Lamia NN: Repeated Harassments by One Player

I want to start by saying that this is not a witch hunt and is by no means a call to seek out this player and harass them, or worse, give them the attention they obviously seek. I am only bringing up this issue because of the repeated failures to have this person banned from the NN through their accounts. I will not list names, but mentors, returners and sprouts alike will know this person with even just this mention. I will say this is the only attention I will give them, and I encourage other people to share this thread with those who may not be aware of the situation. The Novice Network is a flawed system that we unfortunately have to deal with.

I encourage you read this in it's entirety.

I want to address the underlining issues with this singular individual through my first hand experience. Though others will say that this individual's accounts and behavior extend back far beyond the recent issues I can only go based off my own certainties. This person has multiple character spanning over, at least, 2 ffxiv accounts. When they are warned and eventually banned from NN chat they evade the ban and continue their behavior on another character/account. They bring up topics that multiple mentors ask them to drop and REPEATEDLY call attention to those individuals to the point of flooding chat with spam. Not only that, they have delved into topics that make people generally uncomfortable. A few examples:

1. Baiting people and purposely using language to incite arguments.
2. Transphobia, including shutting out/bullying a trans sprout who expressed concern in NN chat.
3. Xenophobia and racism, often by baiting with use of anti-semitic language.
4. Targeted harassment against individuals, mostly mentors that ban them from NN.
5. Evading bans and purposely being unpleasant.
6. Spreading conspiracy theories and falsities in the attempt to spread misinformation.

Often times this person is not overt and blatant in their harassment, they are very obviously aware of the line they need to tread to avoid outright being banned/suspended from the game. This behavior is common in these types of individuals and while we should be understanding to each persons possible mental issues and emotional states we should not tolerate deliberate harassments and allow even repeated questionable behavior to go unchecked.

Until something can be further resolved I encourage mentors and others to not engage this person and merely NN ban them if you personally feel they have overstepped what you deem as acceptable. By engaging in them you invite this to the discussion and, in turn, give them what they seek. This may humor you, but think of others in chat that may see this as stressful or uncomfortable. I have had sprouts leave NN chat over this person, some even DM me about it, this is not what NN should be used for and we should strive to make it a safe and helpful forum that expresses positivity to this game and it's community.

Continued in Next Post:

To the moderators that see this, I was asked to post feedback here on the flawed system that is the Novice Network chat. Those that report repeated offenders like this are asked to simply blacklist them in game, and while that offers a protection to that one individual it does not to the others that reside in that forum, nor does it help block players entirely, especially in this case where the list of alts extends beyond even 8. By blacklisting you are asking us to ignore someone we are meant to moderate and handle on a player by player basis. We aren't Game Moderators but as mentors we are supposed to take on the responsibility of taking care of the Novice Network chat. We desperately need a better way to handle this particular issue because it's been going on for MONTHS and we are still stuck at square one.

PS-I was encouraged by an in game GM to post this in the forums and raise awareness to it. Please do not say it's against ToS, because it's not.

Thank you all for your time in regards to educating yourself on this issue. I hope you have a wonderful day/evening/night.

What are the names of the players alts so that we can properly keep ourselves safe from this uncanny threat?

Irony at its finest right here

Bumping this because it is still relevant to this day. Go figure.

Yha, guy actually drove an entire FC of my friends off of the server, they abandoned those alts and started again elsewhere.

The GM's keep banning accounts, and the guy keeps making replacements.

Does he still have 2 or 3 mentor accounts that he uses to kick any mentor that kicks more then one or two of his alts?

First of all, I'm sorry that they felt the need to leave. It goes into a lot of the problem we face with this. It frustrates both sprouts and mentors, and pushes away new players or returning players from seeking help in the community chat specifically made for just that. I hope they are having fun with the game in their new home.

I personally haven't confirmed the mentor account. But I wouldn't put it past him. We've had sympathizers, or people that aren't in the loop kick mentors. It's unfortunate because the system is designed to punish them more than the harasser.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JuliusRath

First of all, I'm sorry that they felt the need to leave. It goes into a lot of the problem we face with this. It frustrates both sprouts and mentors, and pushes away new players or returning players from seeking help in the community chat specifically made for just that. I hope they are having fun with the game in their new home.

I personally haven't confirmed the mentor account. But I wouldn't put it past him. We've had sympathizers, or people that aren't in the loop kick mentors. It's unfortunate because the system is designed to punish them more than the harasser.

---

I kick this guy from the NN on sight, even if he wasnt a total toxic troll with his words, his usernames are bad enough to warrant kicks... Sadly it usually ends up with another mentor kicking me. tbh i think im almost done with this nonsense id rather just pay the money and go play on another server whos NN isnt a total cesspool. This guys bad but i can deal with him by kicking him on sight, But Lamia honestly has some of the lowest quality mentors i've ever seen sad really.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CritiZin

I kick this guy from the NN on sight, even if he wasnt a total toxic troll with his words, his usernames are bad enough to warrant kicks... Sadly it usually ends up with another mentor kicking me. tbh i think im almost done with this nonsense id rather just pay the money and go play on another server whos NN isnt a total cesspool. This guys bad but i can deal with him by kicking him on sight, But Lamia honestly has some of the lowest quality mentors i've ever seen sad really.

---

That mentor that kicks you, well, he claims it's his girlfriend, but it's pretty sure just another set of bots that just happened to jump through the mentor hoops, notice that most of the time it's an account that has never said anything the entire time?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

That mentor that kicks you, well, he claims it's his girlfriend, but it's pretty sure just another set of bots that just happened to jump through the mentor hoops, notice that most of the time it's an account that has never said anything the entire time?

---

10000% this guy doesn't have a girlfriend. i have written down all the mentors that have kicked me after spam kicking him one was from another world server that left instantly after kicking me, another one is just one of those low quality mentors i was talking about and then ya the latest one is the one im assuming he said was his GF. tbh i might just start kicking those people on sight too.

the "low quality" probably isn't the troll, the mentor alt they use tends to be hidden, either off on another server, or by not talking ever...

Keep track of the other 2 though... and try having a nice private talk with the other mentor, maybe show them to the forum and this topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

That mentor that kicks you, well, he claims it's his girlfriend, but it's pretty sure just another set of bots that just happened to jump through the mentor hoops, notice that most of the time it's an account that has never said anything the entire time?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CritiZin

10000% this guy doesn't have a girlfriend. i have written down all the mentors that have kicked me after spam kicking him one was from another world server that left instantly after kicking me, another one is just one of those low quality mentors i was talking about and then ya the latest one is the one im assuming he said was his GF. tbh i might just start kicking those people on sight too.

---

Lets put aside the fact that you are engaging in targeted harassment and openly admitting it here in the official forums, but on what basis do you make these claims, both of you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CritiZin

I kick this guy from the NN on sight, even if he wasnt a total toxic troll with his words, his usernames are bad enough to warrant kicks... Sadly it usually ends up with another mentor kicking me. tbh i think im almost done with this nonsense id rather just pay the money and go play on another server whos NN isnt a total cesspool. This guys bad but i can deal with him by kicking him on sight, But Lamia honestly has some of the lowest quality mentors i've ever seen sad really.

---

Oh hey, you're that coward that kicked me randomly and then left novice network before you could be confronted about it. So your post on "low quality mentors" is ironic and I agree you should leave Lamia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CritiZin

I kick this guy from the NN on sight, even if he wasnt a total toxic troll with his words, his usernames are bad enough to warrant kicks... Sadly it usually ends up with another mentor kicking me. tbh i think im almost done with this nonsense id rather just pay the money and go play on another server whos NN isnt a total cesspool. This guys bad but i can deal with him by kicking him on sight, But Lamia honestly has some of the lowest quality mentors i've ever seen sad really.

---

"Lamia honestly has some of the lowest quality mentors i've ever seen"
Ironic, coming from you. You have next to nothing whatsoever to offer to sprouts as a mentor. You have barely even played the game. You have no jobs leveled, and only a narrow range of experience with the game itself. You are completely unqualified to mentor anyone in this game. The only thing you've done with the crown is to kick people, and in your paranoia you have been kicking more than just your target's supposed alts, you've kicked randoms more than once. You need to chill out.

There are some really good folks around the Lamia Novice Network, but frankly you get in the way every time you appear. The instant you arrive, everyone's experience becomes worse, immediately. You are not supposed to be there to act solely as a mini-moderator, you are supposed to be there to help sprouts and participate in the community.

I've seen you post on Reddit in similar ways, I think you really just need to distance yourself from this game for a while, I don't think you will feel better by just transferring worlds, though I think it would help with Lamia's situation in the Novice Network. Your attitude is so bad it got you permanently banned from League of Legends. I pray that it does not come to that here, as well.

Heyo peeps, I have been paying attention to this thread since its creation and decided to get involved with the discussion due to the fact that the thread is old and alot as occured since then with the sprouts, mentors, and GMs alike. Back when this begun to become a large issue with the involved individuals that continued to repeat the same offence in Lamia's NN, a group of myself and other mentors (that wanted to help keep the said chat clean, helpful and more chill in regards to new players) created an open linkshell in order to remedy most of those issues. At first it was a bumpy situation due to who we should allow in it to help and just decided to let it be open for all communication even with said mentors that were new and did not understand how the system worked for reports, kicks, and properly showing new players the ropes without pressuring them. As the linkshell grew to almost max, at this point we had a regular system and reported each kick as is required with Tos to help better the server. Obviously this came with its own set of problems were mentors were 50/50 on how they wanted things due to personal bias or just not wanting to get involved out of fairness and refused to take part in helping per how the GMs and Tos insists for ingame etiquette. Eventually after many reports and issued kicks from the said individual this sums it up.

1. Individual was misunderstood but also dug themselves a hole due to reacting constantly and letting there personal bias create a stigma against them from past personal issues with players on Lamia. Also not knowing what should and shouldnt be talked about in NN even after the recent Tos Revisement.
2. It has created a situation amongst some of the mentors in NN and Lamia in general to make a scapegoat to flex there power or create a couple alts here and there to keep the fire burning in NN, even after the individual has been removed and kicked.

Eventually after discussions with GMs over many months -_- the situation was resolved and things were subtle for only 1 month in NN over a 4 year period of this continuing until the individual decided to come back on another account and start anew. At first it was just fine and the individual was staying calm in NN and helping new players with the occasional IRL topic that stayed Civil for the time being, After sometime more old players and returners that didnt understand the situation began stirring the pot by adding drama and calling the player out by who they were known for in NN from past issues etc.

This led to the recurring issue again with said individual taking it personal and continued discussing non-civil and uncomfortable topics while the mentors and other trolls in chat, adding to the fire until a kick was warranted. Every time a kick is issued a report is sent in with GMs and it is recommended to follow up with them as well with another report to discuss the issue. GMs over this past year have constantly went back and forth on what mentors should do in terms of using our best judgment in a situation ingame. The following example shown below is one of these.

1. Follow-up on if kick evasion is a warranted reason to kick or remove a player from novice network was given permission by GMs at one point to some mentors, if the said player admitted to being the same player that was just kicked "but only" if they were still persisting with the same said topic or discussion that originally issued a (kick/report) will the kick be warranted again.

Due to the constant influx of new, returning, and old mentors coming and going in NN. the situation seems to never improve either from confusion of the situation, not caring enough to reach out to a GM for clarification "but saying they did" or taking the words of some GMs the wrong way and making up there own conclusion, which ultimately leads to a mentor in NN kicking on sight or powertripping. Regardless of the situation Lamia is considered one of the best servers still on Primal due to its helpfulness with many of the amazing mentors that want to really get involved. Sadly some of the more "salted" mentors or players on our world i should say like to cause drama and watch the chat burn for there own entertainment than actually wanting to help moderate and create a better chat environment, while also calling out amazing and helpful mentors for "taking the game to serious" or "caring to much". On that note, i have brought this situation to Reddit in the past not long ago to only be met with personal bias and flaming when most of us want the system changed overall come EW for the better. Being involved with this situation on my part as a long time player that has mentored others over the past since 3.2 when mentors were introduced, has made it difficult to resolve because of being a content creator for FF14 while also running my own discord community alongside our FC family Ingame, has made me a target for alot of poor individuals Ingame that im forced to ignore and BL. The situation with mentors at the moment is in a very fragile position due to very little GM involvement in NN and has been discussed amongst not only myself with other streamers but by many in the community that want it changed to help better the toxicity that arises consistently. Being told to BL and let them handle a problem ingame has had provided little to NO changes especially over this past year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CritiZin

10000% this guy doesn't have a girlfriend. i have written down all the mentors that have kicked me after spam kicking him one was from another world server that left instantly after kicking me, another one is just one of those low quality mentors i was talking about and then ya the latest one is the one im assuming he said was his GF. tbh i might just start kicking those people on sight too.

---

This is an example of just one of the many mentors that players have taken issue with on Lamia. This person is openly admitting to kicking people on-sight just because they feel slighted and has offered no reason for their kicks besides, what amounts to, that they don't like the person.

I'll list a few of the issues that I'd had since I came back on a new character in April (retired my old one who was, believe it or not, the second ever Mentor on Lamia.)

1. Someone was having a discussion about something and mentioned something about a scientific theory and a scientific Law as being the same thing and as being an interchangeable term. I spoke up and politely (I have the screenshots) interjected that a theory is prescriptive and hasn't been proven but a Law is descriptive and is repeatable using the Scientific Method. A mentor (not the one I'm replying to) proceeded to call me stupid, uneducated, and encouraged no less than four other players to dogpile on me before culminating in them kicking me for "nuisance behavior." I reported them and came back into chat again 30 minutes later and asked them what I did wrong and I was told that I "must be autistic or something" if I was "still butthurt" about that and received another dogpile before another kick for "nuisance behavior." I had reported and came back another 30 minutes later and before I could even say anything (someone must've set a timer or something,) I was kicked again without a single word.

2. Sprout A and sprout B were having a discussion about a topic and sprout A said something about the Trans Community and sprout C admitted that they were Trans and would appreciate them not speaking for them as what they were saying didn't represent their views and experience. Sprout A went OFF on sprout C and was claiming that C was just trying to start drama so C posted a picture of their hormone meds. A outright said to C that they still didn't believe them and that they were "just claiming to be trans to start s___." At this point, myself and several other sprouts were speaking up in defense of C and asking for any mentor (many of which had just mysteriously gone silent even though they were talking just minutes before) to do something about sprout A. I was one of the people that was speaking up and asking for A to stop...a mentor kicked me for "drama and nuisance behavior." No one else got kicked...sprout A didn't get kicked. 30 minutes later, I came back and was immediately kicked without a word for "starts drama and past nuisance behavior." 30 minutes later...kicked again immediately upon entering NN and without a word from anyone. THE NEXT DAY my FC leader pulls me aside and said that people have messaged them about me starting drama in the NN and it looks bad for the FC. I explained to them the situation and even offered to show them the screenshots...nope...I was told that I either have to stop starting and participating in drama in the NN or I had to leave the FC. This event caused my S/O to basically quit the game in literal tears and I have to BEG them to play with me and they only do maybe once or twice a month and never for longer than an hour.

3. People were having an argument when I'd logged on. Someone on my friendlist saw me log in and said, "oh hey ____," in NN to welcome me online for the day. I responded, "Hello there," and was immediately kicked by a mentor for, "causing drama and past nuisance behavior." I was kicked 30 minutes later when I came back to the NN and asked, "Hey, why was I kicked?" Other people spoke up and also asked and said I didn't do anything but instead of an apology or even a response...I was kicked again for "attempting to start drama and past nuisance behavior." 30 minutes later...guess what happened, again.

There have been MANY other instances like this but I'll stop and move on to the other issue.

To the individual in question with the original post...while I do think that they occasionally cross the line and do deserve a kick every now and again, I have to emphatically state that the vast majority of the kicks that this person receives are the results of people riling them up specifically because they know that they can get a rise out of them. Most of the time, in NN, people are just talking about them and how much they don't like them. After they get kicked, whether they do deserve it or not, for the next two hours (no joke) the entirety of the NN just talks about how much they hate (yes hate) this person and what they can do to get rid of them for good.

Again, I fully expect to have to kick this person in the future when they cross the line talking about their views or whatever when asked to stop...but the problem, right now, is almost entirely projection from the bad-actors that wield their mentor crown like they've been ordained as mini-gm's.

My own opinion, having been a GM for NCsoft years ago and knowing what GMs have to put up with, the reason this person hasn't been just outright banned is because the GMs have realized that this problem isn't just on this one person's shoulders and that there is immense amounts of guilt on the other side of the narrative, as well, and they can't just go banning everyone because then there would eventually be no players left.

Whatever this person has done in the past, my own viewpoint, is that the blame for the current situation that we find ourselves in is about 10% on them and 90% on these other toxic mentors that literally have an organized harassment campaign (complete with lists of his characters that they randomly PM to random sprouts and tell them to immediately place on their blacklist and, yes, I have evidence of them doing this as they messaged me with it) against this player...who, honestly, has been playing MAYBE a few hours a week, if that, lately.

Is this player a problem? Sure, at times and maybe they need one or two of their names changed every now and then because edgelord. They do, however, realize when they deserve a kick for having crossed the line and the main and current problem comes from the indignancy they show from being harassed and dogpiled even just for trying to help others and then receiving so many kicks that are unwarranted.

Again...I'm not condoning any of this player's actions...but, if anyone is ruining my daily game time, it's definitely not them and it hasn't been for many months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verthande

Whatever this person has done in the past, my own viewpoint, is that the blame for the current situation that we find ourselves in is about 10% on them and 90% on these other toxic mentors that literally have an organized harassment campaign (complete with lists of his characters that they randomly PM to random sprouts and tell them to immediately place on their blacklist and, yes, I have evidence of them doing this as they messaged me with it) against this player...who, honestly, has been playing MAYBE a few hours a week, if that, lately.

Is this player a problem? Sure, at times and maybe they need one or two of their names changed every now and then because edgelord. They do, however, realize when they deserve a kick for having crossed the line and the main and current problem comes from the indignancy they show from being harassed and dogpiled even just for trying to help others and then receiving so many kicks that are unwarranted.

Again...I'm not condoning any of this player's actions...but, if anyone is ruining my daily game time, it's definitely not them and it hasn't been for many months.

---

Exactly and sadly most of the Mentors that choose to campaign against said individual end up either leaving the Mentor LS all because they take it on a personal level instead of looking at NN as a status quo and just kick/report when there's an actual reason to do so. It has seriously showed just how 50/50 the mentor players base when it comes to investigating a problem instead of using there own personal bias all because "its there sub" -_-. They really need to take the mentor system in account for things of how a person uses it to help/moderate Ingame like it was originally intended for. I only hope they actually read the forums like they say

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verthande

2. Sprout A and sprout B were having a discussion about a topic and sprout A said something about the Trans Community and sprout C admitted that they were Trans and would appreciate them not speaking for them as what they were saying didn't represent their views and experience. Sprout A went OFF on sprout C and was claiming that C was just trying to start drama so C posted a picture of their hormone meds. A outright said to C that they still didn't believe them and that they were "just claiming to be trans to start s___." At this point, myself and several other sprouts were speaking up in defense of C and asking for any mentor (many of which had just mysteriously gone silent even though they were talking just minutes before) to do something about sprout A. I was one of the people that was speaking up and asking for A to stop...a mentor kicked me for "drama and nuisance behavior." No one else got kicked...sprout A didn't get kicked. 30 minutes later, I came back and was immediately kicked without a word for "starts drama and past nuisance behavior." 30 minutes later...kicked again immediately upon entering NN and without a word from anyone. THE NEXT DAY my FC leader pulls me aside and said that people have messaged them about me starting drama in the NN and it looks bad for the FC. I explained to them the situation and even offered to show them the screenshots...nope...I was told that I either have to stop starting and participating in drama in the NN or I had to leave the FC. This event caused my S/O to basically quit the game in literal tears and I have to BEG them to play with me and they only do maybe once or twice a month and never for longer than an hour.

---

In response to the alleged transphobia claim against me by the original poster, this was not me, and never have I done this, what it is, and will always be is a straw man that has been set up to garner additional hate. And even though a player did clearly drive someone off the game by exhibiting transphobia, this person described as 'Sprout A' was protected rather than penalized because of favoritism and bias against 'Sprout C'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UncannyThreat

In response to the alleged transphobia claim against me by the original poster, this was not me, and never have I done this, what it is, and will always be is a straw man that has been set up to garner additional hate. And even though a player did clearly drive someone off the game by exhibiting transphobia, this person described as 'Sprout A' was protected rather than penalized because of favoritism and bias against 'Sprout C'.

---

I will also state clearly that my second example, as seen in the above quote, was not the original player in question from the OP's post. The person in my example was basically given carte blanche to do and say whatever they'd wanted about whomever they'd wanted for weeks on end and if anyone even question it or ask the mentors to do anything about it then we were usually met with a threat of getting kicked for starting drama. The person in my example, again not the person in question by the OP, was definitely not the only one in what I'd described at the time as both a 'clique' and a 'virtual lynch mob.' Anyone who they even perceived as someone who wouldn't immediately fall in line was a target which is how I ended up being a target. I defended one of the people they didn't like from transphobic attacks...I was then a target.

No conjecture; I don't know their motives. I'm just stating what happened.

I'm not saying the OP is telling the truth or lying and I won't because I wasn't here between the beginning of Stormblood until April of this year. I can say, however, that I've not personally witnessed the original person in question be transphobic in my anecdotal experience. I have witnessed them do several things that deserve a kick from the NN to help diffuse tensions from time to time...but never anything outright ban-worthy in my, again anecdotal, experience.

Out of absolute sheer curiosity does his name rhyme with “Dank Dan?” All of those traits sounds familiar as a Lamia native

Never heard of her, huh? Lets run a quick comparison
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/39510202/ Your current character on the lodestone who is notably similar to:
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...acter/6172300/ Your old banned main, same FC.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/32567267/ The other character you're pretty well known for using. Same FC.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/33466161/ Another one I remember
Very strange coincidences

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZombifiedRob

Never heard of her, huh? Lets run a quick comparison
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/39510202/ Your current character on the lodestone who is notably similar to:
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...acter/6172300/ Your old banned main, same FC.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/32567267/ The other character you're pretty well known for using. Same FC.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...cter/33466161/ Another one I remember
Very strange coincidences

---

Yes, thats correct.

I walk away for a month and this crap explodes. WTF guys.

Our NN is still a cesspool. Last night was a shitty example of mentor after mentor kicking each other for 'abusing power' when the first kick to HT was justified. I'm extremely disappointed in what we've become and the attention we give this shitty person and the chaos we allow because of their words and actions. By doing this you are giving him EXACTLY what he wants. I know a lot of you don't like each other but put your biases aside and just do what you're supposed to do in these situations.

Warn once. Do not elaborate. This person knows what we mean when we tell them to stop their behaivor. No matter how much they beg and ask you to engage with them. Don't.
If they persist, kick and for 30 minutes, kick every alt that comes back and tries to re-engage in the behaivior.

This is what we're allowed to do. This is what I've confirmed several times over the past year with several GMs.
We are not allowed to kick on sight without them speaking in NN first and causing issues on the first character they do so with.

This is not rocket science. This is being a decent mentor. It's not hard.

For those of you that say that HT isn't at fault or that the bias is stacked against him
It's not.

I literally talked to him last month on Discord. He is just like this. He's not dumb. He's an extremist and he knows what he's doing. Ya'll are playing into his game.

The second I stopped believing him in anything was when he bullied a trans sprout that was excited and admitted they came out to their parents in NN chat. HT literally said to them that no one cares and that they were not allowed to talk about being trans in NN chat in addition to some other things I can't repeat here. This is when he was more bold and more blunt in his execution. If you think that's forgiveable, fine, good for you. But that sprout didn't deserve that and for that reason I will continue to be critical in every, little thing he does, as insignificant as you all believe it to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JuliusRath

The second I stopped believing him in anything was when he bullied a trans sprout that was excited and admitted they came out to their parents in NN chat. HT literally said to them that no one cares and that they were not allowed to talk about being trans in NN chat in addition to some other things I can't repeat here. This is when he was more bold and more blunt in his execution. If you think that's forgiveable, fine, good for you. But that sprout didn't deserve that and for that reason I will continue to be critical in every, little thing he does, as insignificant as you all believe it to be.

---

This is not factual, I challenge you to provide screenshots of the interaction. The basis of my commentary on the situation is that POLITICS are not allowed in the Novice Network. Critical Gender Theory being strictly a political issue. When told that it was not, I cited several court cases which proved that it was in fact a political issue. As much as you would like to create manufactured outrage over a scenario that you have clearly over embellished in your own fan fiction of the incident, it doesn't mean that it is the truth. If I was able to say more than you are able to say here, why wasn't I banned for it during the occasion? You will be critical in every little thing that I do because you have personal bias against me and that personal bias is driving this entire thread.

So, we have the problem maker from the Lamia NN right here in the forum, trying to make trouble here?

At least form folk are used to trolling and know how to handle it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UncannyThreat

This is not factual, I challenge you to provide screenshots of the interaction. The basis of my commentary on the situation is that POLITICS are not allowed in the Novice Network. Critical Gender Theory being strictly a political issue. When told that it was not, I cited several court cases which proved that it was in fact a political issue. As much as you would like to create manufactured outrage over a scenario that you have clearly over embellished in your own fan fiction of the incident, it doesn't mean that it is the truth. If I was able to say more than you are able to say here, why wasn't I banned for it during the occasion? You will be critical in every little thing that I do because you have personal bias against me and that personal bias is driving this entire thread.

---

Now where have I headed this statement before, among a outrage among the lgbt NN players that night. Was a while ago but log in to NN in lamia any night and you can clearly see a instigator among the common banter, a break in the peace. Always there always present with a different name to evade banning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JuliusRath

Warn once. Do not elaborate.

---

The problem is that there ARE a bunch of mentors out there that are essentially grooming sprouts against this player, toxic or not, and are not equal or fair with their ministrations.

There's at least two mentors, right now, that have alts that they boosted to get mentor specifically to log in and kick them on sight without a word when they're just being calm, having normal conversations, and sometimes even helping sprites.

Just the other night, someone was claiming something that was objectively false in NN and I was correcting them and a bunch of mentors jumped all over ME for "baiting" just because they know I don't immediately jump all over this other player. One of them even warns me to stop or get kicked. I drop it, having already corrected the record, but was discussing, in a linkshell, the issue in regards to treating all other players equally and also that correcting something that was factually incorrect wasn't baiting...and I mis-telled into NN about something and IMMEDIATELY said, 'MT,' after it and they dogpiled all over me and said that it was sad that I was still hung up on that issue.

They continued to bring it up for the next 15 minutes but, when I tried to respond that I clearly said it was a MT, I was not only dogpiled and insulted more by those mentors (and their pet sprouts) but also warned to stop again.

And on the topic of those pet sprouts...there's a bunch of them, now, that get away with WAY worse than I've seen the original player in question do and when *I* warn them...I get insulted blatantly by them and the mentors that are protecting them and, when I outright kicked one of them, once, for blatantly crossing the line (AND I kicked the player in question because they were going back and forth with each other) I was kicked for 'abuse of power.'

These mentors, now, are literally kicking and labeling their reasons as, "bad player," or, "you know by now," and who is that helping? I knew someone, years ago, that got a 2 week suspension because they kicked someone with a reason of, "you know what you did," but, now, we have a bunch of people who are basically at that same point.

They want to kick this person, fine...I'll likely kick them again in future when they actually cross the line...but do it fairly and be a good mentor. They can't put a blanket statement down like, "no politics," and then spend 45 minutes talking about how communism is amazing and calling each other 'comrade' then kick HT when he chimes in and asks them to stop with the political talk.

We have to hold EVERYONE to the same standard and THAT is clearly not happening, right now.

Honestly, I just want an actual world chat with bot moderation and have them take away mentor kicking ability entirely...and then just leave the NN to the actual mentors who want to actually help and not just have a crown and a chat room. That would basically fix everything.

Now, this is a weird thread!

Who made you guys Judge, Jury and Executioner?

Being a mentor means nothing, honestly.

Don't try and make it into something uhm... Detrimental!

Anyway, Lamia sounds fun!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IckeDerTyp

Who made you guys Judge, Jury and Executioner?

...

Anyway, Lamia sounds fun!

---

Last night, a 'mentor' started talking about a topic (religion) that they have previously kicked the player the OP in this post is talking about. The player responded to a question from this 'mentor' with an answer that was absolutely not inflammatory in any way at all; literally just a straight up plain, boring response.

The 'mentor' kicked the player for 'Religious banter' and THEN warned the player after they were already kicked.

Fun, indeed.

I literally said in the start of this post that once they cross the line to warn once and not engage in the conversational baits that this player ALWAYS does, most mentors are lenient to other sprouts, this is only for the repeat offender, and honestly if you are still tolerant to them, you simply haven't been around long enough dealing with them. The 'line' is going to be different for every mentor, because every mentor has a level of tolerance. My level of tolerance is what I posted before and other things along the line of like 'BLM is a terrorist organization', a literal quote from this individual. You or another mentor may not find that as a kickable offense but you should 100% respect my reasoning for my kick so long as it's outlined in the kick note. Whenever I kick this individual I cite TOS 2.3 and 2.8 because those are the guidelines in which I can kick and continue to kick the alts for the 30 minute duration.

I'm not holding everyone to the same standard because this person took the standard and spit on it and everyone else repeatedly.

The 'abuse of power' thing was the reason I posted my reply to this thread as I did. It was to include you and EVERYONE ELSE THAT DID IT. A literal chain reaction that shouldn't of happened, but everyone decided to act like children.

This game moderation is extremely bad. Even after the updates to the TOS. Sadly to say there are no ways around it. Account band? make a new one. IP banned? use a vpn or proxy server.

What they need to do is to temporary disable the nnn and redo it with better parameters.

The only time they will take action is if they are leaks and/or talking about a certain person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JuliusRath

...The 'line' is going to be different for every mentor, because every mentor has a level of tolerance. My level of tolerance is what I posted before and other things along the line of like 'BLM is a terrorist organization', a literal quote from this individual. You or another mentor may not find that as a kickable offense but you should 100% respect my reasoning for my kick so long as it's outlined in the kick note. Whenever I kick this individual I cite TOS 2.3 and 2.8 because those are the guidelines in which I can kick and continue to kick the alts for the 30 minute duration.

I'm not holding everyone to the same standard because this person took the standard and spit on it and everyone else repeatedly.

The 'abuse of power' thing was the reason I posted my reply to this thread as I did. It was to include you and EVERYONE ELSE THAT DID IT. A literal chain reaction that shouldn't of happened, but everyone decided to act like children.

---

I'm descended from literal African slaves from the Caribbean and I don't find that statement to be worthy of a kick so long as the context of it relates directly to a specific conversation that is being had. Context is key. Were there others discussing the same topic and not getting warned to stop? Then why, when this individual joins in, do they get special treatment?

The problem with not holding everyone to the same standards is that this can easily be turned against you. The best way to come up with standards is to think, "now that I've made these standards, would I be completely happy to give them to someone who considers me an enemy to enforce them upon myself?" Everyone needs to be equal and held to the same equal standard...which is why you constantly have so many people complain about the unjust kicks. Do you even remember a few months ago when some random sprouts formed that crap "sprout liberation army" and did nothing but repeat all of the abuse from the mentors that they'd seen?

I've spoken with a GM both before and after the changes and BOTH times they'd mentioned that jumping on an alt to get back in to NN is NOT a kickable offense...I'm not condoning that behavior...but the GM's have stated, unequivocally, that the rule is to circumvent the blacklist feature and that public spaces like NN aren't subject to the same rules for switching toons. Again...NOT condoning this behavior...but the GM's have said that, in this context, it's not against any rules and kicking for 'kick evasion' would be considered an abuse of power. If a GM or Mod wants to weigh in on that, here, and make that ruling once and for all then I'd be more than happy to abide by whatever they say.

Lamia has an issue with mentors abusing their power...I'm sorry that you can't see this but this issue is MUCH larger than just one, single player that you don't like.

That "one player" already has a lifetime ban and been told by squenix not to come back.
So they are not allowed in the game, or the novice network.
Dosen't matter what name they are using, they are not allowed.

So, why is kicking a person from a place they shouldn't be abusive?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

That "one player" already has a lifetime ban and been told by squenix not to come back.
So they are not allowed in the game, or the novice network.
Dosen't matter what name they are using, they are not allowed.

So, why is kicking a person from a place they shouldn't be abusive?

---

Are you a GM? No? Then how do you know what they've told them?

There's an interesting thing about Japanese games being bound by a law where they can't actually issue a lifetime ban unless actual laws have been broken, too.

Seems to me like you're either projecting, wishfully thinking, or outright spouting nonsense in hopes to justify treating another player badly regardless of what that player may or may not have done in the past.

You don't like them? Fine...blacklist is a thing. Get over it and move on and stop causing drama for the rest of the majority that aren't bothered by every little thing.

"Oh you're just defending them because..." No, I've kicked them twice in the past when they've gone over the line and they know I'll kick them again if the situation actually requires it. The problem is when I kick them...I also warn the players that are engaging in the same over-the-line nonsense and then I get dogpiled and kicked for ACTUAL equal ministration.

I'm saying this outright: You are part of the problem because you aren't being fair to every player.

I aint even there, so ... I'm being perfectly fair, aint done nothing to them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I aint even there, so ... I'm being perfectly fair, aint done nothing to them.

---

Precisely...you're not even there and you're pretending to know what's going on and instantly condemning a player that you know nothing at all about.

You're part of the problem.

I'm beliving the reports from the GM's that have lead to the character being permemently baned multiple times, and they came back when not invited.

There's a case in the US courts right now from roblocks that will set intering precident on the legality of it.