New player, loving a lot so far but feel I'm being driven away

Hi all,

I wanted to provide some feedback on my experiences so far and ask some questions to see if I should keep playing. While I've been loving quite a bit of my experience (story quests, friendly community, crafting depth, idea of a job system), there's a lot of simplification to systems and 'rushing' that is driving me away. From my perspective, it feels like attempts to make the game easier or faster are actually making things more confusing and less fun for me as a new player. Basically, I want an immersive experience not a blind rush with simple combat and only a handful of abilities, while I feel a lot of the game is delivering on that the other half feels to be in conflict with it.

As an example, and what compelled me to post, was my disappointment upon reaching level 30 and unlocking Scholar; I've been excited about Scholar since I picked up the game because I heard it was a complex healing class with a lot of support options after reading some guides, though after I unlocked it I lost more abilities and complexity than I gained. Similarly, the pets seem redundant which was both very confusing and disappointing as a new player; I was looking forward to the support pet as I want to play a support class but I've learned since that the two pets are the same now I think? While I'm sure the healing functionality is useful in groups, it not useful or fun for me while leveling with my girlfriend as the game is too easy to require heals (another issue which has made things less engaging). Gameplay-wise it doesn't feel like the class that is depicted in the story or that I'd heard about. Basically, it sounds like much of what I read that had made me interested in the class (and game as a whole) has since changed in the recent expansion.

Similarly, the dungeon experience is not very new player friendly. My girlfriend and I planned a whole day around running a dungeon and were super excited to jump in but instead of an interesting experience with social elements and teamwork, we were thrown into an AoE rush and honestly felt overwhelmed, confused, and bored all at once. We had no time to learn anything, meet players, or actually play the dungeon. We felt like dead weight and we weren't having a good time because it was mindless.

Maybe I'm just too focused on these things, but I let myself get really drawn in to the game before it felt like I was hit with a bunch of aspects of gameplay that punished me as a new player. As such, I wanted to just let the developers know that some of these design decisions leading to churn among newer players (I work in game development so this is relevant to my interests and to me professionally).

TL;DR - I love a lot about this game (community, job concept, crafting, MSQ) but some things I have encountered have given me pause (rushed dungeon experience, simplified class designs/Scholar changes, lack of purpose for sidequests). Should I stick it out or is this not the game I'm looking for?

The dungeon rush will only be more prevalent the higher you go. That's just a fact of FF XIV life. I can't really comment on SCH much, to be honest, but I know a lot of former and current SCHs are not happy with what the devs did to it with Shadowbringers. Perhaps experimenting with other jobs will help you find your way. Some can't be unlocked until 50, others at 60. But what you have to realize is that this an MMO. Playing with others might not result in ways you'd like them to. If you are looking for a less rushed and social experience then you may want to look into finding a Free Company to join that suits your needs. You aren't going to find that through the Duty Finder 99.999% of the time. I think it could be the game you are looking for, but you need to have reasonable expectations of the community. And it also sounds like SCH is not for you. Again, I would give some other jobs a go from every role to see if anything clicks. You will never know until you try. Play what you enjoy. Hopefully you can find something.

Scholar has changed a lot, unfortunately. I still enjoy it but it's a lot simpler than it used to be. I'd recommend just trying another job if you're not happy playing scholar.

What was the dungeon? Planning a whole day around one dungeon seems... odd. They tend to take 20 minutes on average. In duty finder people are going to rush through dungeons, unfortunately, because they're easy and the other players have probably done it a hundres times before. If you'd like a slow run, either request this at the beginning of the dungeon, or make a party finder post.

Free companies or linkshells are a better bet if you want to socialise with other players.

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Originally Posted by Arendir

Similarly, the dungeon experience is not very new player friendly. My girlfriend and I planned a whole day around running a dungeon and were super excited to jump in but instead of an interesting experience with social elements and teamwork, we were thrown into an AoE rush and honestly felt overwhelmed, confused, and bored all at once. We had no time to learn anything, meet players, or actually play the dungeon. We felt like dead weight and we weren't having a good time because it was mindless.

Maybe I'm just too focused on these things, but I let myself get really drawn in to the game before it felt like I was hit with a bunch of aspects of gameplay that punished me as a new player. As such, I wanted to just let the developers know that some of these design decisions leading to churn among newer players (I work in game development so this is relevant to my interests and to me professionally).

TL;DR - I love a lot about this game (community, job concept, crafting, MSQ) but some things I have encountered have given me pause (rushed dungeon experience, simplified class designs/Scholar changes, lack of purpose for sidequests). Should I stick it out or is this not the game I'm looking for?

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If your looking for classic WoW levels of raid difficulty that you have to spend an entire day planning for it, this game may not be for you. FFXIV is far more casual and is designed to be completable by most players. If you have real trouble with a dungeon, if can be solved watching a 10 minute guide from MTQcapture. https://www.youtube.com/user/MTQcapture

Simplified class designs give you pause but your only at level 37, you'll still be missing over three quarters your arsenal at this point since you still have to reach the first milestone of level 50 and the 3 expansions beyond it. I can't really think of an MMORPG that gives you a massively complex class to pay right at the start of a game, so I really don't know what you're looking for if this gives you pause. Perhaps a First Person Shooter would be more to your liking?

Other people have covered most of your post, but I'll speak on scholar. I loved this job, and all healers were hurt during the ShB redesign. If you still want to heal, I suggest trying Astrologian. It still has need for a little extra brain power, but as other have said, you're only level 37. Dungeons sadly don't retain their teeth when the expansion moves on, and you're going to be in for a bit of a wait until you start to feel like you have to actually use your full toolkit.

It's also not going to be something you want to hear, but this game is VERY "everyone should be able to complete msq content rolling their face across their keyboard." That changes once you start doing extreme trials and savage, but that is a loong ways off.

I do say, as a healer main, don't knock the dungeon rushing until you get your full toolkit. It's the only way to encounter situations where you're using your full kit, and being efficient with every ogcd and gcd feels rewarding.

I do really wish you had a "job trial" feature that let you play with jobs at max, though. Ask any BLM main. lvl 60 and lvl 80 are totally different jobs.

Hey Arendir
I was also a bit overwhelmed with the dungeon experience at first too!

If you visit my Youtube channel I go through in detail how to complete each dungeon and the mechanics needed for new players to able to play stress free

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBy...zgbMZNrYBMINzw

I hope this helps you!

None of the jobs have any complexity at level 30. You have to get through more of the leveling process to start seeing it. FFXIV is tailored more around complex boss fights than complex dungeons, by popular demand.

If you want a sneak peek at your current job at a higher level, I recommend unlocking Palace of the Dead with your GF. You can duo it with her or find some friends and form a party, or even DF, though you must queue for it in Quarrymill. That may be the kind of dungeon EXP that you want, and it will let you preview your job up to level 60, assuming you have the job unlocked. Decent way to level until the mid 50s, as well.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The dungeon rush will only be more prevalent the higher you go. That's just a fact of FF XIV life. I can't really comment on SCH much, to be honest, but I know a lot of former and current SCHs are not happy with what the devs did to it with Shadowbringers. Perhaps experimenting with other jobs will help you find your way. Some can't be unlocked until 50, others at 60. But what you have to realize is that this an MMO. Playing with others might not result in ways you'd like them to. If you are looking for a less rushed and social experience then you may want to look into finding a Free Company to join that suits your needs. You aren't going to find that through the Duty Finder 99.999% of the time. I think it could be the game you are looking for, but you need to have reasonable expectations of the community. And it also sounds like SCH is not for you. Again, I would give some other jobs a go from every role to see if anything clicks. You will never know until you try. Play what you enjoy. Hopefully you can find something.

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Dungeon rushing is a fact of MMO life period.

Scholar is a far cry from what it used to be in its Heavensward and Stormblood days, as for the dungeon, that's not too surprising since most people getting a low level dungeon tend to want to speedrun it instead of taking their time, as a tank I do it too simply because it's the norm and people tend to get annoyed at slow paces and single pack pulls.

If you'd like a more social experience I'd suggest making a party finder group and seeing if you can get people who are either also new, or interested in not rushing through and want to explore and socialize instead.

The faster part is definitely not the fault of the game design.

OP, yowch. You have run into a class that has some inherent experimental strangeness to it and you're getting a skewed impression as a result.

Play SCH all the way to 80, it becomes its own thing, and it is fun and challenging to heal and DPS with it effectively in the endgame.

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Originally Posted by Arendir

My girlfriend and I planned a whole day around running a dungeon and were super excited to jump in but

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Out of curiosity what do you mean by this?
How did you plan a whole day around running a dungeon?
Also, was it Sastasha?

I haven't played WoW, and so cannot speak to the complexity of dungeon runs in that game, but in this one, the only stuff that could be considered in need of a day of prep are the advanced endgame activities: Extreme Trials, Savage Raids, and so on. Dungeons are made to be deliberately easy, as players are expected to run them again and again to obtain the currency needed to buy gear and such, or to level up swiftly. Because these dungeons are run over and over again, long-time players have them very streamlined; they move swiftly through the dungeon, and often complete them in under fifteen minutes.

You are correct, in that dungeon runs are not very social at all. Socialization in this game comes primarily by joining a Free Company (or, depending on server, you can get some great social activity on Novice Network, as well; don't know if Coeurl is one of the good NNs or one of the bad ones, though). If you want to take your time and enjoy a dungeon, it's best to run it with a pre-formed team of friends, rather than random players encountered through Duty Finder.

I'm sorry to hear that your expecations were shattered, but it's not necessarily the case that the experience you're looking for can't be found - it just may not be in the place you thought it would be!

The whole dungeon rush thing is an inevitability of you coming late. Happens in literally every MMO, starts off with CCs and new people working things out and talking to each other and being relaxed about wipes and becomes something you just need to get through for quest, xp, reputation etc.. those players in your dungeon may have been running Satasha for years at this point.

The only real solution to this is to go with an organised FC group and play at your own pace.

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Originally Posted by Arendir

As an example, and what compelled me to post, was my disappointment upon reaching level 30 and unlocking Scholar; I've been excited about Scholar since I picked up the game because I heard it was a complex healing class with a lot of support options after reading some guides, though after I unlocked it I lost more abilities and complexity than I gained. Similarly, the pets seem redundant which was both very confusing and disappointing as a new player; I was looking forward to the support pet as I want to play a support class but I've learned since that the two pets are the same now I think? While I'm sure the healing functionality is useful in groups, it not useful or fun for me while leveling with my girlfriend as the game is too easy to require heals (another issue which has made things less engaging). Gameplay-wise it doesn't feel like the class that is depicted in the story or that I'd heard about. Basically, it sounds like much of what I read that had made me interested in the class (and game as a whole) has since changed in the recent expansion.

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You're level 37 and don't have access to many of the classes interesting abilities or oCDs until 50-80. It's unfair to judge a jobs complexity when you've got a third of the recipe.

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Originally Posted by Arendir

Similarly, the dungeon experience is not very new player friendly. My girlfriend and I planned a whole day around running a dungeon and were super excited to jump in but instead of an interesting experience with social elements and teamwork, we were thrown into an AoE rush and honestly felt overwhelmed, confused, and bored all at once. We had no time to learn anything, meet players, or actually play the dungeon. We felt like dead weight and we weren't having a good time because it was mindless.

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That is the Party Finder in a nut shell. Many of us have ran these dungeons hundreds of times, and are trying to get our dailies out of the way. Did you try chatting with those in the party and letting them know it was your first time. Most players are friendly and will understand. If you're looking for something more ... paced and engaging for dungeons runs, find a FC and run them with FC members and let them know you're new. Otherwise the PF will continue to be a speed contest.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Dungeon rushing is a fact of MMO life period.

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Yep, but I was just talking about this game since that is what this thread is about.

Ooof. Well for one, you're only Lv.37 on Scholar. Those things you heard about Scholar are mainly around max level. You don't have much leveling up until you hit 60+. Overall the game has been out a while and for classes/jobs in general if they weren't simplified there would be way to many actions/skills. Dungeon runs are all done in big pulls unless you specifically state that you are new and want single pulls and to take things slow. It is common practice to pull everything in the dungeons in FFXIV these days.

Normal mode is really easy and the begining can become boring quickly if you learn how to play properly fast. It gets a little bit better when you level up (more skills), but every story dungeon or raid is easy. I think it's a good thing to start easy for new players but the game makes a lot of things easier with time.
Old stuff becomes more braindead with each new expantion because a lot of new players don't want to learn and a lot of old players don't have patience for new players (don't want to loose time). You can even go in a old lvl70 raid or less with your lvl 80 job, crush everything in your way and get the loot, there's almost no reason to try to learn old stuff now (unless you can't skip something). I blame the "i want everything i want as fast as i it can get" mentality.
New stuff in end game will give you more difficulty but if you want planning/scocial things then new extreme/savage raids is the way to go (look for a group of players who want to do stuff together or create one). Sadly this content too will just become easier, until it becomes braindead. The only content untouched for now is ultimate (maybe it's a little bit easier but every single one of them are one of the must difficult raids you will find) there's not many of them but i heard it takes a lot of time to clear.

So there's two solutions, either you just enjoy the story even if the rest isn't great (just chill while you do it) and you'll have more complex stuff to enjoy at the end OR stop now if story is too boring right now don't torture yourself.
If you want to play for story, i advise to continue until you get lvl 60 and if you find the heavensward story boring it's a good time to stop.

About dungeons I'm sorry to say but once you start Heavensward (if you choose to continue) dungeons will actually become simpler due the shortsighted design decision of designing every single duty finder dungeon for daily roulettes.
They will become increasingly more pretty and cinematic, but increasingly more streamlined.
So basically you're expected to just go all the way to the end of all of the MSQ before you can do challenging content, unless you somehow manage to get a group committed to do ARR, HW or SB extreme trials or savage raids synced. Although I wouldn't advise doing these last ones for their reward, but only for the challenge, else it isn't worth it at all.

Your complaint about extreme lack of actions at early levels is somewhat common and probably an oversight from the developers when ensuring the amount we have by max level doesn't increase every time. There were all kinds of suggestions given to continue keeping that number consistent without making early levels more and more dull, but I guess until the next expansion comes we will never know if they're planning to do anything about it.

I know this post is pretty negative but I'd rather be upfront about these issues being very real instead of just trying to convince you it will get better. Although on the actions and rotations front it does get better later.

In general Square appears to have adopted a design philosophy that minimizes button bloat. Unfortunately their implementation leaves a lot to be desired so they've been robbing lower levels of skills so they can pad the top end. Worse, healers' skillsets got gutted across the board in what most guess was an attempt to make the role more approachable.

I've only been playing for 2 years now and the lower level dungeons are pretty much old hat at this point.

Unfortunately dungeons in FFXIV are very tight and quick. A few of the original dungeons have a couple of bonus side rooms with extra treasure chests in them yet after a certain point in development that model was ditched in favour of turning them into completely linear experiences. It's not like certain MMO's such as WoW or ESO where you can explore a little and find a 'secret' boss, rare enemy or additional loot.

It's something that extends to raids, too. It's a shame and I dislike it but it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Arendir

Hi all,

I wanted to provide some feedback on my experiences so far and ask some questions to see if I should keep playing. (snip)

TL;DR - I love a lot about this game (community, job concept, crafting, MSQ) but some things I have encountered have given me pause (rushed dungeon experience, simplified class designs/Scholar changes, lack of purpose for sidequests). Should I stick it out or is this not the game I'm looking for?

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Hi there and welcome!

So reading your post, what you are talking about has pretty much become the norm in FF14 over the years. As SquareEnix has changed things for the better (or worse), one needs to adapt. I'm going to give my perspective here.

1. Reaching 30 and unlocking Scholar. Back in the day, healer classes had quite a bit more to them, but SE gutted the classes a few patches ago. All those nice attack spells went kaput. Having your pet die on you went kaput as it is now unkillable. IMO Scholar is a pretty braindead class to play (not a jab at you, it's just that easy). Also, there is no real 'support' class. Anything in the way of crowd control or the like is moot now.

2. Dungeons. Yup, be ready to have very little talking and all running and AoEing. That is how SE made the dungeons, and how players have optimally played them. My advice is to speak up and say at the beginning of a run that you and your girlfriend are new to the game and would like a slower experience as you figure things out. Do be aware that lower level dungeons are a joke, so they can be beaten pretty fast. As you get higher (post level 50 content), things get a bit more tricky with mechanics.

FF14 has a lot going for it, but I feel combat is meh. The story is awesome though.

Also, realize you can change classes and try out any other one whenever you want (though some do have level requirements beforehand). So don't be afraid to try them out and see what fits you better.

My first MMO was The Secret World and we were doing Master Planner/Nightmare dungeons, so I understand dungeons being a more involved experience that require a lot of coordination, communication and planning, but FF14 is just a different dungeon experience. If you're running them through the Duty Finder, most teammates you'll encounter are just trying to get on with their dailies, or have already been grinding the same thing over and over for XP or that one glamour item that just won't drop... :mad: So unless it's on-level, new content (right now, this is gonna be the level 80 stuff) or the player is new and getting help with mechanics, it's just an "autopilot" experience for most people.

Unfortunately this attitude can sometimes seep into things like Alliance Raids that aren't quite a faceroll just yet so we end up wiping out a lot, but that's another story... (RIP)

In any case, there's not much socializing in FF14 random group content. It's not that people mean to be rude or unsociable, it's just... like riding the subway to work or something. If you're looking for a more fun and social experience, I suggest forming a static 4-player group with friends, or maybe joining a Free Company that appeals to you.

As for SCH, it was actually the first class I leveled to endgame (Stormblood-era) and this was back in 2017. The job has changed a lot since then and we've lost a few abilities, but I can't really comment on how much better/worse it is now because I don't really play healers anymore. I believe FF14 is trying to standardize its healing classes to some degree, but results so far have been mixed.

For the record, I play a Bard now and Shadowbringers apparently replaced all of our proper weapons with Nerf bows and arrows, but I CAN say that over the years it's also been swings and roundabouts; classes get balanced and rebalanced, today's crappiest class might be tomorrow's power player (and vice versa), skills come and go and come back, etc. I say, if you like Scholar, stick with it to the end because a lot of these jobs really become a whole different game at the top... and then they might get changed completely with the next expansion anyway :p

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Originally Posted by ItMe

How did you plan a whole day around running a dungeon?

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Wrong game, but in Dungeons & Dragons Online (DDO) there is a dungeon that can take upwards of an hour to clear if everyone is going in blind. It's called The Pit, and it's... pretty impressive. The central area is a massive multi-floor catwalk loaded with traps, suspended above a hundred foot drop into lava. And there's around half a dozen or so side areas the players have to go to, in a specific order, to clear the dungeon. Every single one of those rooms is fairly massive in their own right, with respawning mobs—some of which spam spells and status effects—and most notoriously, some fairly complex jumping puzzles that require precision platforming and multiple players working in cooperation (or one really clever Monk) to solve. Oh, and there's nothing actually pointing you to the right room, so you can end up wandering aimlessly trying to find just where to go for a long time, and almost as long trying to figure out how to get there. And you can fall off pretty much everything, including the catwalk in the center room.

It's basically the polar opposite of the 4 packs - boss - repeat hallway design FFXIV has established. And also terribly frustrating to do in a group that's not used to those elements being in an MMORPG. Which is to say... most MMORPGs players, lol. Fun to solo, provided you're playing a Monk, or Cleric, or Paladin.

Gods, I miss that game's dungeon design sometimes. It's entirely understandable that FFXIV didn't go in that direction to begin with, and moved further away from it after 2.0. But I wouldn't mind a big, mildly complex puzzle dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Swilly

So unless it's on-level, new content (right now, this is gonna be the level 80 stuff) or the player is new and getting help with mechanics, it's just an "autopilot" experience for most people.

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This doesn't change with current lv80 dungeons though. For instance the current patch's dungeon was an auto-pilot experience day 1 aside from two new boss mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Wrong game, but in Dungeons & Dragons Online (DDO) there is a dungeon that can take upwards of an hour to clear if everyone is going in blind. It's called The Pit, and it's... pretty impressive. The central area is a massive multi-floor catwalk loaded with traps, suspended above a hundred foot drop into lava. And there's around half a dozen or so side areas the players have to go to, in a specific order, to clear the dungeon. Every single one of those rooms is fairly massive in their own right, with respawning mobs—some of which spam spells and status effects—and most notoriously, some fairly complex jumping puzzles that require precision platforming and multiple players working in cooperation (or one really clever Monk) to solve. Oh, and there's nothing actually pointing you to the right room, so you can end up wandering aimlessly trying to find just where to go for a long time, and almost as long trying to figure out how to get there. And you can fall off pretty much everything, including the catwalk in the center room.

It's basically the polar opposite of the 4 packs - boss - repeat hallway design FFXIV has established. And also terribly frustrating to do in a group that's not used to those elements being in an MMORPG. Which is to say... most MMORPGs players, lol. Fun to solo, provided you're playing a Monk, or Cleric, or Paladin.

Gods, I miss that game's dungeon design sometimes. It's entirely understandable that FFXIV didn't go in that direction to begin with, and moved further away from it after 2.0. But I wouldn't mind a big, mildly complex puzzle dungeon.

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WoW also has a few dungeons that, once upon a time, were a significant time investment. Easily an hour, probably more to clear them. I'm guessing they got their investments back through Classic, since they were pretty much neutered in retail WoW.

In my relatively short but also significant stay in FF XI, I remember treading through Castle Zvahl. It was long and it was tedious, but it was really epic. I had a fun time with my guild there. Reaching the end and beating the boss was one of my fondest memories in FF XI. It was also partially what influenced my chocobo's name. I miss open world dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

WoW also has a few dungeons that, once upon a time, were a significant time investment. Easily an hour, probably more to clear them. I'm guessing they got their investments back through Classic, since they were pretty much neutered in retail WoW.

In my relatively short but also significant stay in FF XI, I remember treading through Castle Zvahl. It was long and it was tedious, but it was really epic. I had a fun time with my guild there. Reaching the end and beating the boss was one of my fondest memories in FF XI. I miss open world dungeons.

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I still remember when Yoshi-P said a lead designer from XIV was interested in bringing open world dungeons back. Whatever the reason may be, at this point the idea was probably abandoned along with other due schedule not letting them deviate much from what we're used to.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

WoW also has a few dungeons that, once upon a time, were a significant time investment. Easily an hour, probably more to clear them. I'm guessing they got their investments back through Classic, since they were pretty much neutered in retail WoW.

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Yep, the classic Blackrock Depths are, to this day, the probably best designed dungeon ever. It was absolutely massive and the time to complete it could take anywhere from an hour to several depending on how many of the 21 bosses you wanted to kill.

But what made it stand out to me, compared to the joke that are XIV dungeons, was that it was designed like an actual city. It had a prison quarter (with a "court"), an arena, living quarters, a giant forge, a golem factory, a tavern, a tomb, the throne room of the king and several other quarters you would expect a city built into a mountain to actually have because, you know, people actually live there.


This design however probably just doesn't work anymore in today's mmos. People don't want to have to decide which parts of the dungeon they're going to do and potentially spend hours inside said dungeon, even WoW stopped doing those despite all the classic dungeons feeling incredibly impressive. People would probably have a meltdown if you introduced a dungeon like that in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Arendir

As an example, and what compelled me to post, was my disappointment upon reaching level 30 and unlocking Scholar; I've been excited about Scholar since I picked up the game because I heard it was a complex healing class with a lot of support options after reading some guides, though after I unlocked it I lost more abilities and complexity than I gained. Similarly, the pets seem redundant which was both very confusing and disappointing as a new player; I was looking forward to the support pet as I want to play a support class but I've learned since that the two pets are the same now I think? While I'm sure the healing functionality is useful in groups, it not useful or fun for me while leveling with my girlfriend as the game is too easy to require heals (another issue which has made things less engaging). Gameplay-wise it doesn't feel like the class that is depicted in the story or that I'd heard about. Basically, it sounds like much of what I read that had made me interested in the class (and game as a whole) has since changed in the recent expansion.

Similarly, the dungeon experience is not very new player friendly. My girlfriend and I planned a whole day around running a dungeon and were super excited to jump in but instead of an interesting experience with social elements and teamwork, we were thrown into an AoE rush and honestly felt overwhelmed, confused, and bored all at once. We had no time to learn anything, meet players, or actually play the dungeon. We felt like dead weight and we weren't having a good time because it was mindless.

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First, I strongly recommend that you and your girlfriend look for a Free Company that takes the time to teach members dungeon mechanics and offer a great social atmosphere that you can call home. Second, you're still "lower level" and it will feel clunky and disjointed. My SMN is also my SCH. It wasn't until after hitting 60 that I felt comfortable with the abilities. Using the SCH abilities requires you make the right choices of what you want to employ.

Being new to the game and playing class/jobs one some level require a good learning curve. Keep at it. You may come to find that the SCH isn't want you were looking for and find it in the AST. Or you may decide to try WHM (which I recommend if you are more a healing centered player). Good luck to the both of you.

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

The faster part is definitely not the fault of the game design.

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This - if anything it's designed the complete opposite by gating everything behind MSQ.

Also the first 50 levels are a trainwreck.

Reading the OP's post, it feels like he was looking forward to something more complex with a solo/coop feel like a console version of the game with the whole complexity and immersion that those kinds of games give.

Unfortunately though, this is a MMORPG and like it or not, you gotta deal with all the people around you, especially in group stuff like dungeons and trials.

This can very easily kill immersion as people rush, rush, rush, as they have seen it a thousand times before and care little about the new person who wants to take their time.

And as others have said, there is very little difficulty with the normal/casual stuff in the game. Anything hard is gated behind the EX/Savage stuff and optional stuff like Eureka/Bozja.

If the OP wants an actual HARD dungeon, which will take a while to beat; there is only one in the game and that is the Arsenal at the end of Eureka. But it will be a long time before he can get access to that if he chooses to seek it out.

I notice a lot of people throwing "you're only lv37" at the guy without considering that if lv37 is long enough (and really, SCH won't gain that much until after 50) for a new player to reconsider their choice of game, then maybe the 1-50 experience is just too simplified?

What's the point of claiming "we can't give classes more abilities and depth at low levels or new players brains will explode" when new players are literally right here giving feedback that they hate it and want more complexity?

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I notice a lot of people throwing "you're only lv37" at the guy without considering that if lv37 is long enough (and really, SCH won't gain that much until after 50) for a new player to reconsider their choice of game, then maybe the 1-50 experience is just too simplified?

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Agreed.
I think this also adds to older player's frustration and boredom when doing older content as well. They level-sync down and loose half their kit, making it a slog going through their rotation or even detrimental, as the go to push cooldowns that aren't there (like tank's defensive cooldowns).

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I notice a lot of people throwing "you're only lv37" at the guy without considering that if lv37 is long enough (and really, SCH won't gain that much until after 50) for a new player to reconsider their choice of game, then maybe the 1-50 experience is just too simplified?
What's the point of claiming "we can't give classes more abilities and depth at low levels or new players brains will explode" when new players are literally right here giving feedback that they hate it and want more complexity?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Agreed.
I think this also adds to older player's frustration and boredom when doing older content as well. They level-sync down and loose half their kit, making it a slog going through their rotation or even detrimental, as the go to push cooldowns that aren't there (like tank's defensive cooldowns).

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I definitely felt this hard. SCH was my main ever since it's available to be unlocked and has been one until now. Back when I was still going through MSQ, personally I do not find the toolkits boring. Clunky/Incomplete? Absolutely. But I went by up to the cap lv & still having fun.
HOWEVER, when I turn my attention to another classes that I've never touched--again--I felt this hard. It's boring. Most are 1-2 1-2 1-2 or 1-2-3, rinse and repeat. Lv52 and higher was when I thought it started to pick up (some are arguably lv60+. I.e. BLM). It was plausible for me that Lv1 - Lv52 was 'fun' for my MSQ as SCH because I believe that's because it was my first time. Subsequent runs? It turns into a chore, sorta.
Few times I left by impulse just because roulette thrown me into very low lv dungeon several times in a row within few days. I.. really do not enjoy that.

OP hasn't posted since starting this thread.
OP, did you just bounce or are you still lurking?
I hope we were any help.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

OP hasn't posted since starting this thread.
OP, did you just bounce or are you still lurking?
I hope we were any help.

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I was in the process of posting a reply pointing this out. I felt afraid too many people jumped on them at once.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I was in the process of posting a reply pointing this out. I felt afraid too many people jumped on them at once.

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I mean, they posted on a public forum.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I miss open world dungeons.

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You and me both. :)

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I was in the process of posting a reply pointing this out. I felt afraid too many people jumped on them at once.

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Yeah, that's the inherent problem with the forum community versus the actual community. People are really nice in the game and many are talkative or like to help out but you wouldn't know it by reading stuff in here.

Someone even suggested the OP might be better off playing a shooter or that being lower than lvl 80 automatically invalidates every (negative) criticism you have.

And expecting an MMO to be centred around tactics, group play and coordination doesn't seem too far-fetched to me. haha Yes, even outside of raiding and the like.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

In my relatively short but also significant stay in FF XI, I remember treading through Castle Zvahl. It was long and it was tedious, but it was really epic. I had a fun time with my guild there. Reaching the end and beating the boss was one of my fondest memories in FF XI. It was also partially what influenced my chocobo's name. I miss open world dungeons.

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FFXIV is a very different beast than FFXI, by design. FFXIV is deliberately intended to be extremely harmless in its overworld areas (seriously, once you get past ARR, it's all but impossible to die so long as you make any sort of effort to survive), and the only real dangers can be found in instanced combat. This puts a serious hamper on the idea of overworld dungeons, as adding areas where a newbie can blunder in and get killed by actual danger goes against the design philosophy of the game.

FFXIV was a dangerous place. Even something as mundane as walking to an exp camp was incredibly risky, at times - and that was undoubtedly a turn-off for a lot of prospective players. FFXIV cast a much wider net, hoping to attract both casual AND hardcore players by putting the tough stuff safely away in instanced content. I think it's pretty clear they succeeded; the playerbase for FFXIV is much, MUCH larger than FFXI's was, even in its prime. That said, as someone who played FFXI for over a decade, I have far more fond memories of that game than of this one (even factoring in that I've played this game for less time). The achievements I made in FFXI seem so much more meaningful, since I had to claw and scrape for every inch. The simple act of getting a job to 75 (max level in that game for most of its lifespan) was an achievement far more memorable in my mind than any of the Savage raids I've won in this game.