BLM Raise.

If BLM want a Raise spell I think they should have one. I'd give them Convert back and make that their Raise Spell. Give it a CD or make it not work below 50% or 25% health and there you go.

BLM's only concern should be killing things faster. That's the kind of job they are supposed to be. More DPS, no support.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

If BLM want a Raise spell I think they should have one. I'd give them Convert back and make that their Raise Spell. Give it a CD or make it not work below 50% or 25% health and there you go.

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It’s not apart of their lore... so no

Also BLM has no MP economy to worry about, so any Raise spell would not have that limitation as it does with RDM/SMN.

Not every caster needs a raise, and I hope the next one doesn't have one either.

........No

A Raise on Black Mage would be comically overpowered. Imagine, in a prog setting, you could Triple Cast Raise and have full MP back two seconds later. That'd all but guarantee the job for prog.

I'd sooner take a trait that gives fire 1 and blizzard 1 a zero cast time over raise. My only objective as BLM is to do damage.

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Originally Posted by JowyAtreides

I'd sooner take a trait that gives fire 1 and blizzard 1 a zero cast time over raise. My only objective as BLM is to do damage.

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Oooo, that sounds nice, now I want it.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Also BLM has no MP economy to worry about, so any Raise spell would not have that limitation as it does with RDM/SMN.

Not every caster needs a raise, and I hope the next one doesn't have one either.

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It's almost like DPS raises should have a high cooldown or something and be thrown into the role section.

Or just get rid of them.

So we can stop having this conversation.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

It's almost like DPS raises should have a high cooldown or something and be thrown into the role section.

Or just get rid of them.

So we can stop having this conversation.

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I disagree.

I don't see why it is an issue at all that some have raises and some don't, offset by the cost of the raise, and according to job identity.

I enjoy being able to chain rez as a RDM, and I have no interest at all in being obligated to raise others as a BLM.

Or maybe we can just stick all abilities into Role actions and pretend Jobs don't exist?

Black Mage does too much damage to be allowed to have a Rez.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

Black Mage does too much damage to be allowed to have a Rez.

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Laughs in SMN

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Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono

Laughs in SMN

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Laughs at ur unoriginality

Not every class needs a raise just like every class does not need a dot.

Resurrection-jutsu for my Nin or i'll fite you.

Not everyone needs a raise lol.

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Originally Posted by AbelArchaniEA

Laughs at ur unoriginality

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They aren't wrong though. Summoner deals more damage on a given average while having utility in both Devotion and Raise. It's also by far the most mobile of all three Casters.

Give Bard a raise while you're at it, so I can resurrect people with my angelic singing voice. I've been told I sound like a combination of Fergie and Jesus.

http://www.sharegif.com/wp-content/u...ers-quotes.gif

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Originally Posted by AbelArchaniEA

Laughs at ur unoriginality

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Oh, man, you really got me.
Too bad SMN is still too strong to be bringing both a raise, a party wide buff, freebie heals, and a multitude of instant casts.
And no, Pet clunk, ghosted actions, or any other issues doesn't justify it's current position.

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Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono

Oh, man, you really got me.
Too bad SMN is still too strong to be bringing both a raise, a party wide buff, freebie heals, and a multitude of instant casts.
And no, Pet clunk, ghosted actions, or any other issues doesn't justify it's current position.

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If a bad job design would justify bonker DPS, Monk would be above the skies.

To remain on the topic, no, BLM doesn't need raise.
If RDM and SMN can cast a raise, that's because they can cast white magic aswell as black magic. From all the FF point, Yuna, Eiko, Garnet, Rydia... Sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes both...
Design wise, BLM technically has infinite MP and triple instant cast. That combo would be stronger than RDM who just runs out of MP after triple raising.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

It's almost like DPS raises should have a high cooldown or something and be thrown into the role section.

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Anyone who has had to wait for Angel's Whisper to come off cooldown can point out why this sucks.

BLM doesn't need a Raise. Honestly, they could probably Solo most things in the game if you gave them back Drain so HP ceases to be a problem because their DPS would be healing. Throw in Erase too while you're at it and they don't need Esuna.

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Originally Posted by Leidolf

Anyone who has had to wait for Angel's Whisper to come off cooldown can point out why this sucks..

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What, that you couldn't spam raises?

What a shocking concept.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

What, that you couldn't spam raises?

What a shocking concept.

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You speak as though the majority have the spell, but that's not the point.

The point is that if you increased the cooldown, which sucks, and made it a Role Action, you essential cripple the other two Magical Ranged DPS and the fact that they sacrifice their DPS for the sake of having self-sustain... well, for RDM anyway. Physick sucks for a SMN and Titan doesn't Tank anymore. They can't let them keep their regular raising skills because you can't give Magical Ranged DPS two different raising abilities when even the Healers don't have that.

If they were going to let BLMs get anything like that, they wouldn't have gotten rid of Drain and Erase in the first place for the sake of balance.

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Originally Posted by Leidolf

You speak as though the majority have the spell, but that's not the point.

The point is that if you increased the cooldown, which sucks, and made it a Role Action, you essential cripple the other two Magical Ranged DPS.

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Summoner isn't going to suffer in the least for losing it. Red Mage will need a buff as compensation, Summoner a minute one, probably just restoring the DoT potency they lost.

"Cripple" is such an over exaggeration.

SE should just introduce another non-resser caster to accompany blm on the non ress caster group instead of giving raise to blm which is out of lore bound... :D

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

It's almost like DPS raises should have a high cooldown or something and be thrown into the role section.

Or just get rid of them.

So we can stop having this conversation.

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you mean Angel Whisper...?
imagine case on 2 dps dead, and all the ress is accidentally casted to only 1 dps...
2nd dead dps will need to wait for another 5 mins to be ressed... which is suck...

it could work on blu (?), because all 8 pt member supposed to have it on their hotbar, (so you have more chance to ress the dead)
but on standard setting where usually only 2 healer have ress (or maybe 3: 2 healer and 1 smn/rdm), accidental wrong ress, or death wile ress on cooldown, will have severe impact...

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Originally Posted by Kokonji

SE should just introduce another non-resser caster to accompany blm on the non ress caster group instead of giving raise to blm which is out of lore bound... :D



you mean Angel Whisper...?
imagine case on 2 dps dead, and all the ress is accidentally casted to only 1 dps...
2nd dead dps will need to wait for another 5 mins to be ressed... which is suck...

it could work on blu (?), because all 8 pt member supposed to have it on their hotbar, (so you have more chance to ress the dead)
but on standard setting where usually only 2 healer have ress (or maybe 3: 2 healer and 1 smn/rdm), accidental wrong ress, or death wile ress on cooldown, will have severe impact...

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I fail to see why having just a small amount of coordination should be discouraged.

Don't know what everyone's talking about BLM having Infinite MP to raise with. If you go with my suggestion with Convert now raising it wouldn't take mp to raise to begin with. Convert would take 25% of your HP to give to the dead person. Which is why I said make it unusable at 25% or 50%. Then the BLM can only raise 2 or 3 times just like RDMs. Odds are to that if they do use Convert to raise the next big party wide AoE might just kill the BLM. So it would be a risk reward thing.

Most likely next expansion casters will lose their GCD raises and it will become a role action with a CD for the entire casting role. This way jobs like RDM and SMN can be balanced for their DPS and buff contribution alongside BLM and not have a factor in decision making when it comes to prog with raises. Caster raises might also get deleted entirely as well, but I think expecting casters to raise is something we've grown use to so it'll most likely just be a role action.

It is silly that BLM being the job that's the most involved to optimize around for similar damage potential to SMN doesn't come with a raise and as such, SMN is pretty much always a better pick.

I don't think BLM is ever getting raise, it's just how the caster being designed. Or else they will be another monotone role which is probably not gonna be welcomed... i'd say there's more chace caster lose raise altogether xp

BLM neither needs nor should be given a raise. Between the two healers in a party and the potential RDM or SMN raises are already plentiful.

The only reason SMN can ress is because SCH and SMN were tied together with one base class. Since ACN gained ress, it made no sense to suddenly delete it from the hotbar once they become SMN as it was an ACN skill originally who learned how to ress. It's a ACN problem which can't be fixed unless SCH becomes an independent job at lv 30 away from ACN. Unfortunately, too much lore has interwoven those two jobs so it isn't easy for SE to split them again. It's also why people complained why ACN can learn Energy Drain, but SCH suddenly forgets the skill after a job change when it was a core component to ACN and SCH should have been an extension to ACN with a healing oriented focus in tactics.

For RDM, they have white magic. Even then, it took them lv 54 to learn ver cure and another expansion worth of content (lv 64) to learn ver raise.

BLM doesn't have any reason to logically get a raise. They are diametrically opposed to WHM to deal more damage so it makes no sense from both a lore point and gameplay point. They also have infinite MP too and HP is of no consequence due to healers adjusting to heal damage anyway. Had they gotten an external utility to help the party like a ress for the sake of having utility, then their damage will have to take a huge nosedive to compensate. The reason why BLM and SAM do such high damage is exactly because they give no external utility to the party - their utility is their DPS.

I don't think BLM should get a Raise at all. That would spit in the face of the job's history throughout the series as a pure offensive caster. I could see BLM getting a souped-up Drain back for self-healing while leveling/soloing, or arguments for BLM to get some kind of enemy vulnerability debuff (and even that would be met with resistance, given its current "high damage for low utility" position in the party), but Raise is completely out of the question.

To be honest, I'm even on the fence about ACN/SMN keeping Resurrect. There's nothing saying SCH couldn't "retroactively" get Resurrect as a Level 12 action only while wearing their Job Crystal; the faerie summons and Whispering Dawn already work the same way, and literally all of the other spells it "shares" with ACN already have separate IDs (just look at your Actions menu as a SCH, Resurrect is the only one listed under Class), so that connection isn't even a solid justification for ACN/SMN to keep it. I understand the practical purpose of giving rezzes to DPS, in case one or both healer(s) die, but justifying it for multiple DPS jobs in a single role is really why the whole discussion of giving one to BLM comes up in the first place. That being said, Summoner's history throughout the series is wishy-washy on whether its own magic is more oriented towards healing (Yuna, Eiko) or damage (Rydia), so there's some small precedent for keeping it.

RDM should keep Verraise for all the same reasons BLM shouldn't get it -- the job's history throughout the series as a hybrid means RDM should get a strong party utility related to healing, and while Vercure has niche uses, they're largely self-serving; Verraise is where RDM's heritage as a healer-hybrid truly shines. That being said, I'm not against Verraise getting some limitations in exchange for more output given to the RDM, in the event having 3-5 extra rezzes on-demand isn't strictly necessary.

I'm also all for getting a 4th caster that doesn't have anything to do with raising, such as GEO, so that BLM doesn't feel left out in that regard; at the very least the argument that "BLM is the only caster without a rez" would die down if there were as many without as there were with one.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

I don't think BLM should get a Raise at all. That would spit in the face of the job's history throughout the series as a pure offensive caster..

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Everyone is historically capable of throwing a Phoenix Down.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Everyone is historically capable of throwing a Phoenix Down.

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Yup but that’s out of combat in this game so gg

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Everyone is historically capable of throwing a Phoenix Down.

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Ignoring that Phoenix Downs exist already in 14 (which every suggestion for a Chemist healer seems to but I digress), by that logic, why not just give a raise to everyone - Tanks, Melee, Ranged. Hell, let 'em all throw Potions and Ethers at allies while we're at it. Put healers out of a job completely.

It's not a job skill, it's a non-exclusive item, doesn't count, don't be pedantic.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

Ignoring that Phoenix Downs exist already in 14 (which every suggestion for a Chemist healer seems to but I digress), by that logic, why not just give a raise to everyone - Tanks, Melee, Ranged. Hell, let 'em all throw Potions and Ethers at allies while we're at it. Put healers out of a job completely.

It's not a job skill, it's a non-exclusive item, doesn't count, don't be pedantic.

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Yes.

Why not just give raise to everyone? Why limit it? There's already a self contained balancing factor through death penalty, so why shouldn't everyone be capable of it?

Keep in mind this is the opposite of "Why not just get rid of it from everyone but the healers?"

Historically speaking, it's much more valid to give everyone access. And then you don't have to suffer an arbitrary none-to-15% tax.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

I don't think BLM should get a Raise at all. That would spit in the face of the job's history throughout the series as a pure offensive caster. I could see BLM getting a souped-up Drain back for self-healing while leveling/soloing, or arguments for BLM to get some kind of enemy vulnerability debuff (and even that would be met with resistance, given its current "high damage for low utility" position in the party), but Raise is completely out of the question.

To be honest, I'm even on the fence about ACN/SMN keeping Resurrect. There's nothing saying SCH couldn't "retroactively" get Resurrect as a Level 12 action only while wearing their Job Crystal; the faerie summons and Whispering Dawn already work the same way, and literally all of the other spells it "shares" with ACN already have separate IDs (just look at your Actions menu as a SCH, Resurrect is the only one listed under Class), so that connection isn't even a solid justification for ACN/SMN to keep it. I understand the practical purpose of giving rezzes to DPS, in case one or both healer(s) die, but justifying it for multiple DPS jobs in a single role is really why the whole discussion of giving one to BLM comes up in the first place. That being said, Summoner's history throughout the series is wishy-washy on whether its own magic is more oriented towards healing (Yuna, Eiko) or damage (Rydia), so there's some small precedent for keeping it.

RDM should keep Verraise for all the same reasons BLM shouldn't get it -- the job's history throughout the series as a hybrid means RDM should get a strong party utility related to healing, and while Vercure has niche uses, they're largely self-serving; Verraise is where RDM's heritage as a healer-hybrid truly shines. That being said, I'm not against Verraise getting some limitations in exchange for more output given to the RDM, in the event having 3-5 extra rezzes on-demand isn't strictly necessary.

I'm also all for getting a 4th caster that doesn't have anything to do with raising, such as GEO, so that BLM doesn't feel left out in that regard; at the very least the argument that "BLM is the only caster without a rez" would die down if there were as many without as there were with one.

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I really couldn't say it much better than this.

Smn isn't penalized enough for being able to resurrect in my opinion. Please give us another caster without a rez, there is really no reason we have as many as we do in the game honestly.

I'm not sure why people around here seem to think everyone needs a rez.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

I'm not sure why people around here seem to think everyone needs a rez.

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In its current form, it's a polarizing utility that offers very little room for negotiation, and serves as a lynchpin on balance, where it is either valued too much and the jobs it is attached to are too weak in other areas, or it is valued too little and you end up with a domineering position held by the job penalized the least.

Get rid of it, or share it, or rework how it fits into the overall scheme of the game, because we already see where they have to make compromises in other content areas to account for its presence or absence, such as in Eureka and Deep Dungeon, while also seeing how extreme the differences between jobs have to be to actually make it a choice between whether you bring a raise class or not.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Historically speaking, it's much more valid to give everyone access. And then you don't have to suffer an arbitrary none-to-15% tax.

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... except that would be horrendously broken, in I can't even count how many ways? You're talking virtually infinite rez access at all times for all encounters, with no DPS penalties for anyone.

If you meant to add some nuance as a balancing factor, like raid-wide cooldowns or something, it's suspiciously absent from your actual text.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

... except that would be horrendously broken, in I can't even count how many ways? You're talking virtually infinite rez access at all times for all encounters, with no DPS penalties for anyone.

If you meant to add some nuance as a balancing factor, like raid-wide cooldowns or something, it's suspiciously absent from your actual text.

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There is the built in cost of using Raise, the built in penalty of needing it through Resurrection Sickness, and lastly the penalty for simply having the ability to raise.

We would only be removing the last part, which is effectively nothing.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

it's [...] a lynchpin on balance, where it is either valued too much and the jobs it is attached to are too weak in other areas, or it is valued too little and you end up with a domineering position held by the job penalized the least.

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Neat.
So people have options and can decide for themselves what they want. That sounds like healthy game design.

But in terms of how "the meta" attaches value to things... in TEA recruitment groups RDMs were getting turned away because even though their raises are a great tool for prog no one wanted them instead of the overtuned SMN and BLM.
Sounds like the way things are, if anything BLM doesn't need more it brings to the table.