The old HM Primals are STILL required for MSQ????

I was hoping that with the ARR overhaul and the addition of the mandatory Crystal Tower questline, they would've removed that silly, unneeded wall of Titan, Ifrit and Garuda HMs that hits you every time you're trying to get through the MSQ.

https://i.imgur.com/IcfMy5d.png

Alas, no, and I think that was a bad decision on their part. Even with flying it's still unnecessary running around and queuing up if you don't have friends to unsync it with, which was something I thought they were cutting away with this patch to make the progress between ARR and HW more streamlined. Now, instead of only one group content blockade we have two, since CT is now required as well.

There is no reason to force people to do those old Primal fights, even that forced Titan HM fight that suddenly comes up later could be removed and it would make the MSQ towards HW so much better.

Dont see how with the weapons you get. Also kind of gives you a taste of more difficult content

Yeah, why force people to do old fights? Just cut out all dungeons and trials because they're just in the way of the story. /sarcasm

Why is your first thought to unsync it anyway? I get those in roulettes all the time and easily clear them with minimal issues. Just queue for them like a normal person.

This is one of the biggest problems with the unsync system.. everyone who finds out about it wants to use it to skip fights or they get told to do it unsynced by a bad mentor or another players..

I think the unsync system should be redone and made so you can't use it until you've cleared the fight synced first.. this would eliminate the issue of players not knowing the mechincs of a fight when they get thrown into it by mentor roulette, it would teach new players better for future raids because let's be honest the raids are mostly recycled mechics..

Unsync should only be for farming drops, mounts an minions.. it shouldn't be there to skip story or fights..

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

This is one of the biggest problems with the unsync system.. everyone who finds out about it wants to use it to skip fights or they get told to do it unsynced by a bad mentor or another players..

I think the unsync system should be redone and made so you can't use it until you've cleared the fight synced first.. this would eliminate the issue of players not knowing the mechincs of a fight when they get thrown into it by mentor roulette, it would teach new players better for future raids because let's be honest the raids are mostly recycled mechics..

Unsync should only be for farming drops, mounts an minions.. it shouldn't be there to skip story or fights..

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Completely agree.

Because the NPC who starts these quests would be gone after 2.55. If you don't do them before finishing 2.55, you wouldn't be able to start the quest

Let's put is this way: Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan Hard modes still being mandatory for story completion is a way of getting those full party trials becoming in line/consistent with the other 8-man Hard modes from patches 2.1 to 2.4.

On another note, Qarn (normal) is no longer mandatory to complete the 2.1-2.55 story quests. The quest the dungeon related to was from a quest called "Rock Solid Protection" in patch 2.1, which has since been removed in patch 5.3 via the ARR story rework.

I'm surprised they didn't go the other direction and simply make it MSQ instead of fiddling with it being optional up until you get blocked out by non-completion. It's kind of weird picking up two different plot threads at once with Minfilia in quite different moods (unless they've fixed that oddity).

I guess it means you can be queuing for the trials while progressing MSQ alongside it, but still.

Are those fights really so difficult that it's a problem? Garuda doesn't even get to do half of her mechanics most of the time anymore.

Not that difficult at all, not to mention they regularly come up in Trials Roulette so OP's complaints are quite exaggerated.

Hard mode is a misnomer and a relic from the 3 4man trials.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Are those fights really so difficult that it's a problem? Garuda doesn't even get to do half of her mechanics most of the time anymore.

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No, they aren't all that hard.

I think the problem is not so much the trials as such, but that you near the end of the storyline and then ... *POOF* you find out that before you can progress further you have to do three trials that doesn't really have anything to do with the story at that point.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I'm surprised they didn't go the other direction and simply make it MSQ instead of fiddling with it being optional up until you get blocked out by non-completion. It's kind of weird picking up two different plot threads at once with Minfilia in quite different moods (unless they've fixed that oddity).

I guess it means you can be queuing for the trials while progressing MSQ alongside it, but still.

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I'm surprised they didn't make them MSQ as well. I've had to talk new players through finding and unlocking these trials several times as many don't bother with optional quests. Or they'll start the questline but not finish it (say, stopping after unlocking Ifrit Hard but never actually running it since the quest ends with the unlock) and be lost on where to continue it. Making them part of the MSQ, or just making that questline a branching path of the MSQ to avoid needing any rewrites would make the progression a lot less confusing for new players.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

No, they aren't all that hard.

I think the problem is not so much the trials as such, but that you near the end of the storyline and then ... *POOF* you find out that before you can progress further you have to do three trials that doesn't really have anything to do with the story at that point.

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This is exactly what I meant. Not that they're hard or that all old dungeons etc should be taken away "because story" like someone seemed to exaggerate my venting as, but that it's an unnecessary wall that suddenly hits you out of nowhere, and has nothing to do with the story at that point in MSQ.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

No, they aren't all that hard.

I think the problem is not so much the trials as such, but that you near the end of the storyline and then ... *POOF* you find out that before you can progress further you have to do three trials that doesn't really have anything to do with the story at that point.

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The fact that they're required for the first phase of the ARR relic weapon also has a bit to do with their placement.

Maybe they need an extra level of quest marker - MSQ icon in silver instead of gold, or something.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

The fact that they're required for the first phase of the ARR relic weapon also has a bit to do with their placement.

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Possibly. I suspect most new players won't bother doing the ARR Relic weapons nowadays, and those who do care about those weapons will often have done the HM trials before embarking on the relic weapon quests - thus needing to do the trials twice.

I am almost inclined to suggest that the first part of the ARR relic weapons quest be integrated in the MSQ, and the HM versions of Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda with it.
That would solve many problems, but would also add a bunch of extra grinding to the MSQ which might not be appreciated by everyone. Not that the first part of the relic weapon quest is all that grindy, but it is still a bunch of extra stuff to do.

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Originally Posted by tracytigress

This is exactly what I meant. Not that they're hard or that all old dungeons etc should be taken away "because story" like someone seemed to exaggerate my venting as, but that it's an unnecessary wall that suddenly hits you out of nowhere, and has nothing to do with the story at that point in MSQ.

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The reason is because Thancred, Y'shtola, and Papalymo/Yda give you the quests, and they can't remain in the waking sands indefinitely like Urianger can.

They could of course give the quests to someone else to give out, buuuut I'm okay with them staying in. They are good for new players to see how trials will work from then on. Being dropped into King Mog as their first 8man could be overwhelming, but to replay 3 familiar fights but with harder mechanics and more players is a good way to ease into hard trials.

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Originally Posted by tracytigress

This is exactly what I meant. Not that they're hard or that all old dungeons etc should be taken away "because story" like someone seemed to exaggerate my venting as, but that it's an unnecessary wall that suddenly hits you out of nowhere, and has nothing to do with the story at that point in MSQ.

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The Crystal Tower has nothing to do with the main story until three expansions later, and it's now required. There's even a new cutscene to draw attention to it when the Scions first formally move to Revenant's Toll. Those quests take a lot longer to get through than the HM primals, even if you're skipping all of the cutscenes..

I always felt like Crystal Tower was important, long before Shadowbringers, simply because it fills in part of Cid and Nero's story - especially Nero's. It's our first introduction to the prospect that, being newly unemployed by the Empire, he might now be a neutral force or even an ally.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

The reason is because Thancred, Y'shtola, and Papalymo/Yda give you the quests, and they can't remain in the waking sands indefinitely like Urianger can.

They could of course give the quests to someone else to give out, buuuut I'm okay with them staying in. They are good for new players to see how trials will work from then on. Being dropped into King Mog as their first 8man could be overwhelming, but to replay 3 familiar fights but with harder mechanics and more players is a good way to ease into hard trials.

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In that case they should've added that MSQ wall earlier I think. At the moment it happens before Keeper of the Lake, which means people have already done Mog, Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva by the time they're forced to do the other 3.

Or they can change the quest starters to different NPCs in the Waking Sands

Main story should have never been gated behind dungeons to begin with. Still my main gripe with this game.

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Originally Posted by Zorvan

Main story should have never been gated behind dungeons to begin with. Still my main gripe with this game.

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Lmao if you wanted story without any dungeons, you could just watch the scenes on YouTube or something. Serious point though, main story and dungeons go hand in hand with Final Fantasy games, it's nothing new and being an MMO isn't going to make it an exception.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Lmao if you wanted story without any dungeons, you could just watch the scenes on YouTube or something. Serious point though, main story and dungeons go hand in hand with Final Fantasy games, it's nothing new and being an MMO isn't going to make it an exception.

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Same with trials.. youll be fighting between 3- 6 primals per expansion.. complaining over 3 of the easiest ones wont do much.. theyre so easy they only need 4 people instead of thr usual 8 people

These were quite easy. Queueing as DPS was 5 minutes at most.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

The reason is because Thancred, Y'shtola, and Papalymo/Yda give you the quests, and they can't remain in the waking sands indefinitely like Urianger can.

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It was a bit weird in this part. The NPCs that give the quests are in two places at once, and the story has already moved to a point that Uri is all alone in the walking sands. These NPCs are in the inn at this point.