Mentor System: Suggestion

PROBLEM:
As a somewhat new player, I understand that there are a lot of helpful players out there who are willing to help. But I can't seem to help but notice recently that a good majority of the players that has had the mentor unlock choose to harass new or somewhat new players than help them.

I've seen this happen so frequently even in early dungeons where new players have been harassed for not not knowing certain things and mentors would make comments that, (to me and my friends), seem degrading and disheartening.

I'm not experienced at all, I enjoy the game for the content it provides and the story. I absolutely love the game. I won't say I am the most experienced, however, I feel as if seeing these type of players more frequently will deter new players and/or encourage this type of unhealthy behavior.

SUGGESTION:
As a suggestion, I feel that the mentors should still be accountable for actions even after attaining the rank. For example, it IS possible to give 'negative commendation' or give a deduction vote because the mentor is harassing others or not acting as a mentor should. When they reach a certain amount of negative commendation, I think they should temporarily lose their mentor rank UNTIL they regain the amount of commendation required.

It is a small thing to change, but it will discourage rude behavior, and encourage more friendly behavior. I would hate to see new players be deterred from the game and dungeons because individuals believe that they have gained the 'right' to do so with their experience.

This looks to be typical mentor behavior, unfortunately. It seems to happen all the time. The game would be better off without the mentor system, same with the Novice Network in it's current state - which is my own suggestion.

I once refused to wear the mentor crown because they always seemed to be the ones that were rude in dungeons, but realised mentors with the sword icon tended to be nicer, so I started wearing that.

Once I joined the novice network my negative perception of the mentor system transformed into something extremely positive. Over night, the constant answering of questions made me realise how useful this system really is.

I think it's less of a problem with mentors and more of a problem with experienced players generally. They've done this content already and now just want to farm it or go through it efficiently with big pulls.

Depends how these negative comms would be given

People in this game can be very petty and passive-aggressive in their toxicity...
I would expect to get negative comms for playing a male au ra in skimpy clothing (sometimes), for not being a curebot, or for giving people tips on their job (yes, nicely).

Mentors who act inappropriately, or invite those who are severely unruly, and show a pattern of it (inviting friends on alts who harass other players in the network) should be removed, and indefinitely so.

In fact I would be a fan of the mentor system removed entirely, and creating an open server chat (essentially replacing the Novice Network) with much tighter moderation enforced.

If there are negative commendations, perhaps only sprouts should be able to give them. Sprouts are who they are a making a first impression to and teaching the game to, and it's them who should be able to say a bad impression was left.

If non-sprouts could give negative commendations, they might abuse it for reasons that have nothing to do with politeness.

I would be blindly giving negative comms to every one I see tbh

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Originally Posted by MPK

I would be blindly giving negative comms to every one I see tbh

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I wouldn't blindly give them away, but since mentors usually act in a negative manner - I might as well be! :cool:

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Originally Posted by KoiFishu

PROBLEM:
As a somewhat new player, I understand that there are a lot of helpful players out there who are willing to help. But I can't seem to help but notice recently that a good majority of the players that has had the mentor unlock choose to harass new or somewhat new players than help them.

I've seen this happen so frequently even in early dungeons where new players have been harassed for not not knowing certain things and mentors would make comments that, (to me and my friends), seem degrading and disheartening.

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Can you give specific examples of things mentors frequently say that you find harassing?


Coming from the other side, I can tell you that I've been met with hostility from sprouts, sometimes even directed to self-copulate, when I say things like:

• "(Iron Will/Defiance/Grit/Royal Guard) (Please use it.)"
• "Fire III is great for switching from ice to fire, but after casting it once, you should spam Fire I. Fire III does 33% more damage but takes 40% longer to cast, so it's a damage loss."
• "Please use area attacks instead of single targeting."
• "(Wait, please.) (Please listen.) This is an extreme trial, which has means it has mechanics that absolutely cannot be ignored, so let's talk about how to handle them."

so I have doubts that the issue is as one-sided as threads on the forums often allege.

I don't doubt that there are some mentors out there who do say mean things in duty--I've seen some of those too. But I also see sprouts retaliate to simple and necessary feedback instead of taking the feedback.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Mentors who act inappropriately, or invite those who are severely unruly, and show a pattern of it (inviting friends on alts who harass other players in the network) should be removed, and indefinitely so.

In fact I would be a fan of the mentor system removed entirely, and creating an open server chat (essentially replacing the Novice Network) with much tighter moderation enforced.

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It's become such a shell of what they envisioned it to be. I agree with you the quicker they take it out back behind the woodshed and let it be done the better.

everyone says mentoring should be more of a job but this is a game. you play games to get away from jobs lol.

and there's no way to filter out false negatives.

honestly there should be no rewards other than tomestones for doing mentor roulette.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

everyone says mentoring should be more of a job but this is a game. you play games to get away from jobs lol.

and there's no way to filter out false negatives.

honestly there should be no rewards other than tomestones for doing mentor roulette.

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People don't expect nor say it should be a job, that is people trying to paint a false narrative out of the real complaints that are being made. People just want mentors to be held more accountable for their actions; that does not insinuate nor imply making a job out of it. People shouldn't have a crown, nor should they deserve said crown if they use it as a tool for sophomania, or megalomania. At least I, alongside quite a lot of posts I have previously seen. If you don't want to proactively help people, that's fine, and nor should you be obligated to help at every passing opportunity, but if you're just going to use it as a tool to delude yourself into a false sense of superiority whilst simultaneously degrading those around you then that's a different matter entirely; hence accountable.

Considering the pool of instances/encounters that are included within Mentor roulette this is a bad idea. People will always take the most efficient route, and doing mentor roulette is anything but that when you can get anything from a Guildhest, to Praetorium, to Extreme Primals. Nobody is going to do that for some tomestones, at least the general populace or mentors won't. So you need something to incentivize it further, be it a mount, minion, or titles. So yes, it should have additional rewards. What mentors shouldn't have however is a crown.

Its a bit like the housing system. They've released it all wrong and now its hard to fix.

From the beginning it should not have had a roulette or rewards at all. It should have been a system built for helping people and nothing more. I don't think the concept of Mentors should be removed, but I do feel that it needs to be designed around what it's supposed to stand for and not what it currently is. Also, get rid of the crown and replace it with something much less visually appealing. Some players have big enough egos already.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Can you give specific examples of things mentors frequently say that you find harassing?


Coming from the other side, I can tell you that I've been met with hostility from sprouts, sometimes even directed to self-copulate, when I say things like:

• "(Iron Will/Defiance/Grit/Royal Guard) (Please use it.)"
• "Fire III is great for switching from ice to fire, but after casting it once, you should spam Fire I. Fire III does 33% more damage but takes 40% longer to cast, so it's a damage loss."
• "Please use area attacks instead of single targeting."
• "(Wait, please.) (Please listen.) This is an extreme trial, which has means it has mechanics that absolutely cannot be ignored, so let's talk about how to handle them."

so I have doubts that the issue is as one-sided as threads on the forums often allege.

I don't doubt that there are some mentors out there who do say mean things in duty--I've seen some of those too. But I also see sprouts retaliate to simple and necessary feedback instead of taking the feedback.

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Nah I totally agree. There are some sprouts who do act like that. But I've had instances in lower duties too where mentors would be passive and say things like "we would get through this quicker if only the DPSs knew how to play this game","don't bother playing if you can't do well,","you're unfit to play the content, stay away" etc. I'm not saying specifically this is geared towards me. I've gotten used to behavior from mentors and I would just report for harassment when the flaming gets too out of hand, but it's disheartening to see this happen quite often to new players or somewhat new players. These sort of things I often see. I'm not saying my suggestion would do anything-- I mean everyone else can probably think of something better, but again, I do feel like there's nothing to lose IF a mentor acts differently. I guess the end all say all is, that there are mentors out there who are doing the exact opposite of what you'd expect them to do and there's not much they lose from it when it does happen.

I think like the others said though, removing the mentor system completely and making open chat with moderation would be a nice step forward. Again, to clarify, I have nothing against mentors. I have met some extremely nice and helpful mentors who would go above and beyond to help me and my friends. But I am just saying that it's hard to ignore the ones who stand out to harass players.

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Originally Posted by KoiFishu

mentors would be passive and say things like "we would get through this quicker if only the DPSs knew how to play this game","don't bother playing if you can't do well,","you're unfit to play the content, stay away" etc.

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I think that's more common on EU data centers. I see it regularly there, but haven't really seen it on NA data centers for years.

Sounds like the new players gave "attitude" and mentors gave it right back. Not saying either is right but welcome to the internet. And then come running to forums complaining that they can't be worse type of player without it getting thrown right back them.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Its a bit like the housing system. They've released it all wrong and now its hard to fix.

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Its not, they choose not too. There are simple and easy ways to fix the most glaring and repeated issues posted on the forums. Its that they don't want to fix old stuff and rather make new stuff. The msq roulette should teach you that. Those have been broken forever and they only changed it because its core progression to the game.

If a mentor makes derogatory/inappropriate comments toward you, report it. Part of the mentor program includes being "an exemplar of player etiquette". SE has taken mentor status away from some who repeatedly behaved far outside acceptable standards.

Unfortunately, they will not act if you're reporting comments directed at another player despite how unpleasant that can make the situation for everyone present. The other player will need to make the report.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

If there are negative commendations, perhaps only sprouts should be able to give them. Sprouts are who they are a making a first impression to and teaching the game to, and it's them who should be able to say a bad impression was left.

If non-sprouts could give negative commendations, they might abuse it for reasons that have nothing to do with politeness.

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Better not to have them at all. Not every sprout is a new player and some will have already made up their minds about mentors. Some would be happy to spread negative commendations just because they made a new character and were given that ability.

What I'd rather see is SE better define the commendation system since it has an impact on who becomes a mentor. "Player commendation is a system whereby you can commend a party member who left a positive impression on you in the course of duty" is too broad for something that's used to determine who can become a mentor. There should be a separate type of commendation for "I think this player would make a good mentor" versus a commendation used for "this player told some good jokes to make me laugh" or "this player had a cute glamour" or "this player was nice".

A negative comm system isn't needed. Report + blacklist does the same thing. If the mentor is really misbehaving they will lose their mentor rank.

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Originally Posted by KoiFishu

PROBLEM:
As a somewhat new player, I understand that there are a lot of helpful players out there who are willing to help. But I can't seem to help but notice recently that a good majority of the players that has had the mentor unlock choose to harass new or somewhat new players than help them.

I've seen this happen so frequently even in early dungeons where new players have been harassed for not not knowing certain things and mentors would make comments that, (to me and my friends), seem degrading and disheartening.

I'm not experienced at all, I enjoy the game for the content it provides and the story. I absolutely love the game. I won't say I am the most experienced, however, I feel as if seeing these type of players more frequently will deter new players and/or encourage this type of unhealthy behavior.

SUGGESTION:
As a suggestion, I feel that the mentors should still be accountable for actions even after attaining the rank. For example, it IS possible to give 'negative commendation' or give a deduction vote because the mentor is harassing others or not acting as a mentor should. When they reach a certain amount of negative commendation, I think they should temporarily lose their mentor rank UNTIL they regain the amount of commendation required.

It is a small thing to change, but it will discourage rude behavior, and encourage more friendly behavior. I would hate to see new players be deterred from the game and dungeons because individuals believe that they have gained the 'right' to do so with their experience.

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Just think of the mentor crown as a sign of bad players. You should only take advice from legends.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

Its not, they choose not too. There are simple and easy ways to fix the most glaring and repeated issues posted on the forums. Its that they don't want to fix old stuff and rather make new stuff. The msq roulette should teach you that. Those have been broken forever and they only changed it because its core progression to the game.

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The issue is, they're not going to fix anything unless enough people band together and massively affect their profits. It's not that they're choosing not to just to be villains, they just don't think enough people care for them to put forth the resources and time. Cut into their profits though, that's when they'll start to notice the issues and think that it's a big enough deal for people. That's the surefire way to get change going in games like this, I can even reference several others that have had change pushed through because a good chunk of their community boycotted their in game store until they got their way. It's just company mindset and it's the same across any industry.

Sadly some become mentors for prestige or to force their tryhards beliefs on others, I agree that mentors should be held to a higher standard else they should lose their status so that negative commendation is a pretty good idea, if they accumulate too many clearly they are not fit for the role of "mentor"

I think your idea of a negative recommendation would have to have a failsafe involved, otherwise it would be far too easy for it to be misused.

I wish they would change it don't get me wrong ^^"

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Originally Posted by Infindox

I think your idea of a negative recommendation would have to have a failsafe involved, otherwise it would be far too easy for it to be misused.

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Once per weekly reset, perhaps? So if you do hand one out to a mentor that wasn't super helpful, but not actually rude, you're now not able to hand one out later to someone who IS rude.

Only available from sprouts, and only from sprout to mentor, whether the crown is on or not. (Note: There are a LOT of mentors like me who hang out NN but turned the crown off because it just invites people to be rude to you first. I don't need a crown to shout instructions in an alliance raid, after all!) Only available in a Duty situation (even though it would be nice to have it as an option from NN, that'd open it up to abuse from alts.)

After a critical mass of negative commendations over a period of time, say ten from different sprouts within a week, someone's mentor crown gets temporarily yeeted off until they earn another +100 regular commendations back. If ten different player characters felt you were the rudest person they were likely to encounter that ENTIRE WEEK.... well, time to take off the burger king crown and think about what you've done.

The negative comm could still be applied to a hidden mentor (no visible crown) if it's available as a right click comment on the name of the player in the UI.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

In fact I would be a fan of the mentor system removed entirely, and creating an open server chat (essentially replacing the Novice Network) with much tighter moderation enforced.

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SE barely moderates these forums, and you honestly expect them to moderate an on the fly, real time chat system? Not happening.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

SE barely moderates these forums, and you honestly expect them to moderate an on the fly, real time chat system? Not happening.

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Sorry, there was an implicit desire/recommendation. Not expectancy. Apparently, that wasn't clear enough.

What one hopes for, and what one expects are 2 entirely different things. I don't think they will, but they should with some of the situations that have been happening as of late.

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Originally Posted by KoiFishu

PROBLEM:
As a somewhat new player, I understand that there are a lot of helpful players out there who are willing to help. But I can't seem to help but notice recently that a good majority of the players that has had the mentor unlock choose to harass new or somewhat new players than help them.

I've seen this happen so frequently even in early dungeons where new players have been harassed for not not knowing certain things and mentors would make comments that, (to me and my friends), seem degrading and disheartening.

I'm not experienced at all, I enjoy the game for the content it provides and the story. I absolutely love the game. I won't say I am the most experienced, however, I feel as if seeing these type of players more frequently will deter new players and/or encourage this type of unhealthy behavior.

SUGGESTION:
As a suggestion, I feel that the mentors should still be accountable for actions even after attaining the rank. For example, it IS possible to give 'negative commendation' or give a deduction vote because the mentor is harassing others or not acting as a mentor should. When they reach a certain amount of negative commendation, I think they should temporarily lose their mentor rank UNTIL they regain the amount of commendation required.

It is a small thing to change, but it will discourage rude behavior, and encourage more friendly behavior. I would hate to see new players be deterred from the game and dungeons because individuals believe that they have gained the 'right' to do so with their experience.

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I don’t think negative commendations are a good idea. But if a mentor is found to have broken rules, gets a warning for conduct or whatever then they should lose the crown in my opinion.

My experience isn’t that mentors harrass or troll in game so much as elitist attitudes and drama in novice network.

Most of the battle mentors are just people who played the game a lot, many an unhealthy level, and the crown is just another min/Max thing for them. A lot of them are openly rude about new players and nothing is ever done about it. Mentor of mentor title people are the worst for this.

And most of the trade mentors literally just levelled one land and hand to keep access to novice network so they can ask questions and chat.