still new in tanking, is it bad if i didnt use all my skill?

short story is i run as tank and i just tank normally. but several times during my run (4 times as iam typing this now) i got people in my party said that my tank is bad

the gist is that i dont use all my skill (using PLD for example), i still use the core one obviously, halone combo, shield throw, AOE prominence etc and off course the defense skill too (rampart, sentinel, reprisal)

but i almost never use the one like requiescat, holy spirit/circle etc, and this got some people "mad" on me because i didnt play my tank correctly.

basically my tank is just pull enemy, spam prominence AOE 2-3 times and spam halone combo on enemy until everything die, defense skill if necessary and face enemy outside my party

is that wrong? should i also use the holy spirit/circle requiescat combo too? stuff like divine veil, reprisal, cover etc?

Well technically, you don't use your tank at it full potential. If this is good or not, is a totally different question. And a never ending question according to this forum. You're doing the minimum of what is awaited from a tank, which is already good.

On a personal point of view, I would notice it and sigh a little bit, but won't get mad. I don't know your story or whatever. In extreme or savage, that's a no go. But normal, I don't care anymore.

P.S. actually PLD is the most easy tank to "catch" not using its full toolkit : if MP full for more than 20 seconds -> full kit is not used. This applies to DRK as well, not sure about the other anymore, too long since I played them.

yes, you should be using all your damaging abilities. not sure why this is even a question. also don't single target when there are more than two mobs, this is like second grade level math, read ya tool tips.

reprisal is another defensive and cover is situational.

pld's aoe rotation includes req-holy circle for a reason. Given how pld's mp restore is enough time with some left over to be maxed for req when it comes off cooldown there's no excuse not to

Honestly, I think that if it's just a regular dungeon and not end game then it's fine. As long as you are able to pull big mobs and hold aggro, you're golden. Except for end game content then that's different

Gumas, you're always so nice!

Think of killing things faster as a form of damage mitigation.

https://ffxivrotations.com/32kb

This is a good starting point. Practice this or a variation of it.

I use Rampart right before I stop running to protect myself from the first wave of autoattacks. Feel free to place it after the first Total Eclipse.

In a lot of pulls, I ignore the first Total Eclipse combo altogether and go right into Requiescat.

There isn't much finesse here. If you use your CDs as often as possible, you'll get more DPS.

perhaps the party is just frustrated because you are not using your defense skills when it matters. popping Rampart when you've pulled 2 mobs is a waste, and the next time you almost die to 6+ mobs your healer will be very stressed.

If you aren't using your full kit or even half of it effectively then...yes, it is bad.

Always use your defensive CDs at the start of a pull, preferably just before the mosh pit piles ontop of you. Avoid thinking "I'll only use rampart or sentinel or hallowed ground if necessary," it is ALWAYS necessary. This by itself will make your tanking several times better than learning how to AoE, cause AoEing is easy. It might seem wasteful to use hallowed ground for a large pull, but believe me, that's when you get the best usage from it for in dungeons nothing is as great a threat to warrant hallowed ground aside from a large, angry mob of monsters. That said, try to coordinate when you'll use it, for the particularly tougher, scarier big pulls, or so that you'll get two uses at least within a dungeon.

Both Flight or Fight, and Requiescat are on a 1 minute cooldown. This means you can effectively use them for every single pull. Always use those buffs in every pull, please.

I definetely understand where the OP is coming from though, as the Requiescat-magic spell combo was suddenly added to PLD's kit with no ceremony or explanation, having gone through pretty much the entire game as a melee fighter/defender you're now expected to spam magic spells as well (and I think they were only added to placate players wanting PLD to be more a 'holy knight' image throwing holy spells around like in past FF games rather than a GLA with better abilities which they've been since day one here in FFXIV).

I'm rather embarrased to say I actually forget about Holy Spirit and Holy Circle most of the time and just go straight for Confiteor, unless I need to throw a Clemency up for my own survival given Requiescat also boosts healing magic potency as well - weaponskills can be just as potent as Requiescat-Holy Spirit/Holy Circle spam in general situations.

I know that's not the 'standard' or expected strategy, but it's worked for me, but then, I must also point out I don't do endgame so it's rather moot anyway.

I’ll give you the facts and let you decide wether it’s wrong or right for yourself.

Requiescat covers 5 GCDs, Holy Spirit is 250 potency buffed by 50% to 375 potency, you’ll get 4 of these within requiescat + a confiteor which is 800 potency buffed by 50% to 1,200 potency. So in 5 GCDs using your spells under Requiescat you’ll do 2700 potency worth of damage.

Let’s compare that to what you’d do without requiescat. Assuming no FoF (since you’re supposed to be alternating between requiescat and FoF), the average potency of the prominence combo = 170 (total eclipse 120 + prominence 220 / 2 = 170). You’ll get 2 of these combos + an extra GCD into the 5 GCDs where you should have used requiescat. So let’s be generous and assume that the extra GCD is prominence. 170 x 2 + 220 = 560. That’s a difference of 2140 potency from not using requiescat and again, that’s being generous, if you assume the 5th GCD was total eclipse it’s 460 potency and a difference of 2240 potency.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

If you aren't using your full kit or even half of it effectively then...yes, it is bad.

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Meh I understand your point, the train of thought, and the true logic behind it... I do disagree with it personally on a certain level.

If I tank a dungeon as a Paladin I will only use my magic DPS rotation about fifty to sixty percent of the time and I never start out with it. My main reasoning is I have died in several dungeons, regardless of cooldown usage and other factors while trying to play at my best due to healers realizing their full part and/or limitations.

Granted, the other ones that don't heal with MP, I don't approach at all like this, it's really just how I play Paladin... although I really only tank dungeons and old roulettes, if I did do Savage again I would have to play a job that I would feel far more comfortable using my full rotation.

I'll be honest, you should always approach dungeons as, pick up pack with AoE combos, Requiescat into Holy Circle spam into Confiteor, Hallowed around half HP. I may Fight or Flight, if trash is around 50% or higher, and rampart, saving Sentinel for the next set of trash. if I haven't used FoF on the first set, because DPS is good I'll use it on the second set, otherwise Requiescat is usually coming off cooldown by the time I've wrangled up the next set. I typically will not adjust this since there is 0 excuse, that healers and dps can't meet the requirement especially at 80, if they have the ilvl to get in, they should be more than capable to deal with any lvl 80 dungeon pull.

If you're making the most out of your cooldowns and doing as much as you can to pump out dps, yet you still go down, that's either on the healers or the DPS for not pulling their weight. But you should never save cooldowns or hold buffs because of just in case something bad happens, emergencies, it typically doesn't help in the end at that point. If anything making use of your skills properly prevents those emergencies happen in the first place, outside of people just failing mechanics outright.

I have had painfully slow expert runs, taking over 20+ minutes without a single wipe on boss or trash, simply because the DPS was atrocious, I still did not deviate from what I usually do, I shouldn't have my gameplay suffer due to incompetence of the rest of the party, nor hold anything for just in case.

Its not recommended to not use your tools, but at the same time you said yourself that you are new to tanking, so its a learning process and you even recognize it the issue, posted here for social feedback. You are in the right direction OP, just keep improving and don't be harsh with yourself.

When I'm on my healer, all I care is if the tank is rotating defensive cooldowns properly. When I'm on my DPS, all I care is if the tank is holding aggro properly and bunching up the targets (God I hate tanks who spread out mobs so DPS AOEs just can't hit all of them).

Tank dps is the least of my concerns. IMO defensive cooldowns and mob positioning (i.e. the pulls) are many times more important than whether a tank is using the full kit. Anyone who has to complain about tank dps outside of savage content needs to chill, or stay away from the DF forever.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Tank dps is the least of my concerns. IMO defensive cooldowns and mob positioning (i.e. the pulls) are many times more important than whether a tank is using the full kit. Anyone who has to complain about tank dps outside of savage content needs to chill, or stay away from the DF forever.

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I do agree that CDs and positioning take priority, but I also think that everyone should be giving it their all. I never expect it to actually happen though and I won't call anyone out on it, as much as it might annoy me. At most I might explain a mechanic if I see enough people eating the floor repeatedly, or maybe to ask my tank/co tank to pick up an add, but I tend to not say much of anything otherwise when it comes to player performance. Well, in game at least. I know better.

Trying to use our whole kit is a learning experience, and just takes time and practice with the skills. I recently picked up GNB and paused my PLD as my focus through SB/ShB content. Some things are 'universal' the basics of 1-2-3 and basic aoe aggro grab. Getting used to when to through the cartridge abilities between 1-2-3 combos or sliding one in between aoe's to help focus down one mob while keeping the trash occupied, has been interesting.

I know I'm a 'scrub' tank. I'll get you through any content I'm choosing to meatshield, but it will not be pretty. I'm going to use every CD, oGCD, and GCD to get you through; but damn is it not going to look pretty till I get comfortable with everything.