So I noticed in the ARR/HeavensWard content there was more a classical music inspiration and then around Stormblood and especially Shadowbringers it became more prog rock.
Can we get some more classical music?
Example:
Ravana (Hard) The hand that gives the Rose phase 1 theme was inspired directly from Dmitri Shostakovich - Waltz No. 2 and it is just an amazing piece of music.
Just a thought.
More classical music less rock please
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08-02-2020, 09:00 AMPuremallaceMore classical music less rock please
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08-02-2020, 01:18 PMItMe
Seconded.
And I would like them to take special note to add less prog/butt rock in fights that give mounts.
It's just really jarring to pull up my fishing line in Kugane, hop on a mount, and get blasted by guitars gnashing together. -
08-02-2020, 01:31 PMDrWho2010
/mountbgm off
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08-02-2020, 01:44 PMItMe
This is a thing that exists, yes.
I would also like less mounts with butt rock, and more content with other kinds of music. -
08-03-2020, 02:45 AMPuremallace
It is just a pretty cool thing to learn like when you grow up and realize Tom and Jerry were chasing each other around to Tchaikovsky. The remixes they do are very inventive.
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08-03-2020, 08:59 AMRazard
No.
I like the variety we have, thanks. And I thoroughly think you are misrepresenting what styles we do have.
Also Under the weight, Oblivion, and Sephirot say Hi from ARR and HW. -
08-03-2020, 11:04 AMJirah
I can’t stand the Sub boss music in SHB. Which is my only complaint
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08-03-2020, 11:21 PMphantomr23
The only reason there seems to be more rock this expansion is because of some of the PRIMALS remixes they've added, Shadowbringers has about as much variety as anything - just look at how much they cover between Titania, Innocence, Hades, Eden and Ultima Weapon. Plus, past expansions had Oblivion, Under the Weight, eScape, Amatsu Kaze, Fiend, the first three phases of UWU. Just listen to the full Shadowbringers OST and tell me there's too much rock.
Soken's in a rock band, it's logical we'd trend towards rock and he's frankly one of the best composers in videogames when it comes to that niche. -
08-04-2020, 01:01 AMItMeIs he?Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomr23
That explains a lot.
Do you know if any of the tracks are done by the band? -
08-04-2020, 01:15 AMRokkuEkkusu
I'll admit I like rock music more than classical, but I love both nonetheless.
Why not have both rock and classical genres? -
08-04-2020, 01:33 AMGula
Well, Soken likes it loud. He said as such during a Live Letter interview that he would have the entire OST be metal if he could.
I like the fact that the music isn't your general classic tunes because more than enough games have a plethora of it. It sets the tone, and if there's one thing the game exceeds at, it's atmosphere. Like the Grand Cosmos being having Lakeland's original theme for that Medieval feel, and Titan the rock god... having rock.
I think it also helps separate XIV from any other mmo for that matter. Or game. I remember a Zero Punctuation bit from "I am Setsuna" and how the music was all soft piano. I'm sure you have no trouble finding this game's music because it would be hard to misremember any of the Primal themes. -
08-04-2020, 01:35 AMItMeThis would be magnificent and I hope he can embrace his vision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gula
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08-04-2020, 01:50 AMPuremallaceThe problem is there is only so much you can do with the type of prog rock he is doing. My guess is they decided to go with a theme for Shadowbringers of Dark Knights rocking out but they are really starting to blend every fight to sound similar. They are experimenting for sure but I just prefer the more classical remixes myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gula
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08-04-2020, 05:37 AMphantomr23Quite a lot, actually! His band is called THE PRIMALS, and in the game they have: Garuda, Ifrit and Titan in UWU, the three phases of TEA (Locus, Brute Justice and Rise), the Shadowbringers miniboss theme and Ruby Weapon phase 1, maybe other things I'm forgetting. Most of the songs in a more traditional metal style are done by them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItMe
I really don't think there's any more rock outside of the battle theme and quest theme than there was in previous expansions. Just look at what 5.2 added, for example. Ruby Weapon phase 1 was rock, but we got swing jazz in the new dungeon, dubstep, eurobeat (?) and whatever genre Shiva's theme was in Eden, and a tribal theme from the Qitari beast tribe. From a raw numbers perspective this just isn't true - the musical variety is stronger than ever!Quote:
Originally Posted by Puremallace
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08-04-2020, 06:34 AMGulaI think it's easy to focus on the thing you disagree with. Like, I'm not sure how to vocalize this. Think like, a pessimistic viewpoint on something that isn't that big but it can seem that way. (?)Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomr23
As you just said, we've got jazz and other genres. But off the top of my head, the rock from this whole expansion comes from the main battle theme, the main theme, the mid boss music, The Twinning, and the first half of Ruby. That's off the top of my head. Versus everything else that actually isn't rock. Titania was not rock, nor Innocence, nor Hades (first half was hype thematic but second is the REAL theme), and YoRHa is all Automata. I don't have the OST list in front of me to double check, but this feels like having a biased perspective because the overall OST is so different from what OP would like.
Not to say OP is wrong for wanting it, but it really feels like Heavensward was the OST for what he was looking for but this expansion is focused more on out of this world bangers.
This guy breaks down Eden Refulgence theme, and man- there's so many layers that I think Soken is just inventing genres at this point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr2TBQNOeCg -
08-04-2020, 08:11 AMphantomr23Yeah, I actually don't even think the OP is completely wrong here - it's inarguable that ARR and to an extent Heavensward had a different aesthetic and it's not wrong to want more of that if it clicked more with you. That said, I think it was more due to Soken wanting to respect Uematsu's influence and then coming into his own from Stormblood onwards than the soundtrack becoming overrun with rock. Mostly I just love Soken's work so it is a bit of a shame to see the Shadowbringers soundtrack (it has so many motifs and unique layers to it) reduced to "mostly prog rock".Quote:
Originally Posted by Gula
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08-04-2020, 08:48 AMPuremallaceI just prefer they mix it up. Even the Ravana theme I reference starts out classical and bumps up but some of the more epic boss music is like Shinryu 2nd phase that is more Classical influence without synth guitars and techno beat vibes.Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomr23
If you told me the Innocence theme was originally on the Matrix soundtrack I could believe you lol. Things like "Tears in the rain" for Emet just sound far better to me then whatever Titanias theme is. -
08-04-2020, 03:24 PMVyrerus
I just want more music with the chorus of dudes bringing those basses and baritones. Wayward Daughter, Shadowbringers etc. That's my kinda jam.
Also, on a sidenote, I do hate the Shadowbringers mini-boss theme. It's a worse version of the real thing. Shoulda made something entirely new, still rock, but new. -
08-04-2020, 07:45 PMphantomr23Okay now I just have no idea what you're talking about. So you say you want more variety and less rock and then when it's pointed out there's not really any more rock than before you just pivot to "I want music in the specific style I like", which is undefined beyond "Ravana's theme is good". You're disparaging Insanity for sounding like a Matrix song (which is... untrue) but Ravana's themes are good because they have influence from other songs? They do mix it up - Shadowbringers has Gaelic influence, militaristic marching themes, jungle tribal influence and flamenco influence, just to brush the tip of the iceberg; and if you want to get even more specific you have Dohn Mheg's theme which is very clearly inspired by Tchaikovsky. At this point I truly don't understand what you're saying and it just seems like you're being needlessly dismissive of the current music.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puremallace
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08-04-2020, 08:48 PMGulaIf you played all the dungeon themes in one go for ShB, you would have only 2/10 rock themes. The rest being classical, tribal, sPoOkY, jazz and heroic. There is a bias here, and for that, that is where I feel the dismissal comes from. Because when looking at OP's posts, and what the game gives you, there is a distinct preference as to what OP wants that indeed is not in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomr23
Eden is all about EDM, therefore the variety of OP's choice is not there. He's not in favor of Titania's theme which is whimsical and fancy, and most of all fitting for a playful/corrupted/demented fairy king. But it's not what OP wants. Ravana was a Primal of might and war, something the current expansion has not been about at all. War against the light, yes. Not conquest. And Heavensward was strong with that thematic. -
08-05-2020, 05:21 AMPuremallace
Just saying these guys do Classical remixed better then they do EDM. They are supposed to be making the music fit the boss not the other way around. Like what is Eden Ramuhs theme? Eden Leviathan? Eden Ifrit & Garuda theme they feel the need to go prog rock again but why? It is easily forgettable and all of it just blends together.
Eden should have been called EDM.
Could you ever see John Williams doing prog rock during a Star Wars fight? Oh hey here is this Lord of the Rings soundtrack so lets throw in some EDM. All for mixing up the selection and doing different stuff but this is not an FPS shooter or dance dance revolution. -
08-05-2020, 07:23 AMphantomr23Eden's all about remixing the old Primals from the WoL's fragmented memories. EDM is an incredibly popular remix genre that is also more traditionally modern than most of the original genres, fitting the updated aesthetic of the pieces. Old Ramuh worked with his theme because it was a slow paced, tank-centric fight that was more him testing you than an actual battle - Eden Ramuh is a fast paced battle against our own idea of Ramuh, hence the remix. Traditional orchestra would not have worked for Eden (except Force Your Way, which you're conveniently ignoring) in the same way it wouldn't have worked for Alexander's steampunk aesthetic. Remember how eScape was the most notable song from Omega, because the hard rock soundtrack fit a lot better than the O12 theme for that version of Omega?Quote:
Originally Posted by Puremallace
This is... just bizarre? You do understand that John William's approach to Star Wars soundtrack was actually quite unique at the time? If we just said "all space music must be slow synth driven atmosphere music" then that would be incredibly limiting, so applying more traditional adventure music was something that made Star Wars stand out. You really think that just because this is an MMO it should have a certain sound - the game with giant robots, mech fights and technology from other worlds? Subversive soundtracks give media a unique aesthetic and the wide variety of styles covered by FFXIV is the main thing that elevates Soken above his contempories.Quote:
Could you ever see John Williams doing prog rock during a Star Wars fight? Oh hey here is this Lord of the Rings soundtrack so lets throw in some EDM. All for mixing up the selection and doing different stuff but this is not an FPS shooter or dance dance revolution.
(Also, E6's theme is not prog rock, please learn what prog rock is before you act like it's overtaking the whole soundtrack).
I was sympathetic to your point at first but now it's devolved to you complaining about an issue that doesn't exist, falsely labelling songs with completely random genres and acting like the soundtrack has somehow lost variety because it has more variety than you would like. Incredible. -
08-05-2020, 07:36 AMPuremallace
I named 4 fights in a row that all sound the same. The entire point of a lot of people was that they were mixing it up which they are clearly not. EDM is good in a club scene dancing while on ecstasy. It is just not my preferred genre and I would prefer they go back to their roots.
If we are going to throw out anything that makes sense then lets add some KPOP into the next Ultimate because why not. -
08-05-2020, 07:44 AMphantomr23You named three fights which are all different genres - fast electronic a la Tekken, Dubstep and a mix of Eurobeat and Chiptune. You also named three fights in a currently 70 song soundtrack which has the Rak'tika Greatwood, Amh Araeng, Innocence, Dohn Mheg, Akadaemia Anyder and Amaurot. What you did is the equivalent of me saying Heavensward didn't have enough variety because Alexander proves it was all rock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puremallace
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08-05-2020, 09:14 AMIscah
It makes sense for all the Eden fights to sound similar. They're a set. If you think about previous raid series they reused the same single theme for a lot of the individual fights, especially in the earlier tiers.
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08-05-2020, 09:35 AMIscah
Also, something I have only recently picked up on but realise more and more as I'm aware of it...
Most, if not all, of the game's music has the same tune.
Obviously it varies. Songs are distinct enough that you can say "that's the music from X" or "they mixed Eternal Wind into the Shadowbringers theme" but (unless I am very mistaken and hearing things) the core sequence of notes is the same; it's just a matter of what they do with them.
As far as I can tell, this isn't an FFXIV thing but an FF thing - I played through FF3 recently and it's still the same core tune. So are the orchestrion rolls we have of FFVIII and FFXV. If the Ivalice raid music is from those games, it's there too.
It's a realisation that pulls a few things together - why Shadowbringers has two themes that blur together and I can't decide if the Crystarium day theme is based on 'Shadowbringers' or 'Tomorrow and Tomorrow'. Why Ravana's theme uses "the Mor Dhona field music". Why Toto-Rak's theme reappears in the Lv50 dungeons. How I recognised Sastasha's theme in Anamnesis and my FC mate said they didn't realise and thought it was just the Shadowbringers theme remixed... which set me to recognising that music in original Sastasha and then everywhere.
Obviously at points the similarity between two songs is enough that you notice that one resembles the other. The rest of the time there's enough variety that you don't notice until you look for it and suddenly it's everywhere. -
08-05-2020, 07:25 PMphantomr23Yeah, I'm not sure if you've heard the term (it's not exactly used often) but that's called a motif, and Soken absolutely loves them. Like you mentioned it's quite challenging to pick out until you notice but FFXIV uses them to tie ideas and places together, just a few random examples:Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
The Weeping City of Mhach is near Mor Dhona, so the climax of the theme uses the Mor Dhona motif.
Sastasha's theme is the theme of many ARR dungeons and generally the theme of "The Source", so it shows up in Anamnesis since that dungeon is us finally beginning to go home.
Every single expansion uses the main motif of the expansion in its final boss theme - even ARR has "The Maker's Ruin", which is our theme, for the first Ultima phase. That song again shows up in Omega M + F to highlight the Warrior of Light.
Every dungeon theme in the entire game from Heavensward on remixes a motif of the area it's in, with one of the few exceptions being The Aetherochemical Research Facility using the Heavensward motif instead. -
08-05-2020, 07:55 PMIscahNo, I don't think you're understanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomr23
Even the "different themes" have parallel tunes. Things from other FF games use the same tune.
The "Mor Dhona theme" sounds very close to Ravana's theme. There is no thematic reason for it.
You can just about hear 'Tomorrow and Tomorrow' in the Pillars day theme.
Ramuh's theme sounds like the Vanu tribal theme in the Sea of Clouds sounds like 'Heavensward'.
You can even easily hear 'Shadowbringers' boss theme in 'Apocalypsis Noctis' from the FFXV event, or 'Eternal Wind' from FFIII, or the Mor Dhona theme... because it's still using the same tune.
The thing with your specific examples of motifs is that if A, B, C, D and E all have the same motif, you can pick out A and C and talk about how those two have the same motif and it must be because of [thematic reason] when actually everything else has it too.
All three Mhach raids use that motif. Crystal Tower uses it too... and so does Ivalice which is three whole continents away. (And yes the tower is in Mor Dhona but it's also in FFIII which, as I said, also recurringly uses that same theme everywhere.)
You're overthinking the reasoning for using the Sastasha theme - and I do specifically hear the Sastasha theme with the distinct intro. It's there because it's an underwater level and they outright reference the final battle with the Sahagin emerging from grates.
Every area has a motif but you can hear them all in each other. -
08-05-2020, 08:01 PMphantomr23Oh, I overthought your point, I'm used to people not quite understanding how motifs work. No, yeah, that's just how music is. The songs aren't that similar at all, it's just that there's only so many melodic patterns that sound good and sometimes your brain mixes things up. I've listened to the soundtracks at least thrice over and I'm afraid I don't hear Mor Dhona in Ravana or Ivalice relating to anything else (I'd be impressed, given Ivalice is just FFT music), though since Mor Dhona is one of the prime "militaristic" songs - it's what Lakeland is based off, that wouldn't be an unsurprising reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
(Also, you really think it's a coincidence that the penultimate Norvrandt dungeon is based on the first ARR dungeon and that the Sastasha theme shows up in a bunch of ARR dungeons? It's not exactly uncommon to do bookends and have references that work on multiple levels.) -
08-05-2020, 09:44 PMGulaI went and re-listened to them and I don't hear it. And you have that in reverse, since FFXV came first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcs2emQFAVw
Also which boss theme?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKHUcCQ65mg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbS_SILgn00 -
08-06-2020, 03:57 AMStepjam
Each expansion has a different musical style. Shadowbringers' style is electronic rock, where HW was european symphonic and SB was eastern themed. And of course not all the songs are rock, but it's to be expected that many are.
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08-06-2020, 04:33 AMPuremallaceWell obviously but I think they do Classical the best. It is just an opinion and personal taste. Trust me if this is the biggest issue I have with dungeons then they are doing pretty good in my view lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Stepjam
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08-10-2020, 12:36 AMBloodRubyXII
MOAR CRESCENDOS
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08-10-2020, 12:49 AMViolet_Galaxy
I would definitely like a soundtrack more closer to HW. Out of all the soundtracks, I thought that was just pure perfection with Great Gubal Library being one of my favorites!
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08-10-2020, 01:16 AMTheMightyMolluskBrutal Legend crossover when?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gula