I started tanking but got distracted but now I’m getting into it again I have a few questions.
At what point should I pop a defensive cooldown? And is there a particularly order like should I save the 30% until last, is there a common rotation or all depends on how many mobs you pull?
Wall to wall pulling, is this a thing I should do in level 50 dungeons or wait until higher levels.
So far it’s going ok except the disaster hull breaker isle (bloody final sting).
Should I spam aoe until there’s only 2 enemies left then go onto single target attacks.
Do you usually pull one pack and see how you get on and that determines how you will play for the rest of the dungeon?
It is really difficult giving up control of your health and relying on others (I usually play healer)
Any other pointers would be grand I am focusing on paladin at the moment but will work through them all.
Help me be better!
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10-07-2020, 06:20 PMShanirHelp me be better!
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10-07-2020, 06:52 PMADVSS
Yes. I think you can stun final sting, but perhaps pop a cooldown if you cant. Everything else sounds like basic tank play imo. Yeah it totally sucks having your HP at the mercy of the healer, at least youll come back to healing knowing a tanks perspective. Sounds good otherwise.
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10-07-2020, 08:16 PMPepsi_PlungeFor bosses, you pop your cooldown either right before you know a tankbuster&mechanic is gonna hit you. Usually you pop your best cooldown but by learning the fights and doing them more often you may realise that a smaller one may be also enough, especially if you know that something harder comes along later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
For pulls, you gather your mobs and once you decide to stop you pop your cooldowns. Usually you will also start with your biggest one but it also depends on how many mobs you pull. If this is a small pull mit maybe 2-3 mobs and a larger pull will be coming right after you may save your 30% cooldown for that big pull later. If you pull big from the beginning start with 30% and go down that road once they run out of duration. In the beginning you can (and should) also throw in smaller CDs like arms length or Reprisal together with your bigger CDs.
If you are playing PLD and have holy ground you can and should also use it on big pulls as your first big CD, when you take the most DMG. Don't use it just as an emergency button.
The thing is more about your equipment and the equipment of the party. You can do this in most dungeons but you may not survive this if you're not equipped for the task. Same is true for the healer as they won't be able to keep up with the incoming dmg if their equipment is lacking. And also if your DDs won't do good damage the mobs will take forever to die and you may run out of CDs. It's a group thing so make sure your group is okay with the big pulls, especially if there are newbies in your teams.Quote:
Wall to wall pulling, is this a thing I should do in level 50 dungeons or wait until higher levels.
Yeah, most of the time you want to hit everything because you don't want to lose aggro.Quote:
Should I spam aoe until there’s only 2 enemies left then go onto single target attacks.
That may be a good idea to test the waters, especially if you are not sure if your team is equipped well enough (see above)Quote:
Do you usually pull one pack and see how you get on and that determines how you will play for the rest of the dungeon?
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10-07-2020, 11:05 PMShanir
Thank you for the responses
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10-07-2020, 11:49 PMAnotherPersonAs a tank you pull 2+ waves -> pop 1 defensive cooldown. If you use reprisal, you can use reprisal + arms length. Otherwise, rampart/Nebula/Sentinel/Shadow Wall are all used one at a time. This is allowing your tank mitigations to go on rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
Sheltron for PLD is a special case because you get it by auto attacking with your oath gauge. Use it before a big attack, or use it during pulls in addition to your other mitigation to block and reduce incoming damage. Damage blocked stacks up in adds by a lot.
Wall to wall pulling is a thing and is generally considered the norm. To do wall to wall pulling, it depends on if your healer is competent, if your team is competent (DPS is good), and if you are competent. It also depends on if your gear is good enough to do so too. Before lv 50, it depends on the team composition because some jobs don't have their AoE until much later. If the healer and tank is overgeared usually they can cover the issue no problem, but if the healer is lacking, may it be gear or skill, then big pulls will be a bit more difficult unless you use potions. However, wall to wall pulling helps manage your mitigations + save healer more MP and cooldowns since small pulls run the risk of running out of mitigations faster.
AoE Spam is dependent on the job if I recall correctly. Generally on 3 or more enemies you AoE Spam for all jobs. If it's just 2 enemies, you can attack one, then hit the other one with your combo to simultaneously generate aggro for two. I believe DRK gets their full AoE rotation by level 72 where they actually have a net DPS gain on 2 or more enemies to AoE due to Stalwart soul restoring MP and filling the gauge.
If the healer doesn't give any signs that they're good, you can always do a test pull to figure out how your team works. If the healer doesn't mind letting your HP drop and DPS before healing you up, that generally is a sign that you can pull more since they don't feel the need to heal when the damage is low. After all, if the team isn't dead, then everyone is fine. If the healer is spam healing on the tiniest of damage you take (big overhealing), then you should be wary for big pulls because it means they're panicking or spam healing without properly managing their MP. Although it could work out and you could do big pulls, they could also zone out and forget to lucid dream + move out of AoE. If enemies are dying really slowly, then it's a sign that people are either undergeared or underperforming and big pulls will probably be a bad idea since you'll run out of migitations and healer will run out of resources. -
10-07-2020, 11:55 PMSpartan_AouesFor max reductions as close to the end of the cast bar as u can get(depends on latency) you want the buff icon to appear before the cast bar is finished to register(depends on the attack some attack have a longer animation and can be mig later i think)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
No in fact the 30% skills usually have the highest cds in boss fight that will take more the its duration its best if used first. If the fight is shorter use it the mig the highest hitting attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
In big trash pulls the same applies, fast packs? use it lower cds so they will be up again.
I assume u mean damage rotation and yes. but it also depends on how many mobs u pull. I don't play pld so i cant give tips here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
As the tank you are the leader of the party its up 2 u. You wont be able to pull wall to wall out right, but if u try pulling 2 packs then 3 packs you will eventually learn how to do wall to walls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
Generally wall to wall is the optimum strat for dungs. They are the fastest ways to get to end boss, and earn a lot of commendations. but they take time to learn.
generally yes u want to spam aoes until there are 2-3 mobs, at this point depending on your healer's mana just start to pull the next set of packs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
This is a good idea you want to ease your group into larger packs. pull 2 then 3 etc. You want to always be pushing ur group just alittle bit harder. But never to point of a wipe that costs more time, then if you just pulled 1-2 packs less.(unless ur wall -wall pulling then even if you die, if you have killed enough mobs its more efficient then pilling 2-3 packs)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
As a rule, if you healer has mana you are good, make sure they are around 10-20% mana before you think of slowing down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
on wall to wall pulls. if your healer is not pumping(out healing the damage) but still has mana you can pop ur sprint and run out of the range of the mobs autos. make sure to stay in your healers range by running back and forth. this will give you healer time to heal you and dps time to kill the mobsQuote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
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10-08-2020, 12:23 AMAbsurdityI would not use arm's length and reprisal together with your 30% cd. Since arm's length slows the mobs attack speed the only thing you get out of it is less mitigation from your big CD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge
Pop arm's length about 3-4 seconds before your 30% runs out so by the time you have no mitigation up the enemies are slowed and then combine it with reprisal as "intermission" mitigation before popping something like rampart.
I should also add that you want to be careful with a WHM as your healer. If they actually know what they're doing then they'll start spamming holy for a while as soon as you stop pulling more mobs. This means that the enemies will be stunned for about 7 seconds and using your defensives during that means you're potentially wasting half of your 30% CDs duration since nothing is attacking you.
For warrior and gunbreaker it is a dps increase to use your aoe combo on 2+ mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
Keen Edge -> Brutal Shell -> Solid Barrel = 3 GCDs for 900 potency total, Demon Slice -> Demon Slaughter = 2 GCDs for 400 potency per enemy hit. So let's assume you do 6 GCDs with atleast 2 enemies. Your single target combo would deal 1800 potency in damage and your aoe would deal 1200 potency per enemy in the same amount of time for a total of 2400 potency in dps. It becomes a bit more complicated if we factor in cartridge spenders but generally you want to prioritise your Gnashing Fang combo for 1-3 mobs, at 4+ mobs Fated Circle will deal more dps.
I'm not too sure about paladin or dark knight but even there you can safely assume that at 3 or more enemies your aoe will deal more damage in total. This obviously changes at lower levels when you only have access to 1 aoe ability with relatively low potency. -
10-08-2020, 02:35 AMMsMisatoDepends on the level of the dungeon really. You can blow thru trash mobs on lower levels super quick, so is somewhat dependent on how fast you move through the trash. Personally, I just run with rampart and shelltron during trash pulls. IF you use sentinel it should be the first cool down to pop since iwth on a 2 minute timer. Of course you can use hallowed ground, but personally I like to save it for the oh poop moments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
Though a big word on Hallowed ground. It is animation locked. That means you need to pop it when you have enough health to absorb a hit or two. If you lack the health and you get popped you can still die because it doesn't go into effect until the animation is done.
You can and I recommend wall to wall pulling. Its super fun, it pushes you to pay attention to everything as a tank which is a good thing. However, it is dependent on your healer's ability and how well the dps in the group can well dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
As for final sting, good news, you can stun the hornets :) Most trash mobs are stunnable, susceptible to debuffs like arms length slow, kick, shield bash and so on.
Spam your aoes on 3 or more targets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
AOE rotation (not running to pull mobs) Eclipse>Prominence then the spell aoe part (which will be post level 70) Requiescant>holy circle x 4>confector and repeat. then when you drop to 2 mobs you can go to your normal target rotation which you can bounce between two mobs.
I usually ask the group if they are good with wall to wall as I see more and more new players, this is a good way to find out. Majority of times its big pulls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
If no one is responding, I will go single pulls and make a judgement call on whether or not a we can handle wall to wall. This means gauging on the dps and the healers ability.
Don't be afraid of dying. Its going to happen and its expected. Even the most perfect of runs can go south for whatever reason. Gear and food is a big thing for tanks. At end game, melds will be important as well. Definitely pop a visit to The Balance on Discord loads of good info there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
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10-08-2020, 02:57 AMSpartan_AouesAfter big pulls you done wait to kill 2-3 mobs, the dps can prob kill it on your way to the next packs. its better to just mobe on and grab more. unless u need to wait for cds or healer mana is low.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
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10-08-2020, 03:16 AMMhaericAs a DPS main, I hate this. Don't do it. Killing moving targets is a pain in the socks especially if there's still 2-3 of them since they'll likely be spread out and you're forced into single target. The only two exceptions that I would recommend to this are a) if there are only ranged dps in your party since movement doesn't impact those jobs as much although mobs spreading out still impacts AoE and b) if you know that the dps can kill the remaining mobs before they start moving to follow you I.e. waiting until the absolute last moment when only a single hit or two will kill all of the remaining mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
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10-08-2020, 05:25 AMXiaokiYeah, this is stupid and annoying. This only works if you have 2 Ranged Physical DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
For Melee DPS the mobs will be moving in and out of melee range. You could use Sprint to go faster but then you will be going faster than the mobs and your Sprint will run out before you get to the last pack of mobs and be wasted.
The problems should be self evident if you have Caster DPS. -
10-08-2020, 11:55 AMaodhan_ofinnegainIf you're pulling more than one pack of mobs, use sprint first before you've aggro'd if you have it available, as it allows you to outpace mobs so you take less autos as you move to the next pack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
Once you've got all the mobs together, pop Hallowed Ground first if two or more packs once you're about half health. If you have a WHM, that holy spams, it is worth waiting a bit as Holy is also an AoE stun so it would make Hallowed a little pointless.
When Hallowed isn't available, Sentinel > Rampart, weave in Sheltron as you can, once you're main cooldowns are on cooldown, make use of Reprisal and Arm's Length. If only a small single pack is all you can pick up, then just use light cooldowns.
Wall to wall pulls take some getting used to but 50 dungeons is where it becomes more expected, while levelling dungeons, wall to wall pulls can be less expected due to gear discrepancies, and typically levelling dungeon mobs hit harder compared to level cap dungeons, but there is plenty of opportunity to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
Yes, 3 or more targets you Total Eclipse > Prominence until 2 mobs remain, then single target down the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
Once you reach level 72, you will get a spell called Holy Circle, which you will use on two mobs or more, for five uses while under the effect of Requiescat which you acquire at level 68, which boost your spells damage and healing by 50%, if you mp is above 80%. At level 80 you will swap the fifth Holy Circle for Confiteor, a heavy hitting AoE skill, only available under Requiescat. But don't worry too much about it until you get there.
Typically this is the worst way to gauge if a group is competent. If you pull one pack, the party wastes resources that could have been better used on more mobs, so the next pack has less resources to burn down. Honestly best advice I can give is go straight for the deep-end, and pull 2-3 packs, if you wipe you've learnt what the groups limits are, and you can adjust, but single packs are the worst means to test a groups capabilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
You have to be used to wipes in this game they can happen often, and can be a good means to teach and help improve.
Rule of thumb, only the last hp matters so don't panic if healers lets you get low, healers gotta DPS too. Typically I don't look at my health bar that often, try put a bit of trust in the healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
there isn't a whole lot that hasn't already been mentioned so far for your level, especially that doesn't also extend out to the other three tanks. I would say look up single rotations for PLD, it's pretty straightforward at early levels, but it does help to understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
There is a decent bit more to PLD at 80, but nothing that you can't ask for help once you get there, if you need it, but most importantly try have fun with it, and don't let a few bad runs discourage you from keeping at it. -
10-08-2020, 12:20 PMaodhan_ofinnegainThis is a not a good means to using cooldowns, outside of maybe timing tank invulns in Savage or Ultimate. Really you should not use cooldowns that close to the boss finishing its cast, but instead try to use your cooldowns early, in advance of tankbusters, as mitigating auto attacks before tankbusters and after can help healers immensely. Also the sooner you use them, the sooner you get them back off of cooldown. Of course pre popping your cooldowns comes with learning a fight first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
This is by far the worst thing you can do as a tank in a dungeon, it's just stupid and frustrates melee and casters for no reason, and even Physical ranged too to some degree. A good tank will commit to the pull they have made, and will wait until the mobs are dead before proceeding to the next pack. You prevent doubling the sprint duration received from being out of combat or prevent the use of Peleton from physical ranged, and the increased HP / MP ticks out of combat too, all the while dps are trying to kill the mobs that keep getting yoinked out of their range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
Be a good tank don't do this in dungeons. -
10-08-2020, 12:48 PMAbsurdityThere are some cases where this is actually a good idea, namely when you know that popping your cooldown as late as possible allows you to mitigate a second mechanic.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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10-08-2020, 02:17 PMShanir
Thanks everyone! Tanked yesterday went really well even managed to get a hard dungeon I haven’t done
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10-08-2020, 08:38 PMaodhan_ofinnegainIt can happen, but it rarely happens in current content, especially with so many forced tank swaps due to debuffs, in just about every 8 man content, you're just wasting over half of your mitigation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
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10-13-2020, 12:45 AMSpartan_AouesQuote:
Originally Posted by Mhaeric
I understand your frustration, as most combo skills will be useless while on the move, especially if u are casting. As a tank i get it but pay attention to the situation. If there are 2-3 mobs that are 10% health, there is no reason to maximize combos u can just use single target or use aoe skill that are not tied to mob pos. If done right by the time you pick the next pack dps will have already killed all mobs. Also if you are moveing the mobs will have a longer/staggerd auto attack pattern, making it much easy for healers in range, also it makes buffs like regs more efficient.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoki
As a rule you want to always be pulling not 2 much to wipe not to little that healers it not challenged, make sure you push ur team to be better. -
10-13-2020, 02:22 AMMhaericNo. You're potentially wasting dps buffs by pulling like that and killing mobs on the move is a pain for melee and casters. Anyone looking for tanking advice, please ignore anything he said above. Most of it isn't good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
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10-13-2020, 02:42 AMSpartan_AouesI actually agree with alot of this especially in dungs where getting the most out of ur cds is linked to how many times you can use them. However when it comes to savage or other linear fights the number of cds you will use is static they are made in a way that you will always have cds for a tank buster even if you use them late. Also the purpose of having late cds is to increase the mig up time after a buster, giving healers more room to heal. Before a tank buster your health will be topped up or close to it, you dont need mig on that damage, but if a buster takes you to 40%(mig) health auto dealing 5%(un mig) haveing a 20-30 mig will have a greater impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
Ya i don't know why you are throwing jabs, if you don't wanna play like this you don't have too. In my 1 year of tanking I have never had anyone complain about this playstyle. I won't force you to do it but op is asking how they can improve their gameplay, and this is one way.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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10-13-2020, 02:43 AMSpartan_AouesThe reason you pull the next set when prev set is low is 1.dps will kill mobs before or during the next pack pulls 2. reduces healing requiremented letting healers reposition for next packs put regs or dps 3.faster and soother dung experienceQuote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
I usualy save sprint so more of a def cd to give a buffer from auto attack so healers can heal. But there is no need to use out of combat sprint as most dungs have walls that prevent you from moving until you clear the next pack. The only time i would use sprint other then as a def cd is during the pack pulls as i get the benefits of its def utility but also it lets me get all the mobs packed quicker, and resets the cd so it can be used more times. Also there is enough down time in-between packs that you done have to worry about health/mana ticks so there isnt a need to worry about that either.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
All dps can move and attack, they will lose any combo chains if they are not skilled at pos around mobs, but they don't need them if mobs are low health.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
cheekyQuote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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10-13-2020, 02:44 AMSpartan_Aouesthis one as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
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10-13-2020, 02:45 AMSpartan_Aouesgratz on your way to eden savageQuote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
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10-13-2020, 02:46 AMSpartan_Aouesya if you are tank swapping you done want to pop your cds late as it will be basically useless after the initial damageQuote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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10-13-2020, 02:50 AMSpartan_Aouesrelax dude its not bad advice, you dont need the damage buffs, or combos to kill mobs that are 10% health in fact if you wanted you could just used ur ranged attack and by the time the next pack is set ranged will have already killed the stragglers, if not when the next pack is set you can use aoe and cleave stragglers as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhaeric
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10-13-2020, 02:53 AMMhaeric
It's bad advice. The OP asked for help on how to be a better tank, not an annoying one.
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10-13-2020, 04:32 AMAnotherPersonIf you pull more after committing to a pull and getting it low, proceed to pull the next wave while the current wave is still alive, then the healer and the team is not regenerating HP/MP out of combat, causing them to only heal up at the rate at which their tenacity/piety stats give them during combat. This is more often much lower for healers and caster DPS for MP and much lower for everyone for healing HP compared to out of combat regeneration. For casters, it can interrupt their cast when enemies are pulled too far out of their attack range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
The healing requirements are only reduced when you pull large packs and kill them all before pulling more because tank mitigations will always be up during the pull, mitigations will have time to come off cooldown while moving to the next big pull, DPS will get to use their burst skills and AoE everything at once so everything dies faster (which means tanks get hit less times), and healer HP/MP will have time to regenerate while their abilities come off cooldown during the run to the next big pull. -
10-13-2020, 09:22 AMaodhan_ofinnegainI'll counter your 1 year of experience tanking, with my 5 years + of tanking experience, and further my experience in running many dungeons as melee, caster, ranged and healer, this is just annoying and infuriating. Nowadays, most people don't speak up in DF parties simple because of a subjective clause in the ToS that has become a sore point for many players, of risk saying something that someone will consider "generally offensive", and thus potentially having their account banned. Yes even something as simple as giving "unsolicited" advice. Then there is other alternatives such as, people just get on with, or too polite or too shy to speak up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
I can tell you for fact, this will be a detriment to their playstyle in dungeons, and there wouldn't be so many of us stating this as such if it wasn't true. I personally do not like chaining mobs, and I am heavily critical of any person that advocates for this sort of playstyle, so jabs there will be many. It's nothing personal, I just find it woefully stupid, as it carries no tangible benefit, versus having committed and controlled pulls, that allow for respite between packs.
Now typically, pulling wall to wall will ensure this doesn't actually come about, but that's up to the confidence level of the tank. Of course, there is some dungeons where this just isn't advisable, just something you pick up over time. -
10-13-2020, 02:11 PMShanir
Hey! I have another question :D So I have been wall to wall pulling but I find sometimes I lose aggro on the occasional enemy, why is it doing this? Should I stop and regain the aggro then continue or just leave it for the DPS to drag towards me? Also do enemies reset if you drag them too far?
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10-13-2020, 06:38 PMaodhan_ofinnegainYou should be fine with just using AoE combo spam, most of the time, let the dps/ healer bring it to you. If the dps/ healer isn't being co-operative, and it's only the one mob, just use Provoke or Shield Lob, to grab it back. If more that 1 mob you may have to go to the mobs, but experience will teach when it's worth going out of your way, and when it's not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
Yes certain dungeon packs will eventually reset if you pull them too far, but it's not that common in most dungeons. Copperbell Mines, the spriggans after riding down the first elevator, reset after crossing the bridge. -
10-19-2020, 05:49 PMAbsurdityIf you consistently lose aggro on multiple mobs while doing big pulls you might have do an extra aoe before moving on. If you are losing only one mob it's most likely just a ranged dps focusing it too much and in most cases they will pull it to you so you can take it off them, if not then you might have to provoke it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
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10-28-2020, 05:31 AMSpartan_Aoueswait wtf has anyone been banned bc of this?Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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10-28-2020, 05:57 AMSpartan_Aoues5 years huh, wanna link ur logs?Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
Jokes aside ff14 is a very easy game there is no reason not to challenge yourself play optimally and get fast clears to boot.
this is alittle muchQuote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
instead of back seat gaming just let him try it out. If he likes it he can do it, if he doesn't he can stop. He doesn't need to be the best tank, just needs to improve.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
wait you consider wall to wall ok, but not chain pulling? Whats the difference? I think you need to define your termsQuote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
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10-28-2020, 06:02 AMSpartan_AouesThere are many reasons for thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Shanir
1. regens: if a healer puts a regen on you and you get in range of a mob, the regen will heal you generating agro for your healer
2.dps: if you pull a mob with only 1 aoe attack, you wont generate enough agrro while you are pulling other packs, this doesnt always happen, but if it is you can use 2-3 aoes to get the aggro
3. tanks stance -
10-28-2020, 06:07 AMSpartan_Aoues
at least ur logs are good
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10-28-2020, 10:18 AMaodhan_ofinnegainI mean I don't hide my logs or anything, if you wanna look, you know where to find them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
I am aware of playing optimally and trying to get fast clears, I do participate in some end game content.
It's as much back seat gaming as you saying he should chain pulling. Not saying to be the best tank, just pointing out, that you should to be conscious of other players, and how their jobs function, not just assume your way is correct. One of the core functions of a tank is holding mobs in place and reducing unnecessary movement, this extends to AoE situations too, not just bosses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
The difference with wall to wall versus chain pulling is, with wall to wall, you pull each pack until you reach the wall (point you can no longer advance/ last pack in the corridor) then everyone unloads their AoE in a big burst and get the most out of their skills. As long as the group is good, the mobs melt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
The worst method, chain pulling, pulling a new pack while there is still mobs from the previous pack still alive, everyone blows all their skills on the first set, nobody gets any respite, no HP/MP ticks, missing targets pulled out of AoE range/ casting range, and then have nothing to use on the fresh mobs that just got picked up.
Wall to wall is optimal, chain pulling is not, it serves only to be an annoyance to other party members. -
10-31-2020, 11:42 AMSpartan_AouesYa, shamefully they are better than mine. How do you get in the 90th percentile and still not know you can chain to pull in dungs. Maybe all these years of experience have made you forget what it was like to be new.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
I guess that is one way of interpreting it, although when you sayQuote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
I don't think that is a constructive critiqueQuote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
Notice how when I gave advice there was no judgment of condemnation, I didn't call op stupid or say he was a bad tank if he did so. Almost like I just wanted to give advice that he can take or leave if he wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
When I re-read my comment it reads like "This guy doesn't have to play optimally he can do this even if it's bad". What I mean when I wrote that comment was "Let him experiment when he tries this technique he will find it is better than just pulling 1 pack at a time"Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
The most "conscious" thing a tank can do is respect other players' time, and improve himself as a tank if he finds that this playstyle doesn't work then he doesn't have to but when it works, there is no reason not to use it.
I don't assume, this advice is based on my experience, neither did I say my way is correct I said he should experiment. -
10-31-2020, 11:43 AMSpartan_AouesQuote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
Why wouldn't they get hp/mp ticks?Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
Why wouldn't their skill be off cd?
If you have 10 mobs in a wall-wall and can only tank 9 or its a wipe, do you tank 9 then wait for all CDs, health, and mana, before you pull the last pack?
If you cleave a 9 pack to 2-3 mobs with 10% health, does your IQ drop 10 points if you pull the last pack with 3 mobs, mind you I didn't say always do this, I said to watch healers mana. So explain to me again how optimal waiting for full mana and health for 1 pack is. -
10-31-2020, 12:15 PMaodhan_ofinnegainWell, okay then. Maybe you're completely deluded so you result to personal attacks because you hate the fact people are telling you, your way is actually s**t.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan_Aoues
Yes, you claiming I'm backseat gaming is hypocritical, as it is the exact same as you telling OP to try it your way, they're both backseat gaming. However you want to spin it, it is still backseat gaming.
As for you not thinking my description as not critique, I have explained many time why your method is awful. If you can't even take any points raised on board for consideration, you're beyond being able to speak to any further on this topic.
Maybe when you actually find yourself on the receiving end you might actual open up to the idea that maybe, running off to a new pack, while still got almost dead mobs from a previous pack is annoying for everyone else involved.
Also, please do not add hypothetical situations, that attempts to stack the argument in your favour, that will never actually come about in game. -
11-02-2020, 12:20 PMSpartan_Aouesaww shit here we go again. But ur right, ur a poop poop head.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
I think one of the only things we agree that this convo has long since broken down, look dude if you think its annoying to chain pull and tanks that do that are stupid then, I can't change ur mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
Why don't we take this out of the realm of theory and take it to the actual game. Lets get Op's item lvl and dung of his chooses and we can test it out our selves. If you can somehow pull faster numbers by waiting in-between pulls then I can not doing that I would gladly say it is better then chain pulling.Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
The rules are simple, we wanna test if it is indeed more efficent to chain pull, or not.
First for this to be an efficient test we have to have a low enough ilvl that wall to wall is out of the option, if we can wall to wall we dont need to chain pull.
Second we need to have the same stats and class, we can go with the palidin since op is currently lvling one.
Lastly we must use party finder and run the same dung maybe 5 times taking the best of the five with the strat of our chooseing
record your 5 runs and the forums will judge who is good or not.
If op isnt reading this, It doesn't have to be op, if we can get an item lvl low enough, or a dung hard enough that wall to wall is impossible from anyone that would work just as well.