FFXIV is a good game.
I have multiple characters at level 80, one being completely maxed out.
I have multiple characters at level 70, multiple at level 60, multiple level 50’s, I even have one at level 40. *wink.*
I think FFXIV could add something to really create a very fun experience, making the game great!
FFXIV has the potential to have some fun aspects added to it:
-Character development
-Alternate job leveling incentive
-Character Customization
-Community challenges (such as time attack races.)
This job would achieve all these goals (if done right) with very little effort by the development team!
The job is Onion Knight.
The concept I propose is the job would be a limited type job, and be locked only 10 leveled below current cap.
(Proposed only limits)
-10 levels below other classes
-Cannot use duty finder without the undersized setting selected.
(Onion Knight would have access to all other content including Eureka. Palace of the Dead and Heaven on High debatable possibly party only, no solo access?)
Job details:
Onion Knight:
-Starts at level 1.
-Has 0 actions and 0 traits.
-Gains actions and traits that the player has obtained from other classes (including Blue Mage.)
The higher the level of the Onion Knight, they higher the level of actions and traits they have access to the other classes the player has leveled.
Example:
Onion Knight level 30 would have access to all actions a player has up to level 30. A level 30 Onion Knight cannot use Prominence.
A level 40 Onion Knight cannot use Prominence if the player does not have PLD level 40 as well. Both the Onion Knight and the other class must be at the level to use the action or trait.
The player then now has incentive to level all classes, can create the job to fulfill any task they want to set out to accomplish.
This type of job has nearly limitless possibilities.
From players creating action sets to speed run low level dungeons by utilizing actions like Ninja’s Shukuchi, Red Mages Corps-Corps, etc.
Players could create action sets to farm glamour when party finder isn’t active.
Players can create action sets to challenge themselves in difficult content.
The possibilities are limitless, and the development of such a job would be next to nothing!
They only would create completely optional job quests, to give the player solo challenges, unique glamour or other interesting items!
Thank you.
FFXIV The Ultimate job
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10-29-2020, 11:16 PMDaniolautFFXIV The Ultimate job
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10-29-2020, 11:18 PMMilitaryVet123
If there is one thing I don't want to see anymore, it is limited jobs that force you to do difficult content to fully complete.
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10-29-2020, 11:28 PMDaniolaut
Onion Knight unlocks at level 1.
The unlocking quest teaches players about undersizing content so no player or alts are locked out of progression in the main story.
Onion Knight would have up to 20 actions it can set.
Setting 3 actions at level 1, and increasing at regular intervals per level.
It would set 1 trait at level 1, then gain 1 trait every 10 levels.
It could be possible to add more traits if the development team so chooses, with optional difficult quests.
It would also be beneficial to have personal traits such as “pouch of weighted stones.” So the player can solo any fights so players aren’t locked out of the main story/quests/progression. -
10-29-2020, 11:31 PMDaniolautThat’s the great thing about this proposal. The only rewards would be job specific!Quote:
Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123
No mounts no minions. No Orchestrion. Nothing to force you back into old content.
It’s only designed for creativity, customization, and fun! -
10-29-2020, 11:39 PMADVSS
This would be cool, if Freelancer(dont think onion knights could use other jobs abilities, but Freelancer(Bare) def could. could be used in the wolves den for pvp matchups or something for fun. I think we can all agree that this would be fairly, if not utterly broken, and should just be a limited job.
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10-29-2020, 11:44 PMMilitaryVet123I understand hardcore players enjoyed doing Savage on Blue Mage, but you're also leaving many casual players in the dust. If Onion Knight requires Savage to fully enjoy that would be a travesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniolaut
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10-30-2020, 01:38 AMMPK
Noooooooooooooooooo
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10-30-2020, 02:09 AMMagicAura
I'm sorry to say that don't like this idea. You want a limited job where you'll mishmash actions from other jobs regardless of type. What I read there is that you want an "I win" button.
On top of that, jobs like Blue Mage and even Beast Master can stand on their own regardless of their limited status. Their lore, their quests, their in-game reason for existing. What you want has no such thing and personally I hope they never do such a shoddy and rather lazy design attempt of a job.
And no, I don't need incentives to play the various jobs. I play because I have fun with them. -
10-30-2020, 02:33 AMDaniolautQuote:
Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123
Actually this is what is great about Onion Knight. It is versatile.
It can be used as little or as much as you like.
You can play it for leveling, or for mastery. It’s your choice! -
10-30-2020, 03:36 AMDaniolautHello!Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicAura
Welcome to FFXIV, welcome to the Final Fantasy series, and welcome to RPG’s!
When you say “I win” I think you might consider something such as Blue Mage being able to cast the death spell at a 100% success rate. This has never been the case in a Final Fantasy game. So sorry this will not be happening.
In regards to FFXIV, FFXIV is not a hard game. FFXIV relies on memory and memory only. FFXIV employs what is called “scripted” battles for their difficult content known as “savage” and “ultimate” fights. This means the player must know a fight to clear it. There are many 1 shot mechanics.
Onion Knight is a traditional Final Fantasy Job. It’s actually very well known and has traits in the series of much what I proposed!
Onion Knights are not known to be very powerful. What they do excel at is customization! They can use every weapon, and every action from other jobs. (Differing respective to its specific Final Fantasy.)
In the world of RPG’s players can normally customize their characters, stats, and equipment. FFXIV lacks this aspect, after deleting their systems known as “Point Allotments” and “cross class actions”
As for “incentive.” You misunderstand the use of the word. A want, or desire is not incentive. Incentive is motivation. FFXIV has homogenized each job since their conception in version 1.0 (and their re-conception in version 2.0.) The word homogenization means they are all mostly similar, especially the tanks and healers jobs.
All the jobs only deal damage. In a good RPG, especially Final Fantasy, stats, jobs, equipment and currencies have value. The player has to think and consider game factors to make choices to take on the most difficult challenges. FFXIV only employs item level. Onion Knight would introduce new challenges that require more than just item level, similar to Blue Mage.
So I strongly disagree with your assessment that the job is a easy press and win button. Going further, it would have the most character of any job as it would require thought and creativity. Not just “slap on bigger number gear” like the other homogenized jobs!
Happy gaming new comer! -
10-30-2020, 04:47 AMVeis_AlveareIf you want to fully enjoy the game you should learn how to play it eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123
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10-30-2020, 05:17 AMMagicAuraYou assume too much, without knowing anything about me. I will also ignore your highly patronising (or mayhap I should say patronising mixed with a healthy dose of sarcasm) way of responding, as well as your misguided attempts to teach me basic English.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniolaut
I have seen your other posts and to me it seems that you want FFXIV to be a different game, one that would suit your tastes and wants. You present your opinions as facts, again and again, often disparaging the game in its current form. Again and again you complain and you disparage. I never bothered replying to complaints because that's a waste of energy. Given that this post wasn't a complaint, I gave you my opinion on what you propose.
There is a reason why we don't have one massive job doing everything possible. It's called balance and with what you propose, after a while you'll command all possible actions, you'll be able to mix and match, put together the winning combo, and presto, an "I win button". No I am not saying you want to press a button and do the job, I'm using it in a metaphorical way.
I get it, you aren't happy with the jobs, you think they are boring, you probably want to show the designers how it's done. I also know you'd love for this game to be something else. That's fair enough, it's your opinion and you are free to have it. I will remind you however, that your opinions are not facts.
Some of us are enjoying the game as it is. The jobs as they are. Personally I accept the decisions the designers of the game make and adapt. Yes there is homogenisation but that is something one either accepts and adapts or rejects and moves on. You love to be in the middle and... complain. Good for you, you do you.
I won't bother with further discourse with you, as I prefer to speak to people who don't look down on me. When you grow up and learn to discuss as an adult, I may reconsider this decision. Until then, you do you. -
10-30-2020, 06:08 AMReiMakoto"Onion Knights are not know to be very powerful"Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniolaut
Gonna stop you right there, in ff3, their debut game (and the only mainline game where they are a job) they literally have max in every stat at level 99, can equip literally any weapon and armour, and learn black and white magic.
In FFT, the other game where OK was actually a proper job, it is the most powerful job if you master every other job.
Not known to be very powerful is objectevely not true. -
10-30-2020, 11:59 AMFile2ishJust to play devil's advocate;Quote:
Originally Posted by ReiMakoto
Onion Knight is objectively not a very powerful job for the majority of both listed games. In FF3 they are objectively not powerful until you reach level 90+ with the job if I recall. And, as you stated, in FFT:WotL (OK wasn't in the original PSX game if I recall) it is the most powerful job if you get all the other jobs to mastery.
Otherwise, it is objectively the weakest job in both games unless you work hard to make it the best. And even then, because of these prerequisites to have the job be good in either game; the job is essentially useless unless you do an ungodly amount of grinding in the early game. So, for the majority of people playing either game, the job is weak and useless.
Just like the Est archetype characters in Fire Emblem, it can be fun to make the weak one into the super powerful one, but most probably see the effort as not being worth it in the long run. -
10-30-2020, 12:54 PMShougun
I like the idea of Onion Knight in so much that I think it makes a proper concept of a limited job, like.. no reason would I ever expect it to be normal and it might do something silly but it does it in it's own little corner so .. 'whatever'.
I also feel like Onion Knight has the opportunity to be a half decent social job, as you could glamour whatever you wanted onto it (any weapons or armors). I've seen a few people also suggest some systems to make building your Onion Knight a semi-thoughtful experience, which is neat.
I don't mind the "I win" button concept to be honest, so long as it exists in old content that isn't really played anymore. At the point that it is content that is annoying to get a group for, I feel I win is a nice concept- bad concept for a normal job or for 'current' content though. Of course only using I win in so much that it means something OP, if it is done in literally one button that's rather lame. It'd ideally take some gameplay too lol. Which if you simply let people slot whatever into whatever.. would probably be pretty bad and simple. If it's just literally pick some skills that don't click in anyway because there wasn't an underbelly made, probably going to be pretty bad until it's pretty OP. Like if players just stacked some of the most spammable ogcd nonsense and all the anti-tank busters.
People might reference Beastmaster or Blue or other jobs as candidates for limited but in those situations I just feel sad if someone who had dreamed to main it couldn't, like myself for blue or I see some people scared for Beastmaster. However I do think you could have fun with the idea of limited + normal as a way to express the job in multiple ways (which we could call an 'advanced job' instead of limited). Like for example in WoW hunters have a big pet collection gameplay but when they use them they're balanced into archetypes rather than something too unique and unbalance-able, in a similar vein you might say beastmaster limited has a lot of customization but when you train your pet for 'normal' content they're given a more specific loadout that SE has determined to be fair. Or perhaps Beastmaster comes with a DoL sort of Shepherd mechanic as the limited and the normal is the pets, whatever, there's a lot of ways you could do this.
For jobs that one could feasibly imagine to be normal, and or advanced job, I'm not in love with the limited idea, but for jobs that are just like ...'lol.. okey...' like Mimic or Onion Knight or some new idea like Magitek Operator it sounds fine to me.
Having hardly paid attention to Onion Knight in the series, lol, I was always under the impression it was a joke beginner job that they decided to give the meme of being mega weak until suddenly it's not. Like Onion Knight can use everything and just kind of bad.... and then *angel sounds* the turd polishes into Innocence. Not attempting to dispute anything, just add how he appeared to me as someone who waved at him while running by to use more normal jobs lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by File2ish
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10-30-2020, 02:15 PMADVSSNah thats exactly what onion knight was. It even had the best weapons and armor, but if you werent levelling to 99 it didnt matter because its stats were crap until the rediculous hidden jump those last 9 levels. It was basically and easter egg, that you didnt really need to beat the game. Similar to having the luck to get a single pink tail in FF4 for the most broken defensive armor ever to exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
This in theory wouldnt be something id have an issue with, then i remembered jump potions exist. So there goes the achievement of actually earning your onion knight at max capacity already. I still would like to see it for a special pvp mode, only because its the only way ill ever do pvp again. -
10-30-2020, 04:19 PMReiMakotoThe thing about ff3 is you had to be job level 99, not level 99 to get the stat boost, and job levels as a system were designed in such a way that you could hit job level 99 in the first town in about an hour.Quote:
Originally Posted by File2ish
Honestly i think the "late bloomer" is what onion knight is most famous for in the series, so i still disagree with it not being known to be powerful -
10-30-2020, 04:37 PMADVSSThat is really gross. Job level 99? Id rather go 2xninja 2xsageQuote:
Originally Posted by ReiMakoto
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10-30-2020, 04:44 PMReiMakotoI mean late game that works (bards and scholars were my jam in 3), but considering how early you can get onion knight, how how job levels are very low effort to get (guard 6 times attack, ding repeat) you can have a 99 stat monster before you even leave the floating continent.Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
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10-30-2020, 06:13 PMSeraphor
I posted a similar concept in the jobs forums, linked in my sig if you're curious.
Using a selection of skills from other jobs, but tailored to work together, so that it could be balanced similar to BLU. -
10-30-2020, 06:38 PMTeraTyrantShadic
I rather not have a mimic-type of class of any kind (Blue Mage is fine since it bring in monster abilities rather than a copy of other jobs moves). Since we're talking about onion knight I might as well give in my points as well. If you literally allow it to copy every single moves and traits from every job in FFXIV it'll be far more stronger than a Blue Mage(Granted it still can't one shot bosses with Level 5 death or the flat damages since they resist it) and it'll outclass every single job. At that point the idea of using Limited Job for onion knight is allowed (even though I am very much against the idea), but it is still way too broken even for a limited job.
You can't just keep using Limited Job just to justify adding it in, this is an MMO if they allow Onion Knight as a Limited Job with your ideas whose to say they won't abuse it for FATEs or any other content outside its own exclusive content. This is an MMO first and foremost, doing a single player game play in an MMO only works if its an solo instance duty like MSQ, Deep Dungeon, Eureka (Still has FATEs but is called NMs and people can easily solo with the right gear setup like a Eureka Gear set with Eureka Bonus and in later eureka with the right eureka actions), Bozja (Critical Engagements but again there is a group of people in there as well still soloable with the right Lost actions), and its own Masked Carnival. However it is still an MMO remember Blue Mage at Level 50 wasn't meant for group participation until 5.15 where it got Blue Mage Log and Achievements related to participating content as a group. Also let's not forget that Bahamut, Alexander, Trials, The final bosses of every dungeon is immune to flat damage and instant kill damage what makes you think they will allow Onion Knight in especially if they can copy every trait and every abilities. Not just that but you forgot a crucial thing, Job Gauges. Most of the jobs now have job gauges and moves locked behind it if we allow Onion Knight to say take Foul from a Black Mage it'll be spammable without any cost if we ignore job gauges. Allowing onion knight to change it's own job gauges every time? I highly doubt they have the coding to allow them to do such a thing with over 17 different job gauges for just 1 job.
Overall I think its better we leave Onion Knight out of FFXIV, it is fine if it was in a single player game since you earned the right to be god like and no one is there it suffer from your actions. While in an MMO it can be broken with the way you described it and wanted implemented. A 'I Win' button/job is the last thing we need in an MMO, no MMOs have this sort of 'I Win' button. I mean there is achievements saying you have gotten all jobs to its max current cap. Even in other MMOs when you max a class/job/spec you don't get to instantly kill a boss just so you can reap the rewards (If it was ESO or SWTOR that would be a different story because they have considered Solo instances and no you still cannot one shot a boss). Also we shouldn't rely on Limited Jobs making new jobs look at some of the post we are literally using it as a crutch to say we should have it in FFXIV because Limited Job allows it. No it doesn't, I already explained it before and it contradicts to Yoshida's/Dev Team's initial statement/reasoning for having limited jobs. Stop posting job ideas with Limited Jobs in it and just post it as a normal job work with what we have got the ways to balance a job in the game is limitless even with a job gauge system. Freedom of Creativity is only locked behind your ability to imagining it and not by some arbitrary system. If a few people can come up with a Job Gauge for Blue Mage to make it fit in as a Normal Job, why hasn't Limited Job shown that creativity. It is because it doesn't show creativity and does the very opposite of it. -
10-31-2020, 02:25 AMFile2ishManipulating the game system for job leveling is easy. Sure, in about an hour someone can grind it up to max job level, no argument there. And purely at max job level it has the best stats and everything. But again; for the vast majority of players who might play the game will not exploit that system or even know Onion Knight's stats, it is weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReiMakoto
Per numbers OK has the best stats at 99. Also, per numbers, it has the lowest stats from 1 to like 90+. For 90% of the game, assuming you aren't exploiting the job level system, OK is comparatively useless compared to the other jobs in the game. The job cannot only be gauged by it's max level stats, as you don't need to get any job to max job level or any character to max level to beat the game. OK is objectively the best at job level cap, but otherwise it is easily outclassed. And, in a normal run of the game, it is objectively the worst class.
Which makes OK known for being powerful in the end, but is weak the vast majority of the time. I'm just saying I both agree and disagree with it being powerful :P Like I said before, just to play devil's advocate. -
10-31-2020, 04:46 AMRayo
Wasn't their a similar Limited Job proposal in the "Other Battle Systems" forum section? I recall one being made their that actually had a fairly balanced idea for an Onion Knight/Freelancer/Mime Limited Job.
Edit: Found it. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...d-Job-Proposal -
10-31-2020, 05:38 AMADVSSI agree. You both are right. My experience on the game, was that i never initially knew about Onion Knight till looking up info on FAQ's beyond that i never gave it a thought, as i stated it was more of an easter egg than anything. Players just playing the game would most likely never have known that fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by File2ish
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10-31-2020, 07:42 PMVyrerus
This is actually a really cool idea. Though I feel like the job gauge thing would cause it to be unfeasible, somewhat, unless they had Onion Knight go back to the pre-job gauge times, where job related buffs were just normal buffs on the buff list.
God, imagine mixing Requiescat with dual cast and spells that are more powerful than what PLD has to offer. Imagine giving yourself Greased Lightning III, Shifu, and Huton. 40% attack speed reduction lmao. Of course, one inset limitation would be that, you'd need associated combo skills for buffs gained via combo, and any downsides that come with jobs in their current form would apply to Onion Knight.
So if we give it Mudras for Huton and the Ninjutsu action, that's 4 actions right there. 16 left. Give Hakaze and Shifu, might as well give it Kasha, that's 13 actions left. To get to Greased Lightning III, we need to be able to build Greased Lightning, so we need at a minimum, Bootshine/DK > Twin Snakes > Demo/Snap. Then probably want Form Shift to be able to maintain it. That's 4 actions right there, and if we make two of them Twin Snakes/Demolish, that's two more things to maintain at all times. We're down to 9 actions now. Say we wanted the full advantage of Ninja's Huton, the ability to maintain it without Ninjutsu uses, so we want the Armor Crush combo. We now also need Spinning Edge, Gust Slash, and Armor Crush. Boom down to 6 actions.
We're likely going to want some sort of survivability, and since we can have anything... might as well get Benediction and Hallowed Ground. 4 actions left. How about, No Mercy, Blood for Blood(I refuse to call it Lance Charge), Fight or Flight, and Inner Release? We may not have Fell Cleave, but being able to auto direct crit the next 6~7 GCDs and oughta do something.
Of course, this setup has almost no oGCDs, no AOE, and no ranged attack options outside of Ninjutsu so... it's kinda meh, but I mean, it sounds good!
Honestly, this reminds me of setting up Marauder with Cross Class skills back in ARR. It felt like you could have it all, but maintaining all the possible good buffs got to be a bit chorey, and it was more buffs than it was attacks haha.