Classes are dreadfully boring to play at lv 50 and below. Something needs to be done.

It is such a drag to level a new class or get a low level dungeon when alot of your skills are disabled and you only have a few skills to use. There should be more skills added into lv 10-60 range. I suggest moving some high level skills down to below 50, or allow your skills to be usable regardless of synced content you're doing. Please let Yoshi or whoever in charge of class balance in Japan know this.

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Originally Posted by SharkDrake

It is such a drag to level a new class or get a low level dungeon when alot of your skills are disabled and you only have a few skills to use. There should be more skills added into lv 10-60 range. I suggest moving some high level skills down to below 50, or allow your skills to be usable regardless of synced content you're doing. Please let Yoshi or whoever in charge of class balance in Japan know this.

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They made this problem. I think they have seen the other threads about it. I doubt it'll ever go away.

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Originally Posted by SharkDrake

It is such a drag to level a new class or get a low level dungeon when alot of your skills are disabled and you only have a few skills to use.

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There is no good way around this problem, not when the level and content gap is as large as it is now. Even if they did, say, a level squish, all that would happen is that low-level content would get put into lower levels and you'd still only have access to the same skills. There is, to be quite blunt about it, just too much shit in the game. The only way you're going to get around this problem is if you made all skills available at level 50 and no further progression is added on top, but you have to keep into consideration that...

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Originally Posted by SharkDrake

...or allow your skills to be usable regardless of synced content you're doing...

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...this is also a godawful idea for reasons discussed in this here thread.

The biggest point I've seen made is as they increase the level cap they want to maintain the sense of character growth so they spread out what you can do through out the upper levels. In whoever designs the way it all works out it's cool because it keeps "button bloat down" and I guess they feel they have pumped up how fast everyone levels to make it seem not so bad for the assumed short time you'll be level 50 and below..

The problem there is so much stuff that keeps you synched down to 50 and below, roulettes most alliance raid roulette queues helping fc members with a dungeon (if not unsyched) or new players.. and also as you said leveling another class.

I've seen screen shots of previous times before stormblood and also played during the 2.stuff times and the amount of skills at the time was much greater than what we get now, but it isn't so much the skill amount that defines fun gameplay for me and probably many others...

What really gets me is the mind numbing formula dungeons tend to go by. Pull trash to a road block spin your aoes kill boss repeat.. very few dungeons present any real challenge or interesting mechs. But we pay for it monthly. I am not as into just wanting to log in and do dungeons as I used to be I like to socialize and mess with housing stuff, but continually grow more bored with these aspects as the game "evolves". Been having fun with doing pvp oddly but only because I have been going with friends and dying horribly and talking about sugary treats the whole time.

Free level/story skip coming with the next expansion.

Their mistake was to not rely more on uprgading skills... that way we could have like 2-3x as much skills, but using still the same ammount of buttons. While it also sucks how, with all the homogenization they still didnt manage to give jobs their base rotation, aoe rotation and stuff like gabclosers around the same levels...

By how the game is made, we got more sub lv 50 or lv 50 stuff then for the rest and rouletts will always drag you there more, as the range is just so large - plus we have ppl taking off gear just for a braindead tower run...

Skills need to be more spread out. Atm most of them are in 50-70 levels leaving 1-50 and 70-80 bone dry

Skill shouldn't be disabled by level sync...

Some skills upgrade into more powerful versions as you level... what if they just did more of that.
For skills you would get later... they could give you a weaker version of it earlier more often so you have a more complete kit earlier.

Otherwise, BLM effectively has a different rotation at lower levels than it does at higher ones. Maybe they should lean into the kits coming together differently at lower levels so it doesn't feel like you're doing a lesser version of level 80 stuff.

Honestly I know it's not going to happen, but they should take a page from Guildwars' design. You have basically all of your basic kit set maybe 1/2 way through the base game (so level 25ish in FFXIV). The rotations are fairly sleek in GW2 and involve more combinations on a sort of tech-tree rather than skillful button presses..so that's a big difference. But you can basically be set.

I'd say, with your core rotation set at 25, you get additional ogcd uses as you level up, or maybe skill speed increases or utility abilities. (eg jump should ignore typical damage with the orange-tells). I would be fine if post 25 the classes were essentially set, but as you leveled up the mechanics became more complicated (eg the introduction of the "spinning around" mechanic in 4.0 raids, then used in 5.0 dungeon bosses, or interactive terrain)

I guess basically I'm a fan of the actual reactive play becoming more complex (eg dodging mechanics or otherwise dealing with mobs/switching smoothly from AOE to single target rotations, or using creative positioning) rather than the actual "piloting" the character being complex (aka park in a spot, do the 12 button presses in correct sequence while moving slightly out of the way with plenty of time to do so)

Adjust level sync to not lose any actions, or give us all actions at lvl 50. It's inevitable, current system will eventually kill this game, if you will have to press 3 buttons till level 70 a lot of new players will bounce off (they already do it in ARR).

Considering the latest unofficial population numbers you guys could not be farther from the truth. The game is going strong and will be for a very long time. ENJOY IT!

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Originally Posted by Cetek14

Adjust level sync to not lose any actions, or give us all actions at lvl 50. It's inevitable, current system will eventually kill this game, if you will have to press 3 buttons till level 70 a lot of new players will bounce off (they already do it in ARR).

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I came close to bouncing for this reason. I made an alt to just try to recapture the "magic" got to about 40 and was like wut.

When the game was newer, your level 50 hotbar had about as much buttons as it does at level 80 now.

I do think it's kinda lame to havel lvl 50 and below stuff be pretty much two or three buttons, but I think the only reasonable fix would be to make it so that the basic version of every skill is unlocked by lvl 50, and everything past that point is skill upgrades. Upgrading Broil to Broil II and such, maybe occasionally adding mechanics to your already existing skills.

I was leveling summoner lately, I was surprised to find out that from lvl 70 to 80, no actual new hotbar buttons get added, it's all stuff that gets added to your already existing skills. Basically, they'd have to make it like that for every class in the game from lvl 50 to 80 (or 90 in the coming expac)

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Considering the latest unofficial population numbers you guys could not be farther from the truth. The game is going strong and will be for a very long time. ENJOY IT!

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Just because it's popular doesn't make it good.

They definitely need to redesign it so you have the standard combos, AoEs and other mechanics before level 15. At least at a partial potency and then gets upgraded afterwards.

Not too sure about the gameplay shift for higher levels like how SMN gains the Demi mechanic at 70, and how BLM gets the Enochian system at 60. To be honest it would be better if they were gained at level 50 and potencies get upgraded afterwards, because some jobs really suffer from the incompleteness.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Just because it's popular doesn't make it good.

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While I agree, you have to keep in mind SE is still a business and wants as many customers as it gets. If their current design is gaining them players, I see no real reason why they should consider, for themselves, to stop.

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Originally Posted by Cetek14

Adjust level sync to not lose any actions, or give us all actions at lvl 50. It's inevitable, current system will eventually kill this game, if you will have to press 3 buttons till level 70 a lot of new players will bounce off (they already do it in ARR).

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I agree that level sync should allow us to keep the skills we've already learned. However, I think it is a huge stretch to say that the current system will kill the game. Let's keep things reasonable, yeah?

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Just because it's popular doesn't make it good.

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Point taken. Look at WoW.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Point taken. Look at WoW.

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Yeah. I'm a long time WoW player (and FF XIV player) and I ended up bowing out of their latest expansion about 2 weeks in. It's...questionable to put it mildly, in more than a few ways. Heck, they even started sending out very lengthy surveys already. They usually don't do that unless it's ugly behind the scenes.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Their mistake was to not rely more on uprgading skills... that way we could have like 2-3x as much skills, but using still the same ammount of buttons. While it also sucks how, with all the homogenization they still didnt manage to give jobs their base rotation, aoe rotation and stuff like gabclosers around the same levels...

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This, on both points.

MCH is really sync friendly. Automaton queen turns into turret, Air Anchor turns into Hot Shot and my bars (PS4) stay exactly as they are at 80. Where as with WHM and PLD I have pre 50 hotbars and 80 hotbars, because they don’t upgrade anything, just replace it with new stuff.

And yeah, a bit annoying to go in a dungeon and have no aoe while the dancer does.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah. I'm a long time WoW player (and FF XIV player) and I ended up bowing out of their latest expansion about 2 weeks in. It's...questionable to put it mildly, in more than a few ways. Heck, they even started sending out very lengthy surveys already. They usually don't do that unless it's ugly behind the scenes.

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They're probably rather desperate to make Shadowlands a success. BFA was such a huge disaster that their Activision overlords are breathing down their neck.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

They're probably rather desperate to make Shadowlands a success. BFA was such a huge disaster that their Activision overlords are breathing down their neck.

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Well, if they were actually desperate then they might have tried harder while creating it. lol Anymore it isn't about players enjoying the game. It is all about the time played metric, whatever the cost. I'm done feeding that metric.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

This, on both points.

MCH is really sync friendly. Automaton queen turns into turret, Air Anchor turns into Hot Shot and my bars (PS4) stay exactly as they are at 80. Where as with WHM and PLD I have pre 50 hotbars and 80 hotbars, because they don’t upgrade anything, just replace it with new stuff.

And yeah, a bit annoying to go in a dungeon and have no aoe while the dancer does.

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This is more on the point MCH doesn’t develop what so ever rather than it being “synch friendly” and if every job had MCH design philosophy the game will be freaking boring that all your looking forward too are shallow upgrades

I kinda don’t care about this topic unless theirs a fan base really crossing fingers for sastasha to be played more often. Look 50 stuff and under can be boring all we can hope is that they balance out the jobs abit more at 50 Under 50 is a realm I really don’t care about but some jobs having no Aoe options is abit bizzare and should get them earlier that’s about it. They are starter dungeons having your full 80 kit while new players are just standing around makes the dungeons trivial more worse if they are over leveled due a poor system giving you 6 levels and having job quests in areas that you never seen before

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Their mistake was to not rely more on uprgading skills... that way we could have like 2-3x as much skills, but using still the same ammount of buttons. While it also sucks how, with all the homogenization they still didnt manage to give jobs their base rotation, aoe rotation and stuff like gabclosers around the same levels...

By how the game is made, we got more sub lv 50 or lv 50 stuff then for the rest and rouletts will always drag you there more, as the range is just so large - plus we have ppl taking off gear just for a braindead tower run...

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I think the reasoning behind this was that they didn't want to overwhelm new players with too many buttons early on; they wanted the addition of new abilities to be gradual enough for people to slowly learn them while leveling.

I do agree that the level synching is kind of a drag, but there aren't many good ways around it.

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Originally Posted by SharkDrake

It is such a drag to level a new class or get a low level dungeon when alot of your skills are disabled and you only have a few skills to use. There should be more skills added into lv 10-60 range. I suggest moving some high level skills down to below 50, or allow your skills to be usable regardless of synced content you're doing. Please let Yoshi or whoever in charge of class balance in Japan know this.

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I don't find it boring at all. Perhaps some minor adjustments to when aoe skills are given is warranted but that's about it. No need for an 80 level job kit in Satasha.

Yeah, at this point I hate the combat under lv50 so much I pretend leveling roulette doesn't exist. I'll take PotD, fates or even GUILDLEVES over it.

I don't remember their stance on this being expressed, but even if they claimed it was so players wouldn't be overwhelmed I seriously wouldn't buy that. The one common complaint I've seen from almost every relatively new player I invite or who join the FCs I'm in is about how they hate syncing down to the ARR MSQ duties. Most players don't struggle with so few buttons and the staff shouldn't implement solutions for non-existing problems.

I enjoy leveling roulette. I get to chill and collect 20 of the latest currency to boot. Tis win win.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

I enjoy leveling roulette. I get to chill and collect 20 of the latest currency to boot. Tis win win.

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I use it to...level things. Been running my dps classes that I haven't finished yet through that roulette and Alliance on a daily basis.

They should at least move the 1st basic aoe skill from every class to around level 18. It's a miserable experience for some getting Satasha and be like a fool single targetting the packs while Dancers & others can fully hit everything..

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Originally Posted by Raikai

They should at least move the 1st basic aoe skill from every class to around level 18. It's a miserable experience for some getting Satasha and be like a fool single targetting the packs while Dancers & others can fully hit everything..

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I second this, Ranged is fine with this (DNC could use a nerf like dance mastery at 50 to bring back its original potency)

NIN- gets Death blossom at late 30s, and Aoe mudra at 35

MNK gets Arms a tad bit too late at 26

DRG needs all the help it can get it doesn’t get a half way decent Aoe groove until what sonic at 60+? Doom Pike isn’t that good anyways and it being at 40 makes things worse

SAM is also needs to get Fuga sooner being again at 26 but it’s probably at the best place as it’s Aoe feels very solid at 50 much like MNK.

So play the game for like a day to get above 50?

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Originally Posted by Reap00

I enjoy leveling roulette. I get to chill and collect 20 of the latest currency to boot. Tis win win.

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I cap on the 450 tomestones in a day with hunt trains so I simply don't bother with the roulette unless to help friends skip queue time.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I cap on the 450 tomestones in a day with hunt trains so I simply don't bother with the roulette unless to help friends skip queue time.

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Yea that is one of the cool parts about the game. You don't have to stick with one activity to cap.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Yea that is one of the cool parts about the game. You don't have to stick with one activity to cap.

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That doesn't address the fact being synced down is dreadfully boring for a good chunk of players, and something that should be looked into next expansion.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

That doesn't address the fact being synced down is dreadfully boring for a good chunk of players, and something that should be looked into next expansion.

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You are welcome to your opinion. The game has been setup this way since launch. I highly doubt you will see a change to how content is level synced.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

You are welcome to your opinion. The game has been setup this way since launch. I highly doubt you will see a change to how content is level synced.

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even if they dont change how content is level synced things can be improved within the same system, such as having even a few more skills from earlier levels to make synced content ledd boring. and by this i don't mean having your full rotation synced, but things such as having an aoe attack since sastasha or getting key skills like aetherflow (sch) earlier than level 45.

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Originally Posted by Doki

So play the game for like a day to get above 50?

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And never queue for any daily roulette that would put you at a low level? Ok...

Like someone previously said, the next expansion might see some more skill trimming, likely for low-level abilities to accommodate the new ones.

The low level experience is going to get much worse for both new players and people tolerating the level sync. Telling people to just avoid doing roulettes that'll sync you to a lower level is not a solution.