Citations for Purported Echo Abilities

Are there any citations for the oft repeated "dungeon wipes are just Echo Visions"? Or for the "Echo lets you see AoEs" thing?

Those seem more like fan theories to me to explain game mechanics. Maybe in an interview they've off hand mentioned something but so far as I know, nothing in the game. And given we can see aoe markers when 'role playing' as npcs without the echo, and some aoe effects don't have ground markers but you're supposed toa void them by recognizing other patterns like boss animations etc, I don't think it's an actual lore thing.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Those seem more like fan theories to me to explain game mechanics.

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This was my assumption as well. The only explanation the AoE markers have ever been given that I can find was in the Hall of the Novice wherein it's explained that the PC is simply reading the enemy's tells, no Echo involved. And the dungeon wipes thing I've yet to really find any citations on, simply people repeating it as fact.

Simply wanted to know if anyone here knew of any proper sources.

For seeing the AoE markers, that was explained specifically in SB MSQ when Lyse is fighting someone with the echo.

The echo isn't involved with aoe markers or wipes I'm dungeons/trials. Aoe markers is just people noticing the enemy's tell and reacting to it (like the boss has their right hand up and will probably hit to their right side). Fordolas resonant does not allow her to see aoe markers but it does allow her to essentially predict the opponents next move since it was copied from krile who's echo allows her to see a person's intent

We currently have no explanation for wipes in lore but we can say for a fact it's not future vision echo since the only character we know in lore that has that is mikoto.

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Originally Posted by MercuryD

For seeing the AoE markers, that was explained specifically in SB MSQ when Lyse is fighting someone with the echo.

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Not really, it's mostly a thing that the fans ran with. What Y'shtola theorizes is that Fordola can read the enemy's intent with her Echo, basically by attuning herself to their aether and reacting appropriately, but this would be a more general prescience and not specifically about AoE markers. To put it in game terms, Fordola would get a 100% evade buff by knowing what her opponent will do before they do it. But this doesn't mean she sees the red circles or whatever, it means she can dodge any punch, sword, or knife sent her way.

It's easy to see where the mix-up happened, after all, that's a similar base for how we the PCs can see AoEs. Except hers involve ST and AoE abilities. Example: You cannot dodge a tank buster, but she could.

Basically, AoE markers are "Gameplay and Story Segregation", and the Hall of the Novice tell was a tongue-in-cheek way of explaining it to new players without having a character step beyond the "fourth wall" and explain mechanics like an old-school RPG.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Not really, it's mostly a thing that the fans ran with. What Y'shtola theorizes is that Fordola can read the enemy's intent with her Echo, basically by attuning herself to their aether and reacting appropriately, but this would be a more general prescience and not specifically about AoE markers. To put it in game terms, Fordola would get a 100% evade buff by knowing what her opponent will do before they do it. But this doesn't mean she sees the red circles or whatever, it means she can dodge any punch, sword, or knife sent her way.

It's easy to see where the mix-up happened, after all, that's a similar base for how we the PCs can see AoEs. Except hers involve ST and AoE abilities. Example: You cannot dodge a tank buster, but she could.

Basically, AoE markers are "Gameplay and Story Segregation", and the Hall of the Novice tell was a tongue-in-cheek way of explaining it to new players without having a character step beyond the "fourth wall" and explain mechanics like an old-school RPG.

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This. Also not all echo users have the same abilities exactly. Fordola's thing was unique and required Uriangr giving us a plot coupon to disrupt it.

These things are just game mechanics that don't need explanation. Just as there doesn't need to be an explanations for why we can do content more than once, or why I can't put on a fending helmet while carrying a bow etc.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

This was my assumption as well. The only explanation the AoE markers have ever been given that I can find was in the Hall of the Novice wherein it's explained that the PC is simply reading the enemy's tells, no Echo involved. And the dungeon wipes thing I've yet to really find any citations on, simply people repeating it as fact.

Simply wanted to know if anyone here knew of any proper sources.

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https://i.imgur.com/FwMuxuR.png

If you die in some trials and raids the game literally gives you a buff called 'The Echo'. If you wipe the echo kicks in, and the Warrior of Lights echo gives them visions, hence the whole "wipes are echo visions" thing.

I don't think it's technically canon, especially given as many of the fights where you can get it are basically fanon versions of events by various in-game characters, but it's not exactly pushing in the opposite direction to the lore either.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

https://i.imgur.com/FwMuxuR.png

If you die in some trials and raids the game literally gives you a buff called 'The Echo'. If you wipe the echo kicks in, and the Warrior of Lights echo gives them visions, hence the whole "wipes are echo visions" thing.

I don't think it's technically canon, especially given as many of the fights where you can get it are basically fanon versions of events by various in-game characters, but it's not exactly pushing in the opposite direction to the lore either.

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Again, gameplay and story segregation - it's a gameplay mechanic given a vague lore term simply to make it interesting but has absolutely zero connection to the actual narrative (it's also pretty telling that the 'Echo' buff was changed name wise to 'Brilliant Conviction' in many battles that had the mechanic, as if SE themselves are basically stating "uh, no, sorry guys, this actually has no connection to the Echo at all, sorry for misleading you"). Basically, it's just the game's way of saying "You're the Warrior of Light and you're going to kick ass here". ;)

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Originally Posted by Jandor

https://i.imgur.com/FwMuxuR.png

If you die in some trials and raids the game literally gives you a buff called 'The Echo'. If you wipe the echo kicks in, and the Warrior of Lights echo gives them visions, hence the whole "wipes are echo visions" thing.

I don't think it's technically canon, especially given as many of the fights where you can get it are basically fanon versions of events by various in-game characters, but it's not exactly pushing in the opposite direction to the lore either.

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This strikes me as more a gameplay mechanic with a bit of flavor than an actual lore thing.

Uhm, there's a few fights with the Scions... think it was Alphinaud at one point? They say something like, "I can sense the aether swelling. Get ready for an attack!" Then a group stack AOE marker goes out. So it's something that can be sense by people who can manipulate aether or any magitek device that detects aether as well, as far as AOE markers go.

The Gladiator questline has Aldis remark on, "watch how she fights; it's not exactly high theater." or something like that, so there's also the physical reading that we do.

As far as the Echo buff in combat goes, it's most comparable to the Blessing of Light received from Hydaelyn during the Ultima Weapon encounter. Basically, you're supposed to be destined to beat the fight, so your power swells up with the Echo. But this buff is also implemented by the devs on old raid content automatically without any wiping required for things like Binding Coil and Savage Alexander and such.

In theory, if we could control the Echo, then we could use it to view the past of our adversary to see exactly how they fight and to know all of their moves, since viewing the past is what our Echo does. Of course, not all of our adversaries are combat veterans, like Tsukuyomi, so it's not really for reading moves. I coulda sworn though, that there was an aspect to it that made Echo blessed individuals more proficient in combat. Better able to sense aether swells and things, maybe?

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Again, gameplay and story segregation - it's a gameplay mechanic given a vague lore term simply to make it interesting but has absolutely zero connection to the actual narrative (it's also pretty telling that the 'Echo' buff was changed name wise to 'Brilliant Conviction' in many battles that had the mechanic, as if SE themselves are basically stating "uh, no, sorry guys, this actually has no connection to the Echo at all, sorry for misleading you"). Basically, it's just the game's way of saying "You're the Warrior of Light and you're going to kick ass here". ;)

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

This strikes me as more a gameplay mechanic with a bit of flavor than an actual lore thing.

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I know it's primarily a gameplay thing guys, the OP asked if there was a citation & that's the closest thing I can think of to one.

I do enjoy that the devs give these sorts of things little fluff justifications though, it's not relevant to the main narrative and it's essentially not really important if it's actually canon or not, but it is nice for those that enjoy some sort of in world justification for the gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

This strikes me as more a gameplay mechanic with a bit of flavor than an actual lore thing.

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Seeing how the kinda made it a big deal that Mikoto was able to get a glimpse of the future with her echo I agree that its more a gameplay mechanic. Otherwise the WoL would have a much better future echo than anyone else which would make it even worse when we are taken down or react to slow to things.