Can we please see more engagement and activity from our community representatives?

I've been contemplating posting this for a while now. More than once I've written up something along these lines only to avoid posting it in the hope that things, in time, might just improve on their own. As it stands, though, they have not.

I've been posting on this forum for years. I enjoy the game for the most part and as a consequence of that enjoyment I like engaging with the community that has formed here - and I've made a few good friends in the process. So, with all that said allow me to get to the core of the matter.

Where are our community representatives?

From time to time, we see a thread made where a community representative introduces themselves. They're usually given a warm welcome but it's very rare to see them post again afterwards.

More recently - and without naming names - this forum has been plagued with subtly worded bait threads and thread 'necromancy' designed to frustrate and irritate the forum community.

This would likely be more apparent if the community representatives assigned to the English language portion of the forum spent more time here and less time on Twitter.

I do not want to come across as mean. I'd like to think that the community representatives are keeping tabs on things here. Perhaps their hands are simply tied for whatever reason. So I, on behalf of the forum community, humbly request that feedback is passed along to the development team in the vein of allowing the community representatives to have more freedom in regards to how and when they can post.

Even a simple comment on a constructive suggestion thread can do a world of good in regards to making people here feel as though their feedback is taken into account. To use an example, there's a pretty major concern from European players such as myself, as seen here:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ver-getting-it

This is the sort of thread I would expect to get more attention and an urgent response. It isn't an unreasonable request, after all - and if players are going to miss out on a mount altogether just because they aren't in the North American or Japanese region then it would be beneficial to know why.

I could link other examples of constructive threads that I would argue deserve attention from community representatives, but I'll keep it to just one example for now.

Again, I am not writing this with the intention of shaming our community representatives. This is just a humble request to be as visible and active here as you are on Twitter.

For every 1 constructive there are 20 or so threads of people separating into 2 groups and throwing passive aggressiveness around passing it as constructive criticism. The reason those titanmen troll thread keep on coming is cause They Work. Im gonna say it i dont think the few constructive criticisms are good enough as an arguement. However i understand that nonconstuctive criticism is better than no criticism. What they should do is revert the we from now on only reveal patch notes the day prior to the patch because it really feels disingenuous. If all this massive amount of "info" from the community is indeed heard then you would want it out as soon as possible, scheduling aside ofc, by my current understanding though the only feedback they get is the japanese one because even though in their servers they ostracize people , with public blacklists they act together. The only time the eu and na(cl) playerbase was ever mentioned was in eureka cause all 3 playerbase had different prespectives.
Whatever the case what id massively prefer over this confusion of screams , is that role/job wise they take the time to stream about the thought process behind changes maybe with a Q&A from a thread they make and even a pole for a good measure.


Edit1 didnt even manage to write the whole thing and another titanmen alt is here

I'll say that community engagement is non existent in my opinion. I never use any other kind of "social media" outside of the forums or the game itself pertaining to FFXIV. I have not seen our representatives say or do anything really. I do not know or even care who they are and have no opinion of them. If their job is to govern our forums then they aren't doing good at it.

On the flip side of this tho, the several times I needed game master assistance within the game itself the gms were courteous, polite and pretty fast to address what few issues I had paged them for.

With all this said, I can give praise where it is due but I also give "criticism" where it is due. And if indeed it is their responsibility to patrol the forums and clean them up then I'd be sure to at first educate them on their responsibility, if they continue to neglect it punish them, then if they cant get it together get some new talent.

Sadly this is typical SE behavior. Even when I still played XI there were many a time when people at least on the non JP side of things felt ignored and I'm not just talking about not picking non JP questions for Q&A sessions, but just some form of feedback or moderation.

I remember there was a time on those forums where people went and elevated a few select fellow players as authority figures on subjects to where people would post in threads wondering if this will be a thread that either a community rep or said player would respond or not. These threads wouldn't be on things that a player wouldn't be able to have any information on. More like arguments about Bis, lore, rotations ect. Mostly due to how secretive the XI devs would be about combat and stats.

It's ridiculous tbh. I am just going to stick to reddit and discord at this point.

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

For every 1 constructive there are 20 or so threads of people separating into 2 groups and throwing passive aggressiveness around passing it as constructive criticism. The reason those titanmen troll thread keep on coming is cause They Work. Im gonna say it i dont think the few constructive criticisms are good enough as an arguement. However i understand that nonconstuctive criticism is better than no criticism. What they should do is revert the we from now on only reveal patch notes the day prior to the patch because it really feels disingenuous. If all this massive amount of "info" from the community is indeed heard then you would want it out as soon as possible, scheduling aside ofc, by my current understanding though the only feedback they get is the japanese one because even though in their servers they ostracize people , with public blacklists they act together. The only time the eu and na(cl) playerbase was ever mentioned was in eureka cause all 3 playerbase had different prespectives.
Whatever the case what id massively prefer over this confusion of screams , is that role/job wise they take the time to stream about the thought process behind changes maybe with a Q&A from a thread they make and even a pole for a good measure.


Edit1 didnt even manage to write the whole thing and another titanmen alt is here

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I would really like to hear more input with where they were going with the ideas for jobs etc that are put in place. Probably would quell a little bit of salt on the eu/na(cl) side, plus would be really nice to know.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Er, what?

I've been posting on this forum for years as a regular presence. I'm also on a completely different datacentre/server to the poster you mentioned and his suspected alts (who, incidentally, are all in the same free company and make no effort to hide themselves).

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I regret taking the bait and responding to this thread. Now titan man is playing me. What you just said is exactly what I expect titan man to say when we find out another one of your forum alts. I actually come to these forums for important ff14 discussions and not to get baited into these troll threads. So yeah, you got me good this time.

Wow... Theodric is definitely not a troll *face palms*.. on the bright side guys they have been deleting some threads so its given me a little bit of hope that they're stepping up their game.

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Originally Posted by Seddrinth

I regret taking the bait and responding to this thread. Now titan man is playing me. What you just said is exactly what I expect titan man to say when we find out another one of your forum alts. I actually come to these forums for important ff14 discussions and not to get baited into these troll threads. So yeah, you got me good this time.

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Wow, this is a first. Course now I'm highly suspicious of you as sure Theodric might be anti Hydelean and what not, but he's definitely not a troll. I mean sure I might not like him because I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on a lot of things, but again I'm fairly sure he's not a troll.

Yeah - I spend my money on extra retainers and FFXIV merchandise, not extra forum accounts. :p

It is terrible that many good/great posters have been run off to Reddit or Discord, whether due to being banned by the overmoderation here over the years or the allowance of trolls and bullies now because of lack of moderation. Reddit and Discord is a free-for-all that is just not suitable for everyone. Personally I do not want to wade through an ocean of cursing and insults just to talk about or find information on the game. However there are times that I cannot find even basic answers here at times. It is sad that the “official” forum has become a shell of what it once was. I do not understand what Square Enix is thinking or doing when it comes to the forum.

They need to drop bans from years ago if the players are still active. Too many were banned unfairly and if they could come back here, a new life could be brought to this place. Many of those players were very active and participated in lots of positive informational conversations. SE also needs a new moderation team whose first language is English because there is a lot that is posted that is idioms, colloquialisms, localized slang and such. Trying to figure out the meaning of written communication without seeing facial expressions is hard enough, but when you try to figure this out in a different language it can cause some big problems and major mistakes. I am not trying to say anything bad about non-native speakers. I just think it makes a difference when what you are interpreting can make the difference between whether someone is banned permanently or not. Then again, maybe a non-native speaker would be more careful.


It is difficult. I was the moderator for one of the official NFL (National Football League) teams for several years. It was a hard job because this team was unique in that it wanted a very ‘clean’ forum - which meant no cursing, no insulting, etc. - so you can imagine game days or when other team trolls visited. But at least this was a free forum. You did not pay. However, if you got banned from that forum, you were quite limited as to where you could discuss your team. Over time, things changed for that team in its administration and that trickled down to all parts of the organization, including their forum. They decided to ease the restrictions and become like every other teams’ forum out there...a cesspool of cursing, trolling, bullying, etc. I was not going to be part of that and did not wish to be with the new administration anyway. But even before I left, the forum was going to hades in a hand basket. People kept emailing me asking for the “old ways”, but I was not the boss. Not much I could say or do. But I hated what happened to that beloved forum which was set apart for being different and better.

That is how I feel about this forum now. I have always been more of a lurker and reader than a big poster. I got burnt out after all those years on the football forum, hahaha. But seriously, after 7+ years this has still been my home. I don’t do Reddit unless I just have to find info (like the fashion report or something) and I just do not get Discord. *shrug* I just wish this forum could go back to the way it used to be. Please SE. PLEASE!

Thanks for reading and for your consideration.
˚₊★‧ℒℴѵℯ❣Hina‧☆₊˚

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yeah - I spend my money on extra retainers and FFXIV merchandise, not extra forum accounts. :p

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Same here!

With over 10k posts combined can we summon the community leaders XD? like some sort of Captain Planet move? Wonder twins unite... Love Earth . .

Spirit Bomb? Goku?

At least... If we strip down into our spangled subligars do we get Reinheart to grace us? They used to exist here on the other side of the forums with us.

Is there naught we can do to talk to, or at least hear from? In general I understand the reticence to be like "yeah we got your feedback we'll look into it" as it makes some people act as if it was promised (and there is the whole extra barrier of language from headquarters to us).. but the silence has always been strong element and now given that we're at the whims of one person (and or a few copy cats) the silence . . . well it doesn't help lol.

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Originally Posted by Seddrinth

I regret taking the bait and responding to this thread. Now titan man is playing me. What you just said is exactly what I expect titan man to say when we find out another one of your forum alts. I actually come to these forums for important ff14 discussions and not to get baited into these troll threads. So yeah, you got me good this time.

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This is not a troll thread. Also you can easily see that Theo is not the same as the other accounts in how they post and what they find humor in. Theo actively avoids politics and any humorous thread that has been created was at the expense of no one. Our gremlin is certainly not Theo.

I think Reinhart and his subligars of glory got lost in translation some where Shogun.

Would definitely like a little more engagement or at least active moderation. It's very obvious to the regulars what is going on and while we're doing our best to report and ignore, it really isn't our responsibility to do so. There are people who have been engaged to manage the community and make it welcoming. Please help us.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Would definitely like a little more engagement or at least active moderation. It's very obvious to the regulars what is going on and while we're doing our best to report and ignore, it really isn't our responsibility to do so. There are people who have been engaged to manage the community and make it welcoming. Please help us.

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The bigger issue is the fact that it seems reporting is doing little. I'm reporting literally every single thread their various accounts start, and a good deal of their commentary elsewhere (and from what I see, a fair few are doing this too), but almost nothing is being done - or at least not at a visibly prompt rate to clean up the absolute mess that is the forums at this point.

Between reports feeling as though they fall on deaf ears, and the utter lack of interaction from community representatives outside of introductions and the rare post in a large thread gaining traction, it's very easy to feel the NA forums have been proverbially thrown to the wolves.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

The bigger issue is the fact that it seems reporting is doing little. I'm reporting literally every single thread their various accounts start, and a good deal of their commentary elsewhere (and from what I see, a fair few are doing this too), but almost nothing is being done - or at least not at a visibly prompt rate to clean up the absolute mess that is the forums at this point.

Between reports feeling as though they fall on deaf ears, and the utter lack of interaction from community representatives outside of introductions and the rare post in a large thread gaining traction, it's very easy to feel the NA forums have been proverbially thrown to the wolves.

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The worst part is threads that call them out directly are quickly wiped, while the 3 year old necro threads with replies about funding FF16 are left stinking up the place with no response. So we know SOMEONE is there, but bizarrely nothing is being done about the problematic posts.

I can't even recall the names of any of the community representatives at this point. Last time I did some digging to find one out of curiosity, it turned out that particular person had moved to work at a complete different company.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

The bigger issue is the fact that it seems reporting is doing little. I'm reporting literally every single thread their various accounts start, and a good deal of their commentary elsewhere (and from what I see, a fair few are doing this too), but almost nothing is being done - or at least not at a visibly prompt rate to clean up the absolute mess that is the forums at this point.

Between reports feeling as though they fall on deaf ears, and the utter lack of interaction from community representatives outside of introductions and the rare post in a large thread gaining traction, it's very easy to feel the NA forums have been proverbially thrown to the wolves.

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Have also been reporting once in a while, and at this point it's almost like the troll is a mod/admin themself. What with legitimate threads getting closed and/or deleted while a certain Necromancer and alts run around.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Have also been reporting once in a while, and at this point it's almost like the troll is a mod/admin themself. What with legitimate threads getting closed and/or deleted while a certain Necromancer and alts run around.

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I suppose stranger things have happened than sabotage from within a company...

Speaking of which, the male viera thread was outright deleted for a while which happened right around the same time all this recent spam resurfaced with a vengeance.

Like 90% of the topics on the first page, abd many on subsequent pages, are all just troll posts made by one person. Can they really not just IP ban at this point? Really seems like there's zero moderation here.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I suppose stranger things have happened than sabotage from within a company...

Speaking of which, the male viera thread was outright deleted for a while which happened right around the same time all this recent spam resurfaced with a vengeance.

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Interestingly enough, said thread seems to have gone untouched by our resident troll(s), even though it tends to fall off the radar every so often and attracts enough volatility. Not implying anything, but it's fun to tinfoil hat it :)

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Originally Posted by Seddrinth

I regret taking the bait and responding to this thread. Now titan man is playing me. What you just said is exactly what I expect titan man to say when we find out another one of your forum alts. I actually come to these forums for important ff14 discussions and not to get baited into these troll threads. So yeah, you got me good this time.

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If you come here for important discussions, why is it that 90% of your posts are just attempts at stirring the pot?

Just look at this topic, people already point at each other for no obvious reason and call them a troll and the topic derails after not only one page. This is not a healthy climate for this forum or the community.

Can you moderators finally step in, please? -.-

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

The worst part is threads that call them out directly are quickly wiped, while the 3 year old necro threads with replies about funding FF16 are left stinking up the place with no response. So we know SOMEONE is there, but bizarrely nothing is being done about the problematic posts.

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Yeah, let us never forget #Ottergate. Completely harmless threads or threads with actual worthwhile discussion in them will get yeeted into the void at the drop of a hat, but blatant misuse and trolling of the forum gets... nothing. It really is difficult to not tinfoil hat a bit and believe it's some rogue moderator having their jollies at the expense of the general forum userbase.

What's truly sad is there's more likelihood for this thread and Edax's thread about the forum issues to get deleted, than there is the actual problem getting solved.

Not to excuse them of course, but I think community reps probably are also GMs (not 100% sure though), or they provide other support duties than the forums.

But if a community rep is reading this... please can we have some love on the PVP forum? We're nibbling on crumbs over there. <3

Hmm. Why can't we have a down vote button? Everything that gets like -50 turns less visible or something. I mean, you could still read it if you want. Not sure why we can't have that.

For a game they claim to be as widely popular as it is, the complete lack of engagement is unbelievable. During the transition between v1 and ARR there was barely a thread not touched by the community mods. They would speak to us directly, answering questions, letting us know they got the feedback or just having some casual conversation. We knew the mods, we likely them. We chatted, laughed, and debated with them. They were awesome. I know most of them left for other games during or after ARR. But man those were good days. It actually made you feel like SE cared.

They did have stock answers for some things, usually "just wait til 2.0!" and I called them out on that once because it was an issue that needed to be addressed. Funny enough it was about bots and trolling. And they personally answered, apologized and gave a better answer. They didn't give us details but it wasn't just a copy/paste answer, or worse, no answer at all like we get today. They engaged with us, and that is what mattered more than anything.

But now, nothing. They are barely any better on twitter and other social media platforms as well unless they are advertising a new addition to mog station.

I have no idea what is going on at SE, but you would think they would take a little more interest in their player base.

I honestly think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Yoshida promised a lot more, like a whole lot more, than they were able to deliver. Not only in content that was scrapped, like primals wondering the maps and FCs having the ability to capture them and use them in other content. But also things like housing, which was supposed to auto-generate wards as needed and fc seals being used to expand your house and its limits.

And instead of explaining why certain things could not be implemented and showcasing what could, like other companies do, they went instead into full wall of silence mode. And now, my guess, is he doesn't want anyone to make any promises they cannot fulfill, so they just went on full lockdown.

My theory is both the characters in the game like Zenos or Ranjit and Elidibus etc are written by developers children because they are pretty kiddy. It's a game, ok I get it. But if if someone is gonna stand on it and be like GREAT STORY AND WRITING, I highly suggest reading Teenage mutant ninja turtles secret of the ooze. Thousands of times better than what we get here and shredder bebop and rocksteady were way cooler than elidibus, ranjit or zenos. Also Tmnt is purposefully geared for kids but whatever floats your boat.

To step in that same direction of thinking starting to think these forums are moderated by that same crew that wrote the story and characters. You can read ir write for kotaku all you like but you will never deceive me into thinking crap like this will be passed as good or acceptable. Will say my escape key works fine. The story is a mighty chunk of stuff I do not care about in this game, but there are great elements to it. Same for the forum, it is pretty bad if you going to it for what it is for. You want to laugh a little on your lunch break, it hits the spot. The whole thing kind of a delightful disaster. I used to try and offer suggestions I'm done with that now tho. Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Hmm. Why can't we have a down vote button? Everything that gets like -50 turns less visible or something. I mean, you could still read it if you want. Not sure why we can't have that.

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A downvote system would just be abused and stifle opinions that are unpopular but not bad.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

A downvote system would just be abused and stifle opinions that are unpopular but not bad.

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Like my signature ;-)

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

I'll say that community engagement is non existent in my opinion. I never use any other kind of "social media" outside of the forums or the game itself pertaining to FFXIV. I have not seen our representatives say or do anything really. I do not know or even care who they are and have no opinion of them. If their job is to govern our forums then they aren't doing good at it.

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https://i.imgur.com/TlneIa1.png

I know people are frustrated with forum trolls but criticizing SE staff is also against forum rules. I would be careful to not be so blatantly critical against the forum moderation team.

https://sqex.to/hpS

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GMs would not actively take action against other types of behavior that were deemed to be “annoying but not crossing the line from an objective eye.” Instead encouraging the involved players to resolve the situation through communication, adding the players to the blacklist or other peaceful methods.

However, times have changed and although FINAL FANTASY is an MMORPG, it is now our belief that it is better for the community as a whole for us to “intervene in situations where a player is subjected to the abusive behavior of another player,” rather than “worrying about inhibiting communication between players.”

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That was said about the in-game moderation, but I think it applies somewhat for the forum moderation.

In short, being annoying is not necessarily a cause for moderation unless specific users are targeted and forum users should decide whether they would engage with such posts instead of relying on interventions by SE. Or SE could take a more hands-on approach, and we know what the reaction to that will be in the end.

At least, that's how I see it for now.

Now, as for the wider request for more engagement, yeah, I'm not sure what's going on there, but my guess is they will only respond if they have news to share from the devs or whatnot.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

My theory is both the characters in the game like Zenos or Ranjit and Elidibus etc are written by developers children because they are pretty kiddy. It's a game, ok I get it. But if if someone is gonna stand on it and be like GREAT STORY AND WRITING, I highly suggest reading Teenage mutant ninja turtles secret of the ooze. Thousands of times better than what we get here and shredder bebop and rocksteady were way cooler than elidibus, ranjit or zenos. Also Tmnt is purposefully geared for kids but whatever floats your boat.

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Agreed, certainly insofar as 5.3 Elidibus and those other names you mention are concerned.

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Originally Posted by linayar

https://sqex.to/hpS

That was said about the in-game moderation, but I think it applies somewhat for the forum moderation.

In short, being annoying is not necessarily a cause for moderation unless specific users are targeted and forum users should decide whether they would engage with such posts instead of relying on interventions by SE. Or SE could take a more hands-on approach, and we know what the reaction to that will be in the end.

At least, that's how I see it for now.

Now, as for the wider request for more engagement, yeah, I'm not sure what's going on there, but my guess is they will only respond if they have news to share from the devs or whatnot.

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If it was one or two interactions your argument would be plausible, but the simple fact is that it is not one or two isolated incidents.

This has been going on for months and IMHO is absolutely against the forum rules.

* Doing anything that is obstructs the use of the forum or FINAL FANTASY XIV for other users.
* Attempting to harm or obstruct the operation or use of this forum.

Necroing 3 year old threads obstructs the normal operations of the forums and obstructs other relevant posts from getting the attention they should.

Moderators are working. They are deleting threads and replies (actually quite a lot each day). There are also quite a few bans. It's completely down to the fact that many of you are incapable of judging what goes against forum rules and what doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Seddrinth

I regret taking the bait and responding to this thread. Now titan man is playing me. What you just said is exactly what I expect titan man to say when we find out another one of your forum alts. I actually come to these forums for important ff14 discussions and not to get baited into these troll threads. So yeah, you got me good this time.

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A real troll is not going to amass 6,000 posts and then try to reason with someone accusing him of being a troll in a civil non sarcastic manner. His opening post is sound - the community reps tend to not make their presence known.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

If it was one or two interactions your argument would be plausible, but the simple fact is that it is not one or two isolated incidents.

This has been going on for months and IMHO is absolutely against the forum rules.

* Doing anything that is obstructs the use of the forum or FINAL FANTASY XIV for other users.
* Attempting to harm or obstruct the operation or use of this forum.

Necroing 3 year old threads obstructs the normal operations of the forums and obstructs other relevant posts from getting the attention they should.

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I mean, it's irritating but it doesn't actually disrupt how the forums work. They mean stuff like malware or SQL injections and the like that actually cause the sites to crash. For example, I posted a few weeks ago about a thread that was linking to something in someone's signature (maybe an old website character card) and the website itself had been taken over by malware which was causing a problem with the forum. It seems to be fixed now, but that kind of thing is what's disrupting the normal function o the forum.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Facilitating a forum that works properly is a completely different thing to acting on the game improvement requests being made on that forum.

Forum management is (or should be) about keeping the discussion organised, threads in the right place, watching the discussion and acting if need be. If there's a system for feedback to be carried to the devs, that should be happening - but the fact that they haven't implemented that feedback isn't proof in itself that the feedback delivery isn't working. They are not obliged to respond to feedback if they disagree with it.

That said, the current state of the forum makes it very hard to sift out the genuine feedback from the manufactured outrage of bumping all the complaint posts they can find on a subject.

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Not sure what the purpose of this comment is unles it’s just to agree and reinforce what I said?

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

Not sure what the purpose of this comment is unles it’s just to agree and reinforce what I said?

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You seemed to be saying that action (or lack thereof) on forum feedback is proof that they're not doing their job.

My point is that even in a well-run forum that might not be happening, because the forum moderators are not the game designers.

"They delete threads asking for better moderation but let the troll continue" is a fair comparison of what they are and aren't doing as forum moderators.

"They delete threads about moderation but don't act on community feedback about the state of jobs" isn't a comparison because only one of those two things is their responsibility. Maybe it's a sign that they aren't passing the other feedback on, assuming its their job to do so, but we can't be certain that's the holdup when they're not in charge of implementing it.