Which Job should we raise first?

As a new healer, which Job should we raise first? Can we have a hierarchy?

I know that generally we should raise healers > tanks > dps. But can we break it down into hierarchy of all 17 jobs, number 1 being the first that we need to raise? Could there be benefits in raising MNK first compared to DRG, because maybe they have self heal abilities or immune abilities, etc etc ? What do you think?

1.
2.
3.
...
17.

Healer > Tank (situationally only if they're actually needed to tank something) > RDM > SMN > Everyone else

The order within those groups is based on how well they're performing not what their Job is.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Healer > Tank (situationally only if they're actually needed to tank something) > RDM > SMN > Everyone else

The order within those groups is based on how well they're performing not what their Job is.

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Thanks. Any order for the other DPS? Let’s say all 4 DPS are dead. Any priority to any job?

Raise the one that's been playing most competently.

Just RDM > SMN > all other DPS. Getting people up is priority and those are the only ones that can help with raising in the order of how proficient they are at it

I suppose you could make a complete list of each job and rank it like you wanted to... but in practice that wouldn't be very useful of a list to have since such a list assumes equal skill on the part of the players being raised. You're never going to have a group of players that are all equally skilled to the point that you are going to prioritize based on how their job ranks on paper. It's like those lists of jobs that DNC maintain for which jobs to give their dance partner to. In a perfect world, there's a definite priority assuming perfect execution on the part of other players, but in practice it's better to just give it to the person who is actually outputting the most damage even if they'd normally be at the bottom of some ranked priority list.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

> RDM > SMN.

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Can also be situational, often will opt to Raise a SMN first if they are playing more competently than the RDM. Nothing worse than Raising someone then they instantly die again, got to be worth the investment honestly.

Yup. You'd have to be pretty incompetent as a RDM or SMN, however, for me to leave you on the floor over a non-raising DPS. I've definitely been there, done that sadly.

I gotta raise my eternal bond mate first, or I'll never hear the end of it...
...besides that, though, other jobs who can raise come first, then anyone who must do something for an upcoming mechanic (or, skipping that step in the case of chill content where pressing mechanical needs are not present), then whoever's been hitting the hardest and dying the least.
Regrettably, I sometimes have to exercise my right to not revive some folks, though. Complainers, whiners, and blamers get put at the bottom of the list, even if they normally would've been at the top.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Just RDM > SMN > all other DPS

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i guess im the only one who remembers verraise is at level 64

If you have multiple dead players in content below level 64 then you have bigger problems to think about than which jobs to raise first. ;)

Joking aside, yes that only applies to content in which RDM can actually raise. From personal experience, Since Shadowbringers dropped and sub-70 content became a lot easier due to increased gear caps, I can count the number of times on one hand when I've wanted to raise someone as a RDM but didn't have it. During 4.0 not having Verraise until 64 was something that came up more often.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

If you have multiple dead players in content below level 64 then you have bigger problems to think about than which jobs to raise first. ;)

Joking aside, yes that only applies to content in which RDM can actually raise.

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What level would SMN get raise?

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

What level would SMN get raise?

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Level 12. They get it as Arcanist.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Thanks. Any order for the other DPS? Let’s say all 4 DPS are dead. Any priority to any job?

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If there isn't a RDM/SMN among them you go by which has been playing most competently. Can be difficult to guage mid-fight in a pug.

Also weakness stacks matter. A dps with Brink of Death drops significantly in rez priority.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

Raise the one that's been playing most competently.

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Read: The one that doesn't already have a death debuff ><

If two of you're dps are in the 50% damage penalty, raising the one that doesn't have one is better.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

If there isn't a RDM/SMN among them you go by which has been playing most competently. Can be difficult to guage mid-fight in a pug.

Also weakness stacks matter. A dps with Brink of Death drops significantly in rez priority.

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Really good point. Didnt think about that.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Read: The one that doesn't already have a death debuff ><

If two of you're dps are in the 50% damage penalty, raising the one that doesn't have one is better.

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True, but this is also sort of implied when prioritizing based on performance anyway.

Raise whoever has the best glam.

I think the first go to in a multi-kill situation is to just use LB3. I will also mention that you should make it a habit to raise a player as soon as they fall, whether swiftcast is up or not. This will help, though not prevent these situations from getting overly out of hand. If LB3 it isn't up, and you have to prioritize your raises, it is entirely situational.

Posters make some good points such as placing lower priority on rezzing a player who already has a weakness debuff. However, you might have to account for that particular player could be down because someone else screwed up. In which case you could potentially have your strongest DPS despite having the debuff sitting on the mat. I bring up such intangibles because you can't really factor them into your decision. In these cases, you simply raise the player 'you feel' is the optimal choice for the given situation.

By rule of thumb, you need at least one tank, and one healer up at all times to prevent wiping. Sustainability is further increased with a second tank, and a second healer, but you can forgo one of these in just about every casual encounter in the game. Keep that in mind. In tougher content where there are tank and healer specific mechanics, things can get messy real quick if one or more are down when the mechanic executes. Other than that advice, all that is left is to use your best judgement, which will get better over time.

Best of luck!

Assuming your refering to an Ex fight, i assest the current situation

Assuming we have a dead : dps, tank, healer

I would ask myself :
Is there a tank buster requiring a tank a swap soon : if yes -> Rez the tank

Is there a combo of raid burster that I feel I won't be able to heal alone or a specific mechanic requiring both healers to be alive (lb2 newest Ex) : if yes -> Rez healer

Nothing is about to threaten the safety of my group and I can safely Rez all 3 players back to back : I start with dps (even more so if it's a SMN / RDM)

Multiple dps are dead : I Rez the best one

A dps keeps dying and him being dead increase the odd of success of my party : wops.. I think I removed my Rez from my bar by accident

So... In short, if there's no need for a tank/heal I simply go for a dps.
If to many people are dead then I Rez people who can Rez so we raise faster.

Regarding lb3 : if a mechanic requires 8 players NOW and I can't rez 2-3 in Time, i hit the button. If 3 dps are dead and I'm positive we won't need the lb3 heal latter on something potentially more deadly, I lb3 heal. A lb3 melee doesn't do enough to compensate 3 dps with Rez sickness... Especially if you consider it will take you some time to Rez all 3 of them

Assuming everyone but me is dead, I would raise:
- At least one tank so I don't tank myself and solo heal for a bit
- I would either raise the co-healer or a RDM to help raising the rest if no LB3 in sight
- Continue with the other tank and SMN
- The rest

Something else to consider is who's performing to what capacity on your team. Sure, SMN can help you raise allies, but if that SMN has been dying constantly throughout the encounter, then perhaps it's better to raise a more competent DPS and just handle the raising yourself. Post 64, RDM's Verraise is fairly unlimited in terms of doublecasting, so even if your RDM is incompetent, they should hopefully be able to at least raise a couple allies if the situation is dire.

I really disagree with the whole healers > tanks > dps idea. Basically the only time I stick to that (and even then quite loosely) is when I'm very new to a fight and unsure of my ability to keep myself/the party alive on my own. Every healer has the ability to solo heal everything that isn't Ultimate and that goes double for non-Savage stuff.

I tend to prioritize the strongest dps (not by job, I just keep an eye on the threat throughout and if more than one person is dead I'll stick to raising the one who was the highest first, it's pretty easy when I'm already looking at that for AST cards) with the exception of needing a certain person up for a certain mechanic.

Like oh, is there a dual tankbuster like in e1/e2? Well then if that might be coming up I'll raise a tank first. Is there a healer specific mechanic like in the Chaos fight that might confuse a tank or dps if they get it? I might raise my cohealer just to avoid that targeting someone else.

In general it pays off more to raise dps first, you're getting more damage out of your MP that way. Plus if a tank or healer actually manages to die with all the mitigation and restoration they have access to chances are they aren't exactly going to be performing amazingly for their role. Everyone has first times of course but that often isn't the case.

If you're unsure of your ability to carry raise a healer first if you really think you need to but you'd be surprised how little actual damage comes out in most casual content. It's literally the difference between (as a WHM) being able to heal with just lillies and oGCDs and having to occasionally toss a Medica 2 out or maybe Regen a tank.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

I really disagree with the whole healers > tanks > dps idea. Basically the only time I stick to that (and even then quite loosely) is when I'm very new to a fight and unsure of my ability to keep myself/the party alive on my own. Every healer has the ability to solo heal everything that isn't Ultimate and that goes double for non-Savage stuff.

I tend to prioritize the strongest dps (not by job, I just keep an eye on the threat throughout and if more than one person is dead I'll stick to raising the one who was the highest first, it's pretty easy when I'm already looking at that for AST cards) with the exception of needing a certain person up for a certain mechanic.

Like oh, is there a dual tankbuster like in e1/e2? Well then if that might be coming up I'll raise a tank first. Is there a healer specific mechanic like in the Chaos fight that might confuse a tank or dps if they get it? I might raise my cohealer just to avoid that targeting someone else.

In general it pays off more to raise dps first, you're getting more damage out of your MP that way. Plus if a tank or healer actually manages to die with all the mitigation and restoration they have access to chances are they aren't exactly going to be performing amazingly for their role. Everyone has first times of course but that often isn't the case.

If you're unsure of your ability to carry raise a healer first if you really think you need to but you'd be surprised how little actual damage comes out in most casual content. It's literally the difference between (as a WHM) being able to heal with just lillies and oGCDs and having to occasionally toss a Medica 2 out or maybe Regen a tank.

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I'm not sure that this argument really tracks. Content is easy enough to solo heal, but there are more than 1 person on the floor and we need to discuss rez order? Sure, it's likely more so due to people making mistakes than a complete failure by the healers. Rezzing the healer not only allows you to mitigate _some_ of the mistakes that people are obviously making, but also halves the amount of rezzing that needs to be done by you. From there, if you're able to solo heal, then you can spend 2,500 rezzing the other healer and the other healer can rez the DPS that are on the floor. THAT would be a better use of personal MP and ultimately the better long term play.

I'm sure that there's specific instances where what you're doing is right, but I don't think that you can argue that rezzing DPS first in a situation where there are healers, tanks, and DPS dead in a fight is a good general rule.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

I'm not sure that this argument really tracks. Content is easy enough to solo heal, but there are more than 1 person on the floor and we need to discuss rez order? Sure, it's likely more so due to people making mistakes than a complete failure by the healers. Rezzing the healer not only allows you to mitigate _some_ of the mistakes that people are obviously making, but also halves the amount of rezzing that needs to be done by you. From there, if you're able to solo heal, then you can spend 2,500 rezzing the other healer and the other healer can rez the DPS that are on the floor. THAT would be a better use of personal MP and ultimately the better long term play.

I'm sure that there's specific instances where what you're doing is right, but I don't think that you can argue that rezzing DPS first in a situation where there are healers, tanks, and DPS dead in a fight is a good general rule.

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Expecting DF healers to be able to comprehend the idea that they need to rez someone else (while simultaneously not dying again) is a big ask based on what I've seen, especially if we narrow the scope to DF healers who manage to die in casual content.

Living dps should be contributing a ton more damage than healers or tanks, you will get a faster kill if you prioritize raising dps first. As I said this is contingent on your confidence in your ability to reliably solo heal whatever content this is, if you aren't sure by all means dont risk it. If you are then a dead DF healer should be the lowest on your priority list.

Note that you can actually sort your party list in the game's options such that certain jobs appear before other jobs. See below. My party list is sorted by:

Healers
Tanks
RDM
SMN
With the rest of the DPS jobs sorted by their theoretical DPS and utility.

My rez macro then executes /psort and casts Raise first on my selected target, and then moves down the party list until it finds a party member that can be raised. Since the first attempt is on my selected target I can manually prioritize another player if necessary. Eg; RDM is below level 64 so I manually select the SMN.

Without Swiftcast, Raise takes an eternity to cast. If the DPS are down then most likely mistakes have been made, and more mistakes will probably be made during the glacial pace at which Raise casts.

Here is my raise macro:

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/merror off
/psort
/macrolock
/ac "Raise" <t>
/ac "Raise" <2>
/ac "Raise" <3>
/ac "Raise" <4>
/ac "Raise" <5>
/ac "Raise" <6>
/ac "Raise" <7>
/ac "Raise" <8>
/p Raise <t> <wait.1>
/micon "Raise"

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The party sort option is located in Character Options -> UI Settings -> from there, choose "Party List" near the top of the options window. Now at the bottom of that window click Role Sort Settings.

/psort does what it sounds like, it sorts your party list according to the aforementioned setting.

/macrolock prevents other macros from executing until this one finishes. Thus no other macro can cancel or interrupt the raise macro.

Combined with macrolock, the wait of 1 second prevents spamming your party if you quickly tap the raise two or three times in a row.

/micon of course just sets the icon of the macro.

edit:

/merror off prevents the macro from spamming you with unnecessary error messages.

and also, adding a quick line to /party chat informs your cohealer about the raise so that they can avoid burning a Swiftcast.

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Originally Posted by Ezlin

Here is my raise macro

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This is a joke... right?

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

Expecting DF healers to be able to comprehend the idea that they need to rez someone else (while simultaneously not dying again) is a big ask based on what I've seen, especially if we narrow the scope to DF healers who manage to die in casual content.

Living dps should be contributing a ton more damage than healers or tanks, you will get a faster kill if you prioritize raising dps first. As I said this is contingent on your confidence in your ability to reliably solo heal whatever content this is, if you aren't sure by all means dont risk it. If you are then a dead DF healer should be the lowest on your priority list.

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That's certainly fair I suppose. Like I said, I just feel like a lot of these instances seem to be anecdotal (albeit frequent, I'm sure).

I agree that you're pushing for them to be "better" than just good though. It's extremely important to understand what is happening to be the most efficient with your gameplay, and raising a good DPS would be more efficient than raising a mediocre healer if, like you said, the healer is confident enough to solo heal. I think that would be a good thing for them to strive for and I understand why you're pushing that.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

This is a joke... right?

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In my line of work, we call that "Over Engineering" .....

Possibly true. I've been coding since I was a kid so I am inclined to take that kind of approach to situations. Setting this up by arranging the party list as such was a bit of work upfront but it's ultimately far more effective than manually targeting a party member.

OTOH that Raise macro isn't particularly involved or complicated.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

This is a joke... right?

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I certainly hope so. Im lazy so one macro for all healers and even that is a bit overkill in itself.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

I certainly hope so. Im lazy so one macro for all healers and even that is a bit overkill in itself.

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Obviously the raise macro is shared, or copy / pasted with the name of the rez changed where necessary (SMN rez for example). This other guy probably saw the word "macro" and got stuck on that because he heard "never use macros".

Which is entirely true for combat macros obviously. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Thanks. Any order for the other DPS? Let’s say all 4 DPS are dead. Any priority to any job?

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If there have been alot of deaths, the one that doesn't die as often

Not sure why this is a question.... but obviously....

Healer>RDM (Lv68+)>SMN>Off-tank>Other DPS.

RDMs get Verraise at 68, so you want to keep the RDMs up if possible, and SMN is the only other DPS who has a Raise, so if you have no RDM, or you're in Pre-68 content, you want to keep them up as well if both healers are already up. I have seen, many times, wipes being saved by SMNs and RDMs when both healers are down at some point during the fight.

I've also seen wipes happen that could have been saved if a RDM or a SMN woulda been raised instead of some random DPS. I have literally seen a group with 1 RDM in, and that RDM was the very last to get a Raise during Lv80 content (IIRC, it was an Eden fight) and I'm sitting there just staring at the screen going ".....why?" especially when you see healers hard-casting raise to get 2, 3 DPS back off the floor and they raise the RDM last... um..... ok? Not sure why people wanna do that.

in 4 man tanks always then resers like RDM/SMN first, second support like BRD/DNC, third NIN/MNK lastly SAM/BLM with MCH being the lowest on my priority list for very petty reasons

in 8 man clearly other healers first and tanks it varies

You know, thinking about this, with the TP changes...

SE made it so that the jobs that have raises have the hardest time getting back up to speed after death due to MP costs. The only MP using job without a Raise (BLM, obviously) has an easy way to refill MP, and every other job, while still needing to start back up their rotations, are no longer bound by TP to get started again.

I wonder if that was on purpose.

When I play healer I always raise healers first then tanks then red mages then everyone else

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Yup. You'd have to be pretty incompetent as a RDM or SMN, however, for me to leave you on the floor over a non-raising DPS. I've definitely been there, done that sadly.

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TFW you raise a RDM only for them to start dpsing instead of help raising the rest of the party and then proceed to die a few seconds later anyways

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

It takes several GCD before a RDM has enough mp to be able to raise, FYI.

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Well yeah, it's not like I expected them to pop Thin Air or anything, but one can normally spot the difference between a player that's at least trying to staying alive ....and one that's going YOLO

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Originally Posted by Allegor

TFW you raise a RDM only for them to start dpsing instead of help raising the rest of the party and then proceed to die a few seconds later anyways

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It takes several GCD before a RDM has enough mp to be able to raise, FYI.