Undercutting crafted items that are "game drop" is a waste of time and money!

When you look at the info window for a crafted item there will be a signature in the bottom left corner. That is (with some strange exceptions) the name of the crafter. If there are no signature then the item is a drop (most likely from a retainer doing quick exploration). Undercutting items that weren't crafted by a player is only driving the prices down. Let them sell, that player won't relist anytime soon, as he/she doesn't make it himself/herself. The reason the prices on so many items are so low is because your guys are fighting windmills, and that's not very productive. You have expenses to think about, not so those that sell items gotten by retainers. Every now and again it seems SE is changing the loot table for the retainers, so after a patch (minor or major) there will most likely be changes. Try finding something that isn't dropped by retainers in stead. That way you can actually make some money. I normally put those items that are dropped by retainer on a relatively high price and don't start crafting them before it sells at that price AND I don't find any without signature.

If you are desperate about making money, and have time to spend, sell items sold by vendors, for gil, people will buy iron ore and what not, that you can buy cheaply from NPC's.

Another, but far riskier way, is to buy up general-purpose dye on all servers in the data group and sell it at a higher price. If the dye is in high demand you will earn money doing it, but at times you can be stuck with large quantities.

And most important of all, don't list more than 1 or 2 of the same item at a time. Listing too many is a sure way to crash the market. Selling 1 item at 100k is better than 5 at 20k, because it saves you time, lets you put up a larger assortment of items, so you might actually sell 2 or 3 different items at a high price in stead of 5 or 6 of the same at a mediocre price. And never try to make and sell something that there already are more than 2 players crafting and selling, that only ends in a trade war.

I'm so pissed off. Summer Indigo Shirt... Used to go for 1,2mil steady on my server (indigo cloth around 320k gil each). Today I wake up, update prices.. guess what? I see 30+ Shirts on there going for sub 600k each because 5.55 released yesterday and the new dumbass relic content drops all the glamour items. WELL PLAYED SE, WELL PLAYED. Seriously who the fudge comes up with this stuff? Glamour items are oftenm the bread and butter for crafters since they always sell well. SE totally killed that off with their dumbass relic content. Bloody hell.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

I'm so pissed off. Summer Indigo Shirt... Used to go for 1,2mil steady on my server (indigo cloth around 320k gil each). Today I wake up, update prices.. guess what? I see 30+ Shirts on there going for sub 600k each because 5.55 released yesterday and the new dumbass relic content drops all the glamour items. WELL PLAYED SE, WELL PLAYED. Seriously who the fudge comes up with this stuff? Glamour items are oftenm the bread and butter for crafters since they always sell well. SE totally killed that off with their dumbass relic content. Bloody hell.

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I would suggest you look at some other content before you start blaming the relics fully.
The Firmiment also did this with the Moogle Lottery there. I remember there were a few items that you could make a decent amount of gil on that tanked hard because they added them in as prizes. The tomes as well have also tanked a few items.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Seriously who the fudge comes up with this stuff? Glamour items are oftenm the bread and butter for crafters since they always sell well. SE totally killed that off with their dumbass relic content. Bloody hell.

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Why are you surprised by this? SE turns older crafted stuff into drop all the time. It's how they get people to move on to new things while also keeping the prices of old item from skyrocketing after their content window has passed (old maps, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Infindox

I would suggest you look at some other content before you start blaming the relics fully.
The Firmiment also did this with the Moogle Lottery there. I remember there were a few items that you could make a decent amount of gil on that tanked hard because they added them in as prizes. The tomes as well have also tanked a few items.

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Yeah you are right, forgot about that. But it's all the same to me. Big mistake imo.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

Why are you surprised by this? SE turns older crafted stuff into drop all the time. It's how they get people to move on to new things while also keeping the prices of old item from skyrocketing after their content window has passed (old maps, etc.)

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The thing is that developers of an online game should never ever interfere with the games internal economy. If there are players that are willing to pay a high price, well then let them, and let the crafters that want to make them, make them, and earn gil doing so. There's also the problem that the drop rate on some (all?) items seems to be related to the amount on sale at the MB. This means that if an item drops in some way (retainers mostly), there is no use trying to buy them up, because the drop rate will just be turned up. Basically, in my opinion, SE are destroying the game for a large number of players, those that play the game mainly for gathering, crafting and trading. I don't know hoe large a percentage of the player base this is, but obviously not enough for them to care.

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Originally Posted by Angelhearth

The thing is that developers of an online game should never ever interfere with the games internal economy. .

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They have to interfere to keep the game user friendly for new players who join the game late. Newer players who can't afford items because sellers are pricing them for veteran players with loads of currency accumulated will quit when they can't get the items they feel need.

I have yet to play a MMO where the developers haven't interfered with the markets in one fashion or another to make certain new players don't feel left out. If you're playing to accumulate wealth, you're just going to have to work harder.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They have to interfere to keep the game user friendly for new players who join the game late. Newer players who can't afford items because sellers are pricing them for veteran players with loads of currency accumulated will quit when they can't get the items they feel need.

I have yet to play a MMO where the developers haven't interfered with the markets in one fashion or another to make certain new players don't feel left out. If you're playing to accumulate wealth, you're just going to have to work harder.

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You never played WoW? They never interfered until they started selling that gold thingy. Developers interfering with the in-game economy is sure to piss off more players than if they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Angelhearth

You never played WoW? They never interfered until [...]

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So... they did interfere then...

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Originally Posted by ItMe

So... they did interfere then...

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Different motivation. That was a pure money grab and had nothing to do with helping players out.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Different motivation. That was a pure money grab and had nothing to do with helping players out.

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This.

Blizz went after some of the RMT market share. screwed up the markets but players were never a big concern anyway.

Meanwhile me and my friends are celebrating the price drops and buying stuff for glamours we didn’t have before.

While it may upset you it brings joy to many others.

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Originally Posted by Angelhearth

The thing is that developers of an online game should never ever interfere with the games internal economy.

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The thing is, developers should never pay attention to the games internal economy when designing new items as rewards for current activity. That includes looking at "the market" to see how X will affect the price of Y.

Developers set a base for vendor-purchasable items and ignore the Market Board completely. To do otherwise is madness.

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Originally Posted by Angelhearth

You never played WoW? They never interfered until they started selling that gold thingy. Developers interfering with the in-game economy is sure to piss off more players than if they didn't.

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I did play WoW from mid BC to end of Legion. Blizzard was constantly interfering in ways you probably wouldn't recognize as interference either because it was part of their ongoing game design or other reasons were being given for the changes.

Changing drop rates or node yields interfered with sales on the AH. Changing the way stats worked interfered with sales of gear on the AH. Introducing heirlooms interfered with sales of gear on the AH. Restricting armor types to specific classes interfered with the sales of gear on the AH. Putting level caps ("this item has reduced/no effect for character over level 60/items over level 115") on use of enchants, gems and consumables interfered with sales of those items on the AH. Adding the disenchant roll option to dungeons when Dungeon Finder was introduced interfered with sales of enchants and enchanting mats on the AH.

I watched it all go down and saw how those changes plus many more affected the AH trends.

You want to know why the WoW token became a necessity to help keep new players from quitting the game within a few weeks of starting? Are you ready for this?

Transmog.

Veteran players were suddenly eager to get their hands on all those greens they had been ignoring since heirlooms were introduced in Wrath. What had been going for 20-30 silver suddenly shot up to 20-30 gold, or hundreds of gold in the cases of the "slut mog" items from the Vanilla levels (I can't complain, I had some no longer obtainable recipes for a few of those slut mog models, I got rich).

New players were relying on what had been cheap greens for their gear because the stat changes over the years had made the majority of quest rewards near useless if not completely useless. Now those cheap greens were prohibitively expensive for a new player starting out.

Blizzard for some strange reason thought new players would be happy to spend all their time trying to slowly level professions to make gold to buy gear they needed to level their class so they could level their professions farther to earn more gold they would need to get even better gear. Obviously it didn't work out because the majority of players don't pick up WoW to be a crafter with the limited time they have to play. They pick it up to "slay dargons [sic]", as a raiding friend of mine put it. New players couldn't make enough gold to buy the gear they needed to keep from being kicked from leveling dungeons. If other players aren't going to allow them to play the game because of things outside of their control, then there was no reason to stay.

Enter the WoW token so they had a way to get the gold they needed.

The interference was always there even if you didn't notice it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

They have to interfere to keep the game user friendly for new players who join the game late. Newer players who can't afford items because sellers are pricing them for veteran players with loads of currency accumulated will quit when they can't get the items they feel need.

I have yet to play a MMO where the developers haven't interfered with the markets in one fashion or another to make certain new players don't feel left out. If you're playing to accumulate wealth, you're just going to have to work harder.

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To be fair, you can "interfere" in a way that doesn't utterly destroy the market. Using the Summer Indigo Shirt for example sake. If it was a rare Bozja drop or needed a good chunk of platinum coins, you accomplish the same goal without making it dirt cheap.

This actually wouldn't be as big a problem for crafters if their own endgame recipes weren't nerfed into the ground this expansion. Alas, the devs are more concerned with making everything easier to obtain than providing a solid endgame for crafters. Yoshida has openly stated he doesn't like items being listed for super high prices.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

I would suggest you look at some other content before you start blaming the relics fully.
The Firmiment also did this with the Moogle Lottery there. I remember there were a few items that you could make a decent amount of gil on that tanked hard because they added them in as prizes. The tomes as well have also tanked a few items.

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Everything does it..

Moogles lottery thing.
Horde sacks from Palace of the dead /heaven on high.
Wanderlust tails rewards.
Retainer ventures.

All the same. Anything with any value gets absolutely destroyed. And it destroys contwntnin the process. Deep dungeons highlight this very well. For the first 2 maybe 3 days everyone's exploring every nook and cranny for every horde sacks they can get for rich valuable treasures.

Day 4 though the value of those treasures has absolutely tanked and forbthe rest of that contents life its just activate the portal and go go go getting the horde sacks is a waste ofntime because the markets have been so flooded you'll be lucky to get 500 gil for that cool primal weapon glamour or something such..

Content destroyed. Markets destroyed. And economy destroyed.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This actually wouldn't be as big a problem for crafters if their own endgame recipes weren't nerfed into the ground this expansion. Alas, the devs are more concerned with making everything easier to obtain than providing a solid endgame for crafters. Yoshida has openly stated he doesn't like items being listed for super high prices.

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I agree with him to a large extent. Commonly used items should be low in price so players can get them as needed, not to mention it can actually benefit sellers by creating more buyers. I got rich in WoW by making things affordable where other sellers were more concerned with making themselves rich. It was a fun game to play to tank their markets while getting more players buying the items in question than had been buying them at inflated prices.

You would think McDonalds, Walmart and similar companies would serve as an example of how to get rich - sell high volumes at still profitable prices almost everyone can afford instead of selling at high prices few are willing to pay even if they can afford them.

But there still needs to be those items that more expensive, either because of scarcity of materials or time investment to produce the item. A lot of players are subtly influenced by the prestige of owning such items. When it's too easy to get everything you want, a game can quickly get stale and boring.

If sellers don't like SE's interference with the current markets, they need to accept responsibility for the role they played in driving prices so high SE felt it necessary to step in. SE has to think of the needs of all players, not just the few players out to get rich on a virtual game currency.

I will say that the limit on marketboard listings does not help things. It stifles competition that would have naturally kept prices lower in the first place. That's on SE's head.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If sellers don't like SE's interference with the current markets, they need to accept responsibility for the role they played in driving prices so high SE felt it necessary to step in. SE has to think of the needs of all players, not just the few players out to get rich on a virtual game currency.

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Why? It's called supply and demand. There are usually only a hand full of players crafting certain items. Supply = low, price = high. Basic economics. All these items crashed now because of SE. Items that went for 1.5 mil are now going for 100k. Quaintrelle's Ruffled Skirt for example went for between 300-500k before it became a trash drop. Now it's going for 10k. Another destroyed item. I can go on. You know that indigo cloth is a rare drop right? It went from 300k to 50k within a few days. Again, I can go on. SE just destroys everything for crafters, EVERYTHING.

Edit: On the part of "SE has to think of the needs of all players" why are the coolest looking glamours locked behind pvp Feast wall only allowing 100 players per data server to flex it? Everyone knows Feast is just played by bots/cheaters/wintraders/hermits.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Different motivation. That was a pure money grab and had nothing to do with helping players out.

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They did quite a few AH tweaks and killed the mobile AH to try to run off bots.

Crafted items were and still aren't a good source of income there. Raw materials are.

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Originally Posted by Imora

Crafted items were and still aren't a good source of income there. Raw materials are.

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Never were. Only consumables and the mats to craft consumables. The only gear bought off the AH was maybe resistance gear back in the classic days. And even most of those were crafted by guilds.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Never were. Only consumables and the mats to craft consumables. The only gear bought off the AH was maybe resistance gear back in the classic days. And even most of those were crafted by guilds.

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Yeah, herbs and ore land leather. Legendary crafting made some people money early on but ranking up your crafting for them only to sell for mats cost is a waste of gold

Items are not being sold for mats cost, they are being sold for substantially less. The rate at which prices are falling on hundreds of items is to the point that it's not even profitable to buy and desynth the items, because when you list the mats at a profit, more flood the market within days.

The only things that remain profitable, so far, are items which only drop from treasure hunts, etc. (i.e. Dress Material). Outside of that, there is next to no profit in crafting/gathering anymore.

Even with desynthesis it's just a matter of weeks or a couple months at the rate things are going before there's no profit in that.

Unfortunately, S.E. has made crafting so easy they might as well just start everyone at level 80.

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Originally Posted by Nythia

Items are not being sold for mats cost, they are being sold for substantially less. The rate at which prices are falling on hundreds of items is to the point that it's not even profitable to buy and desynth the items, because when you list the mats at a profit, more flood the market within days.

The only things that remain profitable, so far, are items which only drop from treasure hunts, etc. (i.e. Dress Material). Outside of that, there is next to no profit in crafting/gathering anymore.

Even with desynthesis it's just a matter of weeks or a couple months at the rate things are going before there's no profit in that.

Unfortunately, S.E. has made crafting so easy they might as well just start everyone at level 80.

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Even map items sell bad because bots have taken over map farming. Crafting in general is a sinking shit. Just abandon it. Move on to pve or a different game. Crafting/trading is dead

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Even map items sell bad because bots have taken over map farming. Crafting in general is a sinking shit. Just abandon it. Move on to pve or a different game. Crafting/trading is dead

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To you perhaps. I'm still making gil on all my characters via crafting and sometimes gathering. It may be for smaller amounts than in the past but it's still profit that adds up well over time.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

To you perhaps. I'm still making gil on all my characters via crafting and sometimes gathering. It may be for smaller amounts than in the past but it's still profit that adds up well over time.

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I can still make gil but I have to work too hard for it. I have to compete with bots and update my prices very frequently. I have to compete with players selling their pve loot (which I craft) for WAY less than I pay for materials. Then I have to compete with some lame * players thinking they are robin hood and that everyone deserves "free" glamour items (selling at break-even).

This all escalated since Covid. Crafting/selling was for people who invested their time into it. Now it is for bots and common folk who had 1 week to spare and powerlevel their crafters because it's so easy now. Comon man, crafting is dead, admit it. Sure you can still make gil, but crafting and selling in every other aspect is dead.

I give you a good example. There is this guy on my server who just got into ffxiv. He has got 1 lvl 80 job and 2 lvl 80 crafters within 3 weeks time starting from zero. He is already "competing" with me for a good portion of items I am selling. I'm sure you know how much time and gil you had to invest back in the day to start making millions. It's all gone.

Can you still make gil? -yes. Do you have to compete with literally everyone and sell at bottomed out prices? -yes. Is it fun? -no (at least not for me and problably most veteran crafters). I know you like to disagree and argue with everyone here Jojoya, but you have to give me this one. Admit it.

EDIT: I'm not pretending to be entitled here. I just know change when I see it. And this change is for the worse for sure.

For me it's mainly the bots that are the problem. I don't care about other players playing "robin hood" or selling cheap to move items fast or whatever, that's a part of any free market in any MMO and supply and demand always balances it out. Other players can sell for whatever price they like.

But there's just no competing with a bot that has one character gathering 24/7 and another able to churn out tens of thousands of items at material cost and distribute them across the entire data center via a retainer army. This is what makes the time vs reward no longer worth it for me, even if I can still make some gil, because a bot has a significantly different value on time.

Other issues are the obvious crafting being too easy that floods supply. Retainer quick ventures and things like bozja lockboxes have not only starting flooding the supply of crafted items, but are even churning out current expansion furniture and gear now which significantly limits the number of markets. Also spiritbond has destroyed the prices of materia because bots are generating thousands of them just by botting. Cross-world hunts have kill the prices of battle materia too.

It felt healthier to me in past expansions because even if a lot of crafters didn't reach max level fully geared crafting, we used to have tiers of crafters and gatherers at all difficulties. Everything from low level materials, sub lv50 DoH/L gear, plain white level cap DoH/L gear, furniture at all levels, demimateria, materia, ect could sell for rather nice prices. There were far more useful items and markets for every type player to make solid profits.

Currently you can still make some gil, but if you're a past player sitting on a few hundred million or more, there's no point. You could put in countless hours to make a fraction of that. Which essentially removes gil-making as a part of crafting for many players. But when crafting is easy and you max gear week one of a patch, there's nothing to do with it anymore.

I'm also not sure SE actually intended it to be like this either. I'm sure they wanted a bit more accessibility, but more in making it streamlined, easy to pick up and learn, rather than handing it over on a plate. There's a reason craft materia costs a lot of scrips or you only get 2 materia clusters for a 24 man or new Normal raids have weekly lockouts on gear and so on. I doubt the plan was that we could just buy almost anything for peanuts on the market board and making items to sell would be pointless. They even made Exarchic impossible to 1-100% from NQ for once. There's probably a lot they misjudged and regret. Items having value or requiring some effort is part of any MMO.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Can you still make gil? -yes. Do you have to compete with literally everyone and sell at bottomed out prices? -yes. Is it fun? -no (at least not for me and problably most veteran crafters). I know you like to disagree and argue with everyone here Jojoya, but you have to give me this one. Admit it.
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I can't argue with your opinion about how you feel. That's subjective and personal to you.

I can argue with statements like "Crafting/trading is dead" because both are still valid forms of game play that are profitable for those willing to put in the effort.

Personally, I welcome competition in crafting and on the marketboard because I think the greater player community benefits from it. Competition might drive down what I personally earn but it also means I don't pay as much when I choose to buy instead of farming whatever myself.

It also makes items more accessible to newer players who don't have the years invested to have accumulated a lot of gil. That helps to make the game more fun for them and keep them invested in the game for stronger communities.

Was some change needed to crafting to lower the bar to entry? Yes. Did SE go overboard with how low they put it? Also yes and especially with respect to the difficulty level of Master crafting. But crafting is not dead.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

For me it's mainly the bots that are the problem. I don't care about other players playing "robin hood" or selling cheap to move items fast or whatever, that's a part of any free market in any MMO and supply and demand always balances it out. Other players can sell for whatever price they like.

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Except when said robin hood keeps flooding the market at break-even prices 24/7. He says he does it to fight the bot rings but in reality he is no better than them. Seriously, all calf and frontier glamour is sold in batches of 3-5 at break-even on Chaos. Updated 24/7 so literally no one else can sell at a profit unless you farm the materials yourself. How is that different from botting? At least bots are trying to make profit lol, this is even worse. If anything, he is helping the bot rings because he keeps buying their materials. The only losers here are the legit crafters. You guys don't see the bigger picture.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Except when said robin hood keeps flooding the market at break-even prices 24/7. He says he does it to fight the bot rings but in reality he is no better than them. Seriously, all calf and frontier glamour is sold in batches of 3-5 at break-even on Chaos. Updated 24/7 so literally no one else can sell at a profit unless you farm the materials yourself. How is that different from botting? At least bots are trying to make profit lol, this is even worse. If anything, he is helping the bot rings because he keeps buying their materials. The only losers here are the legit crafters. You guys don't see the bigger picture.

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It's different from botting because there's no botting involved.

As long as the other player is using their personal time and effort, they aren't doing anything wrong. They are a legit crafter. It's a free market and we can set whatever price we want, including at/below cost to produce. Not everyone is motivated by profit.

The only losers are those who aren't willing to adjust as the market changes. There's always something that can be sold for profit even if that something isn't what you would personally prefer to craft.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Except when said robin hood keeps flooding the market at break-even prices 24/7. He says he does it to fight the bot rings but in reality he is no better than them. Seriously, all calf and frontier glamour is sold in batches of 3-5 at break-even on Chaos. Updated 24/7 so literally no one else can sell at a profit unless you farm the materials yourself. How is that different from botting? At least bots are trying to make profit lol, this is even worse. If anything, he is helping the bot rings because he keeps buying their materials. The only losers here are the legit crafters. You guys don't see the bigger picture.

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thats the only way to make profit. if you are buying materials at inflated prices, you can never make a profit as the margins are too close.
so its MUCH different than botting
bots are cheaters, plain and simple. if someone farms the materials, and crafts the materials, then their cost is going to be far lower than yours, and they can sell far lower and make a profit. period. thats not cheating. at all. its wise time investment. as a legit crafter that farms all my own stuff to craft with, I really dont see your point about undercutting being worse than the bots. yes, I am selling things, yes, I may not make the same amount you do IF you sell something, but I do sell things more often I imagine, which works out to more profit in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's different from botting because there's no botting involved.

As long as the other player is using their personal time and effort, they aren't doing anything wrong. They are a legit crafter. It's a free market and we can set whatever price we want, including at/below cost to produce. Not everyone is motivated by profit.

The only losers are those who aren't willing to adjust as the market changes. There's always something that can be sold for profit even if that something isn't what you would personally prefer to craft.

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I'll have to circle the day on my calendar, I agree with you Jojoya lol

Guess that's the difference between winners and losers then. I am only motivated by making profit and that's why I am probably -one of the- richest players in this game. So you don't have to explain how things work. I still make millions a day, but I make less millions a day. I clearly am in front of the wrong audiance here. It takes a certain mentality to excell in something. That's why 99% of crypto/stock traders lose money and 1% attain life changing wealth. Same thing applies here. Not saying you can't have fun otherwise (to each his own) but that's not my point. My point was: read this carefully

"Robin hood buys materials off of bots and -only- off of bots, sells the crafted items at break-even and claims he is doing it to fight bots. Two things happen here. 1: He is funding bots all day long by buying their stuff. It is literally 100% profit for them since they BOT. 2: He screws every other player who wants to sell said items for a profit. You know how many players that are per DC? Should ONE player have "the power" to influence the whole entire market for said players? Also, you say he is a legit crafter. Yeah? Guy is online 24/7. buys materials cross server at times like 2am, 4am, 5am. Looks like a bot to me too. I don't trust people who have 10+ retainers on every server and claim "it is to fight bots" lol."

Anyway, whatever.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Guess that's the difference between winners and losers then. I am only motivated by making profit and that's why I am probably -one of the- richest players in this game. So you don't have to explain how things work. I still make millions a day, but I make less millions a day. I clearly am in front of the wrong audiance here. It takes a certain mentality to excell in something. That's why 99% of crypto/stock traders lose money and 1% attain life changing wealth. Same thing applies here. Not saying you can't have fun otherwise (to each his own) but that's not my point. My point was: read this carefully

"Robin hood buys materials off of bots and -only- off of bots, sells the crafted items at break-even and claims he is doing it to fight bots. Two things happen here. 1: He is funding bots all day long by buying their stuff. It is literally 100% profit for them since they BOT. 2: He screws every other player who wants to sell said items for a profit. You know how many players that are per DC? Should ONE player have "the power" to influence the whole entire market for said players? Also, you say he is a legit crafter. Yeah? Guy is online 24/7. buys materials cross server at times like 2am, 4am, 5am. Looks like a bot to me too. I don't trust people who have 10+ retainers on every server and claim "it is to fight bots" lol."

Anyway, whatever.

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I did read carefully the first time, and what you wrote here, is not what you wrote to what I replied to.

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Guess that's the difference between winners and losers then. I am only motivated by making profit and that's why I am probably -one of the- richest players in this game. So you don't have to explain how things work. I still make millions a day, but I make less millions a day. I clearly am in front of the wrong audiance here. It takes a certain mentality to excell in something. That's why 99% of crypto/stock traders lose money and 1% attain life changing wealth. Same thing applies here. Not saying you can't have fun otherwise (to each his own) but that's not my point. My point was: read this carefully

"Robin hood buys materials off of bots and -only- off of bots, sells the crafted items at break-even and claims he is doing it to fight bots. Two things happen here. 1: He is funding bots all day long by buying their stuff. It is literally 100% profit for them since they BOT. 2: He screws every other player who wants to sell said items for a profit. You know how many players that are per DC? Should ONE player have "the power" to influence the whole entire market for said players? Also, you say he is a legit crafter. Yeah? Guy is online 24/7. buys materials cross server at times like 2am, 4am, 5am. Looks like a bot to me too. I don't trust people who have 10+ retainers on every server and claim "it is to fight bots" lol."

Anyway, whatever.

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Cool, so you play to be ultra-wealthy market baron. The vast majority of players aren't here to do that. That doesn't make them losers, nor does it make you a winner.

You can sit there and complain all you want that others play the game for different reasons and have different goals than you. You can lecture on your game economic theories.

It's not going to change what others players do because that's not why they're playing the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You can sit there and complain all you want that others play the game for different reasons and have different goals than you.
[...]
It's not going to change what others players do because that's not why they're playing the game.

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Yeah, good point.
I mainly use the market to keep my inventory slim. My selling tactics are focused around that goal more than anything else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Cool, so you play to be ultra-wealthy market baron. The vast majority of players aren't here to do that. That doesn't make them losers, nor does it make you a winner.

You can sit there and complain all you want that others play the game for different reasons and have different goals than you. You can lecture on your game economic theories.

It's not going to change what others players do because that's not why they're playing the game.

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Clearly I am a winner in the "ultra-wealthy market baron" game. Clearly others are not. That's fine. I'm not talking about other aspetcs of the game. I also said "Not saying you can't have fun otherwise (to each his own)". I guess you can't win or lose at having fun. Well technically you can but fun is a different parameter for everyone.

Also what's wrong with complaining? I see everyone complaining is this sub forum. Everyone complains about bots or other things, yet nothing is going to change. Now my type of complaining is suddenly frowned upon. Because when it doesn't concern/effect you, it's suddenly not valid? Just let me complain. You don't have to reply you know. I also don't reply to things that don't concern me eventhough I (sometimes) have strong opinions about some things people say. Normally I don't participate on forums of any kind because there are always handfull of people on every forum that just NEED TO reply on EVRYTHING. Discussions with those people are annoying because they "are always right", or they try to stuff "their truth" through other people's throats. The only reason I came here is because I am/was passionate about this game and had genuine concerns about the growing botting situation. Other than that I am/was blowing off steam, nothing else. I didn't come here to get lectured like a 5th grader by some anonnymous stranger who "apparently" speaks for every majority. I am sure YOU don't see it that way, but I do. I am also sure there will be some social justice type of reply but whatever. Wish you all a great day.

No offence to anyone here, I'm sure you're all delightful people in your own social circles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Prrringles

Also what's wrong with complaining?

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I didn't say there was anything wrong with complaining. I just said don't expect it to change others. A lot of your comments come across as "everyone else is playing wrong if they don't play the way I do". There's a huge diversity in the player base when it comes to goals and the marketboard is going to be one of the few places where that diversity collides.