New Races

When they announced the new races they said they would add more hair and headgear support down the road. It's been a year now, do you expect we will see something in the lasts 5.x patches or it would be in 6.0?

Since we're in 5.3 now, they'll probably add both the missing sexes and the hairstyle options with 6.0 (hopefully NOT locked behind the expansion, but just part of the patch)

Hopefully they'll add more customization to the existing races and won't cave and waste resources on useless things such as male Viera.

I'm not expecting male viera/female hrothgar. I could be wrong but it feels like the dev team can barely handle the races they have now, adding two more player character models with the same issues viera/hrothgar have just doesn't seem like it's in the cards for their current budget.

I'd like to see them added on principle. I would have much rather had both options for Viera OR Hrothgar instead of one gender for reach race. I wouldn't even care which of the two it was. I don't like gender locked races or classes as a concept, I was surprised they repeated this mistake after they went through the trouble to add male Miqo'te and female highlanders/roegadyn when 1.0 didn't have them.

I get why they did it, they wanted to add a beast race while also appeasing fan demands for viera, but instead of making both sides happy I feel they made another mess that they SHOULD have learned from already.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I'm not expecting male viera/female hrothgar. I could be wrong but it feels like the dev team can barely handle the races they have now, adding two more player character models with the same issues viera/hrothgar have just doesn't seem like it's in the cards for their current budget.

I'd like to see them added on principle. I would have much rather had both options for Viera OR Hrothgar instead of one gender for reach race. I wouldn't even care which of the two it was. I don't like gender locked races or classes as a concept, I was surprised they repeated this mistake after they went through the trouble to add male Miqo'te and female highlanders/roegadyn when 1.0 didn't have them.

I get why they did it, they wanted to add a beast race while also appeasing fan demands for viera, but instead of making both sides happy I feel they made another mess that they SHOULD have learned from already.

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It seems like there's a bigger fan outcry for Viera.

They should have finished the Viera, let them use different hairstyles and hats and given them male and female options and not bothered with Hrothgar.

Then next expansion give us Hrothgar with optimized customization, separated hair and face options and a female.

I love Hrothgar, I want them in the game but I would have accepted waiting longer for something more complete. My biggest worry with the Hrothgar is SE seeing their lack of popularity and putting it down to "beast races aren't liked" instead of "people don't like needing fantasias to change hairstyles and want to be able to use the things they bought or earned in game"

in both races Hrothgar should have priority on updates tho since the hair is tied to the head, so they have to use a fantasia.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Hopefully they'll add more customization to the existing races and won't cave and waste resources on useless things such as male Viera.

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AFAIK the customization options are pretty limited because of spaghetti reasons. Like, the game code can only support a certain amount of customizations per character. So for example the Hrothgar gain fur pattern and color compared to Miqo'te, but lose hair options. As much as I'd like to spend even more time in the character creator, I think we're unlikely to get any additions on that front.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

It seems like there's a bigger fan outcry for Viera.

They should have finished the Viera, let them use different hairstyles and hats and given them male and female options and not bothered with Hrothgar.

Then next expansion give us Hrothgar with optimized customization, separated hair and face options and a female.

I love Hrothgar, I want them in the game but I would have accepted waiting longer for something more complete. My biggest worry with the Hrothgar is SE seeing their lack of popularity and putting it down to "beast races aren't liked" instead of "people don't like needing fantasias to change hairstyles and want to be able to use the things they bought or earned in game"

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I don't think Hrothgar was made to be parity of popularity to the other races. It was made to offer something the game didn't really offer.

If you've got 8 flavors of chocolate because it's popular that's nice but there is a unique value in offering NOT chocolate even if it'll be inherently less popular. As one option just spreads around the choices, and sure might add some nice phantasia money, but the other, new flavor, can actually fill a void not even utilized before.

If they sincerely can only add one race, I'm glad they did it this way.

Of course having it all would be nice, not going to say no to that lol, but if their system or budget desire is "we're only going to do this once" then I feel this was the best.

I get you were saying do each one properly and fully in order, but the fact they didn't makes me think they wont or can't without some extreme rebuilding of the core. Like issue with the character creator and Hrothgar's hair or Au Ra horns or some races getting ear sliders while others get muscle sliders, etc.

Alternatively, if it's not a core coding issue which I believe it is more likely, it could also be pretty ingenious if not a bit diabolical, lol, plan to secure a hook with the next expansion. Don't really need to require a purchase either but it'll garner attention assuredly. Since like I said I don't think hrothgar are here for the reason to be most popular they're here to be a new flavor, so separating out the races as a pure viera release and hrothgar would probably not be as financially assured / noise generating as splitting them and making something hot be part of both releases and also makes them look good (due to feedback we hear you *whispers under breath, this was our plan all along muahahahahaha*).

Of course a character creator update would be nice but it seems they're hyper hesitant on that, perhaps at the next dalamud or something xD. And again of course having it all, and all of it smoothly, would be nice lol, just saying if they were going to add two genders to the game via one race and 'that was that' then I prefer this route as it offers a fan demand but also an element that wasn't really present in game.

Please stop with new races as this game don’t need it
WoW keep bring in new races because their devs are incompetent in creating meaningful contents to make people remain subsribed

Don't be selfish adding new headgear requires a lot of work and given the current world's situation you shouldn't be asking for much

Whats funny is Yoshi said he wouldn't add more races due to resources and time. Then they add not only 1, but 2 new races and you see how that went. It was mainly due to popularity of Viera and Hrothgar was a personal choice of the team apparently. You see, they do something nice for the community even though they weren't going to do it and everyone acts self-entitled over it. Mainly for Viera as Hrothgar has very, very little support.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Mainly for Viera as Hrothgar has very, very little support.

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Hrothgar appeals to me more TBH. I'd need the female option to really consider playing one though. Even by FFXIV's standards the Viera look like supermodels, and the default outfit is uncomfortably revealing to my tastes. I don't mind other players looking like that, it's just not me.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Please stop with new races as this game don’t need it
WoW keep bring in new races because their devs are incompetent in creating meaningful contents to make people remain subsribed

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Bit hypocritical coming from someone playing a viera.

Races are content, and they can be very meaningful to people, the new races and customizations that came out recently in WoW and are scheduled for ShL are some of the most positively received things in the game. They're a part of cosmetics- and anyone who thinks cosmetics isn't something that matters to players is utterly ignorant to what gamers want.

That said- we finally did get our beast race, the hrothgar, after people asked for so long for something different from human looking races- yet the census shows basically nobody is playing it. Considering the amount of work it takes to make races, SE is going to want them to get good use and I imagine they're looking at the amount of work it will take to make female hrothgar, realizing it will be almost completely unused and aren't overly eager to allocate resources towards that. It's unfortunate- but the community tells SE a lot by our behaviour.

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Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus

Bit hypocritical coming from someone playing a viera.

Races are content, and they can be very meaningful to people, the new races and customizations that came out recently in WoW and are scheduled for ShL are some of the most positively received things in the game. They're a part of cosmetics- and anyone who thinks cosmetics isn't something that matters to players is utterly ignorant to what gamers want.

That said- we finally did get our beast race, the hrothgar, after people asked for so long for something different from human looking races- yet the census shows basically nobody is playing it. Considering the amount of work it takes to make races, SE is going to want them to get good use and I imagine they're looking at the amount of work it will take to make female hrothgar, realizing it will be almost completely unused and aren't overly eager to allocate resources towards that. It's unfortunate- but the community tells SE a lot by our behaviour.

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Again still think that's the wrong way to look at beast race. Look at beast race more like ultimate. It's good for the few that do it, they've no other content like it if you removed it. Beast race, across ALL mmos, is always one of the less popular ones compared to classic human shapes, super model shapes, etc (although WoW has a number of popular not stereotypically pretty / standard races, substantial population if you add them together by groups of pretty/standard vs not). Still I think there is a unique value in offering something new over offering a different shade of the same thing you're already offering. Does that mean to stop adding shades because it's popular? No of course not, but if you've no ultimate content then perhaps maybe you should have it. Your 8th variation of chocolate might be more popular than your red bean ice cream but that doesn't mean there is no argument to be had in the value of having some unique variety options for those who are looking for it.

I'm sure they knew Hrothgar wasn't going to be as popular as Viera, they've Roe to look at for estimate numbers- Hrothgar about match that anyways (and Roe has two genders and less fantasia / barber issues even, if you fixed that then Hrothgar might be more popular).

Ah yes.... our weekly new thread about how Viera still can't wear hats and don't have new hairstyles.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Again still think that's the wrong way to look at beast race. Look at beast race more like ultimate. It's good for the few that do it, they've no other content like it if you removed it. Beast race, across ALL mmos, is always one of the less popular ones compared to classic human shapes, super model shapes, etc (although WoW has a number of popular not stereotypically pretty / standard races, substantial population if you add them together by groups of pretty/standard vs not). Still I think there is a unique value in offering something new over offering a different shade of the same thing you're already offering. Does that mean to stop adding shades because it's popular? No of course not, but if you've no ultimate content then perhaps maybe you should have it. Your 8th variation of chocolate might be more popular than your red bean ice cream but that doesn't mean there is no argument to be had in the value of having some unique variety options for those who are looking for it.

I'm sure they knew Hrothgar wasn't going to be as popular as Viera, they've Roe to look at for estimate numbers- Hrothgar about match that anyways (and Roe has two genders and less fantasia / barber issues even, if you fixed that then Hrothgar might be more popular).

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People that do Ultimate already had savage and extreme
Just like people who like hrothgar had Roegadyn and to a smaller extent Miqo'te

The lack of updates in general is probably because of 2020. Things going on around the world slowed down work everywhere so it took 4 months from 5.25 (6 from 5.2) to get to 5.3...

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

People that do Ultimate already had savage and extreme
Just like people who like hrothgar had Roegadyn and to a smaller extent Miqo'te

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Ultimate != savage ; savage is closer to normal than it is to ultimate.

Roe != beast race ; maybe Galka would have 'sort of' counted, like mithra, but Roe and miqote obviously lost some of their more weird features from FFXI. Simply having a single point of asset does not make one a beast race, "oh I'm big" is not a beast race, neither is a human with cat ears. Lion/animal face (the feature that obviously made the race a pain to take to the barber shop, and most key to making it not a human with ears), fur, tail, now that is clearly a beast race- enter Hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Ultimate != savage ; savage is closer to normal than it is to ultimate.

Roe != beast race ; maybe Galka would have 'sort of' counted, like mithra, but Roe and miqote obviously lost some of their more weird features from FFXI. Simply having a single point of asset does not make one a beast race, "oh I'm big" is not a beast race, neither is a human with cat ears. Lion/animal face (the feature that obviously made the race a pain to take to the barber shop, and most key to making it not a human with ears), fur, tail, now that is clearly a beast race- enter Hrothgar.

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i disagree, the same people that do extremes and savage are the same ones that do ultimate. Maybe not in crystal but definitely in aether.
Roe (and to a lesser extent Miqo'te = what most current hrothgar players used to be. Backed up by data and sources of information; as well as aesthetically, but this time we will never agree upon since it's subjective. However, the data I brought up of the Roegadyn to hrothgar flight is factual, to the point where there are more male hrothgar now than there are male Roegadyn.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

It seems like there's a bigger fan outcry for Viera.

They should have finished the Viera, let them use different hairstyles and hats and given them male and female options and not bothered with Hrothgar.

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Funnily enough, the intention was the opposite, based on what Yoshi-P has said. Hrothgar was initially what they were planning to do, until the decision was made to create the split since they knew about Viera popularity and knew it was likely the last time they'll be adding new races:

"After seeing the positive reception of the Lupin characters we introduced in Stormblood, we concluded that, for the long-term health of FFXIV, it was important to implement a greater variety of character types beyond the traditionally beautiful in a future expansion" ~ siliconera's interview with Naoki Yoshida on Viera & hrothgar gender lock. So if they hadn't gone the split, it would have been Male/Female Hrothgar, no Viera ever.

As far as the topic question, between all the other things he dev have to push out during their patch cycles, the realistic date you'll see any Viera/Hrothgar additions is 6.0. They could surprise us earlier than that, but 6.0 is the realistic time.

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

Since we're in 5.3 now, they'll probably add both the missing sexes and the hairstyle options with 6.0 (hopefully NOT locked behind the expansion, but just part of the patch)

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Have they ever actually confirmed a desire to add the missing genders or was that all fandom speculation?

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Originally Posted by Enla

Have they ever actually confirmed a desire to add the missing genders or was that all fandom speculation?

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They have not from anything I've read. Only noncommittal answers keeping the possibility open but not promising anything.

I wouldn't make any assumptions or give the benefit of the doubt. Until SE officially announces something, it's all just speculation and PR talk.

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

Since we're in 5.3 now, they'll probably add both the missing sexes and the hairstyle options with 6.0 (hopefully NOT locked behind the expansion, but just part of the patch)

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That seems... super optimistic? Judging by the fact they've not added anything to the new races so far it must be a lot of work, why would they exponentially increase their workload by not only making more unique hair and faces for male Hrothgar and female Viera, fit (some?) headgear on them, but then also make entirely new faces and hair for male Viera and female Hrothgar and then fit headgear on them too? And why would they hold stuff back from the races that are already in the game for the other genders they've said they're not sure they're even doing?

I hope they do add them at some point for those that want them, but these sort of expectations are what caused the first meltdown about it on the forums.

OT: I've personally given up getting my hopes up every patch just for nothing again, and again, and again. So while I'd like to see something before 6.0, because 2+ years without any additions by that point is pretty sad, it's probably not realistic.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Have they ever actually confirmed a desire to add the missing genders or was that all fandom speculation?

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The closest I've been able to see is that while they anticipated fan backlash over the two new races only having one playable sex, they didn't realize that it would go over as badly as it did, especially in North America and Europe, so Yoshida said he'd be monitoring things and making a decision how to proceed from there. This was the same time period that he confirmed that lore was not the reason there's only one sex per race, admitting it was a resource allocation restriction that only allowed them to create them as they currently are.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Have they ever actually confirmed a desire to add the missing genders or was that all fandom speculation?

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Back when Shadowbringers was being finalized it was mentioned in a live letter or some such that they'd like to do it but were uncertain if they'd ever have the resources.

Edit: Here: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...805-09-2019%29

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As you play through Shadowbringers, you’ll learn that both male Viera and female Hrothgar exist. While you won’t meet any in person, if we developers can find a way to address the various problems which are preventing us from implementing them, then perhaps someday you’ll be able to see them for yourself. I want to be clear that this does not mean it will eventually happen, and that I cannot make any promises at this time. I hope you will understand and bear with us.

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So that's a bit more vague than I remembered, in particular with how it doesn't specify whether they'd be playable options or only NPCs. But still, the developers are not opposed to the idea of implementing the missing genders.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

It seems like there's a bigger fan outcry for Viera.

They should have finished the Viera, let them use different hairstyles and hats and given them male and female options and not bothered with Hrothgar.

Then next expansion give us Hrothgar with optimized customization, separated hair and face options and a female.

I love Hrothgar, I want them in the game but I would have accepted waiting longer for something more complete. My biggest worry with the Hrothgar is SE seeing their lack of popularity and putting it down to "beast races aren't liked" instead of "people don't like needing fantasias to change hairstyles and want to be able to use the things they bought or earned in game"

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Remember, they were pretty clear that "This might be the Last chance we get to make a new race, because it takes Alot of resources to make them"
So if they just did Viera as a whole, then they likely wouldn't have the chance to make a Beast Race like they planned to. So they really couldn't Just make Viera now and do Hrothgar next expansion, because its very likely they wouldn't be able to.

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Originally Posted by Beardo04

When they announced the new races they said they would add more hair and headgear support down the road. It's been a year now, do you expect we will see something in the lasts 5.x patches or it would be in 6.0?

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Yes, they said Viera and Hrothgar would be getting their own Unique Hairstyles down the road.
but No, they did not give us a specified time for arrival or development.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Remember, they were pretty clear that "This might be the Last chance we get to make a new race, because it takes Alot of resources to make them"
So if they just did Viera as a whole, then they likely wouldn't have the chance to make a Beast Race like they planned to. So they really couldn't Just make Viera now and do Hrothgar next expansion, because its very likely they wouldn't be able to.

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I do remember them saying that but I still think fully developed Viera and Hrothgar would be doable if spaced apart.

And if not then good lord do they need to upgrade to a new engine and reevaluate the frankly baffling way they handle fitting gear to models.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

It seems like there's a bigger fan outcry for Viera.

They should have finished the Viera, let them use different hairstyles and hats and given them male and female options and not bothered with Hrothgar.

Then next expansion give us Hrothgar with optimized customization, separated hair and face options and a female.

I love Hrothgar, I want them in the game but I would have accepted waiting longer for something more complete. My biggest worry with the Hrothgar is SE seeing their lack of popularity and putting it down to "beast races aren't liked" instead of "people don't like needing fantasias to change hairstyles and want to be able to use the things they bought or earned in game"

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Sadly, Hrothgar populations are dwindling which sucks because I love them and my alt is one. I can understand why people are fed up and not wanting to play with them due to limitations, but abandoning the race won't give SE any incentive to update or provide more options.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Sadly, Hrothgar populations are dwindling which sucks because I love them and my alt is one. I can understand why people are fed up and not wanting to play with them due to limitations, but abandoning the race won't give SE any incentive to update or provide more options.

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It's definitely sad, especially since we know they watch player metrics.

I think if they could make fully customizable Viera and Hrothgar, make Viera use all unlockable hairstyles and make Hrothgar use variants of them (ESO does this with the Argonians) and give both races their missing sexes THEN we can probably call it quits on new races. Further options could be new tribes which wouldn't require new gear sets.

They need to expand customization of Viera and Hrothgar before adding M/F versions of them, or new races. I like the idea of them adding new tribes to existing races, rather than entirely new races once they expand customization.

I hope they hurry up and let me change my hair on Hroth without paying for a Fantasia. :(

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

I hope they hurry up and let me change my hair on Hroth without paying for a Fantasia. :(

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Not suggesting it would make everyone 100% happy but I do imagine people would be more okay, an average high alleviation solution, with Hroth's hair issue if the barber allowed them to just change the whole head. Weird indeed, but I think a more friendly solution if SE can't find a way to do it any other route. So you can't change out of hrothgar without a fantasia but you could change within hrothgar all the way via the barber.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Not suggesting it would make everyone 100% happy but I do imagine people would be more okay, an average high alleviation solution, with Hroth's hair issue if the barber allowed them to just change the whole head. Weird indeed, but I think a more friendly solution if SE can't find a way to do it any other route. So you can't change out of hrothgar without a fantasia but you could change within hrothgar all the way via the barber.

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Honestly everything should be changeable at the Aesthetician with fantasia being just for race changes. Starting in Shadowlands WoW is even going to let us gender swap at the in-game barber.

For FFXIV it might be necessary for gender change to be fantasia too though since in this game gear sets don't just swap over regardless of your gender.

Anyway at the very least full recustomization within race/gender should be doable at Aesthetician for everyone.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

I hope they hurry up and let me change my hair on Hroth without paying for a Fantasia. :(

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No customization within the same race/genger should need a fantacia... Even Rome had cosmetic surgeries so Erozea should have it too.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

No customization within the same race/genger should need a fantacia... Even Rome had cosmetic surgeries so Erozea should have it too.

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And putting history aside the Aesthetician is like...a wizard ninja barber. This should be well within his capabilities.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

And putting history aside the Aesthetician is like...a wizard ninja barber. This should be well within his capabilities.

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I mean, if WoW can push for being able to even change their gender on the barber in their next expansion, then it wouldn't be bad that SE could follow up with opening all customization options on the same race without the use of fantasia at the very least.

I still don't like them adding Hrothgar. While i understand it was the teams choice to add their own race - i would have preferred them adding Lupin with Wolf/Fox being the clans. We don't need another cat race. But i'll get over it.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

I still don't like them adding Hrothgar. While i understand it was the teams choice to add their own race - i would have preferred them adding Lupin with Wolf/Fox being the clans. We don't need another cat race. But i'll get over it.

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Yeah, I would've had more respect if they added the race they pointed to as, to make present to us one of the points why they added hrothgar; "we were surprised at how well received lupin were." hrothgar feels like a decision made to grab elders scrolls/guild wars 2 players (specially GW2, a dying game which stopped getting new content).

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Originally Posted by Yencat

That seems... super optimistic? Judging by the fact they've not added anything to the new races so far it must be a lot of work, why would they exponentially increase their workload by not only making more unique hair and faces for male Hrothgar and female Viera, fit (some?) headgear on them, but then also make entirely new faces and hair for male Viera and female Hrothgar and then fit headgear on them too? And why would they hold stuff back from the races that are already in the game for the other genders they've said they're not sure they're even doing?

I hope they do add them at some point for those that want them, but these sort of expectations are what caused the first meltdown about it on the forums.

OT: I've personally given up getting my hopes up every patch just for nothing again, and again, and again. So while I'd like to see something before 6.0, because 2+ years without any additions by that point is pretty sad, it's probably not realistic.

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I know it's pretty optimistic, but that's what i want to belive, since i lost all my hopes for more hairstyles for Vieras in the remaining time of the current expansion