Are weaponskills and abilities too fast for you?

I'll start again with my question: do you like having a faster flow of combat or not? Is it something you struggled with in the beginning and enjoyed later? Is it something you don't like at all?

In Shadowbringers they took away a fair number of abilities from different jobs. One case was Howling Fist from MNK. I agree with keeping ability bloat down, but as a veteran player, I like having OGCDs ("off-global cooldowns" for anyone newer reading this) because it makes the rotation feel more active. I don't think EVERY job needs this because they should have a variety of playstyles that accommodate the variety of people playing. I'm just worried they'll go too far at some point.

I'm trying to get in some feedback to see how more in the community feel about it and if it's a persisting issue or just something that newer players struggle with for a bit. If you're a newer player, don't misunderstand: it's perfectly valid to be overwhelmed when a bunch of stuff is thrown at you to figure out and your feedback is important too. Even after all these years, I don't like how job progression is as you level. It's janky. Still, would waiting to put OGCDs at the end of your leveling experience help since you'd have a better understanding of your job at that point, or are you figuring it out as-is?

Interested to hear what people think.

It depends on the class.

If you need to do a lot of double weaves, you want slower GCDs to facilitate that. Playing around with Monk and haste in Debububum is a good example of where the brakes probably need to be pumped. Reaction time and chakra and less than 1.8 GCDs ends up with a ton of clipping.

The shortest, simplest answer to this is that whatever speed is comfortable for the job is often determined by its supplemental, OGCD kit.

Super slow? You want more OGCDs (Dragoon.) Super fast? Probably less, or at least, less pressure to double weave (Monk, Ninja).

People who focus on each job can give you mroe detailed answer I'm sure.

As Kabooa said it is definitely a job by job case.

I myself like having the choice as a player to choose the jobs that have different flows in combat and I'd like that to largely stay the same. If I want to be fast, I choose MNK. If I want to be slow, I play a tank or DRG. SE being SE has me concerned because of their record of making sweeping changes that remove choices like these over arbitrary reasons.

As for OGCDs, I'm mostly fine with them but there are a tiny few particular cases where I feel like OGCD attacks don't contribute much to play feel or hamper it. On one end of the spectrum, you have DRG which has to plan its usage for OGCDs because of eye management and animation lock, which I feel is a good way to make use of it having no speed boost unlike the other 3 melee. On the other end, you have a job like MCH which in my opinion is a hand cramping snooze fest because Gauss Round and Ricochet don't feel rewarding to use since you literally have an endless supply of them. Though of course I'm not trying to make it out like I want every OGCD to always contribute something to the rotation like High Jump, I just feel that having only one kind of OGCD can be pretty harmful to the job and it would help to be moderate with them.

I tend to think so. Never been a huge fan of this ADHD gotta have something to press every second combat as is.. one of the reasons i spend more time on scholar these days i can largely ignore it. toss out a dot a few broils here and there and take a moment to crack jokes in chat or whatever.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

As for OGCDs, I'm mostly fine with them but there are a tiny few particular cases where I feel like OGCD attacks don't contribute much to play feel or hamper it.

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I also agree with this. a lot of the ogcds dont really contribute anything they're just there to arbitarilly keep players busier. i'd rahter have a slower battle system that was actually dynamic.. where as now it's just ADHD whack a rotation out. doesnt matter what boss your fighting the rotation is exactly te same. you do adjust it occassionally for mechanics but the typically the whole rotation stays the same which is incredibly stale and boring.

kinda interested to see what this combat thing is that yoshi was hinting about for people that dont like the ADHD spam.

In my opinion, they are overall, too slow.
If you play PvP for a good amount of time nonstop, and then try doing any PvE content, you notice how slow things really are.

Definitely not. My biggest complain about FFXIV for years has been that combat is too slow, especially at the lower levels (I dread doing leveling roulette). They cover it up with good boss mechanics and make you move around a lot in content, but outside of your opener and burning all your OGCD's? lol no the combat is a drag. The GCD is way too long. Certain jobs lower that GCD to a more tolerable level, but its still too slow compared to coming from games like WoW and SWTOR.

Are weaponskills and abilities too fast for me?
Yes (though this is my first MMO so...)
They have me watching my hotbars instead of the boss, especially when things start going sideways and I need to start improvising to stay on top of things or return to my rotation.
This is why I now main "Blue DPS" tank jobs.
Solved my problem : )

It´s definately too slow. MNK with 1.94s is imo the fastest and i can still use 2 ogcd´s within this window. There are only a handful of bosses which force me to hurry with my rotation to bring all the ogcd´s, RoE, anti-knockback and buffs into an order, but that´s really really rare. I´ve played much faster games where the ogcd´s were buffs or defs, something with utility on that point and not just some damage buttons to keep the player busy in every burst phase. Even damage dealer were able to hold their ground when the tank was dead.

A much faster gameplay (1,4s-2s based on class) with less pointless ogcd´s but more utility ones could bring a lot to the gameplay. I´ve seen enough players dropping this game pretty fast because it was way too slow and you need like 100h to get atleast a handful of skills next to 123. But i´m pretty sure such changes won´t happen and probably not even possible with this aweful server tickrate.

My opinion is the faster something is supposed to be, the more streamlined it needs to be in order to be a smooth ride. Samurai is fine. Dragoon is fine. Monk is mostly okay, but has a few areas that need polishing. Like how Perfect Balance is essentially 6 stacks of Form Shift, but does not function like form shift when its used up, so its actively fighting the monk's flow of dragon kick for leaden fists -> other stuff -> bootshine.

In the grander scheme of things, FFXIV really isn't all that fast though, and its better for it. WoW's combat is incredibly bland by comparison.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

My opinion is the faster something is supposed to be, the more streamlined it needs to be in order to be a smooth ride. Samurai is fine. Dragoon is fine. Monk is mostly okay, but has a few areas that need polishing. Like how Perfect Balance is essentially 6 stacks of Form Shift, but does not function like form shift when its used up, so its actively fighting the monk's flow of dragon kick for leaden fists -> other stuff -> bootshine.

In the grander scheme of things, FFXIV really isn't all that fast though, and its better for it. WoW's combat is incredibly bland by comparison.

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WoW's combat is only bland because they removed everything from the combat and over simplified every class, made CD's too long and removed most of the OGCD's from the game while leaving most classes with literally a 1,2,3 rotation. The 1s GCD isn't the issue with WoW, its the fact that they nuked all the classes back in legion.

They are too slow. Outside of say Ninja and MCH the classes have very low APM. I very much enjoy classes with a ton of oGCDS that aren't locked behind a 2.5s GCD clock.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

WoW's combat is only bland because they removed everything from the combat and over simplified every class, made CD's too long and removed most of the OGCD's from the game while leaving most classes with literally a 1,2,3 rotation. The 1s GCD isn't the issue with WoW, its the fact that they nuked all the classes back in legion.

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...439/cover4.jpg

noticing a pattern

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Originally Posted by Drakanous

I'll start again with my question: do you like having a faster flow of combat or not? Is it something you struggled with in the beginning and enjoyed later? Is it something you don't like at all?

In Shadowbringers they took away a fair number of abilities from different jobs. One case was Howling Fist from MNK. I agree with keeping ability bloat down, but as a veteran player, I like having OGCDs ("off-global cooldowns" for anyone newer reading this) because it makes the rotation feel more active. I don't think EVERY job needs this because they should have a variety of playstyles that accommodate the variety of people playing. I'm just worried they'll go too far at some point.

I'm trying to get in some feedback to see how more in the community feel about it and if it's a persisting issue or just something that newer players struggle with for a bit. If you're a newer player, don't misunderstand: it's perfectly valid to be overwhelmed when a bunch of stuff is thrown at you to figure out and your feedback is important too. Even after all these years, I don't like how job progression is as you level. It's janky. Still, would waiting to put OGCDs at the end of your leveling experience help since you'd have a better understanding of your job at that point, or are you figuring it out as-is?

Interested to hear what people think.

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They didn't remove Howling Fist, they just changed its name to Enlightenment, gave it a new animation and icon, and added a Chakra requirement to pretend that resource was ever thought about beyond a surface level.

Bitter jokes aside, the game is already incredibly slow as is, but when the floor turns orange and you're scrambling for a safe spot while also still trying to greed some extra damage before you eat dirt, it can feel very fast.

Honestly, they have a lot of poor design decisions that are piling up one after another, and I'm legitimately not even looking forward to Endwalker beyond the story at this point. As VentVanitas said, SE has a track record of some incredibly questionable changes to jobs under a variety of ill-conceived pretenses, and they often just don't add up against what players are actually doing with them on live servers.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

WoW's combat is only bland because they removed everything from the combat and over simplified every class, made CD's too long and removed most of the OGCD's from the game while leaving most classes with literally a 1,2,3 rotation. The 1s GCD isn't the issue with WoW, its the fact that they nuked all the classes back in legion.

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What i think that person meant was that if they go the route of reducing GCDs they might start trying to simplify things which in turn would result in the same utterly boring combat WoW has these days, hell the pruning begun in WoD and it simply peeked at legion since they started adding those temporary abilities.

Coming from WoW FF14's combat is an improvement, not because of speed but simply because there's a lot more skills which result in far more interesting gameplay that takes a lot more time to master, WoW's combat has degraded to an incredibly basic 1,2,3 rotations with one or two offensive cds that increase the damage of said rotation, a couple of defensives and utility if you are lucky, you can literally master it in a few days, they like to pretend talents/covenants bring somekind of customization but metaslaves have shown how broken certain combs/builds are to the point fun builds do 30% less damage and require more effort to play well to achieve that 30% less damage. (Even though content can still be done without abusing broken meta specs and combs the community has reached such metaslave levels playing anything non meta is wasting your time cuz you ll be spending hours trying to get into or make groups)

I dont see an issue with FF14 jobs, some are slower which is fine and some are faster, more playstyles the better so people have a job that fits their preferred playstyle.

FFXIV's Job designs has it's own share of difficulties which are by no means better or worse than WoW, just overall different.

(My WoW experiences which i try to vaguely explain soon are from the burning crusade/early WotLK era so forgive me if things have changed since then or are somewhat incorrect)

-First of all, our Jobs have outside of Bozja/Eureka/PvP no customisation at all, and even inside said Content, it is laughably small compared to WoW, so despite things being unbalanced on WoW's end (which is actually a good thing for PvP), i'd say they're better off than our Jobs on that matter.

-FFXIV Jobs are too similar from one another in their Role category in regards to their skills, especially Healers and Tanks.
A good chunk of all the Skills we have are just raw damaging abilities or oversimplified abilities that even a halfwit can understand. A good amount of Jobs on our end have/had great potential to become a really complex and interesting Job but Squeenix and a good chunk of our own Community think it is a great idea to keep going towards the other direction.

-FFXIV also has in my opinion at least, way too many quality of life improvements, which are getting more and more with every coming patch. I know what your'e probably thinking now, "how can this be possibly be a BAD thing???". Allow me to explain with a handful of examples:

-Did you know that WoW has abilities that arent just meant to be used in combat? Warlocks for example are capable to do a Ritual which required other players to ineract with it that allowed to summon a Portal to the Rituals location or to summon a giant Rock Golem which serves as a Pet. Mages can create food and portals into towns of their own faction and there is more like that. Those Skills served a purpose (to interact with other People that play a different Class than you do) in order to have quality of life improvements. But what do we have? Dutyfinder and were done with it. What i am trying to say here, its "small" things like these that make a game experience and ultimatively, your playable Class/Job, more memorable, fleshed out and ultimatively, more fun.

And Fun, is something we should be getting more of, instead of all this pointless ramblings about balance.

I agree with your perspective about the jobs. I think the classes in WoW bring more fun playstyles than the Jobs in XIV, especially because there's not just one way of playing the same spec there, even though is a niche play... (e.g. something useful mostly for solo content). There are a lot of balancing issues, of course, but still it brings more interesting gameplay. Though, also they can't really change classes there, so you basically locked beind the choice of 3 specializations forever.

On another note, I'd really love for some sort of situational customizability behind a revival of the old cross-class abilities, but just for things with niche ussage (not like before, when you HAD to have esuna no matter what as a healer).