*Edit 2* This is no longer my preferred solution. Please ignore this.
*Edit* After reading more opinion from the other DRK. I got some idea.
But first thing first
Something need to done with DRK's slow animation
Some of DRK weaponskill make them feel slower despite having the same skill speed with other tanks
Please fix the slower feeling of DRK's weaponskills
let have a look at Quietushttps://gfycat.com/harmoniouspettybongo
compare it to PLD's Total Eclipse>https://gfycat.com/foolishboweddutchsmoushond and we can see that Total Eclipse is faster despite having the same sks
please increase the animation speed of Quietus by 30% like this>https://gfycat.com/scholarlyagileindianelephant
Next is Bloodspiller
this is the most awkward move DRK ever have. It force us to do the exercise every time before we can begin to hitting the target>https://gfycat.com/paleadmirableflycatcher [front] https://gfycat.com/infatuatedwelldocumentedgreyhounddog [back]
*slower version for the better observation*>https://gfycat.com/questionablesimplisticamoeba [front]
so please,pretty please, cut that part and let us use the only part that mean we meant business like this>https://gfycat.com/enchantingvastantarcticfurseal [front] https://gfycat.com/coollavishkakapo [back]
*slower version for the better observation*>https://gfycat.com/fewassuredabyssiniancat
also I will have to talk about the most complaining ability that add more complications to DRK and Healer
IT
IS
THE
Living Dead
seriously at this point many people especially the DRK and healer probably already knew how notorious this ability is but just in case that you missed that part please take a look at this thread>https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ut-Living-Dead
currently the problem with Living Dead is it required too much resources
so I suggest we do this:
New Living Dead
Living Dead Duration: 10
Grants the effect of Living Dead. When HP is reduced to 1 while under the effect of Living Dead, instead of becoming KO'd, you will receive the debuff "Walking Dead
While under the effect of Living Dead, most attacks will not lower your HP below 1. If, before the debuff Walking Dead timer runs out, HP is 50% restored, the Walking Dead debuff will be removed. If 50% is not restored, you will be KO'd.
Walking Dead Duration: 10 [Increases HP recovery via healing actions on self by 50%]
and give new version of "Sole Survivor" Ability to DRK
Marks yourself with the status Survivor. If the effect expires , 30% of your maximum HP will be restored.
Acquired : LV.45
Duration: 10s
Recast Time : 120s
by using Sole Survivor 1-2 secs before using the Living Dead it will ensure that we can remove Walking Dead before the timer run out because when Sole Survivor effect expired 1-2 secs before Walking Dead timer end we will restore 45% of our total hp [30% from Sole Survivor + 50% HP recovery boost = 45 %] now if we restore the rest of 5% earlier by using either Souleater/Abyssal Drain then our survival against Walking Dead debuff is pretty much guaranteer. Healer probably don't have to waste much resource than it needed anymore should they need to heal DRK with Sole Survivor on cooldown since the required HP that needed to be heal is lowered to 50% and the Walking Dead also give HP recovery boost.
Dark Mind
Acquired : LV.50 instead of LV.45
yes you can accquire 1 skill from level up and 1 more skill from the job quest.
Example :PLD learn Circle of Scorn by simply level up to 50 and get 1 more skill from completing LV.50 Job Quest
=============================================================================
Now let's get to the part about the "idea" I got from reading other DRK's opinions I mentioned earlier
DRK Skill/Ability Tweak 5.3 and beyond
Salted Earth
Removed
Abyssal Drain
Acquired : LV.52 DRK Job Quest https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...t/fe102830cbc/ The Knight and the Maiden Fair instead of Salted Earth
Gain the second Additional Effect: Damage over time, Potency: 40 , Duration: 15s
Blood Weapon
New Effect : Grants 5 stacks of Blood Weapon, each stack allowing your weaponskill to restores 600 MP
Duration increased from 10 secs to 15 secs
Edge of Shadow
Potency reduced from 500 to 450
Delirium
New Effect:
Grants 3 stacks of Delirium, each stack allows the execution of Quietus and Bloodspiller without cost, restoring 3000 MP when landing either weaponskill.
Comparison between Original and Tweaked
Original DRK [5.2]
Opener [Single Weave]
200+500+300+200+400+200+300+300+500+600+500+600+450+600+500+600+200+600+200+400
Tincture >The Blackest Night > Blood Weapon
Hard Slash [200] > Edge of Shadow [500] > Syphon Strike [300] > Plunge [200] > Souleater [400] > Living Shadow > Hard Slash [200] > Salted Earth [300] > Syphon Strike [300] > Edge of Shadow [500] > Delirium > Bloodspiller [600] > Edge of Shadow [500] > Bloodspiller [600] > Carve and Spit [450] > Bloodspiller [600] > Edge of Shadow [500] > Bloodspiller [600] > Abyssal Drain
[200] > Bloodspiller [600] > Plunge [200] > Souleater [400]
1 x Salted Earth [300]
1 x Abyssal Drain [200]
1 x Carve and Spit [450]
2 x Hard Slash [200x2=400]
2 x Syphon Strike [300x2=600]
2 x Souleater [400x2=800]
2 x Plunge [200x2=400]
4 x Edge of Shadow [500x4=2000]
5 x Bloodspiller [6000x5=3000]
9 OGC, 11 GCD
Total 8150
GCD and OGC available during buffs window
*Disclaimer* these aren't meant to be a rotation just an available gcd and ogc during buff window
Blood Weapon [Every 60 Secs]
[10 times max in 10 mins raid ]
Maximum GCD during buff = 5
Hard Slash [200] + Abyssal Drain [200] + Syphon Strike [300] + Carve and Spit [450] + Souleater [400] + Edge of Shadow [450] + Bloodspiller [600] + Hard Slash [200]
200+200+300+450+400+600+500+200 = 2850 x10 = 28500
mp leftover from bloodweapon = 1200x10=12000
Delirium [Every 90 Secs]
[3 times max in 10 mins raid ]
Maximum GCD during buff = 5
Bloodspiller [600] + Salted Earth [300] + Bloodspiller [600] + Bloodspiller [600] + Bloodspiller [600] + Bloodspiller [600]
600 + 600 + 600 + 600 + 600 + 300 = 3300x3 = 9900
mp leftover from Delirium + 1 Bloodspiller= 200 So Bloodspillerx5 = 1000x3 = 3000
Blood Weapon & Delirium overlap [Every 180 Secs]
[4 times max in 10 mins raid ]
Maximum GCD during buff = 10
Hard Slash [200] + Abyssal Drain [200] + Syphon Strike [300] + Carve and Spit [450] + Souleater [400] + Bloodspiller [600] + Edge of Shadow [500] + Hard Slash [200] + Bloodspiller [600] + Salted Earth [300] + Bloodspiller [600] + Bloodspiller [600] + Bloodspiller [600] + Bloodspiller [600]
200 + 200 + 300 + 450 +400 + 600 + 500 + 200 + 600 + 300 + 600 + 600 + 600 + 600 = 6150 x 4 = 24600
mp leftover from both blood weapon & delirium = 2200 x4 = 8800
*Total number and potency of Edge of Shadow from natural mp regen in combat and leftover from combo
[natural mp regen in combat = 3 secs per 1 tick, 1 tick = 200mp , 10 mins = 600 secs = 200 tick. Total 200x200=40000mp ] + [23800 mp leftover by combos in buff duration] = Total 63800
1 Edge of Shadow = 3000 mp so 63800 mp = 21 Edge of Shadow
1 Edge of Shadow = 500 potency x 21 = 10500
Total = 73500 + 10%[Darkside] = 80850
Tweaked DRK [5.?]
Opener [Single Weave]
200+400+300+450+400+[Living Shadow]+200+500+300+500+600+500+600+500+600+500+400+500+200+500+300
Tincture >The Blackest Night > Blood Weapon
Hard Slash [200] > New Abyssal Drain [400] > Syphon Strike [300] > Carve and Spit [450] > Souleater [400] > Living Shadow > Hard Slash [200] > Edge of Shadow [450] > Syphon Strike [300] > Edge of Shadow [450] > Delirium > Bloodspiller [600] > Edge of Shadow [450] > Bloodspiller [600] > Edge of Shadow [450] > Bloodspiller [600] > Edge of Shadow [450] > Souleater [400] >Edge of Shadow [450] > Hard Slash [200] > Edge of Shadow [450] > Syphon Strike [300]
1 x New Abyssal Drain [400]
1 x Carve and Spit [450]
3 x Hard Slash [200x3 = 600]
3 x Syphon Strike [300x3 = 900]
2 x Souleater [400x2 = 800]
3 x Bloodspiller [600x3 = 1800]
7 x Edge of Shadow [450x7 = 3150]
9 OGC, 11 GCD
Total 8100
*Note* Replace the Plunge in the opener rotation with Edge of Shadow would leave 2 Plunges to be used in weaving between next 2 GCD after the opener's end but since we didn't used it in the opener it mean that would reduce the maximum number of times we could use Plunge in the entire fight [the opener take 11 GCD = around 26.4 secs with 2.4 sks] so the additional potency gain from Plunge would be around 200 for the entire fight or 300-400 at best but the certain thing is it wouldn't be included in the opener and won't contribute to the openner's total potency/damage.
GCD and OGC available during buffs's window
*Disclaimer* these aren't meant to be a rotation just an available gcd and ogc during buff window
Blood Weapon [Every 60 Secs]
[10 times max in 10 mins raid ]
Maximum GCD during buff = 5
Hard Slash [200] + New Abyssal Drain [400] + Syphon Strike [300] + Carve and Spit [450] + Souleater [400] + Edge of Shadow [450] + Bloodspiller [600] + Hard Slash [200]
200+400+300+450+400+450+600+200 = 3000 x10 = 30000
mp leftover from blood weapon = 1200x10=12000
Delirium [Every 90 Secs]
[3 times max in 10 mins raid ]
Maximum GCD during buff = 5
Bloodspiller [600] + Edge of Shadow [450] + Bloodspiller [600] + Edge of Shadow [450] + Bloodspiller [600] + Edge of Shadow [450] + Hard Slash [200] + Syphon Strike [300]
600+450+600+450+600+450+200+300= 3650x3 = 10950
mp leftover from Syphon Strike = 600 x3 = 1800
Blood Weapon & Delirium overlap [Every 180 Secs]
[4 times max in 10 mins raid ]
Maximum GCD during buff = 10
Hard Slash [200] + New Abyssal Drain [400] + Syphon Strike [300] + Carve and Spit [450] + Souleater [400] + Edge of Shadow [450] + Bloodspiller [600] + Hard Slash [200] + Delirium + Bloodspiller [600] + Edge of Shadow [500] + Bloodspiller [600] + Edge of Shadow [500] + Bloodspiller [600] + Edge of Shadow [500] + Syphon Strike [300] + Souleater [400]
200+400+300+450+400+450+600+200+600+450+600+450+600+450+300+400 = 6850 x4 = 27400
mp leftover from both blood weapon & delirium = 1800x4 = 7200
*Total number and potency of Edge of Shadow from natural mp regen in combat and leftover from combo
[natural mp regen in combat = 3 secs per 1 tick, 1 tick = 200mp , 10 mins = 600 secs = 200 tick. Total 200x200=40000mp ] + [21000 mp leftover by combos in buff duration] = Total 51000
1 Edge of Shadow = 3000 mp so 51000 mp = 17 Edge of Shadow
1 Edge of Shadow = 450 x 17 = 7650
Total 76000 +10%[Darkside] = 83600
5.3 and beyond DRK Tweaked AOE
Stalwart Soul
Acquired : 40 instead of 72
yes you can accquire 1 skill from level up and 1 more skill from the job quest.
Example :PLD learn Circle of Scorn by simply level up to 50 and get 1 more skill from completing LV.50 Job Quest
Unleash & Stalwart Soul changed from spell to weaponskill
[Having the main aoe that do not benefit from sks is bad because if we have 1320 sks [2.4 gcd] we lose 1 gcd every 24 gcd [1min]. It also doesn't make sense that these aoe are a spell , it have no mp cost , no cast time but still got disbled by silence debuff and DRK isn't a witch/wizard because DRK is the one who drew power from the darkness within with the help of soul crystal instead of citing incantation and cast spell]
*New* Blackblood
Lv. 62
Allows for Blood Gauge accumulation upon the landing of Souleater or Stalwart Soul.
Souleater Combo Bonus: Increases Blood Gauge by 20
Stalwart Soul Combo Bonus: Increases Blood Gauge by 50
*Enhanced Blackblood Trait will only effect single target weaponskill [Hard Slash, Syphon Strike, Souleater and Bloodspiller ]*
*New* Enhanced Blackblood
Lv. 66
Allows for Blood Gauge accumulation upon the landing of Hard Slash, Syphon Strike, Souleater and Bloodspiller while under the effect of Blood Weapon
*AOE Weaponskill will no longer gain benefit from Enhanced Blackblood Trait *
*Flood of Darkness/Shadow do not grant darkside*
*Stalwart Soul receive the Blackblood trait at LV 62 and generate 50 Blood instead of 20*
*Salted Earth removed*
*Abyssal Drain gain the 2nd Additional Effect: Damage over time, Potency: 40, Duration: 15s *
*New Delirium grant free uses of Bloodspiller/Quietus without cost for a total of 3 times*
*New Delirium restoring [3000] MP when landing either Bloodspiller/Quietus*
AOE Comparison between GNB/PLD and Tweaked DRK
GNB
24 GCD [60 secs]
Demon Slice 150 x4 [600]+ Demon Slaughter 250 x4 [1000] = 1600 + Bow Shock [650] + 20% [No Mercy] = 2700 + Demon Slice 150 x8 [1200]+ Demon Slaughter 250 x8 [2000]
Total = *5900*
[if single target OGC count]+ Danger Zone during No Mercy window [420] + Danger Zone outside No Mercy window [350] = 6670
24 GCD [60 secs] LV.72 with Fated Circle
Demon Slice 150 x3 [450] + Demon Slaughter 250 x3 [750] = 1200 + Fated Circle 320 x 2 [640] = 1840 + Bow Shock [650]+ 20% [No Mercy] = 2988 + Fated Circle [320] = 3308 + Demon Slice 150 x5 [750] + Demon Slaughter 250 x5 [1250] = 5308 + Fated Circle 320 x 5 [1600]
Total = *6908*
[if single target OGC count]+ Danger Zone during No Mercy window [420] + Danger Zone outside No Mercy window [350] = 7678
PLD
24 GCDs [60 secs]
Total Eclipse 120 x 5 [600]+ Prominence 220 x 5 [1100] + Circle of Scorn [295] + 25%[Fight or Flight] = 2493.75 + Circle of Scorn [295] + Total Eclipse 120 x 7 [840]+ Prominence 220 x 7 [1540]
Total = *5168.75*
[if single OGC count] + Spirits Within during Fight or Flight window [462.5] + Spirits Within outside Fight or Flight window [370] = 6001.25
24 GCDs [60 secs] LV 72 with Requiescat & Holy Circle
Requiescat [550] + Holy Circle x 5 [375 x 5 = 1875]
*2425*
+
*4268.75*
Total Eclipse 120 x 5 [600]+ Prominence 220 x 5 [1100] + Circle of Scorn [295] + 25%[Fight or Flight] = 2493.75 + Circle of Scorn [295] + Total Eclipse 120 x 5 [600]+ Prominence 220 x 4 [880] = *4268.75* [if single OGC count] + Spirits Within during Fight or Flight window [462.5] + Spirits Within outside Fight or Flight window [370] = 5101.25
Both Magic and Melee combo without Spirits Within = 6693.75
Counting all = 7526.25
DRK
24 GCDs [60 secs]
*Flood of Darkness/Shadow do not grant darkside*
*Stalwart Soul do not have Black Blood regeneration trait*
*Salted Earth removed*
*Abyssal Drain gain the 2nd Additional Effect: Damage over time, Potency: 40, Duration: 15s *
Unleash 150 x 12 [1800] + Stalwart Soul 160 x12 [1920] = 3720 + Flood of Darkness 250 x3 [750] = 4470 + New Abyssal Drain [400] = 4870 + Flood of Darkness x 2 [500] <1200 leftover mp restored by Stalwart Soul + 4000 mp from natural mp regen in 60 secs, 3 sec per tick, total 20 ticks but let say that you get some more from mp regen outside combat between the first and another pull *out of combat = 600 per tick ,in combat = 200 per tick*>
Total = *5370*
[if counting Carve and Spit without full burst MP at dungeon start +450 = 5820]
[if counting full mp burst at first pull]+ Flood of Darkness x 3 [750] = 6120
[if counting both full mp burst + single target OGC]+ 450 [Carve and Spit] = 6570
*full mp burst usually happen once at the first pull of dungeon only*
24 GCDs [60 secs] LV.66 with Quietus
*Flood of Darkness/Shadow do not grant darkside*
*Stalwart Soul receive the Blackblood trait at LV 62 and generate 50 Blood instead of 20*
*Salted Earth removed*
*Abyssal Drain gain the 2nd Additional Effect: Damage over time, Potency: 40, Duration: 15s *
Unleash 150 x 8 [1200] + Stalwart Soul 160 x8 [1280] + Quietus 210 x8 [1680] = 4160 + Flood of Darkness 250 x2 *1 from SS + 1 from BW* [500] = 4660 + New Abyssal Drain [400] = 5060 + Flood of Darkness x 2 [500] <*1800 leftover mp restored by Stalwart Soul + 4000 from natural mp regen in 60 secs, 3 sec per tick, 1 tick = 200 mp, total 20 ticks but let say that you get some more from mp regen outside combat between the first and another pull *out of combat = 600 per tick ,in combat = 200 per tick*>
Total = *5560 *
[if counting Carve and Spit without full burst MP at dungeon start +450 = 6010]
[if counting full mp burst at first pull]+ 750 [Flood of Darkness x 3] = 6310
[if counting both full mp burst + single target OGC]+ 450 [Carve and Spit] = 6760
*full mp burst usually happen once at the first pull of dungeon only*
24 GCDs [60 secs] LV.74 with Quietus & Flood of Shadow
*Flood of Darkness/Shadow do not grant darkside*
*Stalwart Soul receive the Blackblood trait at LV 62 and generate 50 Blood instead of 20*
*Salted Earth removed*
*Abyssal Drain gain the 2nd Additional Effect: Damage over time, Potency: 40, Duration: 15s *
Unleash 150 x 8 [1200] + Stalwart Soul 160 x8 [1280] + Quietus 210 x8 [1680] = 4160 + Flood of Shadow 300 x2 *1 from SS + 1 from BW* [600] = 4760 + New Abyssal Drain [400] = 5160 + Flood of Shadow x 2 [600] <*1800 leftover mp restored by Stalwart Soul + 4000 from natural mp regen in 60 secs, 3 sec per tick, 1 tick = 200 mp, total 20 ticks but let say that you get some more from mp regen outside combat between the first and another pull *out of combat = 600 per tick ,in combat = 200 per tick*>
Total = *5760*
[ 6210 if counting Carve and Spit without full burst MP at dungeon start]
[if counting full mp burst at first pull]+ 900 [Flood of Shadow x 3] = 6660
[if counting both full mp burst + single target OGC]+ 450 [Carve and Spit] = 7110
*full mp burst usually happen once at the first pull of dungeon only*
24 GCDs [60 secs] LV.74 Quietus & Flood Shadow & New Delirium
*Flood of Darkness/Shadow do not grant darkside*
*Stalwart Soul receive the Blackblood trait at LV 62 and generate 50 Blood instead of 20*
*Salted Earth removed*
*Abyssal Drain gain the 2nd Additional Effect: Damage over time, Potency: 40, Duration: 15s *
*New Delirium grant free uses of Bloodspiller/Quietus without cost for a total of 3 times*
*New Delirium restoring [3000] MP when landing either Bloodspiller/Quietus*
Unleash 150 x 7 [1050] + Stalwart Soul 160 x7 [1120] + Quietus 210 x10 [2100] = 4270 + Flood of Shadow 300 x5 *1 from SS + 1 from BW + 3 from Delirium* [1500] = 5770 + New Abyssal Drain [400] = 6170 + Flood of Shadow x 2 [600] <*1200 leftover mp restored by Stalwart Soul + 4000 from natural mp regen in 60 secs, 3 sec per tick, 1 tick = 200 mp, total 20 ticks but let say that you get some more from mp regen outside combat between the first and another pull *out of combat = 600 per tick ,in combat = 200 per tick*>
Total = *6770*
[if counting Carve and Spit without full burst MP at dungeon start + 450 = 7220]
[if counting full mp burst at first pull]+ Flood of Shadow x 3 [900] = 7670
[if counting both full mp burst + single target OGC]+ Carve and Spit [450] = 8120
*full mp burst usually happen once at the first pull of dungeon only*
Dark Knight QOL V.2
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07-17-2020, 05:45 PMcactuarzzzzDark Knight QOL V.2
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07-17-2020, 08:46 PMOdinelStarrei
You made another thread? Couldn't you have just updated your previous one with an edit and bumped it instead of consigning all those posts to the void by making a new thread and pushing another thread off the 1st page?
Oh well, let's tackle this.
There is no reason to clutter the DRK buff/debuff UI with LD, WD, and a Doom. If you wanted change, you just need to add your healing buffs onto WD. Buffs and debuffs don't necessarily need to locked into beneficial or harmful effects. Take Riddle of Fire in SB for example as a Slow, but still being on the buff bar or Surge Protection/Beyond Death as a "detrimental effect" that is beneficial despite being a debuff. Healers who don't understand WD, probably don't understand Doom either, and we have like FOUR versions of it. All it needs is "Infirmity" added to it with the healing value going from a negative to a positive, or Convalescence. I could support 50% HP though. We've done this before guys, we're not going anywhere on this anytime soon.
I don't mind Sole Survivor coming back, but you've removed the MP from it, so now I care a lot less. What you've essentially done with these two skills is made it so that with planning, you can grab a 45% HP boost to coincide with a LD usage, which is a little interesting, but too strong. I personally find this clunky, as it would at that point be mandatory to hold usages of Sole Survivor purely to save healer actions. With only 5% remaining to be restored, you could easily make that up yourself with 3 GCDs of Souleater and your new Abyssal Drain. So since the intent was for DRKs to solo heal themselves after WD, you sure accomplished it, but I don't know how I feel about LD being solo'd like that, it almost seems over complicated to have so many skills that exist just to mitigate one invuln skill when no other tank has such concessions, please compare this to Nascent Flash/Equilibrium not necessarily being mandatory for Holmgang. Should probably just have the entire skill reworked at that point rather than reworking Sole Survivor, and propping up Abyssal Drain.
Speaking of which, Abyssal Drain. You've made it so that an AoE skill is now a single-target and an AoE skill, a homogenization not even WAR has to deal with. I get to think even less! Per minute, you get around 6-7 Souleater combos after factoring in gauge dumps. This adds up to 2450 minimum healing potency with an extra 200 out of Abyssal Drain. In terms of healing, changing Abyssal Drain and deleting Bloodspiller, but keeping the self-healing has now added a minimum of 1000 healing potency per minute from Delirium and an additional 400-800 from passive gauge accumulation that requires dumping. This boosts the healing potency of the job per minute to around 4K per minute, not even counting in the 30% HP Sole Survivor change every two minutes, which is frankly absurd self-healing potential that you accomplish entirely passively, no input or trade offs from the player needed. Think Clemency having a big disadvantage, NF being a CD, Storm's Path being 250 cure potency compared to Souleater's 300 as an equalization for free Equilibriums, or Aurora being a HoT. On top of TBN and other passive regens, with this, I think you've made DRK way, way, way too hard to kill.
In terms of deleting Bloodspiller/Quietus, I don't think that's a good idea, not only because I think it's visually uninteresting for Abyssal Drain to be a spammable outside of an AoE situation like in HW/SB, but because the damage potency you've given it, combined with Delirium CD decrease, you've actually inflated DRK's damage above GNB and made it incredibly easy for it to be used, not even requiring melee range or any real consideration for it's usage. (Yes, I know E5S add and E6S fire tornados are boring, but I don't think THIS is the answer, DRK is NOT a caster.)
Over ten minutes, the numbers break down like this.
New:10 usages = 500 potency each = 2500 potency per use = 25K potency total
Current: Around 7 depending on killtime = 600 potency each = 3000 potency per usage = 21K potency total
That discrepancy will only increase the longer you make the encounter, and by having it perfectly line up with raid buffs again, you're again indirectly buffing the damage of DRK, something I think a lot of people don't really care about.
And you only remove ~2K potency over ten minutes in single target, that scales up linearly per enemy because of no damage fall off by deleting Salted Earth. I don't really understand that either. You've deleted THREE skills off DRK, and replaced them with one restorative oGCD that does nothing for the mana economy, so you've also lowered the actions per minute, and haven't actually tackled most of the playstyle issues that plague the job. You've also managed to over-centralize one skill over all others in the kit, Abyssal Drain is your GCD Single Target gauge dump, your GCD AoE gauge dump, a good portion of your healing, your burst GCD via Delirium, and your job's primary raid buff skill, because you better believe 3 (+1) Edges at 500 potency aren't going to the center focus, when Delirium will do way more than that once a minute with no concessions or planning whatsoever. This last one is a problem in and of itself, it has to do with the gap and the lack of playstyle differences between good and great DRKs becoming even smaller, happens on most tanks actually, but I won't get into that here.
(Small note: You can't change damage potency to only become 210 at 2+ targets, you need to have it have damage fall off. The initial value on the first target will always be 500 because of how the game determines damage values, calculations are done per enemy, not per group.)
(Another Small note: Please consider the amount of visual clutter occuring on the screen during your buff windows now. +200 Delirium mana per Abyssal GCD, +600 per GCD from Blood Weapon, +HP from Abyssal GCD, +600 MP from CnS, I don't know, might seem annoying to some, and not the clean, consistent HW/SB BW mana updates.)
EDIT: And something I didn't realize until I walked away, was that you didn't write anything about the difference between Delirium when used for Bloodspiller and when used for Quietus, because you combined the skills, you only have one MP regen value, so you've either buffed DRK's damage EVEN MORE in single target at +500 MP each and more frequent Deliriums without a corresponding Edge/Flood potency nerf, or you've nerfed it at +200 MP in AoE, reducing TBNs in big pulls and lowering AoE damage ceilings.
I do not currently support a nerf to TBN. It's DRK now. Punishment for misuse at 25% will still happen at 20%. Under almost all situations where TBN is being used during progression at lower gear levels, it WILL break. If you decrease it's power by 5%, you're just removing 5%, you're not actually helping anyone use it more optimally, in my opinion, particularly in large mob pulls in dungeons, later floors of Savage encounters and Ultimate.
Please consult this post I made on TBN this tier for more information and numbers regarding that.
Giving buffs stacks like Bunshin if they are not going to be reworked (which is what I would want) are fine for a band-aid fix to broken skills.
Unleash and Stalwart Soul should be weaponskills as well, I support that 100%, SkS should not be a dead stat for any weaponskill combo on a melee job.
The fact that there are no words on the DRK mana economy or ease of Darkside upkeep in either direction is also disappointing.
/shrug -
07-17-2020, 09:18 PMcactuarzzzz1.Maybe I haven't seen your own idea of better LD. Give me a link.Quote:
Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei
2.The Doom's debuff name and Icon could just change if Healer's confusion is a thing. Also I want to rid "WD end prematurely" problem when I suggest add doom and let WD stay for the full duration.
3.Removed 3 skills that don't change much because you still spam that 1 gcd over and over for Delirium and nobody will miss the current Salted Earth. In fact both NA and JP community want it gone and the drk I know all want Sole Survivor back but we can't have free mp without increase our dps and upset other tank. If I suggest that it would be like set myself up for another wave of disagree and rejection. I also don't believe that easy to use and effective at the same time is a bad thing otherwise I would have to scorn the Requiescat+Holy Spirit Spam.
Maybe you can enlighten me with how lower tbn by 5% is going to lead to our downfall when I also suggest how it would also grant dark art if it didn't break but effect expired naturally. I have a feeling that you probably already crossed to the elite tank's realm but not everybody want to play like elite tank all the time and in this case I don't want tnb to be over complicated let alone enjoy the idea of DRK new identity is "the subject of penalties"
4.After suffered and my identity reduced to another tank clone for a year DRK being hard to kill is what I welcome wholeheartly. You can go around heralding that tbn is now our identity all you want but I know the origin DRK from HW that is know for the best self heal not the current gutted tank who gave AS spam to PLD which positively responded by the community when it's actually something stolen from DRK. I also remember that self heal and hard to kill/ make healer able to skip healing isn't WAR identity but you seem to be fine with it so I don't think I should take you seriously when you try to say what's too strong.
5.I would be appreciated if you use your calculating skill to help improve and not for ridicule and utterly reject my idea. It is a disheartening to met someone who could help but choose to bring you down instead and least you forget : Bring DRK to the top of tank dps isn't my intention and will never be.
6. Your last issue saying "The fact that there are no words on the DRK mana economy or ease of Darkside upkeep in either direction is also disappointing. "
Darkside upkeep is currently a big problem now? You think add more mp resource isn't the direct way to to increase DRK's dps and eventually make other tank to don't wish it to happen too?
Sorry if these words of mine come out as a harsh but you probably already stop to consider and forgot how to understand our feeling of normal tank or normal person sometime ago. -
07-17-2020, 10:24 PMLucy_Pyre
You again? Can't wait for all the hilariously bad takes. /popcorn
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07-17-2020, 10:30 PMcactuarzzzzYou again? coincidentally I feel the same way with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre
For the record :
You were murdered by Lyth's word.
You stepped on the landmine that I laid before you and told you beforehand about it.
Your conversation with Satarn show how little exp you have about how healing in raiding work.
So anytime I see you show up from that point I can't help but my feeling is like the jester strike again. -
07-17-2020, 10:40 PMLucy_Pyre
lol
/10char -
07-17-2020, 11:46 PMOdinelStarrei
Maybe I came off as condescending or rude, my apologies, that really wasn't my intent, nor is it to present my feedback as unilateral disagreement. I'm always open for DRK discussion. Please forgive me if I caused offense.
1. Ironically, I posted my very small LD thoughts in the thread you made in January before 5.2. Here it is. "Just slap Convalescence on it." But I know you may be looking for how I may actually rework the skill, as all I ever say about LD is to "stop beating this dead horse please SE isn't listening to us." Here are a few ideas I've had over the years, going from standard to more unique redesigns.
A. Keep Living Dead as is, add 50% from healing actions, as you stated, and tweak the HP needed for recovery if necessary, I'd be okay with even 75%.
B. Living Dead(Skill, 360s CD, +60 seconds from current) Reduces HP to 1, and grants Walking Dead.
Walking Dead (Buff, 10s to 15s Duration, (not too sure how long would appropriate)): Cannot be KO'd by most attacks, 100% HP amount needs to be restored via healing over the duration of the debuff to avoid KO, all single target attacks gain a 1:1 Damage:Lifesteal ratio, and all AoE attacks gain a 5:1 Damage:Lifesteal ratio.
C. Living Dead (Buff, 10s duration, 240s CD, -60 from current) Cannot be KO'd by most attacks, half of all damage done to player is stored. Upon expiration, Living Dead changes to Walking Dead.
Walking Dead (Debuff, 10s duration) Upon expiration of this debuff, damage stored from Living Dead is dealt to the player. Can be mitigated with shields, or mitigating the hits that contribute to the debuff, but not the debuff damage itself. Think delayed tankbuster. Encourages intelligent TBN usages, TBN the buster to reduce the debuff damage, TBN your debuff damage afterwards if needed. This is also to make LD worthwhile even if you don't invuln something, as you will always mitigate damage, just delay the consequences.
D. Living Dead (Buff, 8s duration, 360s CD, +60 seconds from current) Reduces HP to 1, and renders you invulnerable to most attacks.
Isn't this exactly Superbolide? Yes, that's why:
Superbolide (Skill, 8s duration, 240s CD, -120 seconds from current, wonder if -180 would be better) : Create a barrier around yourself for 100% of your HP value. No invuln at all, but mitigation does work. You'll augment the GNB's defensives a bit, but there will be things(but not many) that do above 300K HP instantly that you can't solo, forcing your other tank for that.
Probably more that I've discarded, such as Darkside or another resource capping removing Walking Dead, Walking Dead failure removing all your mana/blood as a consequence, but I think you get the gist of it.
I think there is some merit to knowing the exact damage value of high single target and removal of raid mechanic avoidance with invulnerability to make cooldown maps more distinct between each tanking composition. Kinda wonder if I even want invulns in the game at this point.
2. I understand your intent on separating the two better with your update. But outside of INCREDIBLY fringe situations, cleansing WD early doesn't really happen or have disastrous consequences . I've only been killed by being healed early in something like E7S tankbuster's magic vuln second hit, and that was INTENTIONAL, never happened to me by accident. Phys/Magic vulnerability double busters with short durations that you won't tank swap for post invuln are just not common enough in encounters for this to be truly appropriate. But this is anecdotal, feel free to disagree with me here, I can understand your perspective.
3. It actually does change, please re-read my post, I made an edit halfway about the MP changes under Delirium that you would get rid of. I don't want current Salted Earth, you're right. I DO want Salted Earth in the game, it's one of the only damage puddles left. I'd want to have some kit interactivity, maybe a lower CD, and since it's classified as a buff, maybe give some passive MP or Blood regeneration like in SB? I want there to be a point to the skill, I don't want it axed. I want Sole Survivor back too, there was no reason to remove it, but if you want to change anything regarding the DPS of DRK, it's very easy to do so. You either change to Darkside +damage buff percentage, change the potency of Living Shadow hits, or reduce the potency of Edge/Flood. All of these things will directly lower a DRK's damage in a consistent way without upsetting it's current damage profile. When you start removing and reworking skills, it becomes much harder to see how your damage scales in content. People will always disagree with each other man, that's the point of discussion forums. Your arguments and suggestions should stand under the scrutiny of other players, otherwise, how are they going to stand up against developers with significantly more knowledge than anyone posting on this forum? In theory, anyway. And I DO AGREE with some of the things you're saying here, as stated in my last post.
There is also a critical difference between "ease of use" and "braindead". PvP combos by definition are easy to use, but by SE's own admission, they are not adapting that system to PvE content. PvP combos are like that because of the ever-shifting environments of Feast. I call Delirium braindead, because in PvE, there's so much rigidity in the structure of the game design, that I don't have to think at all about anything other than the cooldown. GCD combo decay, mana amounts, buff alignment, none of that comes into question, that's the main issue. Inner Release is easy to use, but it's not braindead, because you have to consider Enhanced Infuriate Trait and IC, there are repercussions for using IR without those two things in mind.
Also you're right here, even after multiple re-reads, I didn't see that DA is granted on expiration of TBN, but I have concerns about that too. If TBN expires and you still gain the proc, you've kinda ruined openers, because every DRK will start asking for TBN pre-pull so they can start with a pre-fight Dark Arts, and then everyone has to wait. This is similar to the old Aetherflow issue. You've also kinda degraded the aspect of TBN that makes it appealing to players, properly timed mitigation in the middle of battle. If you aren't punished, then why would you not just start TBNing literally on CD? There's no incentive not to, because of the sheer amount of healer GCDs it saves, even with raid buffs accounted for. Doesn't that make DRK too powerful defensively at no cost in comparison to other tank short-duration CDs and also an incredibly overpowered OT?
Also I'm not an elite tank. I'm just a tank.
4. DRK in HW/SB was only self-healing god in dungeons. Outside of dungeons where Abyssal > MP gain > Abyssal loops could not be sustained, DRK did not have more self-healing than WAR. It just didn't. Self-healing has been ingrained into WAR since 2.0 with the first Inner Beast version, to the detriment of the job. Ever since those bad times, we've seen things like, Bloodbath+Fell Cleave don't heal me i'll live, Defiance directly affecting the HP bar, Thrill, NF and Equilibrium as CDs that directly affect the HP bar, OG Storm's Path being objectively better than Storm's Eye after slashing debuff because of the self-healing on top of debuffing. Even now, NF in dungeons is a lesser, but still accurate version of Bloodbath+Decimate/Steel Cyclone HP steal, where again, WAR says ,"actually don't heal me, i do more HPS than you will anyway". I want DRK dungeoning to return too, but you'd need to rework so much other stuff it's not applicable to a 5.3 QoL thread. It requires BW to have multiple target application for mana regeneration, Abyssal to be changed back to a GCD with life steal, or given a charge system (I actually like this), Blood generation to be increased, a lot of stuff. I want it, but I also want to be realistic.
And I thought HW DRK's identity was "lol Perpetual Ray what's that?" DRK's identity has been in conflict for years. I understand the frustration with being a clone, but we can't elevate DRK beyond other tanks as a result.
5. Like I said before, my tone could be interpreted as too harsh, and I apologize again. Understand that I'm not ridiculing you, because you haven't presented your side as unequivocally correct and immune to all pushback even it's coherently presented. Which is what I'm trying to do. There's a reason why I took the time to write this out, and not just say "yeah ok bud" and ignore your posts entirely like some others, because it seems like you actually care about DRK and push for changes. But they should be rational ones that fit with the job. Also, I know you don't intend to bring DRK to the top, no one intends to do that for their job at the cost of game balance I would like to think, but that's exactly what's happening when I looked at your suggestions with a more critical eye were they to be implemented, as is. (outside of TBN expiration, I would've addressed that in my last post, my mistake)
6. I think MP regeneration is too slow with Edge too expensive, I'd like less drastic differences between the two, including nerfing potencies but increasing usages of Edge/Flood, nerfing the potency of Bloodspiller so it isn't the most damaging skill in DRK's damage profile by the end of encounters, and some skills reverting to previous versions. If you go into PvP, there's DRK systems in there regarding the MP acquisition and spending that could be translated (with adjustments) back to PvE for a more smooth, and engaging experience.
I do think Darkside upkeep is a critical problem, and I've written some posts on that as well, that I'll go ahead and snip a synopsis of that for your purview, hidden under the following tag.
From this data, two things are very apparent. This is the personal opinion part. Feel free to skip over it.
Darkside, regardless of what you’re doing with your playstyle or MP consumption CANNOT be dropped. It’s not like on PLD or GNB where you could miss a GCD in your FoF/No Mercy window. And it’s certainly not like WAR where an entire GCD combo needs to be dedicated to upkeep the buff. No matter what you do, core XIV combat design of “Always Be Casting” and “Don’t overcap” ensures that Darkside will always remain active, to the point of where I wonder why it even has a gauge or a buff timer at all. It takes zero effort on the behalf of the user. If the damage buff on Darkside did not exist, I would still use the exact same opener and follow the same priority systems in my rotation simply because of MP overcap. You could buff all DRK potencies by 10% and literally nothing about the job would change, and I don’t think that’s a compelling game design decision, particularly when compared to past iterations of Darkside implementation.
EoS gives way too much Darkside, the cap is far too large, the excess duration does nothing for your job, and frankly, I think it’s because of the those things that make post-burst window DRK so dull, not the limited amount of GCDs. In contrast, WAR has Storm’s Eye and Infuriate to watch out for outside of burst, and GNB/PLD have dedicated, FIXED rotations that need to be morphed around an encounter, with GNB in particular having the cartridge system on top. We COULD have something similar with a reduced Darkside cap and EoS extension nerf, but it wouldn’t really solve the problem as it’s just a button you press impacting your GCD rotation like other tanks or intense, immediate punishment for failure.
Minor nitpick/side note/detour, but even the fact that the Darkside gauge shows the duration on Living Shadow rubs me the wrong way, since the duration of that can not be modified whatsoever. It just looks cool. Instead there’s nothing, and that’s a core problem with Darkside. Instead of there being something there, it feels not only empty, but unfinished, like Blood of the Dragon before you get Wheeling Thrust or Fang and Claw.
The second, and more hopeful conclusion is that there is a VAST amount of potential that is up for job expansion here. This is the secondary reason I made this topic. According to the data, on average, you’re looking at an almost equivalent amount of Darkside Overcap time relative to the time you actually spend in combat. 600 seconds is a long time, and it’s a very deep pool. Is it possible for SE to do something with this?
I’ve always been saying “The player FEELS exactly what’s wrong, but has exactly zero idea HOW to fix it properly a lot of the time without breaking things.”
That’s why I don’t often throw out my own ideas for rebalancing, job expansion, reworks, or anything of the like. However, this time, it is glaringly obvious that there NEEDS to be a reason for Darkside to have such an excessive amount of duration and buff accumulation potential in comparison to every job in the game.
SE is not going to rework this job another time, so we have to build upon the foundation that we have in 5.X rather than rip it out by the roots again in 6.X. Anything too drastic, overcomplicated or antithetical to CURRENT tank design isn’t feasible.
And regarding to "forgetting the feelings of normal tank or normal person sometime ago."
You're probably right.
But I'll never forget how much I love DRK, cringy as that is. -
07-18-2020, 12:49 AMcactuarzzzzLook MR.Odine. While you're look for "Make it more challenging, give me something more to manage and look out for" us normal tanks are already drained with how DRK's kit in shb work. This is probably give off the feeling of difference. There might come a day that I finally step on the same ground and feel the same way with you but at this point I would like to go step by step, one at a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei
About your suggestion of LD the version A is the closest to the middle ground we could get to while in the the case of version B there's still a problem of prematurely end WD on our own or have to stop attack because we want to prolong the buff duration.It is also noteworthy that our attack could CRI. Also if we get hit by debuff that preventing us from attacking or lower our damage output in the future content then the problem would still persist.
For Version C The possibility that in the future the damaged stored would far exceeded tbn and kill us still remain.
As for Version D I don't want to be the one who have to argue with GNB main from now on, please spare this poor little tank. -
07-19-2020, 12:11 PMKazukiyashuo
Living dead is the best invunerability cause of its huge duration. If u cant see that then u maybe need to reroll. Try using a macro informing your healers that u used it. If your healer cant heal u up tell to your healers to reroll cause yeah. They obviously doing it wrong.
About other changes i kinda agree the idea of making DRK a mini warrior was bad and lost much of his identity -
07-19-2020, 01:49 PMLyth
Living Dead has an effective duration of 1-9 seconds, depending on when you cleanse Walking Dead. If you aren't at 1 HP, you aren't mitigating damage with it.
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07-19-2020, 02:02 PMKazukiyashuoYou arent mitigating dmg with holmgang or superbolide as well. It just can drop you below 1 hp for 8 seconds. With living u have a holmgand for 10 seconds and if it happens to go below 1 hp u have 10 more seconds to mitigate damage. So if u have a whm thats like 19seconds invunerability. If u dont have whm lets say its like 15 seconds. Still OP skill in my eyes with decent cooldown. The fact that most ppl cant value its use or cant use correctly doesnt make it a bad skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
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07-19-2020, 02:09 PMKazukiyashuoAnd even if u get the worst case scenario that a skill will kill u 1 hit u have 10seconds of invulnerability which is hallowed ground with less cooldown. Still a win win situationQuote:
Originally Posted by Kazukiyashuo
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07-19-2020, 02:48 PMCharsorianoA new glamour for Dark Knight weapon
I would like to see a large flip flop as a weapon. :rolleyes: It would be a fun weapon for the Dark Knight.
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07-19-2020, 02:54 PMLythLiving Dead is never 10 seconds of mitigation. If you get to 10 seconds, you die. At best, it's a hard 9 with Benediction use, but reserving Benediction for Living Dead costs you Benediction uses. At worst, it's whenever your healer cleanses the effect. It's the only invuln where the ability can be terminated early by another player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazukiyashuo
Holmgang isn't really 8 seconds of mitigation, but it's usually a soft 7. As long as there's no outgoing raidwides, your co-tank can swap off you and you can sit at 1 HP until your healer's HoTs or your personal self-healing ticks you back up to a safe zone. Superbollide is a guaranteed 8 seconds of mitigation. Use it, throw whatever heals you like on it to get to a safe zone during those 8 seconds, and then ignore.
This would be an excellent Dev Team weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charsoriano
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07-19-2020, 11:50 PMRyuDragnier
Just make it so while under the effects of Walking Dead, all DRK weaponskills restore 100% of their damage as HP. It allows the DRK to pull themselves out of danger without outside help, or at least most of the way through.
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07-22-2020, 03:24 PMTranquilmelody7Would that really be balanced though? That kind of sounds OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuDragnier
NGL though, if Living Dead worked that way it would be my favorite of the invulnerability skills(Superbollide is my current favorite to use). -
07-23-2020, 04:11 AMDWolfwood
I would really just like if the DRK suffered a -50% current HP for 4 ticks while not being able to be reduced passed 1HP.
Otherwise, let's just make them all like Hallowed Ground. The animations are cool enough as is.
Edit - Better yet, just give us Dread Spikes finally. Make the ability not be able to reduce us passed a certain point and reflect back a small potency attack for every hit taken. Can give it the same CD as Hallowed Ground even. -
07-23-2020, 04:15 AMDWolfwoodWhat I don't like about this, and just another reason I hate LD in general is, sometimes you want the full 10 seconds on an invuln. This just makes it even harder than it already is.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuDragnier
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07-23-2020, 05:28 AMLythNot really. There are plenty of times where there are no targetable mobs present, and it depends largely on the amount of burst that you can put out in the 9 or so seconds that you have before the buff kills you. You're also still potentially taking damage in this time period, so it's not even like you're healing back to full.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7
You still need a gauge system to show your healer (and yourself) how much healing remains to cleanse the effect. And the buff needs to last for the full duration instead of ending the beneficial effect whenever you meet the required healing total. -
07-28-2020, 02:55 PMcactuarzzzz
After reading more opinion from the other DRK. I got some idea. Please check the first page
Quote:
Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz
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07-28-2020, 06:44 PMYani-Madara
I love salted earth. It makes DRK more unique. If anything it needs a buff and a cooldown reduction so it can be continually used. If anyone has a problem setting it down, a macro can be used to drop it on a target.
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07-28-2020, 09:36 PMcactuarzzzz
It isn't the ground target system but it is the requirement that the target have to stay in salted earth aoe pool for the full 15 seconds to get the full dot damage that's what make it bad. However if you really want to keep it then you can just ask the dev to make aoe stick to the target instead of sticking to the aoe pool and any target that touch aoe later during 15 seconds would get dot stick to them as well but it could bring the problem about the timing for dot's duration [target touch aoe when salted earth remaining duration is 5 and got 15 secs dot stick to them] also i'm not sure can dev coded it to make it function like that?
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07-29-2020, 01:31 AMSatarnI disagree - that's what makes it good. With lower cd and longer duration in SB, the entire fun of Salted Earth was planing placement in such a way that it would cover both the current boss' position, as well as where you know it will be moved for mechanics. While it's not always possible to achieve when the boss straight up jumps from one end of the arena to another - in which case you just may have to delay the use, same as you might delay a burst window if you'll be forced to disengage - you don't need to have the enemy's hitbox entirely inside the AoE range, you merely need to have them connect at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz
It's a skill mechanic that you have to play around, which makes it more engaging than just pressing your rotation buttons on auto with no potential interruption or chance of failure(like current Darkside for example). One of the main issues with current DRK is exactly that its gameplay is near completely lacking in anything you have to think about, as both its upkeep buff and resources are already pre-planned to "just work" by design. -
07-29-2020, 01:39 AMcactuarzzzz
For a moment I thought we're talking about the current salted earth in SHB.
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07-29-2020, 02:41 AMSatarnYou can try being smug, but it doesn't change the point. SHB didn't alter how the ability works in terms of its interaction with enemy hitboxes and positioning. I did not say there is no issue with current Salted Earth, rather that it's the opposite of what you're trying to say. Being a placeable AoE that enemies have to stay in is not a problem at all - it's a mechanic. The actual issue is that lower uptime and less impact on DRK as a whole(like removal of Blood generation) makes SHB Salted Earth less engaging than its previous iterations - hence the callback to the better version in SB. Outright removing it or changing the ground placement aspect wouldn't make it more engaging, it would be the opposite, making your suggestion bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz
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07-29-2020, 03:37 AMcactuarzzzzThis is the part where the civil discussion starting to end. Don't have to try if you can't keep your head cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satarn
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07-29-2020, 05:35 AMshao32
Well lets see, i will make a list first of you proposed changes to make it simple and be sure i don't forgeth anything.
-DRK feeling slow with his animations, special mention to quietus and bloodspiller
-Living dead with sugestions to dealt with it.
-Dark mind lvl changed.
-Salted earth removed and merged with abyssal drain.
-Blood weapon bunshin proporsal.
-Small Delirium rework.
-Darkside mechanic erased?
-ajustments on learning stalwar soul and his effects.
Maybe i miss something, i did skip the math part mostly bcs i find it unnecesary to analyze and im bad at the art of wizzard math apart numbers can be balanced so i find it unnecesary right now, if i miss something tell me. So lets beging.
-Animations and slow feeling
Well i call this a problem of the current pace of the job more than the animations himself, lets remember DRK use to have a sustained suply of oGCD in the past across the rotation so right now it's way more easy to percive the animations of the soul eater combo and Bloodspiller/Quietus as something slow, they has always been like that, the thing is now we are starving MP and oGCD and see the gap betwen all of them.
Personaly feel like Quietus animation it's ok, the problem is how the skill has been nerfed apart of the lack of oGCD, Bloodspiller is almost the same with the exception bloodspiller is more weird and looks horrible when you interrup the animation with an oGCD, but in resume both skills looks great is they aren't used as much compared to current situation. Let's lookd at SB, nobody really complains about this 2 skills animation bcs they uses where powerful but low uptime skills, now are spamed like madman and Bloodspiller look specially awfull under Delirium for that, both skills aren't mean to be spamed aesthetically wise.
In resume the slow feeling is for the lack of oGCD and the downtime of the job forcing you look at those slow animations during a prolonged preriod of time without any oGCD whatsoever when in HW and SB don't so i don't think they animations should be reduced, more like we need more oGCD betwen them.
-Living dead and sole survivor
It's ok for me i don't see anything bad with that, i personally preffer the sole survivor option due it grant us the oportuniy of use it on livind dead or not depending of what strategic we are using, sometimes we will need walking dead stay up but those situations are like the 0,1% of the game but still neat.
-Salted earth and Abyssal drain
technically speaking there is nothing wrong with this proposition but im with the rest, DRK right now is the most simple and brain dead job of the game, removing salted earth not only will make it even more braindead but will remove the only unique thing outside of TBN the job have to be unique somehow, so while i understand the QoL for a skill that has been unfairly nerfed i wont like that if there is nothing to sustitute his gameplay loss.
-Blood weapon
A bit of the same, nice QoL for a skill that have been awfully nerfed and make it more easy to execute, it will solve the latency problem for sure but design wise i still don't like it.
-Delirium
This one is curious, in fact this one will help on making the job dont feel so slow under his oGCD downtime as adding more oGCD, it will have more sinergy overall with the rest of the kit compared that the current one, but.... and here come the drawback, i can't stop thinking that is a simplified Gnasing fang combo, exactly the same but with only 2 butoms, so we change DRK being a WAR copy to a GNB copy and at the end will solve nothing? well that depends if you goal is make DRK unique or not with this changes.
-Darkside
Maybe i miss something but only saw you removed darkside from both Flood and Edge so DRK will forgeth complety about Darkside? i know the mechanic it's a waste of time and space right now but his comlety removal? well, it won't change anything right now if it was removed but DRK needs complexity somewhere and Darkside needs to be more inclusive gameplay wise not less in my opinion.
-Stalwart soul
Learning Stalwart soul early it's a nice sugestion, i firmly belive DRK need that skill way more early too.
Im a bit indiferent about make them a weaponskill, specially after the bunshin bloodweapon it wont be necesary, but the changes on blackblood generation are another thing, this will make DRK have a combo of 3 in lvl 62 wich is exactly the same way that GNB operate his AOE, using a combo of 2 to generate a cartridge to allow him use his fated circle, will be the same with DRK using his unleash combo to use a quietus rigth after.
in resume your proposed changes stop making DRK being a simplified WAR clone to become a simplified GNB clone with minor diferences and taking way more time to use his "Gnasing fang combo", some things are nice like learning early some skills and the return of sole survivor to help living dead but the rest will make DRK even more simple and don't really help it to find his unique path in my opinion, i hope i helped. -
07-29-2020, 05:47 AMOdinelStarreiThis is a lot better.
Okay okay, now THIS is something I can get behind! Thank you very much for accepting my feedback and refining some of your ideas. I'll skip over the aesthetic changes as I feel that's more up to personal preference (not that I disagree) and go into the revamp itself.
I see you've moved the damage from Salted INTO Abyssal Drain. This is actually a consolidation that I can see working, but I think it's too similar to CoS and Bow Shock as you've described it here. But the benefits are very plain to see. You get rid of the clunkiness of a <t> or <me> Salted Earth Macro, and reduce button bloat. But I think there's still potential in Salted Earth, and I'd really hate to see it go, so I offer a compromise. Perhaps you could have default Abyssal Drain at first, but it could be upgraded later on via trait to gain Salted Earth's effects on top of it's default characteristics? We have a skill in the game that works similarly to this already, Enkindle: Earthen Fury on SMN's Titan-Egi, only difference is the AOE puddle effect would proc on the first enemy target, rather than on the spell source like Titan-Egi or in this case, the DRK. I got a mental image of Abyssal Drains dispersing at the end of their animation, the ball instead actually dropping into the ground and creating the Salted Earth effect, maybe granting passive bonuses ala SB Salted Earth, such as an HP or Blood regeneration, while lowering the CD of Salted at the same time to make it more used in the kit. Or perhaps the Abyssal Drain could stick to an enemy and "pulse" for periodic AoE damage that will still continue in the event of enemy death, similar to Ifrit's Searing Wind in UWU. Just a few ideas so we can get the best of both worlds here, even if I do personally prefer the targeted aoe.Quote:
Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz
Regarding Blood Weapon, as before, I naturally 100% support a Bunshin system to make DRK more reliable on opening pulls, higher pings, and higher SkS thresholds. This is a no brainer, and should have been altered yesterday.
You've also changed Delirium to a true MP generation tool, but I think you may have gone too far. I'll expand on this point in a second with the changes you've made to Edge and Flood, but for right now, you're going in the right direction.
First, I have to commend you for going through the effort of doing potency calculations for both single-target and AoE situations as I suggested to assure that DRK does not become overpowered with a retooling of skills. It is a tedious, thankless, and frustrating effort, but makes your post have actual some ground to stand on. There are some mistakes, some instances of pre-change Edge of Shadow in your calculations, but I'm more into the playstyle changes than the hard numbers. I'm going to split up my feedback in MP, Blood, and Darkside areas to be more specific with my individual concerns.Quote:
Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz
MP
I do prefer Delirium being an MP steroid, that's a given, but I think that 9000 free MP every 90 seconds is a bit too spread out for it's own good. (I'm assuming it's 90 seconds because you didn't put a CD change here, like you did in your original post, but even if it is 60, this line of thinking should still apply.)
A higher MP amount being granted similarly to the PvP system is a change I've historically been a fan of, but there is a reason why that number is so low there, and I think it's because they are still trying to push the "mana stockpile, mana dump" playstyle in that content. You're still achieving that here, sort of, but you've drastically shortened the mana stockpile phase by adding in a preemptive dump every 90(?) seconds to avoid overcapping from the sheer amount of MP gain, and then demanding an immediate MP dump within the Delirium itself. Compare this with both your current and new version of Blood Weapon MP generation. We press it pre-raid buffs with the intent of gaining mana, but BW itself does not have any innate damage bonuses, so no actual damage is lost as long as you don't overcap. This is more of a problem during your 180/360/etc... re-openers compared to opener, because in order to get the maximum benefit of your new Delirium, I think it'll require you to dump at least two MP spenders to avoid a potential overcap after standard stockpiling and blood weapon applications, despite no actual raid buffs being applied. You would want your Bloodspillers to be inside of the buffs, so you need to delay Delirium to not miss out on the buffed GCD damage. I don't know exactly how long you are intending for Delirium stacks actually last, so I'm just assuming the next 3 GCDs need to be Bloodspillers, and in terms of button presses, operate identically to the PvP version.
In short, you're putting a lot of weight into Delirium that I don't think the skill can realistically support within the current sandbox of DRK. It's essentially putting 3150 potency into 3 GCDs that only come up once every 90 seconds, with that semi-awkward stockpile > dump pre-raid buffs because BW > stockpile via Delirium > dump during raid buffs system. That's a bit too clunky for my liking. I think the 3 GCD burst system like this works best on GNB due to it's frequency, CPM increase, and most importantly, need for a job resource to be maintained pre and post burst to prevent losing said resources evenly. (cartridges) For example, when Bloodfest comes up before every third GF combo, at worst, you can press the Bloodfest after dumping one Burst Strike and starting the combo. And even if your combo will end on the Solid Barrel, you have enough time to use another Burst Strike to prevent overcapping, which would make Solid Barrel a overall potency loss compared to Burst Strike if you did. To translate what you've done to GNB, is like you've given Blasting Zone or Sonic Break a cartridge gain on top. At that point, I think you've gone too far, too quickly with generating resources. Hopefully this analogy makes SOME sense? I can see what you're trying to do though, and I will elaborate on a tweaked system once we get down to the Darkside section of my post. But compared to the last version you had, which was essentially Dark Requiescat, there's room to work with at least.
Small note I couldn't fit it anywhere else:
DOES ANYONE ELSE WANT TO REMOVE MANA REGEN TICKS OFF DRK? I AM STARTING TO HATE THEM, I THINK. BUFF SYPHON?
Blood
This mainly pertains to changing Stalwart Soul to 50 gauge accumulation. I realize why you've done this, it's to make parity between Fated Circle and Quietus, but I think you've missed the mark here by not doing a 2 target potency calculation. To avoid bloating this post even more, I'm just going to use BJ/CC or LL/hand as examples. Demon Slaughter > Fated Circle is an objective gain at two targets, literally drop GF. But Stalwart Soul > Quietus isn't. Even currently it's like that. But because you've increased the amount of blood you gain via Stalwart, you've forced DRK to use Bloodspiller over Quietus even more than we do in two target situations currently since Quietus' potency is unchanged and doesn't have an additional effect like mana generation to make it worth using over Bloodspiller. Right now, you can get 9-10 GCDs of pure AoE (depending on Blood Weapon) without needing to Bloodspiller once, but with your change, you will require dumping every 4 at least, less under a Blood Weapon or coming into a phase with >0 Blood. I'm not exactly criticizing this path you've taken, I'm just wondering if that was your intention. I do support moving Stalwart Soul down though, and Flood of Darkness' (not Shadow) potency nerfed a little bit to compensate for the increased MP at those lower levels. Let me know what you think about this point.
Darkside/More Delirium talk
Since Darkside as a mechanic and Delirium's cooldown and implementation is central to why DRK feels so bland currently, I would also like to bring up that you have not solved my issue of the gap of 1-2-3 single target spam during post-burst/mana stockpiling. I'd like to keep your idea, but change Delirium's CD down to 45 seconds, nerf the mana acquisition to +1500 or +1000 instead of +3000 each, and reduce the potency of Bloodspiller down to 500 base, with a reduction of Living Shadow's potency to compensate for doubling the Bloodspillers. The goal of this is to intentionally dealign Delirium and increase it's usages, but still get a similar amount of MP regen overall.
"But you just said a problem with the Delirium was that it forced Edges of Shadow outside of raid buffs, now you're dealigning Delirium from the buffs outside of 3 min burst phases?"
Yes, that's because I think that Edge should be the primary damage source on the job, augmented further with more party buffs during dump phases.
I don't know if you've read shao32's DRK thread(i'll post in there someday), but a change in there that I really like was that Flood of Shadow applies the Darkside, and Edge of Shadow doesn't. You have it in reverse here, and I think that's for the worst, you have not changed the core issue of Darkside being brainless by being automatically re-applied and overcapping the Darkside timer during burst. You'd just use Edge one time in AoE to get the buff and spam Flood, emulating a similar problem to WARs being forced to Storm's Eye before beginning their AoE rotation, though not as nearly as pronounced I will admit. I think you could have your Delirium also be your stop-gap solution to this problem, by having it be your free Flood of Shadow to keep your Darkside timer going, but still having a place in opener/reopener damage burst by retaining the Bloodspiller usages. By tying the two together like this, I also think that there are enough differences between it and Atonement/GF 3 GCD burst skills on the other tanks. You'd also have a direct punishment for applying Flood too many times, not only by overcapping Darkside gauge unnecessarily, but also by just losing out on potency versus Edge. It'd be up to you to make sure your Darkside lasts throughout your entire Edge burst each minute after Delirium/BW mana boosts. Think Storm's Eye vs Storm's Path, and yes, I know WAR clone, I know, but there is a significant difference between GCD combo investment (Eye) vs Mana investment (Darkside) that I do think makes them sufficiently unique from each other. With Eye you are never losing out of potency as long as the buff isn't dropped, and Mythril Tempest will extend it in AoE, but it's a lot more inflexible by the nature of being a GCD combo. With this Darkside system, you WILL lose out on potency because Flood isn't as strong as Edge, while still requiring the same amount of MP, but will become a potency gain overtime because of Darkside, which you trade for instant application, range, flexibility, a gain on 2+ targets, and free upkeep like Mythril Tempest in AoE. Eye = Keep it running as long as possible without dropping. Darkside = Use as few Floods as possible to maximize total potency.
An example of this from an optimization perspective would be E6S Garuda/Ifrit. You can get in two Floods on the two of them before they apply their invuln buffs, you've just given yourself 60 seconds of Darkside at a DPS gain, while other players will be forced to re-apply on only one target at a loss if they delay. Even better if you come out of solo Ifrit at 12 or so seconds to get the maximum amount of duration applied, possibly giving you an Edge over a Flood in the long run.
Thoughts?
Thanks for re-tooling your topic, and taking feedback from others. Think of it this way, you've already changed more stuff about your own post than the development team did with the live game. :^) -
07-29-2020, 05:47 AMSatarnI disagreed with your proposition and then presented a clear, logical explanation as to why and you responded with a sarcastic non-argument. I'm a little confused as to how I am the one who's supposedly not keeping a cool head here or incapable of civil discussion, when it is you who's being snarky, instead of actually addressing my position whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz
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07-29-2020, 06:06 AMcactuarzzzzTake a look at what you start your replies with in the your previous posts recently. It's show how your mood are. You kept insulting and calling me being smug, snarky but what I wrote when I thought it's the current salted earth is genuine feeling of surprise. I never forbid nor will I fight to keep the old salted earth from coming back. I'm not the one who try to offend you. Save your hot debate & aggressiveness for the job identity thread please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satarn
Last warning : you don't look like someone who's in a good mood or calm. -
07-29-2020, 06:24 AMcactuarzzzzI understand how you would feel different. No doubt that my plan can't hold a candle against the original HW DRK. But at this point hoping for a changes like that look impossible. We were hoping, asking very politely> begging for a rework for a year but to this day we still get nothing so when hoping for a rework [that bring back the original DRK + improvement while keeping the job identity] look like not possible in 5.x I feel... instead of sitting and waiting for 6.0 I might try came up with a tweak instead since we anticipated that what the dev would do isn't a the major rework, but a tweak at best anyway I might try came up with something on my own and that's why I made this but if by any chance the dev really feel like grant us DRK the good rework then I'll gladly take that over mine own little plan and scrap it any day ^_^Quote:
Originally Posted by shao32
*PS* Also Darkside isn't remove from Edge only Flood.
Thank you for spend your time and give me the feedback. -
07-29-2020, 07:01 AMcactuarzzzzI expected this when I begin on that idea. But what can I say ? even with the normal version we got right now Unleash+Stalwart Soul+Bloodspiller on 2 targets is always stronger than Unleash+Stalwart Soul+Quietus on 2 targets and the real reason is because Bloodspiller potency is around 3 time stronger than Quietus with 600 vs 210 so Quietus will always lose to Bloodspiller on 2 targets aoe rotation. But I can only limit myself to a tweak that require less work for dev instead of the rework now that we see how dev don't show interest in putting much effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei
Yes, thank you. This one is frankly my miscalculation. It's the right call to asking you for the analysis. I might come back and give more replies when I have the chance. [tomorrow seem like a really busy day]Quote:
Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei
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07-29-2020, 07:06 AMSatarnIf you are referring to some other posts I might have made in completely different threads, then that is pretty much the very definition of an ad hominem, which is neither constructive, nor polite really. Those have nothing to do with this discussion and I have no intention of dragging irrelevant things into here. I have not insulted you, I have merely pointed out what your retort came off as - smug and nonconstructive. If you did not mean it in that way, then perhaps I have misread, but it doesn't make it an insult.Quote:
Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz
And again - randomly implying somebody's not capable of "civil discussion" or giving a "last warning", is yet another thing that comes of as far more aggressive than anything I have said to you. It looks more like you're projecting your own defensiveness onto my words, hence the assumption that I have to be in a "bad mood".
If you were indeed genuinely confused by my reference to SB Salted Earth, then my second post should've been explanation enough, but instead of addressing that, you keep trying to make odd judgments on my mood of all things. If you have no intention of defending your idea though, rather than taking any counterpoints as personal attacks, then I suppose the discussion is indeed pointless. -
07-29-2020, 07:37 AMshao32Yeah i understand, i basically did the same in my Delirium rework threat, i mean asking for smalls changes to make the whole job being more... torelable experience the rest of expansion it's a wise aproach specially when other jobs like MNK or AST are dealing with more serious issues, i did hold my hopes when we complain the first months but right now SHB is a lost cause and i personally have a lot of fear on what will happen on 6.0, if DRK remain like this FFXIV will die for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz
Oh then i missed that detail on darkside thanks for point it, well they have mentioned after me, wich good for AOEs since you will use Edge for darkside time flood will become the main MP expender when not, the problem that doesn't work for single target rotations unless you add a new MP skill that act as main MP expender when you don't need darkside time, like Odinel mentioned in my threat i sugested something similar, Edge don't granting darkside and flood being the only source, that allow us to use flood when we need darkside time and Edge when don't, and in aoe situations i changed Abyssal drain to cost MP so is the same dinamic as Edge and Flood but in aoe situations with Flood granting darkside and Abyssal being you primary MP expender when don't need more darkside time, small diferences but granting greater results i think but in general similar concepts.
And you welcome, i'll try to give you more feedback if you make new stuff like this in the future as i recive feedback from you if you want to too ^^ -
07-29-2020, 08:00 AMcactuarzzzzWhy would I try to explain when your action here right now is already what I feared would happen? And all this start with a misunderstood on your side which you didn't feel like apology nor guilty and still try to defend it. The right action [manner] when you misunderstood someone and accuse them for something is to offer an apology but instead you keep pushing forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satarn
Discussion what? it is a misunderstanding and the whole chain of replies from that point till now is how I try to notify you of your mood and your tone while you refused to reflect on yourselves and show no remorse when you made a mistake. The way you post, even the way you start your replies is still the same in job identity post. While you continue to attack me I gave you a warning as a reminder to look at yourself instead of treating you the same way you did to me. We never discussing anything because all you did is attacking me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satarn
I believe normally that you Mr.Satarn would be the reasonable person but right now you look like someone who's in the bad mood that looking for a target for an opening to attack and win. There's no middle ground, no compromise. I have no intent to make an enemy of you and tomorrow is going to be a very busy day so I can't and don't want to continue this any further so if you want to vent something more at me then fine I don't mind but I've to stop now since I've hoped that you would come to your sense sooner before we reach this point but it did not happen. -
08-07-2020, 08:09 AMcactuarzzzzOdinel as much as I would like this thread to be removed/moved to page 2 of the forum I have no other way to contact you. Do you mind take a look at what I came up with again:o>https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...t-won-t-happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei
Can I count on your analysis again? thank you.