Stats in FFXIV / Base Damage

Hi

I successfully got 409 STR last night using triple meld gloves and a triple meld demilune bhuj. Problem being there is no way to overcome such a low base stat for a weapon. I got ifrit's axe and there is no way to make a better weapon. Which is sad since BSM purpose is to make weapons and there is no way to make better weapon than the drops no matter what i do.

I know there is a cap is what make my weapon being useless since i cant add more damage and if i use the axe over the gloves to get to the cap well the base damage is too low so ill end up doing less dmg than using ifrit's axe naked.

I dont know if there is a plan to fix this or any gear made by a BSM will stay useless exept for spiritbounding ~.~

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...79c20013cc.jpg
Image of the stat

You think a normal quality axe with some skittles attached to it should best a battle axe won from the lord of inferno? Nonsense!

stack 2 more you could get better than ifrit no? :P

Aren't stat caps directly connected with the weapons damage value? So, 409 would make you far, far, far over the cap, no?

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Originally Posted by Keftenk

Aren't stat caps directly connected with the weapons damage value? So, 409 would make you far, far, far over the cap, no?

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yes .

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

yes .

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Alright...soo, make attack gloves instead? It's not like you spent much on STR gloves with how cheap STR materia is...

Or...don't complain? Iunno, you have IA...so... /shrug

1) Make sure your acc is okay.
2) Cap primary stat.
3) Cap secondary stat.
4) Attack

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

1) Make sure your acc is okay.
2) Cap primary stat.
3) Cap secondary stat.
4) Attack

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I'd change this order, and for melee classes in general:
1) Acc (hitting as hard as possible means fk all if you don't land a hit)
2) Attk
3) Primary (Str imo should always be viewed as Pri, since melee's benefit directly from STR since it also gives attk)
4) Secondary

Before you jump on that, it has some real numbers behind it, I won't say my test set is massive but. Fighting Stullenworm me and a 50 DRG friend of mine over 3 fights he consistently did ~10% more dmg from AA and ~5% more on every WS, I tossed Crits and just went w/ normal hits since crits are just an increase on normal damage anyway.

My Str > his by 15
My Pie > his by 28
My weapon bdmg > hit by 22
His attk > mine by 35

His 35 attk outshone my everything else. So yes you can make a standard weapon better than an Ifrit's because at the end of the day reaching the attk<>def cap has more impact than having a 200dmg weapon vs a 150 dmg weapon. Your Pri/Sec stats have an impact, and it's noticable but not nearly as much as the impact that attk has.
You may or may not have looked through other testing threads and seen that more often than not it's found that a level 1 weapon can keep up with(won't outshine) a level 50 weapon if you attk>pri>sec stats are all up to snuff. Not unlike the brokenish def/vit/mnd that makes running in naked not hurt nearly as much as it should.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

You think a normal quality axe with some skittles attached to it should best a battle axe won from the lord of inferno? Nonsense!

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Indeed, it has to be a High Quality one. Although I think that by the third materia even a NQ one should be getting better, though.

It dosent really matter if its a HQ one or not still there is no way to compensate for the base dmg lak of any of the weapons bsm does. and yea i'm way over the cap, only thing i'm implying is that honestly i should be able to hit harder than with ifrit axe naked at that point and it doesn't.

Same goes with knuckles or sword, there is no way to hot harder even with a +1. So in the end it is not really worth it to even try crafting any of this because even if you cap stats with that axe you cant bear the base dmg output of an ifrit weapon.

Blue Loot > White Loot.

Why would you be surprised when a craftable item doesn't match up to rare(ish) item.

P.s. We are getting high level craftables new patch, maybe you will find a weapon there suitable to your needs.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Blue Loot > White Loot.

Why would you be surprised when a craftable item doesn't match up to rare(ish) item.

P.s. We are getting high level craftables new patch, maybe you will find a weapon there suitable to your needs.

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I think the point is that 3 slotting materia is probably more time consuming/expensive than just getting an item from a dungeon or someplace. Well, it depends on the drop, and the materia used, but it's a general rule of thumb all the same.

There's really no incentive or impetus to craft when the amount of investment to craft some of these items far exceeds the payoff. Crafting is basically irrelevant at the moment. Generally speaking.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

I think the point is that 3 slotting materia is probably more time consuming/expensive than just getting an item from a dungeon or someplace. Well, it depends on the drop, and the materia used, but it's a general rule of thumb all the same.

There's really no incentive or impetus to craft when the amount of investment to craft some of these items far exceeds the payoff. Crafting is basically irrelevant at the moment. Generally speaking.

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Pretty much what im trying to say ... i would just expect it to have more impact on things since it take time and the ratio of sucess is really low

It may be more time consuming but that shouldn't instantly make it better.

I still think that dungeon loot should trump most craftable gear, it's pretty much standard in MMO's that craftable gear is for levelling up and the majority of the best in slot comes from dungeons and boss fights.

Sure there is the odd exception to the rule but I kind of prefer it that way.

I personally hate multimelding and the whole materia system could be so much better IMO, but this isn't really the place to discuss this, I will say though that nobody forced you to triple meld so don't expect it to be better than a Primal weapon.

Infact you probably new this was the case prior to getting the 3rd meld.

As I said though the last producer letter had High level crafting recipes on the list of things for 1.22, so there is a possibility that new lvl 50 weapons that are triple melded will be better than primal weapons... time will tell.

Also DMG >Stats . so unless the new craftable weapons are the same or higher in the dmg stat its unlikely meldable ones will surpass them.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

It may be more time consuming but that shouldn't instantly make it better.

I still think that dungeon loot should trump most craftable gear, it's pretty much standard in MMO's that craftable gear is for levelling up and the majority of the best in slot comes from dungeons and boss fights.

Sure there is the odd exception to the rule but I kind of prefer it that way.

I personally hate multimelding and the whole materia system could be so much better IMO, but this isn't really the place to discuss this, I will say though that nobody forced you to triple meld so don't expect it to be better than a Primal weapon.

Infact you probably new this was the case prior to getting the 3rd meld.

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The way I view it is we shouldn't make the same mistakes that all those other "Standard" MMOs make, which is to exclude crafters from endgame content. Since primals don't drop materials, but rather ready made weapons, then the only outlet crafters have to exercise relevance is through the materia/melding system (which in my opinion is a boring grind and kind of inferior to the old 3 tiered HQ system), but it's still all they have. This being the case, crafters should have content that makes them relevant, or else FFXIV loses yet another interesting feature.

At the moment, it's like, you use materia'd weapon to beat Ifrit. Use Ifrit to get Moogle drop. Use that to get Garuda. And before you know it the game is a gear-grind like any other MMO, only with laggy nonsensical combat mechanics, and you might as well be playing WoW.

To me, it was much more interesting when you worked with your linkshell or friends to pursue the best gear by trying HQ attempts. The day when crafting is repositioned as irrelevant, then it effectively removes an entire interface between players, which is bad for the game.

But as I say, that's just the way I view it. :)

I believe if they made more unique materia, those that did more than simply adding stats, it would keep a much better balance between crafted gear and boss drops

Fine, have the Ifrit's Battleaxe simply have the best base damage of any other axe, that's fine, but if you could craft an axe and slot it with materia that let you proc Slow on hit, then perhaps you'd prefer that to raw DPS. I'm all for unique and off the wall character builds

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

At the moment, it's like, you use materia'd weapon to beat Ifrit. Use Ifrit to get Moogle drop. Use that to get Garuda. And before you know it the game is a gear-grind like any other MMO, only with laggy nonsensical combat mechanics, and you might as well be playing WoW.

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Yup, thats what MMO's are and have been for over a decade now, sure you can say well lets be different, but you have to think about what current players want, what players who have quit want and what the would be future customers want.

If you centralise this game too much around crafting you are taking away the aspect that most people find enjoyable in these games which is gear progression and fancy loot.

Heres an idea, lets just drop all endgame and make all gear craftable, would crafters be happy then?

Or just make gear harder to get from endgame, which makes people use craftable gear until they get the endgame gear, this makes people leveling and starting endgame buy or craft gear making crafts useful, and the best in slot come from endgame, its a proven mechanic that has been around since before FFXI and in FFXI you never heard people saying "crafting is pointless" over and over again. The way people in here want it the game should be renamed Final Spiritbond XIV.

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Originally Posted by Keftenk

Aren't stat caps directly connected with the weapons damage value? So, 409 would make you far, far, far over the cap, no?

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Can someone elaborate on this more?

To fix this, SE needs to release some hard to get damage+ materia. Then we can say there is no point in doing Ifrit anymore. =D

they need base attack materia

i just say there should be a way to at least make it near to ifrits axe not some ridiculous axe that has 30 less base dmg. BSM is pretty much useless but ARM can make better armor than pretty much everything. If you tell me DL armors are better you can be mistaken in some extend because you can make parts that are better than the DL armors, but as BSM you cant even make a decent base weapon.

Max level blacksmith does seem pretty depressing right now in the weapons department.

I think if the gap between what you could make and what was out there wasn't so massive, it would make the option of a customizeable weapon more appealing. And damage playing such a large role in Marauder/Warrior's effectiveness.

Damage = more enmity, more healing from damage returns, enemies die faster = less healing needed, more MP conserved by mages, shorter fighters, more loot, more exp, mo problemz, etc.

Demilune Bhuj, damage 141, common craft.
Barbarian Bardiche, damage 151, uncommon craft.

I suspect a triple-melded HQ Barbarian Bardiche still may not compare damage-wise to a primal weapon since Damage appears to be a sexy, irreplaceable stat.

Now triple meld all your gear with +ATTK

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

I think the point is that 3 slotting materia is probably more time consuming/expensive than just getting an item from a dungeon or someplace. Well, it depends on the drop, and the materia used, but it's a general rule of thumb all the same.

There's really no incentive or impetus to craft when the amount of investment to craft some of these items far exceeds the payoff. Crafting is basically irrelevant at the moment. Generally speaking.

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Funny.

AF cannot beat most single-double melded armor for those wanting the best results (not even Warrior), and Ifrit/MogKing weapons require extreme amounts of luck to obtain.

I will agree on something though, which I've said before: crafting should be more community-involved. Ergo, this thread is barking up the wrong tree; I do think that Ifrit/MogKing/etc. should instead of dropping actual usable weapons, drop some something akin to the abjurations in FFXI that would require a piece of cursed gear that's only craftable by a DoH.

all the stats on weapons may be different when 2.0 comes around.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

I think the point is that 3 slotting materia is probably more time consuming/expensive than just getting an item from a dungeon or someplace. Well, it depends on the drop, and the materia used, but it's a general rule of thumb all the same.

There's really no incentive or impetus to craft when the amount of investment to craft some of these items far exceeds the payoff. Crafting is basically irrelevant at the moment. Generally speaking.

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so many levels of nope

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Funny.

AF cannot beat most single-double melded armor for those wanting the best results (not even Warrior), and Ifrit/MogKing weapons require extreme amounts of luck to obtain.

I will agree on something though, which I've said before: crafting should be more community-involved. Ergo, this thread is barking up the wrong tree; I do think that Ifrit/MogKing/etc. should instead of dropping actual usable weapons, drop some something akin to the abjurations in FFXI that would require a piece of cursed gear that's only craftable by a DoH.

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It's these very ?flaws? in equipment design that led to sooo much sidegrade gear in ffxi, 7 different body pieces depending on the occasion is a lil annoying. I'm ok w/ 2~3 but I really don't want to carry and Acc/Attk/WS/Haste/Crit/Eva/Mdef/Def/[ability] gear for one or more slots all over again. Imo this was one of the flaws in XI, and it's already present here too, getting AF just for swap ins is silly.

While 50 is the cap, the best gear should be, again just my opinion, AF which should probably be more challenging to get, then EG Drops which of course take ages to get. Perhaps triple melded crafted gear can be up there in those ranks since from what I understand, I'm no crafter, triple melding is not exactly easy to achieve. But really single melded gear outdoing AF, AF that doesn't provide substantial reasons to keep it on, these were the reason that AF/Relic was strictly swap in for most jobs in XI, it made me sad cause it looks cool, says I took the time to do this, but it's not actually worth wearing so really I just wanted to waste some time cause I was bored.

Why can't we just have crafting items drop from end game events? FFXI did it with items such as Damascus Ingot for armors like Haubergeon. Not sure why this can't be applied into FFXIV.

Instead of making one better then the other, why don't we focus on making DoW and DoH work together? Lets be honest, getting stuff for crafted gear is a real pushover, and no effort at all. Why not make it so to get certain rare gear, or perhaps really nice accessories, you need rare items that drop from end game content. This is a way you can make both work together.

It works, it worked in FFXI, it can work in here.

As for stats. You can bring up the pitch forks and torches if you like, but maximizing my potential in stats in this game feels only meh to me. Maybe it is because I am so use to WoW's stat allocation system, but the amount more damage I do with my crafted gear compared to my AF feels minimal at most. This is with STR soft capped and PIE nearly capped and a decent amount of ATK power on me. I see a difference, but it feels minimal at best, a kind of "Scrapping at the bottom of the barrel for damage." situation.

I know this was the case in FFXI, but I believe when 2.0 comes out (hopefully with a fixed stat system), it will truly show a significant difference.

I compare WoW because when you have better gear in that game than another player, it really shows, significantly, like 50-60% more DPS. While I understand people in FFXIV work with what they got, for others however, some don't feel influenced to get their stats raised. I honestly could care less if someone is doing 5%-10% more damage than me. As long as I am a viable DPS and eat my food, then I say "Ohh well". I aim for Darklight gear because there is nothing else to collect for me right now. :P

It shouldn't not influence you however, you are a better person than me for maximizing your potential, but until I see significant percentages, I will play the lazy man.