New PF Duty Complete Setting suggestion

Seems like there are a lot of issues with PF duty complete where many players don't know mechanics or fail to easy mechancis. A suggestion is to require players to complete said duty 5 times or more to be able to join the duty complete group. Maybe that will ensure more players who are pugging to be familiar with the mechanics?

Destiny 2's raid community does this and it doesn't help at all. All it does is gatekeep people with lives who don't have time to clear every week and eventually push them out of the community once the "usual" clear requirement starts increasing to a point that they can't keep up with.

If you get a baddie in your duty complete PF group, kick and replace. Easy.

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Originally Posted by Seddrinth

Seems like there are a lot of issues with PF duty complete where many players don't know mechanics or fail to easy mechancis. A suggestion is to require players to complete said duty 5 times or more to be able to join the duty complete group. Maybe that will ensure more players who are pugging to be familiar with the mechanics?

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ya... no. One huge reason i quit WoW and stop doing endgame in ff11 is this mindset. no one is 1000% perfect. you can run a piece of content 10000 times and still maybe mess up 1 - 2 times.

only wait to fix this is do content with a set group of ppl. like make end endgame linkshell/ fellowship.

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Originally Posted by Yue_Amariyo

ya... no. One huge reason i quit WoW and stop doing endgame in ff11 is this mindset. no one is 1000% perfect. you can run a piece of content 10000 times and still maybe mess up 1 - 2 times.

only wait to fix this is do content with a set group of ppl. like make end endgame linkshell/ fellowship.

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Oh no we are not talking about people messing up 1 or 2 times. There are people who got carried to clears while failing mechanics that are now able to join PF farm groups. I'm talking about the savage PF pugs. People messing up f14 on Ramuh, tornado e7s, LR shiva, icelit, etc. Just because they've been carried to a clear doesn't mean they know the fight well enough to consider it on farm. So we just want to protect our playerbase from these guys griefing the raiding population. We want a positive community not people trolling groups. And honestly I don't think there's any negative to a system that encourages people to join learning parties to get better. We are not being toxic but trying to be helpful to everyone.

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Originally Posted by ArchlordPie

Destiny 2's raid community does this and it doesn't help at all. All it does is gatekeep people with lives who don't have time to clear every week and eventually push them out of the community once the "usual" clear requirement starts increasing to a point that they can't keep up with.

If you get a baddie in your duty complete PF group, kick and replace. Easy.

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It just waste a lot of times. Generally we are pretty forgiving if people make one or two mistakes. They get the benefit of the doubt and the groups are able to get the reclear done. But you have people who fail every single time so each pull you will waste for example 6-7 minutes or 10-11 minutes depending on the fight and they will troll you and wipe the raid. If we are nice and give them 3-4 chances just in case they are having an off day, that ends up being half an hour or an hour of 7 other people's times. By the time we realize there's a trap and kick them we already waste a lot of time and effort finding out.

I understand why it's annoying to get yet another player who got carried and wipes the raid because they have no idea what they're supposed to do. Seen that a lot, escpecially now that we're mid-tier and many good players unsubed.
Best thing to do is look them up, if all they have is carry kills you can chose to kick them or let them stay but keep a close eye on them and kick them if they continously cause problems.

The problem with adding more and more requirements is that it's still easy to bypass them. People would know that many add a "killed boss 5 times" requirement so clear parties will reclear-spam in order for everyone to get their 5 kills and be done with it. There is no absolute solution to filtering out bads from the start. In PF that's mostly your own responsibility.
You can set ilvl higher and add duty complete requirement but beyond that it's best to look them up and gauge what you will most likely deal with.

People repeatedly failing mechanics and wiping the whole raid in a reclear party is the reason more and more "x fails = kick" parties pop up. Those parties may come across as arrogant and elitist but they have a point and maybe that's a temporary solution for you until you know more people who can reliably clear fights.

I wish I could select an option that allows me to pick how many times someone has cleared to be able to join. Clearing x amount times is far from perfect but more gate keeping clear parties would be nice. X fail then kick groups sre nice though.

Like it isn't already enough a pain to find a training group able to reach the part of the fight you want to see more, you would have to find after that several of them being able to finish the whole thing ? Most people would get so mad that i can already see the RMT making offers for that, "get your 5 clears super fast and join farming groups now ! Contact us on the following discord !" XD

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Originally Posted by Seddrinth

There are people who got carried to clears while failing mechanics that are now able to join PF farm groups.

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If people can get carried to one clear, they can get carried to 5, or 10, etc.

Just keep filtering them out until you find better ones, or like others said, get your own regular group.

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Originally Posted by Seddrinth

Oh no we are not talking about people messing up 1 or 2 times. There are people who got carried to clears while failing mechanics that are now able to join PF farm groups. I'm talking about the savage PF pugs. People messing up f14 on Ramuh, tornado e7s, LR shiva, icelit, etc. Just because they've been carried to a clear doesn't mean they know the fight well enough to consider it on farm. So we just want to protect our playerbase from these guys griefing the raiding population. We want a positive community not people trolling groups. And honestly I don't think there's any negative to a system that encourages people to join learning parties to get better. We are not being toxic but trying to be helpful to everyone.

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again that is a bad mindset to have, kick the person and form an Endgame LS for future runs. Not everyone who flubs mechanics is there to be carried or is griefing. Thisa community suffered from assiptionitis.. i swear. gate keeping helps no one. Just makes people feel they cant get stuff done. A lot of ppl stop doing endgame in MMO because of drama lamas and ridiculous gate keeping.

set up a 3 wipe rule, add people whp was helpful to flist/ ls and form connections. funny enough early ff11 didnt really have this issue as the team leader would explain the fight/content and tell ppl what to do/ where to go.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

I understand why it's annoying to get yet another player who got carried and wipes the raid because they have no idea what they're supposed to do. Seen that a lot, escpecially now that we're mid-tier and many good players unsubed.
Best thing to do is look them up, if all they have is carry kills you can chose to kick them or let them stay but keep a close eye on them and kick them if they continously cause problems.

The problem with adding more and more requirements is that it's still easy to bypass them. People would know that many add a "killed boss 5 times" requirement so clear parties will reclear-spam in order for everyone to get their 5 kills and be done with it. There is no absolute solution to filtering out bads from the start. In PF that's mostly your own responsibility.
You can set ilvl higher and add duty complete requirement but beyond that it's best to look them up and gauge what you will most likely deal with.

People repeatedly failing mechanics and wiping the whole raid in a reclear party is the reason more and more "x fails = kick" parties pop up. Those parties may come across as arrogant and elitist but they have a point and maybe that's a temporary solution for you until you know more people who can reliably clear fights.

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x fails = kick is what the JP do from what im seeing. they do content differently. no herp derp u got carry. just droping and reforming. no hurt feelings. they have trolls, but they nip them in the bud fast.

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Originally Posted by Yue_Amariyo

x fails = kick is what the JP do from what im seeing. they do content differently. no herp derp u got carry. just droping and reforming. no hurt feelings. they have trolls, but they nip them in the bud fast.

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JP servers can be far worse when it comes to mocking snd avoiding players that they consider trash. The community is just not vocal in the moment about it.

5 Duty's complete means very little. There's a surprising number of players with 10+ clears all at 9th percentile or below. I've taken to checking the group leader on a certain website at the very least before joining any group and I've avoided everything from 3k dps healers, 9k sams, and players not using 6-7 key oGcd's. In Savage, with multiple clears.

I don't want to be fussy and I'd actually like to help people, but the game goes out of it's way to make that impossible. Mentioning logs, dps or indepth analysis and key points of rotation is taking a risk at a ban. Sure, some are there for the free ride and don't care, but you have the ps4 players who have no idea and connect "I've cleared Savage 11 times" as meaning they must be doing great.

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Originally Posted by Awha

JP servers can be far worse when it comes to mocking snd avoiding players that they consider trash. The community is just not vocal in the moment about it.

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Every server has their trolls. But ive played mainly with JP in ff11 and now on ff14 with my new main. Havent ran into issues. All communities like this, but NA is too vocal about it in the moment which is bad. JP keep the mocking/ blacklisting to black list in game and off sites. And most of it is justified outside of trolls being trolls.

stuff they blacklist is: recording runs/content with out permission, not blocking names, purposely wasting time, not following instructions.

their meta is to do pf for learning/ df for clears. Set up groups for savage.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I wish I could select an option that allows me to pick how many times someone has cleared to be able to join. Clearing x amount times is far from perfect but more gate keeping clear parties would be nice. X fail then kick groups sre nice though.

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That sounds like a good way to punish people that don't have a static and can only get clears by struggling through PUGs.

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Originally Posted by Yue_Amariyo

Every server has their trolls. But ive played mainly with JP in ff11 and now on ff14 with my new main. Havent ran into issues. All communities like this, but NA is too vocal about it in the moment which is bad. JP keep the mocking/ blacklisting to black list in game and off sites. And most of it is justified outside of trolls being trolls.

stuff they blacklist is: recording runs/content with out permission, not blocking names, purposely wasting time, not following instructions.

their meta is to do pf for learning/ df for clears. Set up groups for savage.

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As I said they could be worse granted evert community has trolls, overall my experience was on JP servers was pleasent, but ran into drama regarding people mocked for poor damage across the entire data center, people would allow this player to join just to make fun of them on stream. JP community can be far more petty. No server is perfect but the cases on JP from my experience are far more extreme then on NA. Imo

Tbh I never understood the mind some people have when they say JP servers are so much better, maybe it is because I know the language, but I often see what they say about non JP players in their closed communities. Personally face value things might be nicer but behind the scenes it gets bad. Though overall my experience has alwags been positive.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

That sounds like a good way to punish people that don't have a static and can only get clears by struggling through PUGs.

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Not a 100% certain how it punishes people just gives players more control over who they allow in their PF, while using in game methods and tools. I mean when I set up PFs for certain content I already check peoples logs, having a x amount of clears required would speed things up a tad.

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Originally Posted by Yue_Amariyo

again that is a bad mindset to have, kick the person and form an Endgame LS for future runs. Not everyone who flubs mechanics is there to be carried or is griefing. Thisa community suffered from assiptionitis.. i swear. gate keeping helps no one. Just makes people feel they cant get stuff done. A lot of ppl stop doing endgame in MMO because of drama lamas and ridiculous gate keeping.

set up a 3 wipe rule, add people whp was helpful to flist/ ls and form connections. funny enough early ff11 didnt really have this issue as the team leader would explain the fight/content and tell ppl what to do/ where to go.

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Gatekeeping is what keeps people out of places they shouldn't be and it's very much a helpful thing when it's used in moderation.

The very idea of PF tags like [Practice] and [Duty complete] as well as player-made distinctions like "this is not LR prog" means you're drawing a line in the sand and saying "this is the level of experience and competence I expect" which (if people listen to what's being said and don't join things they shouldn't) saves everyone from a lot of conflict.

Not every group in PF wants to carry someone who scraped by their first clear by the luck of being in a solid group and healers who were generous with covering up for their mistakes. This would be less of an issue if the game gave players feedback about their performance so they would understand that they need to do better to not be s burden next time around but instead every instance is just pass/fail unless you go searching for third party tools.

The more communication and distinction available in the creation of PF groups the better. I would be most interested in having a [Duty Complete] as we do now and then some other tag to signify 5, 10, whatever number of clears. That way party leaders can better craft the groups they want without needing to put in a bunch of time to recruiting, vetting and inviting people to a cwls/discord/whatever.