Why can't y'all remember noob vs newb/newbie

I'll admit, I'm autistic and awkward in that little things like the wrong terminology being used can drive me nuts. That said, I really wanted to try to bring this up as I'm trying to figure out why so many people keep using the wrong terms? It's incredibly important, especially when trying to talk with others. It's almost like using Chad and Karen interchangeably like they mean the same thing...

https://grammarist.com/new-words/new...-noob-or-n00b/

https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion...b-and-a-newbie

https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming...-word-origins/

https://www.forbes.com/2009/04/23/wo...h=d0c8c8e1aa04

So how many of you are/were unaware of the differences in meaning? Do you get irritated when people use the terms wrong?

Just because someones somewhere decided that the different spellings had meaning other than "this is how I like to spell it" doesn't mean people are using it "wrong".

Newbie=nub=noob=n00b

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Just because someones somewhere decided that the different spellings had meaning other than "this is how I like to spell it" doesn't mean people are using it "wrong".

Newbie=nub=noob=n00b

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Never was that way. It's like saying read = reed. Or tea = tee. Or pee = pea. Capital = capitol.

They are spelled different and are very different words. It always had different meanings. They still have different meanings. You'll even still see people use noob as an insult. But at the same time, go and use it in a friendly way for someone who just started the game. It's just ignorance I'd say overall. Though to be fair, it's done with words all the time. Such as people who can't tell the difference between there, their, and they're.

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Originally Posted by Dragonblanco

Never was that way. It's like saying read = reed. Or tea = tee. Or pee = pea. Capital = capitol.
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As someone who's been around since before the internet. Yes it is.

I have seen them being used interchangeably since people could send text.
Newbie always meant new person or suggesting inexperience. This turned into noob as people decided they didn't want to type 2 more characters. Then it was n00b to get around word filters or type in leetspeak. Then the final lazy nub.
It's not like they have grammatical roots. They're just words people made up to mean Newbie.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

As someone who's been around since before the internet. Yes it is.

I have seen them being used interchangeably since people could send text.
Newbie always meant new person or suggesting inexperience. This turned into noob as people decided they didn't want to type 2 more characters. Then it was n00b to get around word filters or type in leetspeak. Then the final lazy nub.
It's not like they have grammatical roots. They're just words people made up to mean Newbie.

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Well, I have a bunch of articles and forums posted for you to check out. See, opinions are like buttholes...we all have one. But facts are something you can't change just because you want to think or feel differently. I'm not a young person either, and have been into gaming and other circuits for quite some time. Newbie turned into newb when didn't want to type those 2 extra characters. People got tired of people who thought they knew everything but was wrong, such as you in this thread. We'd have people who would talk like they could hack a lot, were experts, etc but just talked out of their butts. When people tried to help them, they kept these inflated ego and weren't willing to learn or change. Thus where noob was used to differentiate.

What we can say is that languages are always alive and meanings change. And what we can also say is just because you've seen people use terms in the wrong way doesn't mean it was correct. We can have a bunch of people come in here and tell you that they were abducted by aliens, but would that make it true? Or if people all came in here and said you're a moron, does that mean it's right? So yeah, even saying "I've seen them being used interchangeably" doesn't mean anything opposite of what I said. It just means you're saying the problem has been ongoing on lots of people don't know the difference...which circles back around to my question of why people are misusing terms?

Want to know why? Because people just do not care. It could also be an generational thing also I grew up around each subset having a different use, purpose and or meaning but to say that is largely the norm for everyone is slightly disingenuous.

I agree I to am also on the spectrum and little things get me also but let us be real we are being mostly pedantic with our gripes when it comes to thing like this.

Yup, there sure are semantics going on here.

It's more worrying that people don't know the basics of grammar and which word means what (Seen people mix up waist and waste in game before), but lets go with one that's mainly heavily used in gaming situations.

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Originally Posted by Dragonblanco

Well, I have a bunch of articles and forums posted for you to check out.

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Starting any post like this feels really... cringy...

It reads like someone on facebook trying to force people into a lesson on what they think. *cough cough*

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Originally Posted by Dragonblanco

opinions are like buttholes...we all have one.

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This is your original post masterfully summed up.

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Originally Posted by Dragonblanco

. And what we can also say is just because you've seen people use terms in the wrong way doesn't mean it was correct

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Precisely what I said in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Dragonblanco

even saying "I've seen them being used interchangeably" doesn't mean anything opposite of what I said. It just means you're saying the problem has been ongoing on lots of people don't know the difference...which circles back around to my question of why people are misusing terms?

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Not" I've seen them being used interchangeably. ". I have watched their use branch and grow into what you call "definitions" now. Sure they might mean all that gobbledygook up there now because people have decided there's a difference, but in the way back when machine, that stuff is all the same and getting worked up over someone using the wrong "newb-nub-noob-n00b" and then comparing it to their-there-they're is pretty ridiculous.

Everyday someone takes a normal word and decides it means something else.

Ratchet
Drip
Bad
Cool

Sure.. language evolves. This doesn't mean though that people are using things "wrong". They're just working on their particular regions or circles definition. You wanna argue whether something is coke or pop or soda or sodapop or whatever.. I guess go ahead, but telling everyone else they're "wrong"is pretty pompous.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Yup, there sure are semantics going on here.

It's more worrying that people don't know the basics of grammar and which word means what (Seen people mix up waist and waste in game before), but lets go with one that's mainly heavily used in gaming situations.




Starting any post like this feels really... cringy...

It reads like someone on facebook trying to force people into a lesson on what they think. *cough cough*

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I keep trying to find balance. Others tell me I end up with a wall of text and all, so things often go unread. Other aspect, those links, were there just for people like the one who initially responded, who always want to go with personal feelings instead of facts. So if they feel it necessary, they look. Otherwise see the point I made that they are different and asking why. I thought I did good in keeping it short compared to my long typical comments, kind of got right to the point, etc.

Trying to force grammar onto slang is always going to be lost battle

Sorry to tell you, but we were using newb and noob back in EQ days and it just described a new person, whether they were obnoxious or not. We used n00b when we were being edgy. Just because someone decided to write some articles focusing on their preferred definition doesn't mean they're the definitive authority and everyone else is using it "wrong".

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Originally Posted by Dragonblanco

What we can say is that languages are always alive and meanings change. And what we can also say is just because you've seen people use terms in the wrong way doesn't mean it was correct. We can have a bunch of people come in here and tell you that they were abducted by aliens, but would that make it true?

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Language does evolve, and that's why there's no point arguing an old distinction between newbie and noob. They converged many moons ago.

And "falsely claiming something happened" has nothing to do with "using a word to mean something different to what it would in the past", so your example doesn't make sense.

If one person alone is using a word wrong so people don't understand what they mean, it's wrong.

If they use it in a new way that other people understand, it's an evolution of the word.

I would still personally make the distinction, but it's not worth arguing over the fact that other people don't see a difference in the terms, especially if it's clear from context what they mean.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Just because someones somewhere decided that the different spellings had meaning other than "this is how I like to spell it" doesn't mean people are using it "wrong".

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My made maid my bed.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

My made maid my bed.

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Both words that come from different roots entirely. Noob/nub/n00b/newb are all shortened slangs of Newbie.

Your point?

A key feature of languages is that words can easily change meaning and/or split depending on usage. Skirt and Shirt were once the same word. Shadow, shade, and shed were all once the same word. As a more recent example, Animé comes from Animation, being a reborrowing of the English word into Japanese as アニメーション, which was shortened to アニメ which yields the English word "Animé".

But despite "Anime" being derived from "Animation" incredibly recently, you don't generally use the word "Anime" in English to refer to Western Animation (which are usually called cartoons)-- it's used to refer exclusively to Eastern Animation.

Now, on to "Noob" vs "Newb"-- while both come from "Newbie", they have both acquired clear negative connotations due to their overuse as insults, with "Noob" being a more severe insult than "Newb", which is only slightly negative and can still be mostly neutral. "Newbie" on the other hand remains neutral to positive. Due to this differentiation in connotation, while it can be argued that "Noob", "Newb" and "Newbie" all refer to a general state of being new to something, they are not entirely interchangeable... at least in a broader internet context.

Nonetheless, due to the nature of slang and the internet at large, it's entirely possible that there are pockets of internet-space where the word "Noob" has yet to acquire a negative connotation. It's a distinction that's worth keeping in mind, but honestly being prescriptivist towards slang is a lost cause.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Both words that come from different roots entirely. Noob/nub/n00b/newb are all shortened slangs of Newbie.

Your point?

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My point was spelling does matter.
n00b and newbie hail from different parts too. You seemed to forget this while you didn't consider my point.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

My point was spelling does matter.
n00b and newbie hail from different parts too. You seemed to forget this while you didn't consider my point.

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Spelling matters when you are using homophones, yes. Great point. Nothing to do with what someone intends when spouting "newb" variants online. Spelling can change based on experience, region, age, game, the list goes on. They don't have actual defined meanings or complex linguistic roots. They mean what you mean them to mean and that can be generally extrapolated by context.
What "parts" do they hail from? What linguistic roots do they have besides leetspeak bastardization of English characters?

This is a manufactured pedantic circle-fluff.

I am a Aytbg
As yet to be great.

I don't think it makes any difference. I'm surprised how this is even a debate lol. A noob can be a newb and a newb can be a noob.

As someone whose been playing numerous mmos since... late 2000s? They are all used interchangeably. At least in the dozen or so MMOs I've played.

I agree that "newbie" and "noob" indicate rather different tones or attitudes, with "noob" typically being understood as a scornful or shameful term.

"Newbie" is like a bare statement of fact, it is someone who is new to the content. "Noob" comes with baggage, though. It implies a negative opinion of someone, however unstated. You could say "git gud noob," but I've never seen anyone ever say "git gud newbie." Likewise, you might see ads for FCs that openly welcome "newbies" or "new players," but I never see them offering an open palm toward "noobs." It is understood that this term holds a negative connotation.

I'm sure they get used interchangeably from time to time, though. It depends on the context. For example, someone might jokingly refer to themself as a noob if they're screwing up. Or if you call someone you're familiar with a noob, it can be understood as a friendly jab. But among strangers in Duty Finder, subtle differences can matter. You should not call someone you don't know a "noob." Them's fightin' words.

That said, I'm not sure how much of an issue this really is..? I haven't seen this happening, at least not in my experience. If someone is unironically tossing around "noob" as an insult in this day and age, wow -- they need to grow up. That's something a 13 year old would say, in like 1997. Next, they'll be claiming to be a "1337 h4x0r."

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

I'm sure they get used interchangeably from time to time, though. It depends on the context. For example, someone might jokingly refer to themself as a noob if they're screwing up. Or if you call someone you're familiar with a noob, it can be understood as a friendly jab. But among strangers in Duty Finder, subtle differences can matter. You should not call someone you don't know a "noob." Them's fightin' words.

That said, I'm not sure how much of an issue this really is..?

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The whole argument is kind of silly and moot anyway. We use sprouts more than anything.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The whole argument is kind of silly and moot anyway. We use sprouts more than anything.

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True! "Sprout" actually sounds like a term of endearment. The little leaf icon is so cute, too!

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The whole argument is kind of silly and moot anyway. We use sprouts more than anything.

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A bit of a tangent, but I love how our common game term's a generally highly positive thing. Like...

Noob - very negative
Newb - somewhat negative, can be neutral
Newbie - mostly neutral, can be contextually negative or positive
Novice - neutral
Sprout - generally very positive, occasionally neutral

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

That said, I'm not sure how much of an issue this really is..? I haven't seen this happening, at least not in my experience. If someone is unironically tossing around "noob" as an insult in this day and age, wow -- they need to grow up. That's something a 13 year old would say, in like 1997. Next, they'll be claiming to be a "1337 h4x0r."

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HA! Thank you! I just read through this thread and felt the entire thing to be a wee bit silly, and I kid you not, what you said here is EXACTLY what I was thinking too! Right down to the "1337 h4x0r", lol!

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Originally Posted by Vinupra-Rosa

But despite "Anime" being derived from "Animation" incredibly recently, you don't generally use the word "Anime" in English to refer to Western Animation (which are usually called cartoons)-- it's used to refer exclusively to Eastern Animation.

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Fun fact: In Japan, they do use the word Anime to refer to all cartoons, including western animation. It literally means "Cartoon".

I call them noobies.

American English versus British English is a thing; so why can't English versus Urban Dictionary be one as well? xD

Use of Chad is funny nowadays and if you know what it really means. Eww, person saying they are absolutely chad. Well be my quest lol

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Fun fact: In Japan, they do use the word Anime to refer to all cartoons, including western animation. It literally means "Cartoon".

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Yea, am aware of that. I was referring more to how the word is used in English.

Animé in English is an obvious loaning of Japanese アニメ which is a contraction of アニメーション which comes from the English word «Animation» --- but the word Animé as it is used in English has a very specific meaning that differs from even the Japanese usage of it.

An example closer to the whole "newbie" vs "noob" thing would be the case of the english word Fan.

Fan, in the sense of being "an admirer" ("I'm an FFXIV fan") comes from the word "fanatic", which has a much more severe meaning in the sense of "someone who is excessively obsessed". You can go say "I'm an FFXIV fan!" or "We are only fans of her work" but I doubt you'd be saying "I'm an FFXIV fanatic!" or "we are only fanatics of her work" unless... well, unless you are a fanatic.

It's a reverse of the "newbie" vs "noob" situation where the clipped form "noob" is seen as harsher/demeaning than the full form "newbie", whereas the clipped form "fan" is a generally neutral term to contrast to the full form "fanatic" which is perceived as unpleasant.

Why someone would get irritated when a word is used incorrectly, at least in their eyes, is baffling. I suppose the next thread will be the use of their, they're, there or you're and your. It's about context, especially on a gaming forum where there are people from various geographical locations. This isn't college, nor is it an office job where improper grammar could be noticed. If someone gets called 'a fkn noob' or 'a fkn newbie', the context will be the same, you're being called out. What it boils down to is, does the message come across? Simplicity at its finest.

Oh, and by the way, in link number two and paragraph number two, the person incorrectly spells the word doesn't. If someone is going to question the use of another's grammar on any level, you better get your spelling right...

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

Next, they'll be claiming to be a "1337 h4x0r."

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Hey, that used to be my password! lol. (Sadly, not joking).

To be honest, it first came up from someone shouting last month, "noob looking for FC." Then after kept seeing various people talk and kind of mixing on terms. It kind of started confusing me, especially when they didn't really say it with much context. "That guy is a noob." It's like, okay...how so?

And let's face it, in a game like this where profanity is against ToS, sometimes you have to result to things like "noob" instead of the real words you'd like to be calling them, lol. But I do still use newb/newbie or noob in original context. If person thinks they know everything and not open to learning, I'll call them a noob. If they pop into things just to cause arguments or whatever, I'll call them a troll. Like you said, a lot of that stuck with me from when I was that 11 year old or so around 1997. It's just language and culture that started then and still is within those of us in that age group still growing. Younger generation is creating their own terms, such as "Chad" and "Karen" in much the same way.

As to how much of an issue? I guess not a lot except for those moments of confusion for people. I mean, it sucks when you think you're helping a newb but instead find out you wasted your time with a noob. lol

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Originally Posted by Pirana1

Why someone would get irritated when a word is used incorrectly, at least in their eyes, is baffling. I suppose the next thread will be the use of their, they're, there or you're and your. It's about context, especially on a gaming forum where there are people from various geographical locations. This isn't college, nor is it an office job where improper grammar could be noticed. If someone gets called 'a fkn noob' or 'a fkn newbie', the context will be the same, you're being called out. What it boils down to is, does the message come across? Simplicity at its finest.

Oh, and by the way, in link number two and paragraph number two, the person incorrectly spells the word doesn't. If someone is going to question the use of another's grammar on any level, you better get your spelling right...

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I wasn't on it about grammar persay. I was going to say not on it at all but I know how people can nitpick on definitions and all. Mine is just on a specific word/phrase and its misuse.

And no, big difference. One is "hey new player" while the other is "hey moron." So just saying when we have people using a term that is defamatory towards newer players, especially people who are familiar with the original usage, it can cause issues.

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Originally Posted by Dragonblanco

I wasn't on it about grammar persay. I was going to say not on it at all but I know how people can nitpick on definitions and all. Mine is just on a specific word/phrase and its misuse.

And no, big difference. One is "hey new player" while the other is "hey moron." So just saying when we have people using a term that is defamatory towards newer players, especially people who are familiar with the original usage, it can cause issues.

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Incorrect. It's about the context and how the word was used. Which is why I phrased it the way I did. They both mean the same thing. This shouldn't be hard to understand.

Is it color or colour? Gray or grey? Donut or Doughnut? Collectable or collectible?

There simply are some words that you can spell differently.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Is it color or colour? Gray or grey? Donut or Doughnut? Collectable or collectible?

There simply are some words that you can spell differently.

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There are some things that you can spell differently but with same meaning, such as you just listed. Then you have things like newb and noob which would be like the examples I gave earlier. Capital vs capitol, wait vs weight, etc are some of the earlier examples I gave.

Noob and newb are homophones. "a word that sounds like another but has a different spelling and meaning (homophone)"

One has a positive or neutral meaning while the other is negative. Hence the topic, but somehow people are trying to go too deep into it. Not even here to argue darn it. Just asking why people can't get it right. Seems like the answers here is that people either don't care about language or haven't learned about it. Either way....it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Dragonblanco

I wasn't on it about grammar persay.

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That's per se. I wouldn't normally say anything at all, but the irony is towering over me, due to the topic/nature of this thread and the fact you've used a homophone that doesn't really exist.

Per se is Latin and means, "in and of itself" or "intrinsically".

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Originally Posted by Dragonblanco

Seems like the answers here is that people either don't care about language or haven't learned about it.

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I disagree; that's not the case at all, and it's a sweeping generalization that doesn't really apply. I've studied language all of my life, nearly 30 years in total after graduating high school, as an adult including college and independent study. I understand your point. However, I also think that evolution of language is quite beautiful, and the way this evolution occurs is via errors in grammar and communication. Those lead to pidgin and patois, which in turn can become new dialects.

You, yourself, made a grammatical error, yet I can see you both care about language and have learned something about it. I hope you can take that onboard.

On a tangent, did you know people said and used "aks" for much longer than we have been saying "ask"? Common errors can actually become the norm if repeated often enough. ... Eh, I digress, now I'm getting into Metathesis. Another topic for another time.

As for homophones, you can take an entire class in how misconstrued or incorrect homophone usage has given birth to some of the most interesting communication we have as humans. You do realize puns started this way, right? Had we never misconstrued homophones (intentionally or otherwise), many aspects of comedic communication simply wouldn't exist.

Language would be tres boring if every grammatical rule were followed 100% of the time. I promise you.

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Originally Posted by Breakbeat

That's per se. I wouldn't normally say anything at all, but the irony is towering over me, due to the topic/nature of this thread and the fact you've used a homophone that doesn't really exist.

Per se is Latin and means, "in and of itself" or "intrinsically".



I disagree; that's not the case at all, and it's a sweeping generalization that doesn't really apply. I've studied language all of my life, nearly 30 years in total after graduating high school, as an adult including college and independent study. I understand your point. However, I also think that evolution of language is quite beautiful, and the way this evolution occurs is via errors in grammar and communication. Those lead to pidgin and patois, which in turn can become new dialects.

You, yourself, made a grammatical error, yet I can see you both care about language and have learned something about it. I hope you can take that onboard.

On a tangent, did you know people said and used "aks" for much longer than we have been saying "ask"? Common errors can actually become the norm if repeated often enough. ... Eh, I digress, now I'm getting into Metathesis. Another topic for another time.

As for homophones, you can take an entire class in how misconstrued or incorrect homophone usage has given birth to some of the most interesting communication we have as humans. You do realize puns started this way, right? Had we never misconstrued homophones (intentionally or otherwise), many aspects of comedic communication simply wouldn't exist.

Language would be tres boring if every grammatical rule were followed 100% of the time. I promise you.

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Chances are you already know this (you did indicate it in your reply), but for those who don't know, here's a fun fact and an explanation:

In OE, the word that would become "Ask" had two variants. acs and asc. Conjugated to the infinitive, indicative 2nd person, and indicative plural, they are: acsian (ak-si-an) and ascian (as-chi-an), acsast (ac-sast) and ascast (as-casts), and acsiaþ (ak-si-ath) and asciaþ (as-chi-ath).

So in Old English, it's just as acceptable to "ax" a question as it is to "ask", and on top of that you can also "frain" if you so wish. In early to mid Middle English, "ax" remained a valid variant of "ask", and it was only in the latter half of Middle English that in the prestige dialect of English, "ax" (from acsian) was dropped and "ask" (from ascian) was kept as the valid word for "ask". "Frain"/"Frayne" (from Fregnan), a word that also means "ask" and is related to german "Fragen" fell out of use in Southern English (which gave rise to the standard) as well, and is mostly used nowadays in Scots and Northern English.

Fast forward to the future, and after the summary removal of "ax" from Prestige English as a variant of "ask", you have people re-developing an "aks" form from metathesis of "ask" --- this new "aks" is not directly descended from "acs(ian)" despite its similarities to middle english "ax", but is derived from the 'victorious' form "asc(ian)".

þū ascast mēc, hwār sindon cȳ mīn
þū acsast mēc, hwār sindon cȳ mīn
þū friġnest mēc, hwār sindon cȳ mīn

Either way, back to the point -- languages change, and... ah. I agree with you.

I said this before but it's kind of a futile effort to be prescriptivist towards slang, and it's best to simply take a descriptivist stance-- and as things stand, while there is a differentiation between "noob", "newb" and "newbie" in terms of severity (from most severe / offensive to least) it's still... slang, informal language. And as they are not formally codified (at least not yet) and taught, there's significant bleed in terms of meaning and context between them.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Want to know why? Because people just do not care.

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I am not even native English speaker and I do not feel like googling too hard atm.
But I'd see the root for all these variations (nub, noob, newb, etcetc) being just newbie/newcomer. Simple, right?
And then people have just done with the word what they do the best, shortening and/or stylizing it to fit whatever context/space/conversation/community the words had been brought into.
...Goodness this thread gives shivers by rousing some stupid memories from my GaiaOnline days. They liked to be very specific about newb =//= noob for some godforsaken reason.
Like, newb was much more wellmeaning title for someone who was just new to the forum, and noob was the annoying and loud and rude idiot new person to the forum. Like, devil is in the details at most.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

True! "Sprout" actually sounds like a term of endearment. The little leaf icon is so cute, too!

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SE was pretty clever in the icon and the term. It's a young plant and there's psychology there for people to want to protect and nurture young plants. And the cuteness of the icon makes it endearing.

It's the meme of the big guy in armor taking all the arrows for the smol with the wooden sword.

There are some people who are jerks to sprouts, but the community tends to come down pretty hard on that mentality.