Live Letters Really Need To Start Being Translated

There's really no excuse for the live letter to continue to offer no translation outside incredibly brief English translations on the slides. Even tonight's live letter isn't going to get a real translation. Just the usual ""Please note that the presentation slides will include both Japanese and English text, but the presentation audio will be in Japanese only." crumbs.

If it means live letters are no longer live but pre-recorded so there can be a translation, so be it. There's no advantage to live letters when they're just streamed online anyways.

They don't even have to go all out like Nintendo does with their Smash videos and dub it. Just give us subtitles. Would let the community feel more in sync and not have most the players relying on possibly faulty fan translations on the fly during the live letters.

Absolutely agree. The confusion over the relic has made that clear. We can't be expected to rely on unofficial translations that can't agree on the exact wording. We need something definitive and official from SE.

While not quite as fast as subtitles, there was a point where they provided official translations just a few minute behind. Personally, I felt it was very welcomed - while I appreciate the efforts of fan translators, sometimes those fan translations are weird, unreliable, and missing important details (because, yeah, translation is hard, especially untrained). It would be great if we got even that back.

Although from what I've heard, at least the announcement stream will have official translation?

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The FINAL FANTASY XIV Announcement Showcase is set for Friday, February 5! The broadcast will include live interpretation from Japanese to English so come enjoy the live announcements with Warriors of Light around the world!

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Source: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0e2873ec19fab3

I think it is safe to say you'll get more than just some slides, for this announcement. So that's good.

Not that I am opposed to other streams getting more English support lol, live translations of those Live Letters would be neat. I am curious if BlizzCon's free access event will have the live subtitles I've seen for other events. For SELECT events they have live subtitles in multiple languages, which I always thought was neat. To be fair Blizzcon isn't as often as a live letter though, and at least we'll have live English translations.

I'm sure there is some sort of special pain and cost involved, but.. certainly would be a "would be nice" concept lol.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Absolutely agree. The confusion over the relic has made that clear. We can't be expected to rely on unofficial translations that can't agree on the exact wording. We need something definitive and official from SE.

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People will still argue over the wording Square officially releases. I’m all for proper translations, but don’t kid yourself by thinking the relic situation would’ve been any different if Square had an official “you must do the bozja storyline” comment. Which they did.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

While not quite as fast as subtitles, there was a point where they provided official translations just a few minute behind. Personally, I felt it was very welcomed - while I appreciate the efforts of fan translators, sometimes those fan translations are weird, unreliable, and missing important details (because, yeah, translation is hard, especially untrained). It would be great if we got even that back.

Although from what I've heard, at least the announcement stream will have official translation?

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I thought they had done official translations before but then thought I was crazy when I didn't see anything now. They used to post them on a special place here on the forums, right? It's been some time so my memory could be faulty.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I thought they had done official translations before but then thought I was crazy when I didn't see anything now. They used to post them on a special place here on the forums, right? It's been some time so my memory could be faulty.

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You're looking for:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Producer-LIVE
&
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...m-the-Producer

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Originally Posted by van_arn

People will still argue over the wording Square officially releases. I’m all for proper translations, but don’t kid yourself by thinking the relic situation would’ve been any different if Square had an official “you must do the bozja storyline” comment. Which they did.

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Not in English that I could find. Just unofficial stuff. If I missed a link in a Google search, please, I'd love to have it. That will help me refine my search parameters in the future.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

You're looking for:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Producer-LIVE
&
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...m-the-Producer

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Aha, thank you! I knew I remembered something.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

People will still argue over the wording Square officially releases. I’m all for proper translations, but don’t kid yourself by thinking the relic situation would’ve been any different if Square had an official “you must do the bozja storyline” comment. Which they did.

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Yes, but in English people were not clear on what 'the Bozja storyline' was; I know a lot of people who thought the Bozjan Southern Front questline was just a side-quest to give people an alternate path to grinding the relic materials, and that the Bozja storyline would just be continued on separate from it, the way the relic questline started. (And while it's fairly obvious by the time you reach Castrum Lacus Litore that the Southern Front storyline is very closely tied to the storyline that began with Cid and the others and led to the first relic stage, those who never went into the Southern Front and never made it to Castrum never had the very obvious storyline clue there.)

And some of that is that Square-Enix's English summary after the fact was unclear, and that's 100% on Square-Enix.

But some of it is also that translating things from one language to another requires awareness of intent; that the English summary was vague enough to be misunderstood is on Square-Enix, but that the actual running commentary of the live letter was unclear is on the fan translators. (Not that they're at fault; they are always stuck translating without knowing what Square-Enix's intention is, and also trying to do so while keeping up a running live translation in real-time. Even if you get context for one unclear bit within the live letter, trying to do live translations is frazzling and bits like that can be overlooked.)

With Square-Enix translating the actual presentations and preparing the translators ahead of time, the translator would not have had to wonder "what do they mean by this particular bit? I could interpret it as meaning <A> or <B>..." and take a guess on-the-spot; they'd be able to ask someone else "hey, do you know if they mean <A> or <B> for this bit here?" and have a more clearly-phrased translated summary ahead-of-time.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Source: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0e2873ec19fab3

I think it is safe to say you'll get more than just some slides, for this announcement.

Not that I am opposed to other streams getting more English support lol, live translations of those would be neat. I am curious if BlizzCon's free access event will have the live subtitles I've seen for other events. For SELECT events they have live subtitles in multiple languages, which I always thought was neat. To be fair Blizzcon isn't as often as a live letter though, and at least we'll have live English translations.

I'm sure there is some sort of special pain and cost involved, but.. certainly would be a "would be nice" concept lol.

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for the event yes, but the OP is talking about the Live Letters. Which the LL following RIGHT AFTER the translated event, won't have translations

We're getting real translations for the 6.0 showcase.

Then it will immediately cut to no translation outside of some slide notes for the 5.5 live letter.


Proper translations should not be a sometimes thing. They should be a standard thing for communicating to your customers.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Yes, but in English people were not clear on what 'the Bozja storyline' was; I know a lot of people who thought the Bozjan Southern Front questline was just a side-quest to give people an alternate path to grinding the relic materials, and that the Bozja storyline would just be continued on separate from it, the way the relic questline started.

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Bingo. If you didn't experience the story, you had no idea it wasn't a side quest alternative to unlock updates in Bozja. Especially when the first quest came outside that zone. That was the part they needed to strengthen clarity on.

Also, this question has been around various places for months now. It's been asked here on the forums. It's been asked on Reddit. It's been asked on Twitter. SE has had time to give that clarity in a definitive way but they didn't bother. Maybe that's a failing of the English Community teams, but if so, someone higher up needs to address that.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Yes, but in English people were not clear on what 'the Bozja storyline' was; I know a lot of people who thought the Bozjan Southern Front questline was just a side-quest to give people an alternate path to grinding the relic materials, and that the Bozja storyline would just be continued on separate from it, the way the relic questline started. (And while it's fairly obvious by the time you reach Castrum Lacus Litore that the Southern Front storyline is very closely tied to the storyline that began with Cid and the others and led to the first relic stage, those who never went into the Southern Front and never made it to Castrum never had the very obvious storyline clue there.)

And some of that is that Square-Enix's English summary after the fact was unclear, and that's 100% on Square-Enix.

But some of it is also that translating things from one language to another requires awareness of intent; that the English summary was vague enough to be misunderstood is on Square-Enix, but that the actual running commentary of the live letter was unclear is on the fan translators. (Not that they're at fault; they are always stuck translating without knowing what Square-Enix's intention is, and also trying to do so while keeping up a running live translation in real-time. Even if you get context for one unclear bit within the live letter, trying to do live translations is frazzling and bits like that can be overlooked.)

With Square-Enix translating the actual presentations and preparing the translators ahead of time, the translator would not have had to wonder "what do they mean by this particular bit? I could interpret it as meaning <A> or <B>..." and take a guess on-the-spot; they'd be able to ask someone else "hey, do you know if they mean <A> or <B> for this bit here?" and have a more clearly-phrased translated summary ahead-of-time.

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Perfect example of what I said. Square said what they intended, and a facet of the community didn’t believe it and instead convinced themselves to look for something that isn’t there. No amount of clarification is enough in this situation; had Square posted “clarification” then people would be mad they didn’t get clarification of clarification. Or they would’ve argued over the intent of that clarification, and got mad when square’s intent didn’t match with their theory of square’s intention.

Do the bozja story. That includes castrum.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Aha, thank you! I knew I remembered something.

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Np :)

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Yes, but in English people were not clear on what 'the Bozja storyline' was; I know a lot of people who thought the Bozjan Southern Front questline was just a side-quest to give people an alternate path to grinding the relic materials, and that the Bozja storyline would just be continued on separate from it, the way the relic questline started. (And while it's fairly obvious by the time you reach Castrum Lacus Litore that the Southern Front storyline is very closely tied to the storyline that began with Cid and the others and led to the first relic stage, those who never went into the Southern Front and never made it to Castrum never had the very obvious storyline clue there.)

And some of that is that Square-Enix's English summary after the fact was unclear, and that's 100% on Square-Enix.

But some of it is also that translating things from one language to another requires awareness of intent; that the English summary was vague enough to be misunderstood is on Square-Enix, but that the actual running commentary of the live letter was unclear is on the fan translators. (Not that they're at fault; they are always stuck translating without knowing what Square-Enix's intention is, and also trying to do so while keeping up a running live translation in real-time. Even if you get context for one unclear bit within the live letter, trying to do live translations is frazzling and bits like that can be overlooked.)

With Square-Enix translating the actual presentations and preparing the translators ahead of time, the translator would not have had to wonder "what do they mean by this particular bit? I could interpret it as meaning <A> or <B>..." and take a guess on-the-spot; they'd be able to ask someone else "hey, do you know if they mean <A> or <B> for this bit here?" and have a more clearly-phrased translated summary ahead-of-time.

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There are absolutely times when people ran 800 yalms with SE's words.. of course lol, but there are also times where SE said something to an official capacity and it was obvious that it should have been worded better and there is nothing else to say about it but "that could have gone down more clearly.." lol.

Which is just really a longer convoluted way of me just saying I agree and also I would love to see more communication from the team not less, if something doesn't go down right just try again, but don't try less, hopefully more. We hardly hear from our community managers, I'm sure they've something to do, but if you compare it to some western, even mmo, devs it's pretty silent over here lol.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Perfect example of what I said. Square said what they intended, and a facet of the community didn’t believe it and instead convinced themselves to look for something that isn’t there. No amount of clarification is enough in this situation; had Square posted “clarification” then people would be mad they didn’t get clarification of clarification. Or they would’ve argued over the intent of that clarification, and got mad when square’s intent didn’t match with their theory of square’s intention.

Do the bozja story. That includes castrum.

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I'm frequently on the same page as you in other threads, but on this one I disagree. Yes, people will always misinterpret things or expect different than what's actually delivered, but this case was unusually egregious.

People were of the belief that the relic would require no interaction with the Southern Front, some so loudly vehemently that I started second guessing my own interpretation that Castrum et al were required; people were so absolutely convinced that Square-Enix had promised this one thing that I started to half-suspect I must've overlooked where they did so (even though it didn't make sense to me how the Bozjan storyline could continue without what happened in Castrum being addressed).

They held these opinions loudly, vehemently, and publicly on Twitter, on Reddit, on these very forums, and even in some cases in gaming publications.

Even without a translation in that live letter, Square could've communicated a specific clarification much earlier when the confusion became obvious (and widespread); some people would still have misinterpreted it or chosen not to believe it, no doubt, but I think a lot of people would've been less blindsided. But when they did offer a clarification (in November's live letter) it was done in Japanese, and left to the fan-translators to disseminate. Which did not really help stem the tide of people absolutely convinced the earlier interpretation was correct.

I think in most cases the information has gotten out more-or-less accurately, even if it sometimes took a while. But this was a particularly dramatic and widespread misinterpretation, and it's one that could've been avoided. And because it was avoidable, I do feel the process by which they communicate stuff like this could maybe stand to have some refinement.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

I'm frequently on the same page as you in other threads, but on this one I disagree. Yes, people will always misinterpret things or expect different than what's actually delivered, but this case was unusually egregious.

People were of the belief that the relic would require no interaction with the Southern Front, some so loudly vehemently that I started second guessing my own interpretation that Castrum et al were required; people were so absolutely convinced that Square-Enix had promised this one thing that I started to half-suspect I must've overlooked where they did so (even though it didn't make sense to me how the Bozjan storyline could continue without what happened in Castrum being addressed).

They held these opinions loudly, vehemently, and publicly on Twitter, on Reddit, on these very forums, and even in some cases in gaming publications.

Even without a translation in that live letter, Square could've communicated a specific clarification much earlier when the confusion became obvious (and widespread); some people would still have misinterpreted it or chosen not to believe it, no doubt, but I think a lot of people would've been less blindsided. But when they did offer a clarification (in November's live letter) it was done in Japanese, and left to the fan-translators to disseminate. Which did not really help stem the tide of people absolutely convinced the earlier interpretation was correct.

I think in most cases the information has gotten out more-or-less accurately, even if it sometimes took a while. But this was a particularly dramatic and widespread misinterpretation, and it's one that could've been avoided. And because it was avoidable, I do feel the process by which they communicate stuff like this could maybe stand to have some refinement.

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Perhaps things could have unfolded differently, perhaps they wouldn’t have.

I can’t help but suspect we get the information in the format and volume we do because Square has seen how the community reacts to just about everything over the last decade.

I’d suspect there was a consideration to emphasize the storyline requirement more than they already had.

If I were in their shoes, I would have avoided saying anything more than I already had. Saying more would have only led to arguments and demands for things to change, but the decision had already been made and announced. In a very real way, additional “clarification” would not really land us in a place different than we are already.

All of that aside, there’s no more room for interpretation or misinterpretation. If you want the relic, no matter what your plans were, you know what you need to do now.

Do it or don’t. You might manage to get a “sry well do better nekst tiem lol!” from Square, but don’t expect any sort of recognition beyond lip service for this.

I find some Live Letters sometimes to be very bizzare to watch. You'll have whole minutes of them talking about something, and because there's no slide with it you don't understand, then whoever is looking at fan translations starts to talk about something important that you missed... Even more so when they have another team member talking about what they do and there's no translation whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I can’t help but suspect we get the information in the format and volume we do because Square has seen how the community reacts to just about everything over the last decade.

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That's fair, and I'll concede the point. We certainly know a lot of other changes to the game are in response to how the community has handled things. (How many people complaining that AST cards are 'all the balance now and nothing else' also always fished for Balance and ignored the other cards previously?) And I do agree it's clear now, regardless of the road that got us here.

Moreover, I'm personally fine with the situation; I enjoy Castrum and Delubrum, and am happy to run them to help other people.

I just also feel like there's an unusually high amount of Large Feelings and Loud Drama going around the community right now over this which could potentially have been avoided.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

If I were in their shoes, I would have avoided saying anything more than I already had. Saying more would have only led to arguments and demands for things to change, but the decision had already been made and announced.

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That encourages them to hide from their feedback and the repercussions of their actions. If they know something is going to anger their players, they need to be able to take their knocks for it. Especially if it's because they ignored previous feedback. And if it's early enough, maybe that feedback could result in some good changes.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

That encourages them to hide from their feedback and the repercussions of their actions. If they know something is going to anger their players, they need to be able to take their knocks for it. Especially if it's because they ignored previous feedback. And if it's early enough, maybe that feedback could result in some good changes.

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And that’s precisely why they didn’t say anything more until it was too late. If the community wants more communication with the developer, then be worth communicating with. Not at.

I don't think players would want to sit through Live Letters that are running 4-6 hours because everything has to be said twice with pauses to get clarification on meaning. If you go back through some of the old VODs of Live Letters and panels that had live translation, they took an awful long time for not much to be said.

What would be helpful is for the translated Live Letter digests to be posted within 24 hours of a Live Letter, and for those translations to be much closer to what is being said during the Live Letter instead of vague summaries.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Perhaps things could have unfolded differently, perhaps they wouldn’t have.

I can’t help but suspect we get the information in the format and volume we do because Square has seen how the community reacts to just about everything over the last decade.

I’d suspect there was a consideration to emphasize the storyline requirement more than they already had.

If I were in their shoes, I would have avoided saying anything more than I already had. Saying more would have only led to arguments and demands for things to change, but the decision had already been made and announced. In a very real way, additional “clarification” would not really land us in a place different than we are already.

All of that aside, there’s no more room for interpretation or misinterpretation. If you want the relic, no matter what your plans were, you know what you need to do now.

Do it or don’t. You might manage to get a “sry well do better nekst tiem lol!” from Square, but don’t expect any sort of recognition beyond lip service for this.

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If SE thinks we suck, which we might... lol, and just is like "NO I HATE TALKING TO THEM!".. then it's well within their ability to just choose not to talk to us. I suppose, not that anyone has to like or encourage that.

But we do have active company examples, of video games, that have had a fairly successful and perhaps improved fan following, due to their communication abilities.

I wouldn't say SE is the worst, because I've seen companies go for basically nothing if not literally. But I definitely wouldn't say they're the best at it either, in their own field even (MMO, RPG).

I would 'like' for them to improve their communication, and I can guarantee that it wont always be in their favor, but I would hope they could get to a state where it's more often and more consistently understood as intended. It'll never be perfect but I do think it could be better.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I don't think players would want to sit through Live Letters that are running 4-6 hours because everything has to be said twice with pauses to get clarification on meaning. If you go back through some of the old VODs of Live Letters and panels that had live translation, they took an awful long time for not much to be said.

What would be helpful is for the translated Live Letter digests to be posted within 24 hours of a Live Letter, and for those translations to be much closer to what is being said during the Live Letter instead of vague summaries.

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Or just start pre-recording them and add subtitles in supported languages then post for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

If SE thinks we suck, which we might... lol, and just is like "NO I HATE TALKING TO THEM!".. then it's well within their ability to just choose not to talk to us. I suppose, not that anyone has to like or encourage that.

But we do have active company examples, of video games, that have had a fairly successful and perhaps improved fan following, due to their communication abilities.

I wouldn't say SE is the worst, because I've seen companies go for basically nothing if not literally. But I definitely wouldn't say they're the best at it either, in their own field even (MMO, RPG).

I would 'like' for them to improve their communication, and I can guarantee that it wont always be in their favor, but I would hope they could get to a state where it's more often and more consistently understood as intended. It'll never be perfect but I do think it could be better.

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There’s plenty of examples of too much communication that ends in the icarus resolution. There’s a balance to maintain, and unpopular decisions are best handled talking at a community rather than with.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

There’s plenty of examples of too much communication that ends in the icarus resolution. There’s a balance to maintain, and unpopular decisions are best handled talking at a community rather than with.

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Of course! But we are no where near Icarus heights in terms of communication. Imo. lol

I'll just be over here getting my card ready.....

https://i.redd.it/w76atgt5vpf61.jpg

(Shamelessly stolen from Reddit.)

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I'll just be over here getting my card ready.....

https://i.redd.it/w76atgt5vpf61.jpg

(Shamelessly stolen from Reddit.)

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I'll take it!

Little sad Ronso's piece isn't in the middle but this is content focused rather than response focused so.. I'll take it!

I will see you people tomorrow lol. Also it's sweet of you to give proper credit.. I just wanted to say I read that and then smiled (not sarcasm).

Don't North American players outnumber Japanese players?

Neglecting half or more of the player base doesn't make sense to me. The previous comment about it being important for useful community feedback -- when it would be most useful! -- is important.

Is there a place to see the slides? I can wait on the commentary translation but I would like to read the on-slide notes.

Live letters need to be english and JP. There is no need for them to be only JP when you have a large english player base. I saw in the announcement the guy who did local translations for FF 11 (he was also in FF 14 doc about how the game was remade) Why can't he and his team translate?

What I don't understand about LL is how long the english translation takes to get posted. They are comfortable performing their PR show in japanese. That is 100% fine. Is it so complicated to have figured out the important stuff ahead of time and have english translation posted. It would be nice that is they support french and german that it was also posted in those languages at the same time. They can't possibly be like lets turn the camera on and act like random twitch streamer and spout whatever.