Delubrum Reginae death penalty

why did they penalize players so bad for doing Delubrum Reginae? i lost 100k mettle doing that place for the first time and ill never go back for any reason. i have been playing this game since 1.0 and just cant believe the devs did this. its just horrible and now i don't even want to play anymore.

SE seems obsessed with bringing back the days of FFXI, complete with large punishments for failure. It's honestly a step backward if you ask me. No one should be doing a relic and feel like they're losing progress.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

No one should be doing a relic and feel like they're losing progress.

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That's very true.
And I feel it's compounded by the fact that the Bozjan Lost Actions are consumable so you can use those up while losing progress.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

SE seems obsessed with bringing back the days of FFXI, complete with large punishments for failure. It's honestly a step backward if you ask me. No one should be doing a relic and feel like they're losing progress.

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For real, did they swap out their dev team with the XI team wholesale or something? Whoever the devs for this zone are obviously have a hard-on for EQ/FFXI-era games and don't seem to have realized there's a reason those are virtual ghost towns now.

how dare you !!!11oneoneene
can't you see the big picture se has? there's reason why they don't give a fck about the community intakes and stay true to their vision, you and everyone else just can't see that.

someone hit me up when the reson is found, or maybe se stopped smokin crack.

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Originally Posted by Boldprint

why did they penalize players so bad for doing Delubrum Reginae? i lost 100k mettle doing that place for the first time and ill never go back for any reason. i have been playing this game since 1.0 and just cant believe the devs did this. its just horrible and now i don't even want to play anymore.

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I cleared DR 3 times, lost 100k mettle and i reached 700k again. Is really a problem?

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Originally Posted by Demoniun

I cleared DR 3 times, lost 100k mettle and i reached 700k again. Is really a problem?

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yes there is. because the penalty in bozja is what turns a lot of people off this content.
do you think it's fun for a r10-r12 to run castrum and getting wipped 50k only to regrind it?
since they also nerfed the amount of CM encounters, it only became worse to grind up in bozja without becoming totaly braindead because you just run from one fate to another and hope you get in time there bevor it's gone.

don't get me wrong, i like the idea behind bozja, also the raid could be a way more fun, but certain desgin points are just crap and shows that se doesn't give a shit.

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Originally Posted by Demoniun

I cleared DR 3 times, lost 100k mettle and i reached 700k again. Is really a problem?

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Yes, because it's ultimately a tedious and arbitrary way to increase content longevity. People are spamming CEs not necessarily for their relic progression, rewards or sheer enjoyment but because the game actively forces them to after a pointless punishment. It wouldn't be so bad if Castrum and DR gave Mettle upon completion, however they don't. Which is one of the many reasons no one wants to touch Castrum nowadays. Not only do the rewards suck relative to time invested, you risk losing mettle. It's a poorly thought out system that's desperately trying to hype up nostalgia in a way no one liked. It isn't fun deleveling or losing EXP because the route to regaining it is boring.

Just put Litore and Delubrum in the alliance raid finder next to the Yorha Raids and the problem is solved, putting this content in an extra zone that pops up randomly and will be dead soon is just bad design on the long run.

Wow I'm sorry you lost all that mettle what were you planning to spend it on?

you will most likely need it back for the final zone.

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Originally Posted by TurtlesAWD

Wow I'm sorry you lost all that mettle what were you planning to spend it on?

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It might be hard to comprehend, but not everyone is at Rank 15.

Wow, 100k? And I came here to complain about losing 15k on my first run. Maybe because I'm only Rank 12?
(15-16 deaths at -946 mettle each) And yes, the mettle penalty is too much. How many hours will I have to grind to make up for 1 DR run?
PLUS, how many players WILL NOT accept rezzes just so they don't have to lose excessive mettle? Did SE think of that? Thus making more people die than need to.
IMO, if not outright removing the stupid mettle loses in Bozja, then each death penalty should be lower than the previous one. Cause not all of us are great players no matter how much practice we get.

Only people at Rank 15 will run DR. And if a higher Rank comes they'll really be screaming because of all the mettle they lost and didn't care about at that time.
I never win rolls on drops for cool items so I have no plans to enter here any more than I need to for quests.
This place will die faster than castrum lacus litore did!
Whomever thought up the mettle idea needs to see a therapist about their sadistic tendencies.

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Originally Posted by Dracounguis

It might be hard to comprehend, but not everyone is at Rank 15.

Wow, 100k? And I came here to complain about losing 15k on my first run. Maybe because I'm only Rank 12?
(15-16 deaths at -946 mettle each) And yes, the mettle penalty is too much. How many hours will I have to grind to make up for 1 DR run?
PLUS, how many players WILL NOT accept rezzes just so they don't have to lose excessive mettle? Did SE think of that? Thus making more people die than need to.
IMO, if not outright removing the stupid mettle loses in Bozja, then each death penalty should be lower than the previous one. Cause not all of us are great players no matter how much practice we get.

Only people at Rank 15 will run DR. And if a higher Rank comes they'll really be screaming because of all the mettle they lost and didn't care about at that time.
I never win rolls on drops for cool items so I have no plans to enter here any more than I need to for quests.
This place will die faster than castrum lacus litore did!
Whomever thought up the mettle idea needs to see a therapist about their sadistic tendencies.

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Yeah, higher ranks lose more each death. One wipe in DB cost me about 15k. There seems to a bet amount based on your rank.

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Originally Posted by Schwarzstahl

how dare you !!!11oneoneene
can't you see the big picture se has? there's reason why they don't give a fck about the community intakes and stay true to their vision, you and everyone else just can't see that.

someone hit me up when the reson is found, or maybe se stopped smokin crack.

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Oh jeez, don't give me flashbacks of The Vision from EverQuest. We got that bs from them constantly.

There are 2 problems here that I see

1) Not everyone is rank 15, therefore they actually need the mettle

2) People think rank makes you more powerful. It does not. Its just fancy number. Or they think you can "de-level" down a rank (spoiler: you cant)

On point 2.. people will start leaving middle of instance because "omg I lost mettle screw this I dont wanna lose more!!". Already seen it happen in Castrum first weeks when it was alive and few times in Del on day two.

Yeah I get it, peoples time is limited or some just want to be carried and dont have time for groups that wipe on first boss because people were new on day 2. But like, mistakes happen. Thats humane. People will try fix it. But cant because 8 people left after one wipe. At least its relatively fast to get into thanks to "duty finder"

Losing mettle is pointless because mettle is pointless. Its just death punishment thats de-moralising for no reason. But since its there, people will start to leave mid CLL or DEL because of that?

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Originally Posted by TurtlesAWD

Wow I'm sorry you lost all that mettle what were you planning to spend it on?

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It is a pointless penalty that serves no purpose and a 10+ year old outdated design decision that was arbitrarily placed in this raid after SO MUCH feedback of why Castrum failed. For such amazing boss and sound design to be ruined by poor system design seems like a complete waste.

I guess get better at dodging stuff?

I know, I lost 100k doing it tonight. The penalty is so severe that I am sure this will also die, especially with the balancing issues involved with it. The way it runs, it makes me think Yoshi was around Yoko Taro a bit too long.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who felt like this was a stupid decision. If this worked like Eureka you wouldn't lose mettle on death, only if you released. I mean at this point I don't even want to do this thing unless I'm rank 15 and do not need mettle anymore. I mean I just hit rank 13, I'm assuming the amount of mettle has increased when dying, and my only hope is that I'm good enough to not die repeatedly during the instance after having done my first clear now.

But how? On my first time we had a full wipe, i died like 20x at least - rather more - and i still barely lost 60k. And i was in a party with one healer and no tanks lol. So many deaths to doom.... >_<

Anyhow yes its a bit too much, the insta 5 sec doom and some mechanics... BUT i dont think they are "too hard", just not wise... as that one with the fast traveling donut aoe... like, i only manage that when im lucky...


EDIT: Colt: i got 702k on 15 and lose 2900-something on my death and i think it was 16 or 16k on a fullwipe.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

But how? On my first time we had a full wipe, i died like 20x at least - rather more - and i still barely lost 60k. And i was in a party with one healer and no tanks lol. So many deaths to doom.... >_<

Anyhow yes its a bit too much, the insta 5 sec doom and some mechanics... BUT i dont think they are "too hard", just not wise... as that one with the fast traveling donut aoe... like, i only manage that when im lucky...


EDIT: Colt: i got 702k on 15 and lose 2900-something on my death and i think it was 16 or 16k on a fullwipe.

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Yeah I am doing savage right now and this is nothing in comparison. The reason people feel it is hard is due to the cheap deaths from doom counters and how bad it feels to die multiple times, especially on that third boss. Rank 12 it was 900 something per death. I went into Bazja yesterday and farmed like crazy. Made it to rank 13 by the end of the day so at least I feel a bit better now about losing that mettle. Personally, I think the armor from delibrum is a mixed bag anyway so it might not even be worth the time. It has that long cape thing that tails clip through on the tank armor.

It's really just Bazja being a designed mess with not a lot of instruction on how to do things that makes this a nightmare. Okay, we reflect farm to get certain actions, but then you have to use lost death to farm other actions for duels, people do the duels and are like "how do you even beat this thing?" and have to go to the internet to figure out where to get the actions needed for it. Some actions only come from Castrum and that is horrible to run. Heck, I got a cluster farm sort of going, and then realized the people didn't understand you have to kill mechs to get the clusters and were killing the wildlife with a few mechs, wondering why so few clusters were dropping, and then we got people doing HW fate trains to get the relic materials when you can get them at a pretty good clip just mass farming clusters in Bazja. BUT NO ONE TELLS ANYONE THIS!

Edit: I guess you could say that mettle is the main resource of Bazja and in a well designed system, that resource would be used to bread crumb into these other types of farm activities. That and in a well designed system, the penalties from death would be used to encourage people to keep going. In the case of this system it just discourages it since you are losing resources for lesser side resources, or just strait losing them with no benefit.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

I guess get better at dodging stuff?

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Most of my deaths are simply from playing too efficiently. I play WHM, pop a Deep Aetherweaver or Profane and line up Font of Mana+Noble Ends with Misery burst. It works great, but the moment the tank dies, the squishy healer is top aggro and ends up on the chopping block. You can't dodge tankbusters.

Sure I could healbot and slow the run down, but then the next on dps gets axed. I can't say I'm a fan of punishment for contributing as much as possible to the team.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

I guess get better at dodging stuff?

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Well that's the thing, the one boss with the hot/cold temperature mechanics you kinda need to get hit... with the right attack, or it's K.O. for you.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Most of my deaths are simply from playing too efficiently. I play WHM, pop a Deep Aetherweaver or Profane and line up Font of Mana+Noble Ends with Misery burst. It works great, but the moment the tank dies, the squishy healer is top aggro and ends up on the chopping block. You can't dodge tankbusters.

Sure I could healbot and slow the run down, but then the next on dps gets axed. I can't say I'm a fan of punishment for contributing as much as possible to the team.

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Yeah this is a legit complaint. I've died plenty of times before cause a tank died and ripped aggro from all the other dps with Aetherweave and font of magic and other dps boosting ability. Its actually pretty amazing the numbers you can put out. Even worse is when you got a bunch of tanks around and none want to grab aggro. So now a days I try to feel out groups before I commit to big damage like that.

I'm so not surprised at SE for this. When I went into Bozja the first time I told friends, this had better not be a repeat of Eureka, and they said Oh no SE took the player feed back to heart and made some big changes. After grinding my way to Rank 13 and doing Delubrum Reginae once I can safely say I won't be back, and can also say that our feedback was treated about same as when I ask my son to clean his room. I had enough of this kind of punishment from back when I played FFXI, and guess what I dropped when I needed more money in my budget 12 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Boldprint

i have been playing this game since 1.0 and just cant believe the devs did this. its just horrible and now i don't even want to play anymore.

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So you've been playing for 10+ years and never went to Eureka and Baldesion Arsenal?
It's not like we've been blindsided by this.

Also, I'm just throwing this out there but imo DR Savage is some of the most fun content we have right now.

Agreed, I want more like DR. DR savage was a great time IMO.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

I guess get better at dodging stuff?

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Yeah I mean... you can't lose mettle if you don't die. Just die less and problem solved. Feels like a git gud kind of problem.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

SE seems obsessed with bringing back the days of FFXI, complete with large punishments for failure. It's honestly a step backward if you ask me. No one should be doing a relic and feel like they're losing progress.

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Mettle is easy to get anyway. Castrums are like 50k per. And it's not so bad as doesn't matter if you lose 700k you can't de rank.

Punishing for failure isn't that bad imo. It makes you feel like your life is valuable. And often seems to make players pay that little bit more attention to what's going on. Which isn't such a bad thing imo

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Also, I'm just throwing this out there but imo DR Savage is some of the most fun content we have right now.

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Would be nice if it was not gated behind finding players to do so (Discord does work but at least in the one I'm in the amount of players gets less and less everyday) and was actually worth running after your first win. I would like to see more content like it but I want one that's puggable. I'm crazy I know but I actually enjoy that lol.

I love this debuff. There is a definite higher quality of play in most of the runs.

In the first few runs I also died a few times from it. Yes. But never that many times to lose 100k points.

Since then I haven't died from that debuff once at all. You just have to keep your eyes open, watch what abilities your opponents use (castbar), remember what those abilities do and you have to be able to count to 4 on the final boss.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

It's really just Bazja being a designed mess with not a lot of instruction on how to do things that makes this a nightmare. Okay, we reflect farm to get certain actions, but then you have to use lost death to farm other actions for duels, people do the duels and are like "how do you even beat this thing?" and have to go to the internet to figure out where to get the actions needed for it. Some actions only come from Castrum and that is horrible to run. Heck, I got a cluster farm sort of going, and then realized the people didn't understand you have to kill mechs to get the clusters and were killing the wildlife with a few mechs, wondering why so few clusters were dropping, and then we got people doing HW fate trains to get the relic materials when you can get them at a pretty good clip just mass farming clusters in Bazja. BUT NO ONE TELLS ANYONE THIS!

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No, because it's an MMO and SE actually wants people to work together to figure this stuff out for themselves.

It seems they've changed it. Clearing DR now seems to throw roughlyn70k mettle at you. (Might vary depending on rank?)

But there ya go no punishment for dying. Even if you did terribly and died 20 times you'd still end with more mettle than you started with.

I love the debuff, but really do not like losing mettle when dying in general. Could they not add that to content where dying only prevents progression/makes it harder rather than cause regression?

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Originally Posted by TurtlesAWD

Wow I'm sorry you lost all that mettle what were you planning to spend it on?

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Given Ray grinding, this post aged wonderfully, didn't it?