What did your favorite job used to play like?

I joined around 4.4 and love reading about how the game used to be.
There are plenty of sites that break down how the jobs currently work, but I've been trying to read about how the jobs USED to play... but can't seem to find that anywhere.
So I though I'd ask all of you to share your personal highlights. How did your favorite job used to play?


(And please, tell me what the skills do.
If you just describe it's gameplay as "I'd open with Chaos Thrust and then pop Quirk of the Undead and Hammer of Nuance" I'm just gonna be lost. I don't know the old skills so their names will mean nothing to me.)

I was one of the weirdos who liked SB DRK. Basically imagine drk as it currently is but bloodweapon gave an attack speed buff and lasted longer, and delrium extended the duration. Class got memed on for just "spamming dark arts", and I will admit you did press a lot of dark arts (about 8-10 casts per min so about double the rate of edge of shadow), it was essentially what edge of shadow is now, but instead of being straight up damage, it buffed your next attack in some way, and it was able to be pressed way way more frequently. The class itself was fun to play because it was a rescource management job the other way round, instead of having a limited amount of rescource you slowly built, your resource built way too fast and you were constantly having to dump it, which made it incredibly satisfying when you could line up your mana and blood to maximise a trick window. I always described it as having 2 settings, Blend, and blend harder. It was also more interesting to play in dungeons than the other 2 imo, cos your feedback loop of abyssal drain -> quietus -> tbn -> abyssal drain was fun AF. There was also a fair few neat optimisations you could do using dark passenger for snap aggro on an add as a dps gain, and your powerslash combo being so powerful aggro wise meant you legit never need a tank stance even with no ninja. I understand it wasnt that popular so it got changed, but nothing quite feels like it now, especially as none of the tanks have a haste buff now.

I also liked HW machinist, the cast times just didnt bother me, and if you stacked your ammo right you basically had free mobility when you needed it anyway, pluss the wildfire burst when done right was super satisfying, also just liked that you just shot things a lot with your gun, I'm a sucker for that and the more technomancer approach to mch these days just doesn't appeal to me.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I was one of the weirdos who liked SB DRK. Basically imagine drk as it currently is but bloodweapon gave an attack speed buff and lasted longer, and delrium extended the duration. Class got memed on for just "spamming dark arts", and I will admit you did press a lot of dark arts, it was essentially what edge of shadow is now, but instead of being straight up damage, it buffed your next attack in some way, and it was able to be pressed way way more frequently, but the class itself was fun to play because it was a rescource management job the other way round, instead of having a limited amount of rescource you slowly built, your resource build way too fast and you were constantly having to dump it, which made it incredibly satisfying when you could line up your mana and blood to maximise a trick window. I always described it as having 2 settings, Blend, and blend harder. It was also more interesting to play in dungeons than the other 2 imo, cos your feedback loop of abyssal drain -> quietus -> tbn -> abyssal drain was fun AF. There was also a fair few neat optimisations you could do using dark passenger for snap aggro on an add as a dps gain, and your powerslash combo being so powerful aggro wise meant you legit never need a tank stance even with no ninja. I understand it wasnt that popular so it got changed, but nothing quite feels like it now, especially as none of the tanks have a haste buff now.

I also liked HW machinist, the cast times just didnt bother me, and if you stacked your ammo right you basically had free mobility when you needed it anyway, pluss the wildfire burst when done right was super satisfying, also just liked that you just shot things a lot with you're gun, I'm a sucker for that and the more technomancer approach to mch these days just doesn't appeal to me.

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Same here for DRK. I thought at least back in SB DRK had purpose and identity that was unique to itself. The concept of wanting to be attacked and the aoe'ing as a result of pulling a zillion enemies was such a thrill. Also the fact that while Dark Arts WAS ANNOYING.... you at least had the agency over your own MP pool that you do not have now.

hahah ReiMakoto that sounds like a really interesting job design.
My cup overfloweth with darkness and I've gotta figure out the best way to stop from capping.
AND it came with some sick dungeon loops?
I can see why you dug it so much~

Yeah, MCH doesn't really shoot with a gun so much these days, huh.
It's more like a funny wand that casts magic missile lol (not that I don't still main MCH...)

SB AST. After they got the Malefic change, I personally thought the job was perfect. The cards and it's system felt so impactful to use. It had much more depth.

I understand as to why they changed for balancing purposes, I just wish there could been a way to have it. Using Royal Road and having to choose between Spread, Enhanced, or Extended will always beat what we have now. Also the time aspects were very fun to use too.

Overall, it had more freedom to decide how you wanted things to be done. It's not just "damage."

Also gonna say that SB DRK wasn't that bad. Yes Dark Arts spam was meme worth but at least Delirium wasn't a straight up Inner Release copy.

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Originally Posted by Valic

Same here for DRK. I thought at least back in SB DRK had purpose and identity that was unique to itself. The concept of wanting to be attacked and the aoe'ing as a result of pulling a zillion enemies was such a thrill. Also the fact that while Dark Arts WAS ANNOYING.... you at least had the agency over your own MP pool that you do not have now.

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Well the thing was, dark arts spam wasn't actually as much on the release of SB drk, but the class was in desperate need of buffs at the start of its life, so instead of buffing drks actual damage, they kept buffing its mp generation (delirium going from 120s to 80s, sole survior being able to proc with no kill ect) and expanded what dark arts could be used on in the case of plunge, which was what lead to dark arts spam memes as it became more balanced. I still never personally found it annoying though (except maybe when double weaving for carve and spit when I was running maximum skillspeed drk at the end of alphascape)

Heavensward DRK guide when the job use to be unique and more well designed overall, this is my favourite version of the job and despite i loved SB too right now i only can rely in my memories to remember my favourite job of the game.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...k-Knight-Guide

SB SCH. To me it was the perfect healer/DPS hybrid. You had just enough DPS abilities to keep track of without it being overwhelming and because of their dot nature, rather than a flat rotation, it wasn't a huge hamper if you had to drop a dot here or there to get a heal. You had a responsive and impactful fairy, both of which did different things, that helped you DPS more. Hell the 2 different fairies even worked with its identity, you had a more offensive fairy and a more defensive one. This also paired well with its risk/reward gameplay it had with ED and Miasma II.

God I miss SB SCH so much.

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

Also the time aspects were very fun to use too.

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Wow, that sounds great. I'm sorry I missed out.

What were the time aspects and what did they do?

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Originally Posted by shao32

Heavensward DRK guide when the job use to be unique and more well designed overall, this is my favourite version of the job and despite i loved SB too right now i only can rely in my memories to remember my favourite job of the game.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...k-Knight-Guide

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Wow, thanks for the link. I'll be giving this a deep read ;)

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

SB SCH. To me it was the perfect healer/DPS hybrid. You had just enough DPS abilities to keep track of without it being overwhelming and because of their dot nature, rather than a flat rotation, it wasn't a huge hamper if you had to drop a dot here or there to get a heal. You had a responsive and impactful fairy, both of which did different things, that helped you DPS more. Hell the 2 different fairies even worked with its identity, you had a more offensive fairy and a more defensive one. This also paired well with its risk/reward gameplay it had with ED and Miasma II.

God I miss SB SCH so much.

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Wait, SCH's fairies used to be different?
An offensive fairy sounds like a really interesting concept. It kinda goes against the gentle happy helpful kinda vibe they're leaning into and I wish they were still exploring that.
Now a days if they tried to make the fairies different I half expect one would shield and the other would give regen :D

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

SB SCH. To me it was the perfect healer/DPS hybrid. You had just enough DPS abilities to keep track of without it being overwhelming and because of their dot nature, rather than a flat rotation, it wasn't a huge hamper if you had to drop a dot here or there to get a heal. You had a responsive and impactful fairy, both of which did different things, that helped you DPS more. Hell the 2 different fairies even worked with its identity, you had a more offensive fairy and a more defensive one. This also paired well with its risk/reward gameplay it had with ED and Miasma II.

God I miss SB SCH so much.

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I miss HW SCH even though I was an absolute massive casual at it, mostly because I LOVE dots, and HW SCH had dots in spades between Bio, Bio 2, Miasma, Miasma 2 (although it was pretty naff here) Shadowflare and Aero, its so annoying that theyve cut back on dots and debuffs in the game now just because of their limitations on how many can be displayed on a boss at once, rather than fixing that limitation.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I miss HW SCH even though I was an absolute massive casual at it, mostly because I LOVE dots, and HW SCH had dots in spades between Bio, Bio 2, Miasma, Miasma 2 (although it was pretty naff here) Shadowflare and Aero, its so annoying that theyve cut back on dots and debuffs in the game now just because of their limitations on how many can be displayed on a boss at once, rather than fixing that limitation.

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Unfortunately, I never had the chance to play HW SCH. I only played HW briefly, and that was as a WHM and even then, only up to level 40 or so. Though I'm sure I would've loved HW SCH if I had the chance to play it.

But the SB SCH I did eventually play, man, I was in love as early as level 40. I was thinking the whole time as I was leveling it up "it's like someone in SE made this class specifically for me, this is amazing!". I love healer/DPS hybrids, and after being disappointed in RDM, as that is just a DPS with a Rez and an oh shit heal you will never use outside of niche circumstances, I found my answer in SCH.

Then ShB happened and they ripped it away from me. T_T

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Wow, thanks for the link. I'll be giving this a deep read ;)

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you welcome, not many know how the job use to be before the actual oversimplificated transfrotmation to dark WAR, you will have more or less a clear view how the job use to work and all the tools at disposal, enjoy the read.

ARR summoner:

- Always use Aetherflow on cooldown. Gives you 3 stacks of Aetherflow. and some MP.
- Summon your egi. It's probably Garuda, the single target caster pet. Ifrit, the single target attacker pet wasn't too bad if he didn't have to move. Titan for solo so he tanks stuff for you.
- Use Raging Strikes (+20% damage), Spur, Rouse (pet buffs) and Enkindle (pet's mini ultimate ability).
- Set up DOTs. Bio II (35 potency on 30 seconds), Miasma (30 potency on 24 seconds, inflicts disease lowering target's movement and healing), Bio (40 potency on 18 seconds), Shadowflare (25 potency on 30 seconds, was casted on the ground and you could use it as much as you wanted to). If you were good you could keep up Thunder from black mage too (40 potency on 18 seconds).
- If Garuda is out put her on Steady and tell her to use Contagion to extend your powered up DOTs.
- Use Aetherflow on Fester (100 potency per Bio, Bio II and Miasma) or Bane (spreads your basic 3 DOTs to targets nearby and refresh their times). Energy Drain if you really needed MP, or if Aetherflow was coming out of cooldown and Fester was on cooldown.
- Control your pet. Set it to Obey on a target to attack it, set it to Steady before using their abilities while you cast yours so they didn't lose too much time.
- For area damage you used Bane, Miasma II and Tri Disaster (now called Tri Bind).
- Cast Ruin or Ruin II if you don't have to do anything else.

That's it... simplistic but I loved it, very active and at the same time, a very calm gameplay. Later they took away Thunder and allowed us to use Blizzard II from black mage so you used that for area damage.

Scholar was pretty much the same, as we had the same basic abilities from arcanists, main differences being no Fester and no Contagion. You had to use Cleric Stance to deal damage. Cleric Stance didn't let you heal while it was active and had 12 second cooldown (so if you turned it on, you had to rely on the pet and on Lustrate for 12 seconds if you wanted to heal) but made it so scholar dealt almost as much damage as summoner in area targets.

Also, Selene and Eos were separate pets. Selene had one ability to silence the target, one to increase spell speed and one to increase attack speed. She was a bit harder to use than Eos because you couldn't use both of her buffs at the same time.

Scholar's healing kit was really compact: Physick, 400 potency 2 sec cast time. Adloquium: 300 potency 2 sec cast time, put up a shield that doubled its potency if you crit. Succor was Adloquium for area. Leeches was Esuna. And the all powerful Lustrate that instantly healer 20% of target's max HP for 1 Aetherflow. It means that you could heal without switching off Cleric Stance...

There are a bunch of extras such as Super Virus, Eye for an Eye, Protect, Stoneskin, Aero... but if I talk about everything I'll exceed the character limit.

2.0 PLD, 1 combo that got used. All the defensive cds.

Made it way easier to call fight mechanics out when you didn't have to focus on a rotation.

I appreciate that the first post in this thread is about old DRK. Since there was already a small explanation of how it used to work up above, maybe I could give a more personal story about being a DRK main, rather than just saying "used to be good, is bad now."

In the beginning, I was actually a WAR main in HW, because my cotanks were usually always DRKs, even though I played both pretty evenly over the expansion. I loved WAR though. Back then, instead of having the Beast Gauge, we had Wrath and Abandon stacks (Defiance/Deliverance). It took five stacks to execute Inner Beast under Defiance for mitigation/healing or Fell Cleave for damage. Anyone who was around back then knew how OP WAR was, Fell Cleave became the job's identity for a reason, even if it probably wasn't the right move in hindsight. You got stacks by using combo enders, certain CDs, and I think Maim as well. Berserk was pure damage up with a pacification after it's expiration, so the strat was getting three Fell Cleaves under Berserk with a not so optional Fracture DoT on the 9th GCD. This was all well and good, and it pushed managing your stacks to make that possible each minute. WAR was flexible. In Stormblood launch, WAR got the Beast Gauge, functionally doubling the Wrath/Abandon cap from five to ten at 100 gauge (back to back cleaves were now possible without Infuriate) with Berserk still existing as a damage buff. All Inner Release did was half your gauge costs for all moves for 20 seconds, I think? So that 5 Fell Cleave stuff WAR has now was still there, but you had build up gauge first to ensure you went into it at 100 going into IR, FC down to 75, Upheavel and Onslaught down to 55, FC to 30, FC to 5, and then do some GCDs to regain enough gauge, FC to empty yourself out, and use your Infuriate for a free 50. We also still had back then Enhanced Infuriate, so the more you Fell Cleave'd, the more you could Infuriate.

I thought this was super interesting, because you'd have a "side" burst when Berserk was up, but IR wasn't. Every other Berserk was the IR 5 FC dream cleave time. Proper gauge management was the key, and once they removed the gauge cost on switching stances (don't know who thought that was a good idea), WAR was a really fun job to play. But because of design and the addition of Direct Hit, WAR's damage was highly variable, even among people with the exact same gear. Essentially, if you DH-Crit more Fell Cleaves, you just did better than other people who may have actually played better than you overall. This was a problem with WAR's damage profile, too much potency was loaded into those Fell Cleaves. So, even though 4.1 WAR (my favorite version of the job with old IR, but current Shake It Off), was balanced, it was changed in 4.2 to be it's current DCH, free five FC version with Berserk removed.

This is where the problems started. I loaded into the game that patch day, and was glad WAR's damage was now normalized, but the management between bursts I was looking for was pretty much gone. So, I put down my axe. I still played WAR occasionally, but I fundamentally disagreed with IR, I was not a fan of how easy it was to execute and five GCDs of pressing the same button was a bit boring after awhile. It wasn't exciting like how getting the random crits were before, even if it was for the best. My static had long disbanded by that point, so I was free to play other jobs, and by other jobs, I mean DRK. As Rei posted early on, DRK was the mana engine. It was fast, it's skills were unorthodox in comparison to literally every job in the game. Before my static imploded in Deltascape, I went double DRK with the other tank in some normal Deltascape raids for a bit of friendly competition. TBN gives 50 guage on break with a shield THAT big? Isn't that a huge RDPS gain for the healers? I started thinking, "What if I could max my usages of TBNs, not just for the healers, but to make sure I was getting as many Bloodspillers on the boss as possible? End phases on them? Burst single target under raid buffs if I could get the break in time? It'll keep my mana from overcapping as well, just trading it for blood. There's potential here." My co-tank had never thought of that when I asked him. (casual static) That was the beginning of the journey.

So I practiced. First on dummies, immediately realizing just how fast I was pressing buttons, over twice the actions per minute I was on WAR. No matter where I was in my rotation, there was some kind of non-standard oGCD timer I needed to press, Blood Weapon, Delirium, Sole Survivor, Dark Passenger if I was overcapping too quickly to dump with Dark Arts. I was very interested, because I had always intended on playing DRK as my main job, but this was the first time I was actually able to in real content post-HW. Instead of high damage burst like WAR, I had to be consistent. I had to BECOME speed, and my only speed limit was 0 MP. After practice, I would load into dungeons and be literally invincible due to the Abyssal Drain > BW Quiteus > TBN > Abyssal Drain loop, DRKs were rare, and healers were absolutely shocked, how incredible they told me, seeing my HP yoyo from half to full over and over and over again, without any intervention on their part. Good DRK's were rare, and I was starting to become one. It was euphoric, honestly. By this point, I was full edge. Sigmascape drops, and DRK gets more changes, TBN gets longer duration to break easier, think this is when Dark Mind just innately gave 30% magic up without needing Dark Arts, other things. SE was actually touching the job, like how they were touching PLD and reworking WAR, so I was confident each patch potentially bringing something exciting to incite more players to the job. But in O6S, there was a moment that solidified me not as a DRK main, but as a DRK fanatic. PUG, weekly reclears. Cotank joins on WAR and asks me to switch off, nicely. I comply, O6S is primarily magic anyway, and I was looking for more DRK experience in Savage anyway. Few minutes pass, I Living Dead the stack marker per the standard strats at the time, and we're at that point in the fight where the boss goes to the NE side of the arena and places that MASSIVE tankbuster prey (Last Kiss) on a DPS you need to pass to the OT. However, the WAR isn't there. He's dead. And there's only me, taking double autos after a Demonic Shear tankbuster with another one coming in about twenty seconds. In total, I'm looking at multiple instances of high single target and raid wide damage with no Shadow Wall and no Living Dead.

There's only one option to save the DPS. I go into the marker position to take the prey. The DPS hesitates, I know he was thinking, "This guy is going to die, he can't take all this damage!" But he passes it to me anyway. Sole Survivor procs right after one of the AoE raid wides for some desperately needed health, I throw on Grit and Blood Price, Rampart, Dark Mind, Awareness and just start TBNing everything. AoE casts, I'm fine, TBN'd. The WAR is up at this point to take one set of auto attacks, but it's too late, I already have the prey. Prey explodes with another AoE on top, I'm fine, TBN'd again, Dark Mind coming in hot. Here comes that last tankbuster. Reprisal it! TBN'd I'm fine. This whole time my blood gauge is going wild, I'm just Bloodspilling nonstop from the constant +50 from TBN breaks, I have to BS under Dark Arts to avoid losing too much potency, good thing Syphon Strike gave increased MP under Grit or that would've never been possible. I came out of that fight shaking, people said "jesus christ how did you not die from all that damage when the WAR died."

At this point, I had fallen in love. No other tank would've survived that much burst damage without heavy healing support, but while I was internally freaking out, my character was just "meh, all good, i got it, nothing personal kid." I don't think I even dropped to a 1/3 of my HP. That level of defense, that ability to adapt and for my whole mentality to switch on a dime to pure survival from pure speed, I know I'm romanticizing it, but it was intoxicating, I could not get enough of DRK from that day onward and so I continued to push myself further.

Fast forward to Alphascape, and I've become peak DRK. Coming into the raid tier late after a hiatus, I have many fond memories of planning mitigation maps with my WAR cotank to assure we were maximizing TBN's shielding to reduce tank stance usage, being the 100% go to answer for any magic damage in the tier, getting super into GCD-manipulation with Bloodspiller and planning mana around my NIN's trick attack windows, getting as many DA boosted GCDs inside of it as possible. Researching vods of other DRKs who played a bit differently to get more perspectives. But the person who I really respected was my AST. My AST knew I loved DRK, and unlike the rest of my team, I loved going FAST. That's right, Sanic builds used to exist, I'm talking 2.32 GCD recast WITHOUT Blood Weapon. I came out of Eureka Hydatos with a +400 Skill Speed Relic, I was obsessed with fast. So during Omega M/F prog, the stars aligned, and he gave me an Empowered Arrow under Blood Weapon. I was on fire. My GCD hit the game SkS cap of 1.96 recast. I was pressing buttons so fast, gaining mana so fast, I couldn't even double weave without clipping anymore. MNK GL4 level speed, while I had to move the boss and do tank stuff/ mechanics, and manage my mana, oh man I made mistakes, I clipped for sure, but it was delightful.

DRK's community was a little small and often meme'd on, but it was passionate about the job, passionate about talking about it, spreading the word, making people look at it and say "This isn't for everyone, it's hard to control at first, but if you fall in a specific niche of player, you'll love it, just try it, the skill ceiling is SO high!" And that niche was me in every single facet of the word. I made a lot of DRK friends, anyone remember "DA TBN" and how just saying that would immediately start an argument?

Of course, when we got the first ShB trailer with DRK as the focus job, my brain practically exploded. "THIS IS IT! THE YEAR OF THE DARK KNIGHTS! IT'S HAPPENING!" I was in Vegas at the time, not at Fanfest, but I felt it all the same. We had a whole wave of new people come into the job after seeing that, and we were so glad to teach more players how to play the fastest job in FFXIV. I took a lot of "apprentices", for lack of a better word, people who wanted to see what we saw in DRK, people came to me as someone who really understood it, they wanted to learn. And I got more friends as a result. Months later, Media Tour comes out, YOU CAN SUMMON FRAY, I LITERALLY DREAMED ABOUT THIS, YES YES YES YES YES YES.

But it wouldn't last.

The only reason I have a forum account now was to protest the changes to DRK in ShB when the Media Tour came out. I wrote a lot of posts, detailing the destruction of the MP economy, the removal of being fast, and the worst thing, the Delirium and BW changes. Those topics are deleted now, but I still have writings stored somewhere of those pre-ShB initial thoughts. I had already designed a theoretical opener, and my worst fears were confirmed. WAR's and DRK's GCD rotation and burst timings were practically identical. 4.2 Inner Release had come back, but this time, but as a worse version, removing a skill I really liked, devaluing Bloodspiller as a counter attack gauge dump device, and as a result, making me Dark Warrior. My journey as a tank main had come full circle. I tried to escape Inner Release after it ruined WAR for me, only for it to ruin DRK for me an expansion later. I know how crazy this sounds, but it felt like SE directly said to me, "Stop having fun with this job, we're making it WAR, we know you don't like 4.2 WAR, we don't care, and there's nothing you can do about it. "

People ON THE FORUMS said I was insane at the time for being so reactionary, "just wait and try it" but I knew SE wouldn't change the fundamental overhaul if they had already designed a new job UI and mana "economy" for these changes. FFS, we HAD an ENTIRE section on GNB and how it was different but appealing to a higher skill set of players, other jobs got IN-DEPTH explanations on how the ShB expansion was going to change them, and what did DRK get from the developer team? "Summon your inner darkness!" and that's the last thing we've heard about DRK since. Pre-release ShB about a 2 minute cooldown that does nothing but damage and has no job interactivity. BW bugged and only has 9.66 duration instead of the 11 like new Delirium? Nothing for a year now. No design docs, no acknowledgement from devs about the concerns pre or post release.

So when I loaded up ShB the first day, and I tested my "theoretical totally not final" rotation on a dummy, I knew the dream was dying. Then I swapped to my WAR, did pretty much the exact same button presses, for the same result. Then I knew the dream was dead. So I removed all those greyed out actions off my hotbar on DRK, except for Dark Arts. I placed Dark Arts in a spot on my hotbar I didn't use, because I wanted a reminder that I loved this job at some point in time.

A year later, and I still have that greyed out Dark Arts action sitting there, reminding me of better times. I've tried every job in this game for hours on dummies and in Extremes. Nothing speaks to me the same way. DRK community is fractured, between people who swapped to GNB out of disgust, to people who constantly lament how DRK has devolved in comparison to it's former versions, to newer players who don't really understand why DRK mains are constantly miserable all the time. And that's the people who stayed. Everyone who I personally knew really did become GNB mains or they quit the game entirely. I'm the only DRK left out of my friend group and my FC who hasn't thrown the job stone in the damn trash can. Because I can't give up on it. I've tried to leave, and I can't.

I'm so miserable playing new DRK, it's so boring, it's so slow, but it's effective, and I'm the de facto DRK main, so that's what I do. DRK numbers have never been higher, but I doubt you'll find anyone at a high level say they LOVE the job like how we used to love it back in HW/SB. Every time I press Blood Weapon and the fifth hit fails, ruining what little mana management there is, I get angry because it didn't used to be like that. Every time I burst all my mana in opener, and then do absolutely nothing for 40+ seconds because mana regen is so slow, I get frustrated and bored. And every time I get a WAR co-tank, and our IR burst at 90 seconds looks exactly the same, EXACTLY THE SAME, I just feel empty. I wish I could fill the void with something like Ultimate, but I don't have the time or the confidence.

These constant negative feelings from myself, and other DRK players have made me go from loving XIV, to practically hating it, because the method of which I experience the game's combat mechanics are inherently uninteresting on my favorite job in the franchise. I see no real reason to improve myself as a DRK. Everyone plays the same, which plays the same as WAR. It all relies on crits and just NOT pressing buttons outside of burst, ironically placing us in the same issues as 4.1 WAR with the rotation of 4.2 WAR. The entire job is TBN. Much like how WAR is only Fell Cleave. TBN being so good carries the job to the detriment of the entire job's design.

And chances are, nothing will change this expansion. I can't even hope 6.0 changes things AGAIN. No tanks or healers have gotten any sweeping changes, and tanks in particular have not received a single adjustment in this entire expansion outside the SiO buff and the +5 seconds on the 30% CD. I hope for change, only to be disappointed again and again with silence, not just for me, but for healers and ranged and other tanks. Why does NIN get a rework and SAM a new job element but I can't get Blood Weapon fixed with a 1 second extension? Why won't they say anything? Why did they kill what I liked? Why? It'll be one year since ShB's release this month. And I have to deal with this shadow of another job for another year, at least. I don't want to.

World First UCoB DRK, at the time when the job was at it's worst in SB, when asked, "why did you play DRK, was it for the magic resistance or some other speciifc reason, why over another tank?"
"Because it was fun."

And if you were someone who said "HAHAHAHA DARK ARTS THE DARK ARTS SO FUNNY" and didn't even attempt to play the job
I hate you.

I should've been a PLD main. I wish I never played DRK at all.

Shadowbringers Gunbreaker. Oh, wait...

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Originally Posted by Ririta

ARR summoner
[…]
Scholar
[…]
There are a bunch of extras such as Super Virus, Eye for an Eye, Protect, Stoneskin, Aero... but if I talk about everything I'll exceed the character limit.

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Man, very calm is right. ARR SMN sounds super chill. Sounds like, in that respect, it's kind of in the place BLM is now?
SCH def sounds more compact. Where there just less abilities on your hotbar back then? Or are those just the main ones?

And yeah, if you have more to say and that pesky character limit is getting in your way feel free to make another post. I'd love to hear more.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

2.0 PLD, 1 combo that got used. All the defensive cds.
Made it way easier to call fight mechanics out when you didn't have to focus on a rotation.

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Hahaha considering I started tanking so I could pay attention to my hotbar less and help my group with callouts I can see how ARR's PLD would have been very cool~

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

I appreciate that the first post in this thread is about old DRK. Since there was already a small explanation of how it used to work up above, maybe I could give a more personal story about being a DRK main, rather than just saying "used to be good, is bad now."

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Wow, that was an intense story. Thanks for the really thorough response.
I picked up DRK about 3 weeks before Shadow Bringers dropped, and in that time wasn't able to really play it enough to understand what I was doing. Hearing all this though, perhaps ironically, gives me hope for the future of the job.
I'm sorry to hear that things have fallen so far for you. If you ever try Ultimate or take a break and play PLD let me know how it shakes out for you. Who knows, maybe that's just what you need.
Either way, I'll be rooting for you.

All tanks had a formality of doing like an enmity rotation or two and kicking their tank stance to the curb immediately; as a WAR this felt satisfying but felt awful on the other tanks to have to use a GCD. Don't miss it.

What I did like, as a WAR, is how our self-sustain worked before. Nascent Flash is not a bad action per se, but they took out the healing we had from the old Defiance and tried to streamline it. The overall healing is not bad, but it feels clunky and leaves low level duties feeling hollow. WAR feels very hollow at a low level, even more so than at least GNB or DRK doing 50 stuff which is saying a lot because DRK without TBN is ehhhhh but at least you can enjoy the frequent weaving and MP play.

I think part of it is the fact that, with TP management, we would only do a handful of Overpowers on a pack because we had to be thinking about budgeting our TP, thinking about how much would regen before the next pull. This means we used our 123 combos on trash more, which meant more beast gauge. Mathematically Overpower -> Mythril Tempest is the right thing to do a lot of the time, but it's really boring before we get a trait that allows us to build gauge. Should be a baseline feature.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Man, very calm is right. ARR SMN sounds super chill. Sounds like, in that respect, it's kind of in the place BLM is now?
SCH def sounds more compact. Where there just less abilities on your hotbar back then? Or are those just the main ones?

And yeah, if you have more to say and that pesky character limit is getting in your way feel free to make another post. I'd love to hear more.




Hahaha considering I started tanking so I could pay attention to my hotbar less and help my group with callouts I can see how ARR's PLD would have been very cool~

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Fairy back then used to not take up any space on your hotbar. You see when you have Eos/Selene out there's a hotbar above yours that has stuff like six/stay/whatever. Their abilities used to be on that as well, and you could use them while simultaneously casting. You didn't have to stop. It was perfection.

It was even better because back then, if you told a fairy to do something, they did it with no delay. Maybe a minor delay at worst of like 1 second. And then they decided "what If fairy was completely useless and clunky" at this point its only real use is to be dissipation fodder.

I first played DRK in 4.4. There were things I liked about it, and things I didn't. I liked the speed you got from Blood Weapon, but hated pressing Dark Arts so often. To this day I find myself pressing my DA button before many of my skills, but it doesn't do anything now. I miss the old Darkside.

But even so, DRK is still fun IMO. I dislike the Inner...erm Delirium spam, but that's the only thing I "dislike".

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

2.0 PLD, 1 combo that got used. All the defensive cds.

Made it way easier to call fight mechanics out when you didn't have to focus on a rotation.

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Oh and only one oGCD aoe damage spell, circle of scorn. Spammable aoe, flash, dealt no damage, and this was back when enmity still, sometimes, mattered so you'd occasionally have to cast it a few times in a row to ensure some 'i refuse to use quelling strikes' DD didn't randomly rip and tear one mob off out of no where while everyone else was doing aoe damage lol.

I don't really want the warrior spam of one skill (both magic and physical phase has a repeater move), so that part of the evolution of Paladin I don't really mid if it changes next expansion (I encourage it, if it makes sense/feels better), but in general Paladin's evolution has been fun to watch and I enjoy playing that job quite a bit.

BLM was my bff in 2.x and then 3.0 gave us Enochian. It's not nearly as difficult to keep up with now but when HW launched it was a pain. I switched to healing and haven't mained a DPS class since. I'm not complaining by any means. Enochian made the class more interesting to play and really raised the bar that separates a good BLM from a mediocre one. I just didn't want to deal with it.

mine is Stormblood summoner 4.1 onwards. To be fair its the fixed version of current summoner with a couple of differences:


1) egis existed, I remember how in eureka to put the most extreme scenario they not only could aggro stuff but also if i aggroed stuff accidentally ifrit would slap him once with his ability that also stunned mind you and save me, or in the overworld they could even sometimes deal with the add they aggroed themselves or in hoh with the mamooth that does an aoe that goes through many rooms if i wasnt carefull they could run to go fight them.

Not only that i used to do solo dragon maps as a level 70 with 270 ilvl gear mind you and no bahamut cause titan tanked for me , you also had to take care of them with sustain . not only that currently the best egi imo is titan egi cause he shields you he is perfect for progging but back then we had arguements about garuda and ifrit cause one had physical dmg buffing and garuda had magical , so what they did is fix one and break the other instead of having garuda and ifrit now we have titan and ifrit and garuda appearing only on dungeons. They had character from all this random stuff that happened not only that ghosting was easier to deal with back then cause of sic and order , now its just order, stripped from choices and worsened . They arent companions anymore now they are just toddlers. All that was asked was make garudas auto spells be instacast, it didnt have to be this way

2) The Aetherflow chain was the linchpin of summoner , with it removed everything works against each other. Now nothing makes sense egi abilities work against demi summoning instead of being the thing you depend on to help you survive long enough for the ultimate payout that is Demi bahamut, not only that instead of ruin 4 being a bonus now you dont want to use it during pheonix, youre now screwed every time the boss leaves when trance nears the cooldown . On aetherflow you didnt have that you could control your phases much better, it really felt like you were planning, like you had everything under your control , Control your pets to do you bidding , use their spells early so that when the time comes to use the one spell remaining theyd use it immediately, give no chance for the boss to avoid your spells , play safer at your weakest youre mobile enough to avoid what he throws at you, use devotion for dps or as extra mitigation , use garuda if you re heavy on magic dmg or ifrit if youre more on the physical. people called it like mastering a piano of a rotation that is 2 mins and they were right it was like music , All the choices dripping from the job it was so GOOD and if you managed to pull your music you were rewarded with the best job in this game, The AOE King , the Dps who for 20 seconds had the best dps and utility in the game , Smn with a bahamut out , but if you died if you died at any point you would lose everything you would start worse than if youd reset the fight. That kind of high risk high reward , is the reason i fell in love with smn.


All this though is now gone Bahamut is an egi compared to stormblood bahamut , pheonix is clunky as hell , job is literally a shadow of its former self. here lies stormblood smn may he return in the next expansion

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

I think part of it is the fact that, with TP management, we would only do a handful of Overpowers on a pack

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Oh my god...
I joined so late I didn't have much time to enjoy Stormblood before the next expac dropped so I totally forgot that TP was even a thing!
Though... having to manage enmity (instead of basically just deciding you want it like it works now) AND TP together sounds like a interesting balance.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Fairy back then used to not take up any space on your hotbar. You see when you have Eos/Selene out there's a hotbar above yours that has stuff like six/stay/whatever. Their abilities used to be on that as well, and you could use them while simultaneously casting. You didn't have to stop. It was perfection.

It was even better because back then, if you told a fairy to do something, they did it with no delay.

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Oh, that sounds neat.
I wonder how accessing that pet hotbar worked on a controller.
I'm not gonna lie, as SCH now I never need it so I just have it turned off. If there still is a way to access it on controller I don't know how :P
Also, wait, back that up for a second... the fairies input delay was... added? It sounds like you're saying they added input delay, is that right? W...why would they do that?

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Originally Posted by Bopsheezi

I first played DRK in 4.4. There were things I liked about it, and things I didn't. I liked the speed you got from Blood Weapon, but hated pressing Dark Arts so often. To this day I find myself pressing my DA button before many of my skills, but it doesn't do anything now. I miss the old Darkside.

But even so, DRK is still fun IMO. I dislike the Inner...erm Delirium spam, but that's the only thing I "dislike".

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Hahaha old habits die hard, huh.
Funny how the part you hated ended up going so deep into your muscle memory.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I don't really want the warrior spam of one skill (both magic and physical phase has a repeater move), so that part of the evolution of Paladin I don't really mid if it changes next expansion (I encourage it, if it makes sense/feels better), but in general Paladin's evolution has been fun to watch and I enjoy playing that job quite a bit.

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I agree. I especially like the way it's magic works now.
It's hard to wait for 6.0 because I'm quite eager to see how it's gonna evolve next.

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Originally Posted by KRIPTICON

BLM was my bff in 2.x and then 3.0 gave us Enochian. It's not nearly as difficult to keep up with now but when HW launched it was a pain. I switched to healing and haven't mained a DPS class since. I'm not complaining by any means. Enochian made the class more interesting to play and really raised the bar that separates a good BLM from a mediocre one. I just didn't want to deal with it.

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Huh, that's interesting. How did BLM play before Enochian? I'm having a hard time imagining it without it.
Also, what healers do you like?

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

mine is Stormblood summoner 4.1 onwards. To be fair its the fixed version of current summoner with a couple of differences:

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Wow... I started as SMN and had no idea they had so much solo potential.
If you dig how high risk high reward SMN was do you play a lot of BLM now? Or is that class too different?
I'm honestly quite curious to see what they do with SMN next. That is my most anticipated 6.0 news.

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Originally Posted by Ririta

ARR summoner:

- Always use Aetherflow on cooldown. Gives you 3 stacks of Aetherflow. and some MP.
- Summon your egi. It's probably Garuda, the single target caster pet. Ifrit, the single target attacker pet wasn't too bad if he didn't have to move. Titan for solo so he tanks stuff for you.
- Use Raging Strikes (+20% damage), Spur, Rouse (pet buffs) and Enkindle (pet's mini ultimate ability).
- Set up DOTs. Bio II (35 potency on 30 seconds), Miasma (30 potency on 24 seconds, inflicts disease lowering target's movement and healing), Bio (40 potency on 18 seconds), Shadowflare (25 potency on 30 seconds, was casted on the ground and you could use it as much as you wanted to). If you were good you could keep up Thunder from black mage too (40 potency on 18 seconds).
- If Garuda is out put her on Steady and tell her to use Contagion to extend your powered up DOTs.
- Use Aetherflow on Fester (100 potency per Bio, Bio II and Miasma) or Bane (spreads your basic 3 DOTs to targets nearby and refresh their times). Energy Drain if you really needed MP, or if Aetherflow was coming out of cooldown and Fester was on cooldown.
- Control your pet. Set it to Obey on a target to attack it, set it to Steady before using their abilities while you cast yours so they didn't lose too much time.
- For area damage you used Bane, Miasma II and Tri Disaster (now called Tri Bind).
- Cast Ruin or Ruin II if you don't have to do anything else.

That's it... simplistic but I loved it, very active and at the same time, a very calm gameplay. Later they took away Thunder and allowed us to use Blizzard II from black mage so you used that for area damage.

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The hilarious thing about this post is how you call ARR smn simplistic and calming...because that's exactly how it felt for me as well but the people around me were usually perplexed because for them, smn was just this overly complicated, button bloated job. I mean, they were probably right about that last part but to me, playing smn was like playing a piano at different tempo.

Started at 2.0 (ARR launch), favorite became HW DRK. Everything flowed so perfectly, everything worked in harmony. Dark Arts was used for a very few amount of moves, Parrying would allow the use of Reprisal (used to be exclusively DRK move), critting would allow Low Blow (another former DRK exclusive) to come off cooldown so we could spam it for damage, we had a DoT, a second combo that specialized in doing damage, a constant MP degen going with Darkside so we had to balance using MP and keeping it up constantly, Abyssal Drain was a GCD AoE you could spam for HP when you needed to (but it still sucked out a lot of MP), and cooldowns for days, you could always have 1-2 going at any time. Oh the glory days of DRK, how I miss you so...but then it because that travesty and trash that was SB DRK with the DA spam that was so unfun and annoying, all while SE removed all that made DRK great to give WAR and PLD moves they never needed to begin with. I'm glad DRK is in a better spot now thanks to the changes for ShB, but man do I miss HW DRK.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Man, very calm is right. ARR SMN sounds super chill. Sounds like, in that respect, it's kind of in the place BLM is now?
SCH def sounds more compact. Where there just less abilities on your hotbar back then? Or are those just the main ones?

And yeah, if you have more to say and that pesky character limit is getting in your way feel free to make another post. I'd love to hear more.

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Compact in terms of healing, I meant. Because we branched off a DPS class, most of our healing abilities came from the few job quests that we had between 30 and 50. It was only: Lustrate, Adloquium, Succor, Leeches (Esuna), Physick, Ressurrection... and that's it. Plus Eos' 3 cooldowns if we count her as us. Want to fill everybody's HP quickly? Hope you didn't spend Eos' healing increase and AoE HOT cooldowns... otherwise, you'll have a hard time. I believe every scholar who was left to heal alone in Titan Hard learned this quickly haha.

Maybe I was just messy, but because I didn't like using the bar I binded the fairies' abilities together with my own. So I had to use 2 bars and a half of stuff. In general, the first one I left the healing stuff, the second one, DPS stuff, with the same layout as summoner plus Embrace and Lustrate. Then on the third, pet stuff: summon, their cooldowns and Swiftcast to get them quickly. One silly thing that I loved was how long the summon cast was. I think it was 8 seconds? It's stupid, but I liked the "investment" that was getting your pet out... while, of course, you get the cute orbs around you.

Summoner was chill but by chill, I mean ultra chill. Maybe even too much? Unlike today's black mage, you didn't care about anything... boss is no longer targettable? No problem, you're not in a hurry. And you didn't have to keep any job mechanic up so... there's no rush to do anything. Just refresh your DOTs, cast your Ruins, use your stacks. Maybe I'm exaggerating because I played it so much that I got used to all the timings and such, but in general, you never really felt punished by anything. Not even death really punished you... get raised, just pop up an Aetherflow, do an Energy Drain or two to get MP, summon your pet and you're back in action.

As for little extras that didn't super make the job, but was fun to have:

Eye for an Eye on the tank, to reduce the physical damage they took by roughly 10%.
Ressurrect people. Still around, but it was more important because white mages just couldn't spare too much MP.
Addle was Supervirus. Extremely valuable when used by summoner and scholar because it lowered 15% INT and STR (other classes only lowered STR). And was it good... so good that they nerfed it in 2.1 so when you put it on an enemy, nobody could put it again for 60 seconds. People coordinated those Virus so the tank could survive punishing mechanics such as Twintania's Death Sentence, a tank buster that was absurdly strong at the time.

Due to the nature of summoner DPS, they were absurdly strong in the first raid we got, the first Coil. First boss splits itself in two? Keep your DOTs on both of them! Third boss is a series of enemies? Keep your stuff on all of them. Even the ones that reflected damage back at you! Twintania summons a bunch of things? DOT. Them. Up. Summoner (and scholar, by extension) was just... ridiculous with their DOTs. Every time you could DOT more than one thing, your DPS rose exponentially. They trivialized even a wipe mechanic - on Coil's last boss (Twintania), occasionaly she would summon a Dreadknight thing that slowly marched on the direction of a marked player to kill them. The common strat was naturally to stun him and... summoner/scholar to do their rotation on them. Because of the disease aspect of the Miasma, it became be so slow that as long as people stayed somewhat away from the middle, they wouldn't die.

A similar thing happened in Turn 2 of Second Coil, where you had face & petrify a slow moving add so they don't one shot people, and then a marked person runs behind the petrified add so they didn't petrify everybody. I imagine that the idea was to petrify the add when possible and then the raid adjusted accordingly. But then people discovered that you just make the summoner aggro the add, position it in line with the boss and completely stop it with Miasma. So nobody has to move... trivializing the mechanic.

One last thing that I forgot to mention... summoner and scholar pets acted like characters of their own.They could get hit by mechanics, you had to put them out of harm's way... or abuse this fact by using them to do the mechanic for you hahaha. In Twintania there was a mechanic where you had to stack to soak a fireball that did a lot of damage. But you couldn't stack too many people or else another mechanic became stronger. So what people did? Stack pets on off tank. Whoever gets the marker should stack with the pets. They took reduced damage from AoE, so it was easier to cheese the mechanic this way.

The reduced damage also allowed us to completely trivialize Ramuh extreme. His main mechanic tankbuster was an area effect damage on the tank... players thought, if the tank was Titan egi? Suddenly, the mechanic was much easier to deal with! And of course, the healers healed the tank... that was your chicken nugget. It was funny and fun, but sadly got nerfed.

I loved how the pets could be both an asset and a hidrance.

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The hilarious thing about this post is how you call ARR smn simplistic and calming...because that's exactly how it felt for me as well but the people around me were usually perplexed because for them, smn was just this overly complicated, button bloated job. I mean, they were probably right about that last part but to me, playing smn was like playing a piano at different tempo.

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Yeah, it's kinda weird. It's probably because when using actions we had massive freedom compared to other jobs that were limited by combos and such.

WHM. It didnt used to have this pointless lily system. I wish they'd rework it or remove it.
Instead of giving us 3 lilies spaced out over 30seconds of in-combat time only, just give us the abilities that are tied to the timer but put them on a charge based cooldown similar to True North/En avant/etc. And then have that charge restore itself over time just like the rest. It's essentially the same idea just in a different way.

The lily system bugs me to no end... Its a pointless thing when charged based actions exist and are much easier and simpler in design. They would suffice just as well. I'd rather have the actions that use a lily be available at the start of the battle rather than 30secs in. By then half the fight is done in the time it takes me to generate a lily (ie. charge). By the time I have a lily available for use, Ive forgotten it even exists and have moved on to another action instead (ie, cure2 or Medica2 in place of afflatus Solace/Rapture). Even though it cost me MP, atleast I could use it when I need/want to, instead of forgetting its there because I have to "wait" for it.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Wow... I started as SMN and had no idea they had so much solo potential.
If you dig how high risk high reward SMN was do you play a lot of BLM now? Or is that class too different?
I'm honestly quite curious to see what they do with SMN next. That is my most anticipated 6.0 news.

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its a different flavour of risk reward , one that requires positioning rather than planning , it has sustain dmg instead of burst phases. an uncomplicated rotation instead of a complicated one, and even a different kind of mobility to compliment an always cast mentality .im pretty sure i could get good and it would be fun to play blm but im dedicated to smn because its my first job but also cause the lore of summoning or to be more specific arcanima is also extremely good , coincidentaly i also liked sch and it was also ruined.

I like SMN as it is now. The only change I think it needs is to its base class of Arcanist for new players. Arcanists first pet is a bit annoying at level 1-15 because you start with Emerald Carby and that has no single target functionality anymore, its base attacks are aoes so they can easily get you into sticky situations at low level that you may not be ready for. If anything they should just swap Emerald and Topaz now so you have a single target pet to start with.

Otherwise I love the rotation that they've come up with for summoner's many pets. It works, and really only needs minor tweaks in my opinion. I love it so much it quickly became my new main.

Well my favourite ARR and beyond job is RDM... so it plays exactly like it did on day one of SB.

My favourite job before that was BLM which all the way back in 1.0 played more like it does in FFXI where you picked the best damaging spell for the situation. The astral fire and umbral ice rotation where you switched between burn and recovery phases didn't exist. And before even that, BLM was the Conjurer class and the supreme solo-er. (yes I know it is the advanced job of the THM, I'm talking from before they added jobs.) They had all the elemental nukes, heals, and buffs which made them a one-lala AoE wrecking crew.

"Huh, that's interesting. How did BLM play before Enochian? I'm having a hard time imagining it without it.
Also, what healers do you like?"

Principal was basically the same. Cast fire spells till you're out of MP then blizzard into your umbral phase and throw out a thunder while your MP regens but the rotation was simpler. Still had firestarter and thundercloud but you couldn't force a proc like you can now.

I'm liking AST since the post expansion changes that were made. I find WHM to be really bland in comparison but that's also because it's been my main for 3 expansions and I'm bored of it. Don't like the way SCH plays at all in ShB.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Huh, that's interesting. How did BLM play before Enochian? I'm having a hard time imagining it without it.
Also, what healers do you like?

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Pretty much exactly like they do now at level 50. Fire 3 - Fire 1 spam until oom - Blizzard 3 - Thunder 3 - Blizzard 1 if needed to fill mp still - Repeat. It was the simplest dps job in 2.0 by far.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

snip

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I feel this hard we have almost the same story, after hw I was salty about the drk changes so I moved onto WAR and really enjoyed it until 4.2 when the IR change happened, so I U-Turned back to drk which at this point had seen adjustment + I had a cooler head so I actually saw the fun in the new design and as you said got into gcd manipulation going into alphascape for some big returns. Then 5.0 BAM WE HEAR YOU LIKE IR SO IMMA PUT IT ON DRK.

I feel you on the feeling lost with classes thing too, every one of my favourite jobs playstyle has been patched out the game at this point, and I can just about enjoy GNB for tanking, but I can't get along with anything else anymore quite as much as I used to. Its weird to say, but theres not really any jank anymore in class designs, not like bad jank like monk anatman jank, but sorta janky playstlyes like guass barrel mch and dark arts drk or tornado kick rotation where its jank in the way that its different and takes some getting used to cos it doesnt behave like anything else and is a bit counter intuitive. But I suppose this is just the direction the games going in at this point. I kinda hope they stop removing different playstyles from the game going forward somehow, almost like different "specs" for the job, but the balance team is pushed enough as it is I guess.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm glad DRK is in a better spot now thanks to the changes for ShB, but man do I miss HW DRK.

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Man, I didn't realize so many role actions came from DRK.
And it had a dot too? Sounds like they hit a bullseye with that design right on release.

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Originally Posted by Ririta

[snip]

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Ooh, a compact kit, I getcha.
And honestly, I'm really hankering for a chill class right now.
I thought I'd try BLM because it's got pretty low actions per minute, but it's hitting different.
I wish I could have tried the old SMN.
And thanks for sharing your stories. It was really fun to read the impact SMN/SCH had on the meta.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

WHM. It didnt used to have this pointless lily system.

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Which was your favorite iteration of WHM?

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

im pretty sure i could get good and it would be fun to play blm but im dedicated to smn because its my first job but also cause the lore of summoning or to be more specific arcanima is also extremely good

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Hey, I feel that. SMN was my first class too.
Have fun~

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Originally Posted by Vespar

Otherwise I love the rotation that they've come up with for summoner's many pets. It works, and really only needs minor tweaks in my opinion. I love it so much it quickly became my new main.

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I'm with you there. Making the pets a GCD feels so much better. I personally hope they continue to expand our relationship with the egi.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Well my favourite ARR and beyond job is RDM... so it plays exactly like it did on day one of SB.
My favourite job before that was BLM which all the way back in 1.0 played more like it does in FFXI

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Has RDM really changed so little?
Dang, they must have really found a good groove for that class~
Glad to hear they're preserving everything you love about it.
Wait, BLM had heals way back then? Huh... that sort of puts into perspective for me why some want them to give BLM a resurrection spell.

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Originally Posted by KRIPTICON

Principal was basically the same. Cast fire spells till you're out of MP then blizzard into your umbral phase and throw out a thunder while your MP regens but the rotation was simpler. Still had firestarter and thundercloud but you couldn't force a proc like you can now.

I'm liking AST since the post expansion changes that were made. I find WHM to be really bland in comparison but that's also because it's been my main for 3 expansions and I'm bored of it. Don't like the way SCH plays at all in ShB.

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BLM's rotation was simpler before you could force procs?
Man, that's not something I would have expected at all.
Which ShB changes do you think helped AST the most?
Honestly, I love it, but I'm too bad of a healer to play it. I just eat through all my MP and we wipe :D

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Pretty much exactly like they do now at level 50. Fire 3 - Fire 1 spam until oom - Blizzard 3 - Thunder 3 - Blizzard 1 if needed to fill mp still - Repeat. It was the simplest dps job in 2.0 by far.

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Hahaha and look at it now. Man things have changed.
I don't know about you, but I find that while it's not hard to play BLM, it's pretty challenging to play it well.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I feel this hard we have almost the same story, after hw I was salty about the drk changes so I moved onto WAR and really enjoyed it until 4.2 when the IR change happened, so I U-Turned back to drk which at this point had seen adjustment + I had a cooler head so I actually saw the fun in the new design and as you said got into gcd manipulation going into alphascape for some big returns. Then 5.0 BAM WE HEAR YOU LIKE IR SO IMMA PUT IT ON DRK.

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By that summation I gather the wheel is about to turn again and DRK will be back in your courts in 6.0.
Good luck~