For those who've cleared DR(Savage), what are your thoughts on it?

Full disclosure, but I haven't actually done it myself. I mainly want to gauge what everyone else's opinion on it is, because while it does look fun to try out, the harsh permadeath mechanic combined with the lost action grind kinda discourages me from even trying. Learning it looks pretty hard if you can only mess up once and you're out of the fight if your re-raise didn't proc, on top of the fact getting a group together wouldn't be easy even with stuff like the dedicated discords.

It's good to have additionnal savage content but I have majors problem with DRS.

48 players is too much
It's extremely difficult to get 48 people in DRS, in my opinion it should have been reduced to 24, much easier to assemble 3 groups.
Communication also tends to be a challenge and ends up with 2-3 leader talking and the rest muted.

The difficulty is laughable
You will reach enrage 90% of the time on a first run and mechanics are very easy despite being punishing (3/2 strikes and you're out), each fight is minus Extreme difficulty with a DPS check. If you do your homework, you can join a clear group and even make a deathless/debuffless run on your second run. Also, there is no mechanics that can wipe the whole group, it's either everyone made a mistake or enrage.
But it doesn't stops you from getting a DRS clear and laying on the ground the whole run. I've seen people getting to the end, dying at the beginning of every fight.
The real difficulty is to get 48 players in and how chronophage DRS is, 2 full runs can ask 2-3 hours.
Also slime/golem sides are way too different difficulty wise, both sides should've been around the same level.

There's enough ways to get raised and avoiding K.O. is very easy, a mistake can always happen.

Overrall, it's not bad but it has major flaws and since it's so long, it's also difficult to get people motivated for a run or two.
And I fear for this kind of content in the future, it's already hard to find people for BLU, it'll be harder for people to get DRS clears.
My guess is that we'll see other ways to augment the armors and that the next iteration will bring massives buffs in DRS that will allow faster, easier clears.

The raise restrictions are not as bad as in BA.
Healer can spam a rezz action that has a chance of 10% to rezz the person.
They can, will and have to do that mid fight to not die to the enrage.
DMG LB3s are mostly useless so they are saved for the healer to reduce the amount of raises needed.

But for DRs you need to be fully prepared.
That means you have to farm the needed actions in Bozja or buy them on the MB.

And time is a big factor, you need about 1+ hour for a full run and while progging even more.

About the difficulty I would say each boss is a bit harder then a savage primal. The biggest problem is the doom penalty after miss playing 3 mechanics.

My thoughts on DRS ? Awesome content. And overall exactly what I was expecting of it, something harder than Baldesion Arsenal yet shorter in time (Reclear run takes about 1h30 maximum). Progging the thing was quite the fun ride too.
I agree that it can be difficult to gather enough competent players to run it with and that's why everything goes around in discord servers. But you can't expect to be carried just like BA, there's a lot more of individual mechanics and you have to carry your own weight.
Difficulty wise I'd rank it like first savage tier floors (think E1S/E5S/E9S). DPS check can be really tight if too many deaths.
Also it is savage so yeah you have to come prepared with the right essences and proper lost actions, meaning yes you'll either have to grind or play the marketboard game.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Also, there is no mechanics that can wipe the whole group

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Slimes want to have a word with you. So does the Phantom and missing Dispell on the Queens Guard. Of course, you may still be able to recover (beside Slimes, that's a wipe) thanks to Reraiser but yeah: I've wiped enough times to slimes at least. Besides, having 48 player to do mechanics and wiping the whole raid every time someone do something wrong would be way too much, especially when you need like over an hour to get back to the boss with the mechanic you just wiped from.
That's why I'm okay with the difficult level of the raid. You will still take a few prog-sessions to beat enrage on every boss, especially with 48 people on different levels, but since how hard it is to organise 48 people for each run I'm happy that it's not as hard as 8 men savage.

The content is genuinely fun, but logistics is still a big issue and basically mandates use of something like Discord to organize runs because it's simply not going to happen if you just throw a PF up. I think just keeping it at 24 players would've been a smarter idea and would also permit the usage of more complicated mechanics.

Also, they really need to make it so you can progress the relic on savage even a little because you don't get even a single timeworn relic.

I personally would not rate the difficulty of any of the fights as higher then the roughest of the ShB extreme trials. They're more punishing due to the rez restrictions and eventual instakill from messing up mechanics, but that's about it.

I’ll also throw my question here how do you find a team to prog DRS right now? It seems that there cleared groups are farming with their static members and very few groups are recruiting newbies

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Originally Posted by LyraleiManagem

I’ll also throw my question here how do you find a team to prog DRS right now? It seems that there cleared groups are farming with their static members and very few groups are recruiting newbies

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Like with BA, Discord servers are usually a good way to go. Each Data Center should have a few.

My thoughts after clearing: Why the hell is this marked savage? Only thing hard about this quest is getting 47 other people

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Originally Posted by MPK

My thoughts after clearing: Why the hell is this marked savage? Only thing hard about this quest is getting 47 other people

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ah, there you are. Wondering what took you so long.

You can go now.

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Originally Posted by MPK

My thoughts after clearing: Why the hell is this marked savage? Only thing hard about this quest is getting 47 other people

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Everything below Ultimate difficulty should be labelled as (Casual) anyway. Right ?

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

Like with BA, Discord servers are usually a good way to go. Each Data Center should have a few.

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i joined one but it seems that people are mostly recruiting players with some level of experience.
back in SB there were frequent runs for fresh starters and it doesnt seem to be the case here... or maybe i was checking hard enough

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Originally Posted by Vaern

Everything below Ultimate difficulty should be labelled as (Casual) anyway. Right ?

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This is legit below e10s difficulty

Actually it's prob below e9s

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Originally Posted by Vaern

Everything below Ultimate difficulty should be labelled as (Casual) anyway. Right ?

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The best thing is... They aren't even that good at ultimate....

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Originally Posted by MPK

This is legit below e10s difficulty

Actually it's prob below e9s

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I don't get what you're saying. Are you saying that casual content is on the same difficulty than other casual content ???

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Originally Posted by Vaern

I don't get what you're saying. Are you saying that casual content is on the same difficulty than other casual content ???

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Calling it savage content is a disgrace.

But hey if it brings in more savage raiders then I guess it's not too bad

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Originally Posted by MPK

Calling it savage content is a disgrace.

But hey if it brings in more savage raiders then I guess it's not too bad

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Is there even a difference between Sastasha normal and E12S ? I don't see any they're both so easy.

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Originally Posted by Vaern

Is there even a difference between Sastasha normal and E12S ? I don't see any they're both so easy.

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idk depends on how many weeks in we talking about

Organizing 48 people is craptacular.

Progging the fights is fun. Once you learn them it's not all that hard.

Deaths are kinda punishing but there seem to be good ways around it. Healer lb3, reraise, sacrifice and arise. Honestly they kind of made deaths more of an annoyance to other players than a punishment.

I like the personal responsibility in the fights compared to BA. No following the group mindlessly on some things.

Gear being gated behind augmented bozja gear is stupid as heck in my opinion.

Overall I think it's good content that could still use improvements.

lol at the people saying that this is easier that Extreme fights. Extreme fights are almost braindead. With this you really need to be paying attention to stuff (e.g., the Mercies during Trinity Seeker must be prepositioned, and you have to pay attention to Seasons of Mercy, Iron Splitter, and other mechanics at the same time; the various debuffs that require you to do basic math during Katy Perry along with forced march and ladder game require some thought; chess and super chess during Queen are annoying, too; etc.) unless you're unable to do it yourself and solely relying on callouts, but even then there is a decent amount of personal responsibility. I think the main difference between this and 8-man content is that in a lot of the 8-man stuff, one person messing up a mechanic can wipe the party. That can also obviously happen in DRS (e.g., if someone messes up slimes / golems and the group isn't prepared to recover, it can snowball quickly; a tank messing something up and the Queens guard or minotaur adds get too close to each other can quickly turn into a wipe; if the dispellers are dead and they don't dispell raidwide AOEs during Queen, you can get killed pretty fast; reflect users not reflecting certain mechanics can also cause everyone to die), but it is less common if you're running with a competent group. Other Savage content seems to throw fewer mechanics at you at once but is also less forgiving if you mess up certain mechanics.

Overall, I enjoyed DRS, but I agree that it is annoying trying to get 48 *competent* people together to be able to run this thing. I've had many a run where you get down to your respective side, everyone pops their stuff, and then someone yells "oops I don't have any pure essences!" Everyone then has to reinstance and 47 people just wasted a reraiser and pure essence.

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Originally Posted by DoH

Feels hard man

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It is easier than Extreme. At most I'd say it's Shiva Unreal difficulty, low level mechanics but there is an enrage you WILL see with pugs dying to Bow.
Except you barely need specific positions, you can always adapt and most mistakes due to these positions don't lead to a wipe. 10 players dying can still lead to a easy clear.

All of these mechanics, including chess and super chess, seems intimidating at first (especially hot&cold swords) but it's all like E11S sundered skies, there is a braindead way to tackle the mechanic. Except this time it's for every mechanics.

I see players getting stacks from the counter during the knight phase or not able to do the quick maths in Hot&Cold. I'm not surprised they find DRS hard.

For example, season of mercy you can place yourself between the boss (that should be middle) and the orb, the flower is always at the opposite. Same for the ladder-mindcontrol game, tackle the mechanics one-by-one and you'll only die from brainfarts. Superchess is not very hard either when you realize you need to check if one column and one row are safe.

And if people don't use Dispell/Reflect, that's a communication issue. I always have Dispell for Minotaur/Queen just for safety, if Ravana was passed, DPS check won't be a problem.

Since i did it late it seemed easier? idk not seeing the savage of it all....lastly idk whos idea was it to have savage content locked behind casual content. FF14 since it has no ultimate this patch can easily benefit from content like this a 24 man savage sounds amazing! if abit insane to balance but makes your use of full Eden gear worth a dam as mmos struggle with the cycle of "Why do you raid?" "To get the best weapons and gear" "What do you do with the best weapons and gear" "To raid with!....or afk in limsa for 5 months"

It really is not even remotely close to Savage tier difficulty wise, mostly because almost all of the boss mechanics are personal and don't require any coordination to resolve.

I think making it 48 man was a mistake because it makes it harder to get a group going while also limiting how complex they can make mechanics due to issues like the AoE limit and character culling.

What is this discussion about being savage and not.
People who can not beat e11s will not beat DRs right now because they will be a burden to the group an might be the reason for enrage wipes.

DRs will become a bit like BA soon.
People will get better gear with more stats in the next Bozja part and that makes ever fight shorter.
The hardest mechanics are at the end of the fight.

It is a nice a different kind of content.
It is fun and you have a bunch of different discords organizing runs.

Its better to have something fresh and new instead of just another 8people fight who is like every fight before.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Since i did it late it seemed easier? idk not seeing the savage of it all....lastly idk whos idea was it to have savage content locked behind casual content. FF14 since it has no ultimate this patch can easily benefit from content like this a 24 man savage sounds amazing! if abit insane to balance but makes your use of full Eden gear worth a dam as mmos struggle with the cycle of "Why do you raid?" "To get the best weapons and gear" "What do you do with the best weapons and gear" "To raid with!....or afk in limsa for 5 months"

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I'm going to say no, it's not easier because you did it later and this is a good design on DRS. Since the mechanics are very often tuned for each player, you kind of know you did good or bad depending on your total death/stacks.

DRS is its own difficulty, the "savage" tag means nothing. And Eden savages are also locked behind normal Eden and story but it wasn't a problem. I also understand that not everyone was BiS at DRS release but I agree that Eden gear won't be usefull except for the upcoming Extreme. On the opposite, DRS rewards are purely cosmetic. 510ilvl is badly low, it's no higher than crafted gear you can grab for less than a quarter of the price.

Aaaaaaaaaaand as a MCH, Haste feels worthless. Funfact I reached enough haste so I have my 3rd drill way too soon before Reassemble refresh.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

It is easier than Extreme. At most I'd say it's Shiva Unreal difficulty, low level mechanics but there is an enrage you WILL see with pugs dying to Bow.
Except you barely need specific positions, you can always adapt and most mistakes due to these positions don't lead to a wipe. 10 players dying can still lead to a easy clear.

All of these mechanics, including chess and super chess, seems intimidating at first (especially hot&cold swords) but it's all like E11S sundered skies, there is a braindead way to tackle the mechanic. Except this time it's for every mechanics.

I see players getting stacks from the counter during the knight phase or not able to do the quick maths in Hot&Cold. I'm not surprised they find DRS hard.

For example, season of mercy you can place yourself between the boss (that should be middle) and the orb, the flower is always at the opposite. Same for the ladder-mindcontrol game, tackle the mechanics one-by-one and you'll only die from brainfarts. Superchess is not very hard either when you realize you need to check if one column and one row are safe.

And if people don't use Dispell/Reflect, that's a communication issue. I always have Dispell for Minotaur/Queen just for safety, if Ravana was passed, DPS check won't be a problem.

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lol just no... DRS is not easier than Extreme. There has never been a single Extreme or Unreal fight that I've had to pug prog for more than like an hour or two. I've also never been in a group for Extreme that's needed callouts. If you removed callouts from DRS, you would see *much* fewer groups clearing because people don't fully understand the mechanics on a personal level. For example, even you don't seem to fully understand super chess; although the *first step* is to check to see if the relative west and north rows are safe, if they are both safe then you next have to check the numbers on the relative east/west adds because there are three potential places where the 5s have to go in such case. People are to a large extent being carried through DRS by callouts by folks who actually know the fights, but on a personal level it is *much* more difficult than any Extreme fight to date. These fights may not be to the difficulty of the end-of-tier savage fights (i.e., 4, 8, 12), but they are definitely just as challenging if not more so than the lower-tier savage content (which is also not that bad).

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Originally Posted by Curisu

What is this discussion about being savage and not.
People who can not beat e11s will not beat DRs right now because they will be a burden to the group an might be the reason for enrage wipes.

DRs will become a bit like BA soon.
People will get better gear with more stats in the next Bozja part and that makes ever fight shorter.
The hardest mechanics are at the end of the fight.

It is a nice a different kind of content.
It is fun and you have a bunch of different discords organizing runs.

Its better to have something fresh and new instead of just another 8people fight who is like every fight before.

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What are you talking about? The fight is no where near e11s levels. It takes like 1 wipe each boss to learn all the mechanics, it's a complete joke to call it savage. It's not where even close to e9s levels of difficulty cept for 1 or two mechanics that are barely a savage mechanic.

Only thing some what tricky is probably slimes?

After looking at some logs yeah there were a few people without e9s clears that cleared it with us

While I quite enjoyed DRS, getting 48 people together is just too much. They'll either have to severely nerf this content come 5.5 or it will inevitably die, though that is more due to another flaw. The lackluster rewards. No complaints on the Cerberus mount but otherwise... you get almost nothing out of DRS. Just like Normal mode, they're incredibly stingy on fragment drops and you can't sell any of the upgrades. This turns DRS into a massive gil dump compared to BA unless you opt to farm clusters. It all feels very deliberately designed to try keeping you in Bozja... except players have very little reason to touch DRS ever again once they've cleared. They really need a better reward structure for both versions of Delubrum.

We have no idea what DRS impacted, though if I had to guess, I suspect it contributed to Ultimate's cancellation. If that were the case... I really can't say it was a good decision despite how much I did enjoy DRS.

It's not just the rewards from Savage DR: It's what is needed to cash in on them. You need 999 coins for a body upgrade and leg upgrade of the old bazjan gear. Then you need to get a special item from savage DR while also having the gear already purchased with gold coins.

As much as I'd love to see 48 man content come to life again, there is no way to do that with enrage timers on the fight. I mean 48 man content in the old days was literally a huge mob of people attacking a giant monster rather inefficiently, with a rotation of healers and tanks mostly going at it. Trying to slap an enrage on the thing is going to turn what should be a fun time into a game of who to blame for missing the 0.4%.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

It's not just the rewards from Savage DR: It's what is needed to cash in on them. You need 999 coins for a body upgrade and leg upgrade of the old bazjan gear. Then you need to get a special item from savage DR while also having the gear already purchased with gold coins.

As much as I'd love to see 48 man content come to life again, there is no way to do that with enrage timers on the fight. I mean 48 man content in the old days was literally a huge mob of people attacking a giant monster rather inefficiently, with a rotation of healers and tanks mostly going at it. Trying to slap an enrage on the thing is going to turn what should be a fun time into a game of who to blame for missing the 0.4%.

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Yeah, farming the full set seems like a huge waste of time.
I mean, I don't mind farming but it seems like extreme for bonus that only works on Bozja, especially if the next Bozja will make these gear outdated already

As someone who had a lot of fun in BA and cleared week 1, I'm very disappointed in DR savage.

The mechanics are not that bad if you got a good caller, just like BA, but the enrages are unreasonable for a 48 man content, especially from Trinity Avowed.
The upgrade method sucks. In BA you could little by little make progress by getting fragments even for the first boss, but now you're basically getting nothing most of the time. Frag runs in BA were accessible and the first step in progression path, now there is a pile of people stuck at first boss enrage not able to get any progress.
48 people is too much, the bosses/mobs should scale to lower parties, maybe make it 24 to 48 and have scaling based on that, similar to BA.

I do expect the issue of enrages to be fixed though by 5.55 when we get more ways to get the augments + another upgrade to get insane stats like in Eureka, where probably having half the party fully augmented will be enough to meet dps checks comfortably.

The enrage timers really aren't that tight (As in they can killed with well over a minute remaining despite some deaths) assuming everyone is using a pure essence, has full augmented Bozjan gear, and you're maintaining 100% uptime on Dervish/Rend Armor/Bravery (Preferably the stronger version triggered by the Elder + Cure IV combo). Being able to get the buff from the duel further eases things (especially if it's a BLM with Flare Star who's designated as the buff recipient) and even just coordinating usage of conventional debuffs like Trick Attack and Chain Strategem can significantly increase your damage output.

It's not meant to be casual content where several people can get away with not knowing how to do their rotations properly or come in unprepared without the right gear/items.

I do agree the instance would've been better designed in a manner that can support variable amounts of players, though.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The enrage timers really aren't that tight (As in they can killed with well over a minute remaining despite some deaths) assuming everyone is using a pure essence, has full augmented Bozjan gear, and you're maintaining 100% uptime on Dervish/Rend Armor/Bravery (Preferably the stronger version triggered by the Elder + Cure IV combo). Being able to get the buff from the duel further eases things (especially if it's a BLM with Flare Star who's designated as the buff recipient) and even just coordinating usage of conventional debuffs like Trick Attack and Chain Strategem can significantly increase your damage output.

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Yeah, the enrage timers are not very strict whatsoever. As long as people aren't dying, bringing the right actions, and aren't bad at DPS, you shouldn't even see enrage mechanics on any of the fights. Heck, I was in a run the other day where our duelist died (lol) and so we lost quite a bit of DPS as a result but were still able to clear without even seeing enrage on TA or Queen, and we got Phantom down to like 15% HP before he even started summoning the adds regardless of not having a buffed duelist. (It's a myth, btw, that if the duelist dies that you can't clear.)

Once you can start consistently making it through the entire dungeon without taking a single doom stack (or at least not dying), you can just pop one Reraiser at the beginning, maybe carry another in your holster, and then use the rest of that space to load up on lost actions. Bringing Mimics can also help save on space (as they take up only 12 space in your holster). And folks should have their holsters upgraded to hold up to 80 weight. In any event, you really shouldn't be joining this sort of content unless you have all of the right actions as you're effectively weighing your party down at that point.

I wanna talk about the prerequisite of entering. 48 is too much - Agree. But one of the reasons why 48 is too much is because a lot of midcore ppl is discouraged for simply try out the raid. There are many ppl not knowing the importance of essence, not knowing the importance of lost actions to your rotation. And the game tells you nothing, if anyone is willing to search google for guides, call yourself a raider cuz you deserve a clear. But for the majority of this game's player base, this content is too overwhelming. With the previous example, Eureka being nerfed, I speculate many ppl would just like to wait for a nerf, as opposed to properly prepare themselves.

If they did nerf the content in the future somehow, I could see them just lifting the "must have 48 players" entry requirement and relaxing the DPS checks/scaling boss HP to make them doable with considerably less then 48 players.

Making the actual mechanics easier by removing the need for certain lost actions would be overkill, IMO.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

If they did nerf the content in the future somehow, I could see them just lifting the "must have 48 players" entry requirement and relaxing the DPS checks/scaling boss HP to make them doable with considerably less then 48 players.

Making the actual mechanics easier by removing the need for certain lost actions would be overkill, IMO.

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That's one part I'm really sad about.
BA was designed to handle less then 48 people. It scales like the Fates in Eureka and to a lowest with 24 player.
It was fun to clear BA with 16 player and one group even managed to clear it with 12.

DRS scales as well. We lost one of our tanks during a run before TA and TA started the fight with 10 Million HP less.

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Originally Posted by shibeouya

now there is a pile of people stuck at first boss enrage not able to get any progress.

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Then they need to learn the mechanics. You don't need any of the gear to clear DRS as it only adds a little SkS. And every boss is easily doable before enrage as long as people don't die left and right.

The reason I've not even done DRS once is because it is called savage, requires 48 people to run, and GL getting 48 people in an entry-mid level end game difficulty system when people are divided with e9s-e12s progging / farming and relic grinding. Not to mention what they are asking for to even get the upgraded armor from this event is nuts. You need 999 coins for the upgrade material on the original body and legs, 500 for arms, helmet, gloves, and boots, then you have to somehow get through multiple savage DRs that are extremely time consuming to even do. In Eureka, you could get the dyable armor just doing the overworld content and never touch BA, which was a godsend because BA wasn't for everyone and it was a pain to even attempt.

My guess is that they are figuring people will go through the pain of doing savage DR for dyable judge armor. Truth is only a fraction of people are going to want to get this armor because of the design. The armor has the cloak problem that the paladin armor had back in Stormblood with the tank set, where the cape is long and requires physics to be realized for the tail on miqote and au ra. The high collars are also a major problem for a ton of the hair styles, and the only way the armor works is if someone has the helmet turned on. Additionally, the materials needed for the armor get hit from two directions: First, someone needs a massive number of southern front coins to get the upgraded bazjan set. On the other end people have to go and try to assemble a 48 man entry to mid level end game difficulty run on par with Shiva Ultimate, that can take up to 2-3 hours per run, just to get components to trade in for the upgraded Judge Armor. Kudos to anyone who actually manages to put up with this, but I can't think of something as frustrating as this outside of the ARR relic (Not pre-nerf. Nothing even comes close to pre-nerf ARR relic).

In all likelyhood there is going to be another tier of augmented armor in the 5.5 Bozja instance so I imagine they'll ease the process of getting the augmented law's order gear when that happens.

My main beef with the system is that you can't do anything with any excess augments you might happen to get while grinding savage reclears due to them being untradable.

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Originally Posted by MPK

My thoughts after clearing: Why the hell is this marked savage? Only thing hard about this quest is getting 47 other people

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Generally speaking, the biggest difficulty of most fights are the other players.