48 Person Savage, Why?

Seriously, there is a reason there has not been a Savage version of any Alliance Raid before this point, and that reason is that it is near impossible to coordinate more than 8 people, much less 24, and now they expect people to coordinate 48 people? What were they thinking? My opinion: Extreme/ Savage/ Ultimate content should always be 8 person or less.

Probably because there hasn't been one yet?

This is meant to fill the same niche as Baldesion Arsenal did in Stormblood. It's not intended as part of ordinary raid progression like 8-man savages are.

Baldesion Arsenal was fun
and that was 56 people

big content like this always welcome imo

Because there were players who was begging for high-end raids that aren't standard 8 people. I mean, people like when DevTeam listens to feedback, right? /shrug

Also, not really bad to have this type of content for a change. I didn't do Savage one yet because I need to reach rank15 first, but normal versions of Litore and Delubrum were pretty fun.

Because some folks may like it. Maybe not you, but not all content is created for everybody.

I like it when the pretty lady punch me but like harder than normal. I like a larger than normal audience to watch the pretty lady punch me.

There have been many games before that have had raids involving many players, and while yes, coordinating that many is undeniably a challenge, demonstrably some people find overcoming that challenge part of the fun. And in this community, not just others; I know many people very excited about the Savage version of Delubrum Reginae. And although it has a savage designation, that doesn't mean it's necessarily meant to be for the exact same audience as the 8-person Savage content.

Because the Baldesion Arsenal and Delubrum Reginae (Savage) don't need to appeal to every single player, any more than any other pieces of content does. And as noted, I've seen enough people excited about it to think there's definitely at least some interest in it. Whether that proves to be enough interest to merit more of that type of content is anyone's guess.

Even if there is, it certainly shouldn't be the focus of the game, no; normal savage stuff should probably remain the progression raiding content. But as optional content, especially even more optional than existing progression savage (because it isn't a path to the best gear), why wouldn't there be space for one more type of content to tackle?

They just labeled it Savage to avoid the whole thing Baldesion Arsenal had where there was that joke of a warning, "Warning this is, like, really hard man. You better watchout. Cause it's hard, man." Then it was bosses that were slightly harder than dungeon bosses but with the lag induced by 48 people.

Just this time, they also made the normal mode, because it's part of a story.

Honestly, the biggest issue is just getting 48 competent players together in the first place.

There isn't that much coordination required for the boss fights and avoiding the mechanics is almost completely a personal effort.

The biggest coordination check is actually at the start of the instance with the slime/golem trash, so if your group can pass that there's a good chance you can do everything else.

These groups do exist on Data Centers, they're on Discord you won't find them here, all you got to do is ask around where they're. Very restrictive rules must be followed and obey callouts.

OP is part of the reasons we've been getting the same boring old content routine with extreme and savage 8-man content. There's a part of the playerbase that simply won't step out of their comfort zone.

This time they've been trying something new and hard on a large scale basis, basically what many people have requested for a long time. What does it matter if people don't clear it ? I understand the difficulty of finding 40+ decently good people but saying that they should not try anything other than 8-man content ? Come on...

If you're struggling to co-ordinate people or allow one person co-ordinate you and help make their life easier. That is on you.

My group is 2.5/8 so far, we hope to clear by 5.5

If you're struggling collecting players or forming up or vetting them to research the strategies, this is the bare minimum required, you probably weren't going to clear them anyway.

For decades other mmos have managed to co-ordinate guilds and raid bosses with way more than 48 people, in 2021 with better options available it should be way easier.

First. For the difficulty, DR savage right now is not like BA.
You could take 40 prepared first timer and clear BA without a problem. You can't do that with DR because the bosses itself have more mechanics and self responsibility.

DR savage is a full savage raid tier were you have to 1 shot every boss.
It is harder then your casual primal savage fight and needs a lot outside preparation.

But, we might get something to increase our bozja stats with the next part.
So right now it really is just something for the savage raider but after the last patch it could be a bit more casual friendly and the fight will overall be more forgiving.

We managed to coordinate 64 people for Dynamis back in FFXI. Git gud.

What is the idea of playing an MMORPG if we don't have "massive" content?

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Originally Posted by Styrmwyda

Seriously, there is a reason there has not been a Savage version of any Alliance Raid before this point, and that reason is that it is near impossible to coordinate more than 8 people, much less 24, and now they expect people to coordinate 48 people? What were they thinking? My opinion: Extreme/ Savage/ Ultimate content should always be 8 person or less.

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*doubt*

In WoW mythic raids have 20 players, and they seem to do just fine. Let hard content be hard.

Savage Alliance is a great idea but 48 is just far big to start off. 24 would have been a decent starting point, or even 12-24 flexible, along with FC event calenders and we might finally start to see FC raid teams.

Other MMO's have managed large scale hardcore content in the past, but they're very hard to coordinate and a lot of games have steered away from it over time. FF14's biggest problem is that FC's don't raid together, so you have to turn to discord or linkshells which are more impersonal because you often only see each other when it's raid time.

It's a shame how many people say "it's fine" or "git gud" when they probably won't step foot in this content, or if they do they'll be part of the 1% that get anything from it. Enix will then see it as niche because of low participation and decide not to expand on something that could really be a huge positive for the game done right. That guild/community feeling is sorely lacking.

I mean it should be hard but the death restrictions are pretty brutal, i rather see harder mechanics then having no chance to ress dead a player.
Also EU sadly dont have the playerbase for this kind of thing, i mean more half of the players in the normal raid dont even use the damage up actions given to them.
You think these guys would stand a chance in savage?

I mean all these cool actions are cool and stuff but ppl are so damn lazy or ignorant they dont even bother using them to their advantage wich is very sad if you ask me.
a Bad example for this are you see DPS using Platebearer and things you know the raid is going to take 1 hour to clear.

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Originally Posted by Teno

OP is part of the reasons we've been getting the same boring old content routine with extreme and savage 8-man content. There's a part of the playerbase that simply won't step out of their comfort zone.

This time they've been trying something new and hard on a large scale basis, basically what many people have requested for a long time. What does it matter if people don't clear it ? I understand the difficulty of finding 40+ decently good people but saying that they should not try anything other than 8-man content ? Come on...

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I actually think we should have more 4 person optional high difficulty content. Things where the two DPS, the Tank, and Healer must be on point.

*shrug* it just means I'd never want to set foot in it.
But that hardly even matters; since its locked behind Bozja, I'll never even unlock it.

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Originally Posted by Styrmwyda

I actually think we should have more 4 person optional high difficulty content. Things where the two DPS, the Tank, and Healer must be on point.

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I'd like a bit of both.
I absolutely love difficult content for small parties, preferably something that isn't at one fixed difficulty level and has either some form of dynamic scaling or tiered difficulty like M+ with some randomness to it to spice things up. Surprise mini bosses, monster spawns, nasty stuff dropping from the ceiling, traps you can't detect. Something like that to keep people on their toes. I don't think every class needs to be perfectly equally good at everything the randomness might throw at you; as long as every class is decent at everything and gets their turn at being good for something.
But large-scale stuff? It's fun in it's own way. I always enjoyed 25mans and huge battlefields that were chaotic, with lots of people running around and the extra challenge of coordinating in huge groups, escpecially for mechanics that limited your space.
It's a different kind of challenge than 8man or even 4man.

48 is overshooting the mark, something around 20ish people would have been nice. Alliance raids already have a different composition per alliance than 8mans, so it's not like the 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps per every 4 players is something that's set in stone.

Yall complain about everything lol like let the devs try new things or should we just get more of the same content....

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Originally Posted by Styrmwyda

48 Person Savage, Why?

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Because it is fun?
I don't plan on doing it anytime soon myself, but the raiding community seems to have a good time with it. So let them have it.

Honestly, it seems so well received that I hope they take it as an opportunity to add savage versions of the 24 man raids...It would give raiders something fun to do in odd-numbered patches.

As someone commented I think 48 is too high a number for FFXIV. FFXIV has never been characterized by having a large PVE scene of players and it is a matter of looking at the data taken from the censuses.
For this reason having to gather so many people in such a small scene will make that content can only be completed by an even smaller number of players, 24 players would have been something much better and more manageable but 48 seems exaggerated for a small community.

I can admit when I am wrong. Maybe large scale difficult content would be good, but we must walk before we run. 16 person (two party) savage raids would be a good start.

I can't wait to see clears with 48 PF randos, not just Ultimate Legends who can no life the content for several days in a row.

I wish they'd add ANY difficult small group or SOLO content. That's something I think everyone would try.

But nah, let's add some 96 man Savage raids next for the 1 FC on each server that has enough unemployed members to farm it.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I wish they'd add ANY difficult small group or SOLO content. That's something I think everyone would try.

But nah, let's add some 96 man Savage raids next for the 1 FC on each server that has enough unemployed members to farm it.

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I am not sure that many players tried the solo PotD challenge to be honest...

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Originally Posted by Garnix

I am not sure that many players tried the solo PotD challenge to be honest...

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Wasn't really solo content; it was group content you can enter solo if you want to do something pointless. May as well unsynch and get wrecked in an 80 dungeon solo.

Things like Brawlers guild in WoW, that were designed specifically to be challenging solo content, were plenty popular. And Mythic+ is way more popular than raids.

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Originally Posted by Teno

OP is part of the reasons we've been getting the same boring old content routine with extreme and savage 8-man content. There's a part of the playerbase that simply won't step out of their comfort zone.

This time they've been trying something new and hard on a large scale basis, basically what many people have requested for a long time. What does it matter if people don't clear it ? I understand the difficulty of finding 40+ decently good people but saying that they should not try anything other than 8-man content ? Come on...

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If it dies off within a month because both finding and coordinating with 40+ proves too difficult, then it becomes wasted content. Trying new things is nice and all, however they need to have longevity lest you end up with very little to do for months on end. Diadem, for instance, was new and bombed so hard it contributed to one of the sharpest player declines this game saw since post ARR. Naturally, Delubrum is far and away better content. Point is, making something new doesn't necessarily mean it's good value long term.

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Originally Posted by Styrmwyda

I actually think we should have more 4 person optional high difficulty content. Things where the two DPS, the Tank, and Healer must be on point.

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I mean, there's definitely room for that too! I'd love to see that content as well!

But just like it can be argued that 48-person high-end content is "impractical" and shouldn't be done, someone could try to make the argument "4 person savage content is dumb; nothing you can do with only four people will be worth the challenge; I think all high-end content should stick to 8 or more people so it can be scaled up." (And people would make that argument, because people are people and have widely varied opinions and a tendency to argue loudly when said opinions clash.)

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Originally Posted by Styrmwyda

I can admit when I am wrong. Maybe large scale difficult content would be good, but we must walk before we run. 16 person (two party) savage raids would be a good start.

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I think honestly it boils down to "It would be nice if high-end content had options other than single full-party fights." High-end content for light parties so there's something to tackle with a tank/healer/2-DPS makeup, high-end content for two full parties (or even Alliance Raid-style three-party setup)...

Or even 48 people.

Though I agree 48 could be a bit like leaping off a cliff in terms of party size, the fact that they're willing to try it at all excites me. Because if they're willing to change the formula up here, they might be willing to do so in other ways going into 6.x and onwards. Not in doing away with what already exists, of course -- there's probably always a place for the existing style of 8-person raids -- but in experimenting with giving us new stuff beyond that.

Maybe that stuff succeeds, maybe it falls flat, but we'll never know what stuff could really take off if they aren't willing to experiment in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I wish they'd add ANY difficult small group or SOLO content. That's something I think everyone would try.

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I agree that would be cool. But...

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

But nah, let's add some 96 man Savage raids next for the 1 FC on each server that has enough unemployed members to farm it.

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I mean, I'm in a 48-person Delubrum Reginae static that's forming for my datacenter; people are drawn from all over, not any one FC or anything. And no one's planning to no-life it; it's going to be a 3-hours-once-a-week thing. Our first run will be this coming Sunday. (We will die. A lot.)

I don't expect we'll clear soon (if at all, honestly). But I expect we're going to have fun trying.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

If it dies off within a month because both finding and coordinating with 40+ proves too difficult, then it becomes wasted content. Trying new things is nice and all, however they need to have longevity lest you end up with very little to do for months on end. Diadem, for instance, was new and bombed so hard it contributed to one of the sharpest player declines this game saw since post ARR. Naturally, Delubrum is far and away better content. Point is, making something new doesn't necessarily mean it's good value long term.

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BA still gets weekly runs even now. I can see this having some legs too, esoecially since its needed to get augmented judge armor

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

There have been many games before that have had raids involving many players, and while yes, coordinating that many is undeniably a challenge, demonstrably some people find overcoming that challenge part of the fun.

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LOL yeah we did 72 back in EQ. Talk about herding cats.

Though the boss with the highest kill count on us was Lag.

I think it's fine if they want to experiment. If participation is low, they can query why and adjust. Maybe 48 is too high and if they dialed it back in number that would work. But I think they won't get that data unless they throw it out there.