fortunate that most of the game's other content more than makes up for it.

FFXIV's PvP isn't the best, but it's about the only content in the game - other than HoH and POTD - that is genuinely different each time I run it.

I've done a lot of PvP over the years and wish it received more attention, more rewards and less temporary content.

The PvP here lacks a hook, it just exists for the sake of existing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardox

I think thus video from Zepla summarize it very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNdH...hannel=ZeplaHQ

---

Just got done watching it, and I think she is right. I mean it is not like omg amazing, but it is not OMG worse thing ever like the community says as well. It does need help though, as I don't think it can thrive being neglected like it is.

Something off about the whole heal side of it- time to death is all sorts of existent and non-existent, imo. At least when I played WoW and I think vs FFXIV. I don't recall as many moments where killing someone was as inconsistent lol. I do like that the abilities are separate though. Also some skills I think would make more sense if they just felt better to use, like Samurai's dash with smart MOBA keybinds would probably be more fun.

I think it's fun, though in the 1v1v1 maps sometimes I don't love the unpredictability. Maybe others like that uncertainty but I'd prefer to just lose or win based on which team was better lol.

On modes when playing WoW I remember so much warsong gulch, CTF CTF and more CTF lol. Or PvP mode they sort of have but I'm surprised Yoshida hasn't tried to take to 'the next level' is the huge scale super noisy fights like in Dark age of Camelot or perhaps some of GW2 world vs world moments.

I can say I don't like how a lot of the more particular reward systems function though. Feast top 100 reward system just seems.. 'ew' lol. I think perhaps the non-primary rewards to be brought more in line with the current token, could be the current token. Or might be something like points you earn based on number of wins and how late into the season (so joining late isn't a waste of time, but not so strong joining early is either, which is partly what # of wins does- currency to be spent on seasonal stuff, perhaps a rotation of past seasons unlocked at the same time, and then you can downgrade excess currency into wolf tokens). Then the primary rewards for feast would be based on a tournament system (scheduled / ranked fights, can have the CM live stream broadcast it- might not draw huge crowds but the people who win this won it and couldn't win trade it). Top three can win in game primary reward with the top 1 getting physical signed content from the FFXIV team or whatever. On another system of note I don't appreciate the achievement rewards dedicated to specific game modes since it can make completing those very difficult if you didn't do it when it was new. I think it would be more preferable to perhaps keep the titles but move the reward out to something more generic to a non-specific mode (win x, etc).

Maybe a little controversial but I think they should bring back gear with stats, not the purpose to be BiS for their ilvl but just to be another way players might gear up or have value in the system. Another might be, and purposefully make it not as fast as PvE, allow some progression on old relics. X tokens = completing a section of your sky book, or whatever.

I plan on doing some of it soon. I want to get a chest item for my Dragoon.

I want to glam her to look like this:

https://glamours.eorzeacollection.co...1624652907.png

No, it's absolutely horrifying. WoW's PvP has been neglected content for like 5 years, and it's still better than what FFXIV has to offer. They should just remove PvP entirely for the miniscule effort that is put into it.

the problem with PvP is that it's side content that a majority of the community actively avoids because the community is more for story/crafting/dressup then anything else, so it doesn't matter how "decent" the content really is.

Most of you just do not know how fun pvp used to be before the Stormblood changes. At least i played nothing else till they decided to listen to the people saying it is to hard. We had Games from 9 am till 4 am, pretty much all Day, especially when Feast became a thing. I remember how much fun i had doing pvp with Friends in premades. Mostly in Frontlines. Well, all we have left on the Frontline part is a mass BG with Characters that are balanced towards a 4v4 ranked mode that is only on for the first few weeks of its Season. Yes, Feast also died down a while after its Season start back then, but Frontlines pretty much opened all day.

Thanks to the vocal minority for ruining a Game Mode you did not even play, now they got their Wish and the result is a Moba with 5-10 skills that opens only at primetime.

I play other Stuff now on the side to have an appropiate pvp Experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TeraRamis

No, it's absolutely horrifying. WoW's PvP has been neglected content for like 5 years, and it's still better than what FFXIV has to offer. They should just remove PvP entirely for the miniscule effort that is put into it.

---

Er, WoW's pvp hasn't been neglected though? They have whole balance changes that only effect pvp, and make actual gear for it still rather than just one cosmetic once in a blue moon, as well as having tournaments.

PvP itself ain't bad.
The Ladderboard and reward structure on the other hand.
Most people don't even care about it once they find how the pvp is more about grinding than anything else, and the chances of getting something out of it are slime if non-existent.

Thus PvP became the meme content of this game, a recurrent joke - Like being designed from the mentality of hiper competitiveness on a community that doesn't exactly align with that profile.


It wanted to be an E-sport... Totally in touch with what the community of XIV wants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

FFXIV's PvP isn't the best, but it's about the only content in the game - other than HoH and POTD - that is genuinely different each time I run it.

I've done a lot of PvP over the years and wish it received more attention, more rewards and less temporary content.

---

^This. It's fun to run FL to burn time but I'm under no illusions as to its imperfections. I miss the old 24 man FL in all honesty, which would be better now with enforced freelancer...

Zelpha and Asmondgold make a video talking about it...suddenly its a topic on the Forums.
Like Clockwork.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Araxes

Most of you just do not know how fun pvp used to be before the Stormblood changes. At least i played nothing else till they decided to listen to the people saying it is to hard. We had Games from 9 am till 4 am, pretty much all Day, especially when Feast became a thing. I remember how much fun i had doing pvp with Friends in premades. Mostly in Frontlines. Well, all we have left on the Frontline part is a mass BG with Characters that are balanced towards a 4v4 ranked mode that is only on for the first few weeks of its Season. Yes, Feast also died down a while after its Season start back then, but Frontlines pretty much opened all day.

---

It would be a premade abuser that described pre-Stormblood Frontlines as "fun." It would be "fun" for the 6 to 8 players in the premade who could focus kill anyone they chose to the point that matches crashed from 72 players per match to 24 players per match.

It wasn't fun to be on the opposite side of you and your friends when you might be the only side with healers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Zelpha and Asmondgold make a video talking about it...suddenly its a topic on the Forums.
Like Clockwork.

---

So you saying you keep up with them? I just saw the video someone linked in it. Pvp has been talked about before they even started talking about it. But hey, if Asmon also talking about it. Might be hope for change in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

FFXIV's PvP isn't the best, but it's about the only content in the game - other than HoH and POTD - that is genuinely different each time I run it.

I've done a lot of PvP over the years and wish it received more attention, more rewards and less temporary content.

---

This game definitely needs more non-linear content, or content that lasts in general. PvP could be really good, I don't think SE really has a set direction for it. I'd like to see more investment from SE for sure. Hopefully that new small scale mode in EW is decent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by znushu

the problem with PvP is that it's side content that a majority of the community actively avoids because the community is more for story/crafting/dressup then anything else, so it doesn't matter how "decent" the content really is.

---

Thats just an indication of how popular....or more to the point, how unpopular..it is.

If no one wants to do it, then thats the playerbase decision.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Er, WoW's pvp hasn't been neglected though? They have whole balance changes that only effect pvp, and make actual gear for it still rather than just one cosmetic once in a blue moon, as well as having tournaments.

---

There is like a 85% difference between the top and bottom classes in WoW PVP and they haven't added any new maps in 5 years. Balance hasn't really been that great for a while. They had a gear vendor for the first part of this expac but then didn't do the same for 9.1. They had nothing for BFA.

PvP would be much better, if:

- healers werent overpowered. 1vs1 against a healer is impossible to win. In feast, nearly everything depends on the healer. It may be better if SE change the healer to a supporter (no heals, but buffs/debuffs).

- frontlines including 3 factions. Frontlines is purely luck right now. If you re lucky, its a easy win. If you re not, your teammates ignore objectives and by randomly attacking everything, you end up sandwich'ed by the other 2 factions... . It would be more fun, if you have only 2 factions (like in rival wings).

Frontlines...
They're not BAD, but getting 24 random strangers to cordinate and co-operate is near impossible.
And on maps other than the Borderland Ruins, there is elements of RNG involved with the objective spawns. The game can keep activating objectives near one side's spawn giving them an advantage over the other two as they have to overextend to get a chance at scoring.


I've found the best way to play them is go in as a healer, do my best to keep people alive and hope for a combination of good objective spawns and people who know how to play the frontline.

Honestly I think it's boring and outside of Feast which is usually dead or rigged with win trading, it's mostly just a game of "Well you're 1 person and we have 3, so you lose"

Not that there isn't any fun to be had in it, it's just kind of an eyeroll whenever 10 people jump on you because everyone decided to run away, but you can't really jump on a lone person because they take ages to kill and they might be able to run to a group of 5-10 people to get help before you can even manage to kill them, or god forbid they happen to be near a white mage because that's the only healing job that's actually decent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dogempire

Honestly I think it's boring and outside of Feast which is usually dead or rigged with win trading, it's mostly just a game of "Well you're 1 person and we have 3, so you lose"

Not that there isn't any fun to be had in it, it's just kind of an eyeroll whenever 10 people jump on you because everyone decided to run away, but you can't really jump on a lone person because they take ages to kill and they might be able to run to a group of 5-10 people to get help before you can even manage to kill them, or god forbid they happen to be near a white mage because that's the only healing job that's actually decent.

---

Or when you capture a lost point in Frontlines with a group of 5 people. Then, 4 people leaving as soon you captured the point. Seconds later, the point is lost again, because you cant defend it alone. So, the entire alliance is walking between 2 points, just to hold it for 2 seconds each. Brilliant!

Or when an objective is up on your side, but your team is busy to chase some random enemies. You just can sit there and watch how other factions just take it without any resistance.


If the latest gear wouldnt be so cool and the exp in Frontlines wouldnt be that good, I would skip PvP completely. As a player alone, you cant affect the match at no point. All you can do is praying.

Thanks all for your perspective. I can see why some don't like it. I'm weird in the way that winning or losing does not bother me. I just have fun, so frontline was just pick up play and have fun.


I guess from just playing stand point it is fun, but if you want to win...ya I could see why someone dislike this pvp system lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Thanks all for your perspective. I can see why some don't like it. I'm weird in the way that winning or losing does not bother me. I just have fun, so frontline was just pick up play and have fun.


I guess from just playing stand point it is fun, but if you want to win...ya I could see why someone dislike this pvp system lol.

---

Well, I wouldnt bother much, when not most achievements are tied to win a match. But thats just the minor part. The major part is, that its not about winning or losing. Its about why/how you win or lose.

I wouldnt complain, if the matches were less random or chaotic. Its just more fun, when everybody would work together and/or fight equal opponents. But the truth is, in the worst case 80% of your team are acting like bots. No communication, no playing the objectives, nothing. Just wandering around, chasing anything in sight. On the other side, sometimes it just feels like you re playing a solo mission with some random people, where all objectives are near your base and your enemies are trash mobs.

Neither way, you cant even have a fair match. Its either easy win or losing from start. But its not fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caitlyn

Well, I wouldnt bother much, when not most achievements are tied to win a match. But thats just the minor part. The major part is, that its not about winning or losing. Its about why/how you win or lose.

I wouldnt complain, if the matches were less random or chaotic. Its just more fun, when everybody would work together and/or fight equal opponents. But the truth is, in the worst case 80% of your team are acting like bots. No communication, no playing the objectives, nothing. Just wandering around, chasing anything in sight. On the other side, sometimes it just feels like you re playing a solo mission with some random people, where all objectives are near your base and your enemies are trash mobs.

Neither way, you cant even have a fair match. Its either easy win or losing from start. But its not fun.

---

I can see that. I also saw about the healer issue. Like, limit break+damage healers are gods. It reminds me of wow a little too much. I hate how tanky healers are in pvp.



I could see myself getting burnt out though, from a competitive stand point. Things need to be much more fair, and that would be more fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I can see that. I also saw about the healer issue. Like, limit break+damage healers are gods. It reminds me of wow a little too much. I hate how tanky healers are in pvp.

I could see myself getting burnt out though, from a competitive stand point. Things need to be much more fair, and that would be more fun.

---

The thing about healers is, that they play the most important part. People wont survive long, when there is no healing. Thats why many players are focusing the healer first, which put them in a very stressfull situation. So SE decided to make them more tanky, so they can focus more on healing other players. But this make them nearly impossible to kill, especially in a 1v1.

It would be better, to give everyone a selfheal (like the potion skill everyone haves), remove the healing ability from the healer and give it some buffs and debuffs. Healers can increase the defense or attack of their teammates, but are not the critical part of the group. When it comes to healing, everyone have to do it by themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caitlyn

Or when you capture a lost point in Frontlines with a group of 5 people. Then, 4 people leaving as soon you captured the point. Seconds later, the point is lost again, because you cant defend it alone. So, the entire alliance is walking between 2 points, just to hold it for 2 seconds each. Brilliant!

---

The Borderlands can be the most fun or infuriating because all 3 groups in your team gotta actual find an understanding on what is the tactic for that map.
The most common thing teams do is to rotate capture points, constantly ensuring each have 2 points and keep the score going although slow.
Another reason also tends to be that there is no timer visible for mid and not everybody keeps that in mind and try to not overstay the fights.

Also you only have 3 factions, while it happens that one of them clashes on defending/capturing a point, the one not doing the fight can take advantage and overwhelm other points or be ready for mid.

Another thing to watch out is the duration of fights, sometimes a single fight can take so long to the point of the drones respawning in mid.

And once again, it all depends on what your faction is going for as well as the enemies.
It is weird Borderlands does not have a timer like Rival Wings'train and mercenary though

It is not bad certainly not the most sought for & greatest ((more like 38/100 probably?)),

My personal dislike for it’s its pvp ability sector - I don’t like PvP “just abilities only”, why can’t we just solely use out PvE abilities?

Wish there were more battleground games; Skirmishes, alliance, 4 vs 4, capture the flag etc,.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vencio

It is not bad certainly not the most sought for & greatest ((more like 38/100 probably?)),

My personal dislike for it’s its pvp ability sector - I don’t like PvP “just abilities only”, why can’t we just solely use out PvE abilities?

Wish there were more battleground games; Skirmishes, alliance, 4 vs 4, capture the flag etc,.

---

It is because people lack the ability to understand their own job, lack ability to understand the mechanic, and too lazy to even bother with learn what other job is capable at.
Back in 2.4 PvP when job trait is a thing and Ninja has a trait to reduce 50% fallen damage.
Do you know how many people I can make them suicide each game in Shattered after bait them to chase my ninja?
10 to 15 per game and I have done that in entire Reborn period.

Even with current system, I still can see a lot of people are still clueless.

Say that to my face after I’ve spent all of Seal Rock day beating my face against my desk trying to help my friend get his 100 wins for the coat, OP. :P

When I’m not tunnel-visioning a goal that requires actually winning, I do find it kinda fun most of the time. I can’t speak for the Feast because I don’t play it, but the other modes I’ve got a fair bit of experience with from leveling and grinding Garo/mogtomes/marks. It’s just kind of clunky in some aspects and the experience of hoping your team has more than one shared braincell and the salt bogging up chat from completely unhelpful players make it an exercise in patience on some days, to put it lightly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caitlyn

PvP would be much better, if:

- healers werent overpowered. 1vs1 against a healer is impossible to win. In feast, nearly everything depends on the healer. It may be better if SE change the healer to a supporter (no heals, but buffs/debuffs).

- frontlines including 3 factions. Frontlines is purely luck right now. If you re lucky, its a easy win. If you re not, your teammates ignore objectives and by randomly attacking everything, you end up sandwich'ed by the other 2 factions... . It would be more fun, if you have only 2 factions (like in rival wings).

---

It is true for Seal Rock and Onsal Hakir they are mode that base on pure luck but it is different story with Secure and Shattered.
With proper harassing strategy it is possible to manipulate the outcome of these two modes.
I have developed a strategy mainly to make sure the GC I am harass (either alone or with a friend) will most likely end up at 3rd place
I am going to say result is better than I am expecting

It's terrible. The netcode in this game makes pvp literally impossible to be playable. Me on my screen is in a completely different location than me on your screen.

For me, the fundamental problem with FF14 PVP is that the PVP classes are, at best, tangentially related to their corresponding PVE classes. The benefit of not balancing PVE around PVP is real and correct, but the result is that I don't enjoy the PVP versions at all.

These days, I occasionally do the PVP roulette to get marks for glams, but I will go back to doing no PVP once I get any glams that I want.

(Also, WHM feels very OP to play :P)

Pvp is pretty fun when you basically play like 90% of your random team mates, not care about anything and just kill some players for fun.

When you try to get more into it the glaring flaws become rather obvious, it is pretty shallow since the rework with Stormblood.
It has a limited ability setup similar to MOBAs but unlike those games your abilities don't have a lot of impact, so most fights you end up just spamming buttons until something dies, which often can take ages. It also limits the amount of strategies you can come up with since your toolkit is so limited, which means most engagements just end up being giant zerg-fests.

PvP also shows the issues on a more technical side. You already have barely any crowd control effects and those that you have don't last very long. Now combine that with the server ticks and you're in for maximum frustration because if you try to interrupt a healer they will most likely have already finished their cast by the time the server registers that you stunned them, so now they sit at full HP and your measly 3 second stun isn't enough time to kill them, after which you have a healer that is stun immune for a while and you achieved exactly nothing.
The same however also applies to healing, I've had so many situations where I healed someone and they died anyway because the server took forever to register the heal.


And these are just the general issues I have with the job gameplay in pvp, add on top of that the lack of incentives, the 3 faction nonsense in frontlines, not having a Rival Wings roulette despite it being the vastly more interesting mode, the fact that you can end up with only 2 healers in a 24man party which basically makes you lose by default, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jettinson

The Borderlands can be the most fun or infuriating because all 3 groups in your team gotta actual find an understanding on what is the tactic for that map.
The most common thing teams do is to rotate capture points, constantly ensuring each have 2 points and keep the score going although slow.

---

The problem with Borderlands Ruins is that due to how the other Frontlines work and the increase in kill point rewards, map strategy has decayed to each GC forming a 24 player zerg that runs around capturing the nearest point controlled by another gc.

The original strategy for the map was:

• Party A - Contests the left control point. If they get pushed off the control point they go around to attack the left gc's primary control point.
• Party B - Kill the drones that spawn in mid. Protect the GC's primary control point. Supports Party A and Party C when they attempt to push the left and right control points.
• Party C - Contests the left control point. If they get pushed off the control point they go around to attack the left gc's primary control point.

This strategy is very solid if each GC is roughly equal in strength but breaks down if one GC is significantly more skilled or organized than the others.

Quote:

---

Another reason also tends to be that there is no timer visible for mid and not everybody keeps that in mind and try to not overstay the fights.

And once again, it all depends on what your faction is going for as well as the enemies.
It is weird Borderlands does not have a timer like Rival Wings'train and mercenary though

---

Borderlands ruins was the first Frontlines and the Central's respawn is actually based on when the last of the previous set was killed. It is the oldest map and the most primitive in many ways.