Need help to play Summoner

Can anyone have easy and relax rotation for summoner plz share with me im new to spell caster?

Great resource. https://www.akhmorning.com/jobs/smn/

It's been a while since I've played SMN, but I don't think that there's an "easy and relaxing" rotation. SMN's rotation is a little complex (compared to other casters at the very least).

If you're looking for an "easy and relaxing" rotation, I would suggest playing RDM (if you want to stick with a caster, otherwise DNC is also easy and relaxing) instead of taking shortcuts as SMN. It doesn't really lend itself to being that easy going.

if you want easy and relaxing rotation you should go for RDM iam afraid.

BLM - easy but not relaxing, because you will need to have your eyes open all the time, watching the foul timer, your mp, your position, incoming aoe, etc

SMN - relaxing but not easy, simply put if you mess up the rotation or the usual skill order, you can end up "playing piano" for a while (at least on my case)

RDM - easy and relaxing, all you do is just skill 1+2 and skill 1+3 until your gauge is over 80, do the combo, repeat, thats it.

Go into palace of the dead from floor 1 and empty hot bars, learn the skills as they come. By the time you get to 60 you will know the rotation, it doesn’t really change much after that, just added perks.

It doesn’t hurt to read the descriptions in you action menu either, but starting from scratch is the best bet to actually learn the job.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

Go into palace of the dead from floor 1 and empty hot bars, learn the skills as they come. By the time you get to 60 you will know the rotation, it doesn’t really change much after that, just added perks.

It doesn’t hurt to read the descriptions in you action menu either, but starting from scratch is the best bet to actually learn the job.

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I would that if they couldn't grok it the first time they leveled from lvl 1 then doing that again (accelerated) might not be helpful, but that's generally a good tip for classes that start at higher levels and/or boosted classes.

That would be good to make sure they don't have the anxiety that comes with being in a group and not understanding your job though. That and command missions.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

Go into palace of the dead from floor 1 and empty hot bars, learn the skills as they come. By the time you get to 60 you will know the rotation, it doesn’t really change much after that, just added perks.

It doesn’t hurt to read the descriptions in you action menu either, but starting from scratch is the best bet to actually learn the job.

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Nobody learns a rotation correctly by adding actions one at a time from Lv1. Most jobs don't even have fleshed-out rotations until 60.

The principle of Specificity of Training says the training needs to align with the desired outcome. If you try to learn a job with an incomplete action set, you're going to put the buttons in positions that don't make sense later when you have more actions that need to fit together in certain ways, and you'll develop bad habits that you'll then need to spend time unlearning at higher levels.

Read your tooltips and place every skill you can place in order. That's what I do for jobs I pick up - For example, picked up WHM and placed every single skill, based off of reading the tooltips, into places where i'd know i can reach them, or places where I know i'll be more likely to click on them versus use a keybind for them. Same w RDM - I put verraise on my hotbar that doesn't have keybinds attached, because it's where I click versus where I NEED to have a faster reaction time (so vercure is attached to a hotbar with a keybind).'

That being said, reading your tooltips can only do so much - summoner is a difficult class to master, and you've got to just practice with what works best for you. Go to a training dummy and practice your skillset there, or go to lower level dungeons where the stakes arent as high.

I think SMN itself needs a lot of help first.

https://www.akhmorning.com/jobs/smn/guide/levelling-up/

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Nobody learns a rotation correctly by adding actions one at a time from Lv1.

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That’s literally how the game teaches you the rotation for every job that started at level 1, one skill at a time (aside from the starter set)
And most likely is the reason that jobs that don’t start at level one require you to have leveled something else, so you can take the kit they give you and know how it works.

As usual, reading the tool tips is the key.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

I would that if they couldn't grok it the first time they leveled from lvl 1 then doing that again (accelerated) might not be helpful, but that's generally a good tip for classes that start at higher levels and/or boosted classes.

That would be good to make sure they don't have the anxiety that comes with being in a group and not understanding your job though. That and command missions.

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I grok that.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Nobody learns a rotation correctly by adding actions one at a time from Lv1.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

That’s literally how the game teaches you the rotation for every job that started at level 1, one skill at a time (aside from the starter set)
And most likely is the reason that jobs that don’t start at level one require you to have leveled something else, so you can take the kit they give you and know how it works.

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Your comment ignores the boldunderlined part of my statement. And the part that follows:

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Nobody learns a rotation correctly by adding actions one at a time from Lv1. Most jobs don't even have fleshed-out rotations until 60.

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The game doesn't teach you the rotation. If you base your rotation only on the actions the game gives you, one at a time, in the order it gives them to you, you will set your hotbars up incorrectly. It's not until about 60 that you have enough actions to devise a decent arrangement of actions on your hotbar, and even then, you will still set up them up incorrectly on most jobs if you don't look all the way to 80. Some time between 62 and 80, you will need to reorganize your bars and unlearn bad habits you developed because you didn't look ahead and base your hotbar arrangement on your complete action set.

So again.

Nobody learns a rotation correctly by adding actions one at a time from Lv1.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Your comment ignores the boldunderlined part of my statement. And the part that follows:


The game doesn't teach you the rotation. If you base your rotation only on the actions the game gives you, one at a time, in the order it gives them to you, you will set your hotbars up incorrectly. It's not until about 60 that you have enough actions to devise a decent arrangement of actions on your hotbar, and even then, you will still set up them up incorrectly on most jobs if you don't look all the way to 80. Some time between 62 and 80, you will need to reorganize your bars and unlearn bad habits you developed because you didn't look ahead and base your hotbar arrangement on your complete action set.

So again.

Nobody learns a rotation correctly by adding actions one at a time from Lv1.

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With the exception of post 50 BLM mage that’s exactly how I learned every rotation, it’s literally that easy. And every job has a fleshed out rotation at level 50.

There is no “correct” way to set up hot bars, people set them up how it makes them comfortable for themselves. The game literally builds the rotation for you as you’re leveling.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

There is no “correct” way to set up hot bars

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There's literally a whole branch of computer science and cognitive science that studies interface design, that says most end users who are given a customizable interface will customize it wrong, and considerations that an interface designer needs to keep in mind to minimize the negative impact of users who customize their interfaces wrong.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

There's literally a whole branch of computer science and cognitive science that studies interface design, that says most end users who are given a customizable interface will customize it wrong, and considerations that an interface designer needs to keep in mind to minimize the negative impact of users who customize their interfaces wrong.

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If you’re given a customizable interface, how is there a wrong way to use it? Isn’t the whole point of a customizable interface to allow the end user the ability to set it up in a manner that functions easily for THEM. Seems to me there is a whole branch of computer science wasting their time. “Why didn’t you use this interface like I did” shrieks some nerd in disgust...

If we compared hot bar setups , we’d probably both tell each other your hot bar is FUBAR. I mean really, the hot bar has nothing to do with it anyway, it’s all about the keybinds, if someone is so inclined they could play without the hot bars visible (so much for design \o/...

I'd still prefer learning class from lv1 rather than being thrown straight to lv70 or whatever with 30+ skills and having no idea where to even start...
Optimization can come later, once i'm familiar and comfortable with skills.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

If you’re given a customizable interface, how is there a wrong way to use it? Isn’t the whole point of a customizable interface to allow the end user the ability to set it up in a manner that functions easily for THEM. Seems to me there is a whole branch of computer science wasting their time. “Why didn’t you use this interface like I did” shrieks some nerd in disgust...

If we compared hot bar setups , we’d probably both tell each other your hot bar is FUBAR. I mean really, the hot bar has nothing to do with it anyway, it’s all about the keybinds, if someone is so inclined they could play without the hot bars visible (so much for design \o/...

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Well to be fair the default WASD controls are an active detriment to most rotations just because they forcibly combine the hotbars and movement/camera binds in a manner that makes both feel cramped. In pretty much every MMO I swap it out immediately and use the same setup I have used since I was a kid.

The reason WASD remains popular is purely because it overlaps better with action games that copied their standard controls from 90s FPS titles. Once you actually have to press 12-18 buttons regularly on top of movement and camera management an RTS setup works way better.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

There is no “correct” way to set up hot bars, people set them up how it makes them comfortable for themselves. The game literally builds the rotation for you as you’re leveling.

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I Don't know about wrong interface, but where I agree with him is that ergonomics exist and matter, and what might be more ergonomic in a 50 rotation becomes a pain in an 80 rotation, thus forcing you to forsake muscle memory regularly along the way.

Fortunately, they allowed us (not so long ago though) to put everyskill in the hotbar already even if not having them unlocked.
So you can check a guide of lv80 gameplay to see the frequency and synergy to put long CDs on keys far away, group the fitting ones, put the ones that will be used more during movement close to movement keys, etc...), set your entire bars accordingly, and only use the skills unlocked until then but building the correct muscle memory.

And you do want muscle memory. Muscle memory plays a great part in not messing anything in your rotation and gives you mental leeway to focus on fight mechanics and how to tweak said rotation around the encounter, and not on which button to press.

Also yeah, learning the rotation is easier if you learn the 80, and just don't do the parts you don't have yet. Than starting 1 and changing along the way how you do stuff. Sometimes adding a skill isn't just one more button to press, it changes how you organize cooldowns, etc...
Doing so, you might not be doing an optimal 50, 60, 70 rotation, but no one cares, because if 1 -> 79 longs 30-50 hours, you spend thousands of hours max level. 80 rotation is a lot more important to learn.

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Originally Posted by Karshan

... 80 rotation is a lot more important to learn.

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The setup is still subjective to user preferences. And what your suggesting really comes down to user preference as well.

Some people learn better by having it explained to them and setting it all up before hand, others would rather just dive in play the game and set it up along the way.

I can see where someone who is completely new to MMOs might have trouble at first with setting up the bars. And some of those suggestions may work for them.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Well to be fair the default WASD controls are an active detriment to most rotations just because they forcibly combine the hotbars and movement/camera binds in a manner that makes both feel cramped. In pretty much every MMO I swap it out immediately and use the same setup I have used since I was a kid.

The reason WASD remains popular is purely because it overlaps better with action games that copied their standard controls from 90s FPS titles. Once you actually have to press 12-18 buttons regularly on top of movement and camera management an RTS setup works way better.

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I’d never really thought about moving the movement controls over into the central part of the keyboard, I can see where that could help some people.

I was playing those 90s FPS titles and used to controlling the camera with the mouse, a multi button mouse & modifier keys go along way for making 12 to 18 buttons extremely manageable without a lot of awkward effort.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

The setup is still subjective to user preferences. And what your suggesting really comes down to user preference as well.

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User preferences can be, and often are, wrong.

For example, someone who plays with only one hand on the keyboard would be wrong to assign their core combat actions to a 12 button hotbar bound to ctrl+alt+1 through ctrl+alt+equalsign.

A healer who clicks the party list to target and clicks their actions to execute them would be wrong to put the party list on the left edge of the screen and their action bars on the right edge of the screen.

I don't want to contribute to derailing this thread further. If you want to continue arguing with me about UI customization, please take an undergrad intro to human-computer interaction and start a new topic and I'll be happy to reply to that one.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

User preferences can be, and often are, wrong.

For example, someone who plays with only one hand on the keyboard would be wrong to assign their core combat actions to a 12 button hotbar bound to ctrl+alt+1 through ctrl+alt+equalsign.

A healer who clicks the party list to target and clicks their actions to execute them would be wrong to put the party list on the left edge of the screen and their action bars on the right edge of the screen.

I don't want to contribute to derailing this thread further. If you want to continue arguing with me about UI customization, please take an undergrad intro to human-computer interaction and start a new topic and I'll be happy to reply to that one.

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Seems like an aweful a lot of assumptions and hypotheticals. What works for you isn’t necessarily going to work for anyone else. You don’t need an undergrad human computer interaction to discuss UI customization, get over yourself.

Summoner is very difficult to get useable due to the amount of massive button-bloat it has. I reconfigured my hotbars 3 times before I finally got to a layout that felt natural and efficient. As others have said, if you're having trouble "getting it", https://www.akhmorning.com/jobs/smn/ has a lot of helpful information.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Once you actually have to press 12-18 buttons regularly on top of movement and camera management an RTS setup works way better.

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What is an RTS setup?
The only RTS I've played is StarCraft 64.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

What is an RTS setup?
The only RTS I've played is StarCraft 64.

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Most RTS binds focus on making the middle two rows (QWERTY/ASDFGH for most keyboards) handle as many context sensitive actions as possible (for buildings its upgrade/unit queues, for units its attacks, movement, and special abilities) then dedicate Ctrl/Alt/Shift and the number and F-number bars to handling camera hotspots and control groups, but the general case is that whatever's on ASDF is usually filling the role of your core controls, and everything else is segmented according to what the designers thought would be intuitive, and generally you don't want to be deviating from that unless you're doing something specific.

How that translates to my binds personally is I assign the most generic action I'm expected to press often to F (for healers I usually put Cure I equivalents there despite this game discouraging their use, for everyone else its their default attack) and I clamp sections of my rotation that fill similar roles to each row or column based on how little I want to move my fingers. Usually that means anything on 56/TY/GH/BN gets assigned to oGCDs while longer cooldowns go on 1-4 and QWER and I generally avoid using alt/ctrl/shift until it's strictly necessary, or for actions I want to keep in the same place across characters, like Role Actions and Limit Break/Sprint. I keep the same F-number key and Tab target setups as the default and have Shift for the Pet Hotbar, focus target, and Duty Actions.

I can honestly say that playing this on controller is amazing.

It still has its own issues, but in terms of ability use, I wouldn't play it any other way. I would heavily suggest that people look into trying out playing with controller, leveling a new job is a perfect time to do it. A few jobs have some ability bloat that makes it tough, but overall it's easy enough to get around.