5.3 Wishlist

5.3 won't contain any major, groundbreaking changes to healers, and nobody should expect a more intuitive DPS rotation for SCH, or card changes for AST. There are a few issues that will likely be tuned however, and the two biggest in my opinion are:

Scholars lower DPS in comparison to AST and WHM

Astrologian's MP economy in comparison to WHM and SCH

The most obvious and straightforward adjustment for Scholar right now is raising the potency of Broil. I can't imagine Square will take a deeper look into Scholar's DPS right now.

As for Astrologian, the devs will likely take drastic measures (like they have in the past) to make AST more desirable. This may not come all at once in 5.3, but AST has about 50% of the total number of players SCH and WHM have, regardless of it being top dog.

I personally think the easiest fix right now to a majority of ASTs issues is reducing the cooldown timer of Lightspeed from 90 to 60 seconds. It would give the job more breathing room for the insane amount of OGCDs, as well as further alleviate the issue of MP.

The minimum I'd want:
SCH: Energy Drain Changed to an instant Spell with 350 potency (Since Seraph and Recitation require 2 weave slots to actually execute)
WHM: Presence of Mind Changed to 120s cooldown (To better align with raid buffs)
AST: Lightspeed has 2 charges and Play/Minor Arcana restores 500mp (to allow flexible usage of Lightspeed and to bring AST's MP restoration closer in line with WHM/SCH)

Further small improvements I'd like to see before 6.0:
SCH:
Ruin1/Broil Cast time reduced to 2.3s. Recast still 2.5, of course. This would put their base mana consumption at the same as AST while only slightly affecting weaving/clipping.
Fairy goes to Heel if you're too far away instead of disappearing
Seraph is a buff to Eos/Selene instead of replacing them (so that Orders don't disappear when they do)
WHM:
Stone/Glare Cast time reduced to 2.3s. Same reasons as SCH.
Assize becoming a Spell maybe? Its potency increased to suit, of course. I don't play this job outside of dungeons and people always complain about not enough movement on WHM as well as having to weave a 45s recast with only Dia and Lilies.
AST:
AST's issues are part of the fundimental way that it plays in comparison to the other healers (free healing actions, vastly more target selection), and won't be fixed in a small tweak or patch.

What I expect:
SCH: Nothing
WHM: Nothing
AST: Nothing
Square are either happy with the way that things are for healers, or don't want to make a change that would make things worse

other than potency adjustments you won't see anything significant change until 6.0.

It's been a year at this point. If they aren't going to fix how boring SCH is yet, then they need to at least fix the miserable excuse of a fairy.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

Scholars lower DPS in comparison to AST and WHM

Astrologian's MP economy in comparison to WHM and SCH

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There's two problems with these suggestions.

1. While SCH's DPS is lower individually, it has very good synergy. SCH+AST already does superior DPS, if only slightly. But if you buff SCH's DPS, SCH+AST will run away as the best healer combination by a much wider margin and WHM will once more be left in the dust.

2. AST is a healing monster. It's the mandatory raid slot for those wishing to optimize healer compositions, and it solo heals content no other healer can. It really does not need hard buffs, and doing so... well, see above. AST does need a fair bit of piety, but perhaps that's a fair price to pay for being such an overwhelmingly strong healer?

Not that SE won't do it. Middle of the expac is traditionally about when SE buffs SCH+AST to out of control levels. But I hope that, this time around, they do not.

I'm keeping everything low so I expect nothing as pessimistic as that sounds that is what I expect since fairy ghosting what fairy ghosting?, controller issues? la la la la cannot hear you.

As for buffing sch, no just no, QoL yes absolutely fixing what they did to it would be wonderful but potency buffs nope don't want to see them.

1 healer will always be bottom, always, until they make everything perfectly balanced to the decimal. Most schs were never complaining about being weak prior to 5.2, what changed? oh right Ast got buffed in 5.1. You were all seemingly fine with your potencies prior to this so it just a case that you look the weakest now even though you are perfectly fine, at least numbers wise, gameplay yea no they can get the sledgehammer again and try to fix what they knocked out of sch.

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SCH+AST already does superior DPS

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The top speed clear for TEA is AST + WHM. The top speed clear for Shiva is also AST + WHM. And for top percentiles on Shiva, SCH is nearly 1000 DPS behind WHM. WHM being only 230 DPS behind AST. I don't know where you are getting your info...

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

The top speed clear for TEA is AST + WHM. The top speed clear for Shiva is also AST + WHM. And for top percentiles on Shiva, SCH is nearly 1000 DPS behind WHM. WHM being only 230 DPS behind AST. I don't know where you are getting your info...

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Ah yes, the old "I'm going to throw statistics out the window and make my sample size '1' " argument.

I'm getting my info from FF logs. I just use a larger sample size instead of cherry picking only 1 log (logs that are typically under highly contrived, exceptional circumstances, no less).

I'll make it easy for you:

https://i.imgur.com/5cqZdu7.png

Flat out saying that SCH + AST has superior DPS is wrong though, as it fails to beat AST + WHM at the most efficient play level. And as for AST, it is the most unpopular choice among healers by quite a large percentage. Whenever AST is considered undesirable by the community, SE has historically buffed the job to the point of ruining healer balance for the remainder of that Expansion. This happened with 20% Balance, and again with the reduced cast time of Malefic. There will be some unnecessary buff to AST in an attempt to make it more appealing, and the vicious cycle will continue.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

Flat out saying that SCH + AST has superior DPS is wrong though, as it fails to beat AST + WHM at the most efficient play level

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You mean... It fails to beat AST+WHM in two specific log files.

Generally, AST+SCH does have the edge in DPS. It is small, but it is there and perceptible and applicable to tens of thousands of people instead of 2 statics/16 people.

However, nitpicking this isn't the point. If you say things like SCH and AST and healers generally need some QoL, more interesting DPS rotations, AST needs card usability QoL - all of that, I will somewhat agree with you.

In terms of power/strength, however, the healers are relatively balanced. We're in a meta where you can play any healer and not get locked out of the vast, vast majority of statics nor virtually any PF.

SCH+AST does have the slight edge outside of those 2 logs, but even if you want to argue this point, SCH+AST and WHM+AST are very, very close and this is a good thing - it enables the aforementioned "play any healer" meta. If SE messes with that by hard buffing SCH/AST (And they might, due to lower player counts and that we're at the point in the patch cycle when they traditionally do) - the "play any healer" meta will be toast.

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Originally Posted by YusiKha

Further small improvements I'd like to see before 6.0:
SCH:
Ruin1/Broil Cast time reduced to 2.3s. Recast still 2.5, of course. This would put their base mana consumption at the same as AST while only slightly affecting weaving/clipping.

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Probably wont happen. All 3 healers have pretty balanced way to weave.

SCH: Broil is 2.5/2.5 so in order to weave, you have to use Ruin 2, which is instant but 200 potency (80 pot loss).

WHM: Glare too is 2.5/2.5, and they don't have a dedicated instant damage spell, however Dia's has initial damage like a Ruin II albeit weaker and is also their DoT. Dia is 120 potency (180 pot loss) however it's 60pot/tick, so in 2 ticks it overtakes what a Ruin II would, and the closer you clip the existing DoT to 15 seconds, the closer to neutral DPS it is compared to a Glare.

AST: Has no dedicated instant non-DoT DPS spell to weave with, however Malefic is a 1.5/2.5 meaning they get a whole second to weave/move every time they cast it.

In this way, all 3 healers have a semi-balanced way to move/cast/weave. If they make Glare/Broil 2.3/2.5, then they would likely have to nerf Ruin II potency/Dia's initial potency to compensate.



My Wishlist:

DRG:
-Coerthan Torment no longer extends Blood of the Dragon, but instead extends Disembowel.
Now that Blood of the Dragon is a 30s duration and 25s recast, there's no need to have DRG's AoE combo extend the buff TWICE (currently Sonic Thrust and Coerthan Torment both extend by 10s each). Meanwhile, MNK and SAM AoE combo extends both their speed buff and their dmg buff.
-DRG keeps their eyes even if BotD falls off. Other dps keep their resources or have an instant way to gain them back in short order after a long cutscene, like Ikishoten, Meikyo Shisui, Perfect Balance. After a long break from combat, DRG requires a full minute to get back into Life of the Dragon and any eyes they had are erased.
-Make Stardiver have shorter startup-delay. I've tested compared to Dragonfire Dive and it's about 0.5s slower causing clipping issues that Dragonfire Dive doesn't.
-Super Jump: trait that replaced Spineshatter Dive. Make it a lightning fast gapcloser, like Shoulder Tackle. SSD is a bit slow, but High Jump is much faster than Jump that it replaced.
-2 charges for Elusive Jump
-Remove Life Surge and just give Full Thrust a 50% critical hit rate.
-Make Wheeling Thrust and Fang and Claw higher potency than Full Thrust so the combo gets stronger with each hit. No reason why a level 25 skill is our highest dmg GCD


SCH:
-Currently if you use any Fairy skills with Seraph when her duration <3 seconds, the skill won't go off. If Seraph is queued to use a skill and her duration is <3 seconds, please delay her dismissal until the skill is used
-A skill that turns your next Succor or Adloquiem into a pure shield with no healing and instant. Basically a reverse Emergency Tactics. So if used on Adloquiem, it would give the target a 400 potency shield with no heal, like a Divine Benison.
-A DPS use for Fey Gauge when healing isn't necessary.
-A better Art of War animation (Meltdown?).

Melees:
-Ranged Attacks (Piercing Talon/Throwing Dagger/Tachi Enpi) no longer interrupt combos.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

My Wishlist:

DRG:
.

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There's nothing wrong with that, but this topic is healer wishlist oriented since it's on healer forum.

just qol stuff for SCH:
fairy to immediately cast the skill I order her to,
and seraph to cast the (last second) skill (I order her to do) before she despawn (if se could delay the skill after summon by 2 sec, they should be able to delay the despawn by several sec until the skill is complete, not just wasting the said skill)

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Probably wont happen. All 3 healers have pretty balanced way to weave.

SCH: Broil is 2.5/2.5 so in order to weave, you have to use Ruin 2, which is instant but 200 potency (80 pot loss).
WHM: Glare too is 2.5/2.5, and they don't have a dedicated instant damage spell, however Dia's has initial damage like a Ruin II albeit weaker and is also their DoT. Dia is 120 potency (180 pot loss) however it's 60pot/tick, so in 2 ticks it overtakes what a Ruin II would, and the closer you clip the existing DoT to 15 seconds, the closer to neutral DPS it is compared to a Glare.
AST: Has no dedicated instant non-DoT DPS spell to weave with, however Malefic is a 1.5/2.5 meaning they get a whole second to weave/move every time they cast it.

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Thank you but I already know how weaving in this game works.
The 'barely affecting' that I mentioned was the fact that 2.3/2.5 would make single-clipping slightly more efficient but still worse than double-weaving with an instant cast.
It doesn't affect how people go about weaving, just a miniscule buff to clipping.

The bigger effects that 2.3/2.5 will have is increased CPM on WHM and SCH due to the removal of the ~0.1s animation lock on Broil and Glare. This will slightly increase Damage and Mana consumption on both of them.
And the reason for 2.3 instead of 2.4 is so that caster tax removal works with higher latency players and for higher spellspeed setups.

I expect nothing or 1-3 items of this post I made in another thread on LL speculation

1. Another unneccesary nerf to holy
2. Sch changes supposedly to make it less clunky but makes it worse
3. Another unhealthy buff to Sch and Ast potencies to try and delay more people leaving the jobs.
4. A nerf to Blood lily
5. Meagre buff to ast's nocturnal sect that's not enough to close the gap between diurnal sect
6. Refusal to acknowledge healing boredom or apologise for it

Half of this thread so far is arguing about top 1% of players which most players aren't capable or interested in being. I suspect that anything potency wise we would get would either be based completely on the top 1% or at the absolutely baseline window lickers which is just as bad. You always need a range.

Traditionally though X.3 is a patch with slightly more changes than normal

Wishlist:
Most important wish- SE would revert back to SB Sch (with aow though so it has aoe) a combo of HW and SB Ast, and 3.0 WHM with 5.0's lily.
Second- SE would alter the way they start developing healers so its more in line with what players want

Realistic wishes
Actual healer armoured set
WHM buffs aligned with other buffs
Raise cost knocked down to 2300mp and 0.5-1 second faster to cast

Hey Guys,

A wish list for 5.3:

AST:

- For AST I only want to see that play or draw gives 500 Mana. At the moment I have a lack of mana and I use piet buffood and raises hurts here much.
- UI Changes for those who do not want use Macros for the Cards.
- The healing part is fine (CO = Asp. Helios is great now, The Bubble is great in Noc and Diu for there working for), CI feels great. Maybe Synastry should hold more than 20s.
- The sect are fine at the Moment there fill up there Job. Diu makes a great healing job and Noc is great to midigate much dmg and the heal is fair.So there is no grap if you midigate the dmg. So pls no changes here.
- (6.0) Do not make the cards so stressful to play^^. And make give the cards a small support and dps push. So everone is happy.

Cards e.g.: Gives a heal (Hot) or mana reg. for the person, who have the card and 30y around this person. The person and the group Member get a %-push of dps. Divination needs a change than reinforce the effect of the card maybe^^

SCH

- SCH need something that increses there dmg. But not only a DP-buff Broil. Thats lazy changes. I would say if Biolysis makes the taget weaker and so Broil III have 290 Dp
- Chain Stratagem is a dps boost but on a %-base so I think that could be okay.

WHM

- Mhhh the WHM is great at the moment. In the spec. case for healer who are focus in DPS.
- But change Presence of Mind to a 120s CD that lines better with other CDs
- Split the DMG part from Dia/Wind and make a extra spell
- the reason is that a lot of player do not want to use Dia/wind for long movment parts, because the overwirtten the dot. So make to extra spells that WHM can handel movment parts.

I think this are changes that can make with 5.3. And before 6.0 there comes LL and we can see what the dev. are doing.^^

greedings,

Marius

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

There's nothing wrong with that, but this topic is healer wishlist oriented since it's on healer forum.

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I just saw it on the front page of "Today's Posts". Sorry!

Gravity needs something else I think. Consider the 3 healers' aoe spells:

WHM
Holy: Moderate Damage, big radius, can be used consecutively to inflict up to 6 seconds of Stun, has the same cast/recast so cannot weave/move during the GCD.


AST
Gravity: Low damage, small radius, has a fast cast so can move/weave.


SCH
Art of War: High damage, small radius, instant cast so can move while using.

I think Gravity needs maybe a Slow effect added to it (say 20% for 10s,5s,3s,1s roughly on par with Stun?) to justify that it's the weakest potency of the 3, doesn't have a debuff, yet still has a cast time.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Gravity needs something else I think. Consider the 3 healers' aoe spells:

WHM
Holy: Moderate Damage, big radius, can be used consecutively to inflict up to 6 seconds of Stun, has the same cast/recast so cannot weave/move during the GCD.


AST
Gravity: Low damage, small radius, has a fast cast so can move/weave.


SCH
Art of War: High damage, small radius, instant cast so can move while using.

I think Gravity needs maybe a Slow effect added to it (say 20% for 10s,5s,3s,1s roughly on par with Stun?) to justify that it's the weakest potency of the 3, doesn't have a debuff, yet still has a cast time.

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You realize Gravity is the only one that you can do at range? That is the likely reason for a lower damage as both Art of War and Holy are an aoe around the caster. Being able to cast at range is great for example on the last pulls of The Twinning as you don't have to stand in the aoe's circles, which can become an issue on WHM after everything becomes immune to stun.

I want Aero III back, turn it into Dia II if you want but I miss my aoe dot :'C

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

1. Another unneccesary nerf to holy

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I’m confused by this. What was the first unnecessary nerf exactly?

If you mean the 140 potency, this was completely necessary. A shortened cast time and lowered MP cost justifies the lower potency, especially since its on a healer and every healer has had the same treatment. It still has a stun and is probably one of, if not the most powerful skill among any job in dungeon running. WHM is completely shredding dungeons right now.

Not to mention during ARR, WHM could cast Holy maybe 4-5x (with dmg dropping off sharply after first target) before being completely tapped on MP, they had no real oGCDs outside of Bene. Now they can spam Holy infinitely.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I want Aero III back, turn it into Dia II if you want but I miss my aoe dot :'C

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Think of it like they rolled the DoT dmg from Aero III into Assize (which used to be 300 potency and is now 400 potency)

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Think of it like they rolled the DoT dmg from Aero III into Assize (which used to be 300 potency and is now 400 potency)

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Pretty sure that assize change was Stormblood

For WHM I hope they do something about Fluid Aura being an abysmal waste of space. Make it a movement skill, or do damage, or just put the stun back.

SCH Fairy ghosting abilities is the hot button for me. I only rarely ever deal with Benediction Ghosting but the delay is obviously intentional. I KNOW fairy skills aren't supposed to be getting squandered regularly intentionally.

AST just feels bad to play for me. I don't like the card system and no amount of healing buffs will change that. I don't feel like they need an MP management buff tho. If you ignore the cards, which is perfectly acceptable if things are hectic, you can weave so much healing with so much ease of movement. MP seems like the classes only real constraint from being completely and utterly God tier.

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Originally Posted by althenawhm

Pretty sure that assize change was Stormblood

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Yes it was.
Last patch, we had Aero III and Assize 400 pot.
We just lost Aero III, its potency didn't go in Assize.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

I don't feel like they need an MP management buff tho. If you ignore the cards, which is perfectly acceptable if things are hectic, you can weave so much healing with so much ease of movement. MP seems like the classes only real constraint from being completely and utterly God tier.

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It's okay if AST is a bit behind in the mana department. But, it definitly need a bit of help.
First, you definitly need some extra piety compare to the 2 others.
And second, any raising and dying drastically kill your mana regeneration to the point that, you'll never make up for that lose, especially if fights have no downtime.
Fortunately he has insane oGCD healing, cause if he didn't, it would be even worse for him.

So at least a 2nd true small mana regen.
Cause you can end up in situation where you have to do nothing if you hope to regen enough to be able to still cast (for whatever reason, some malefic or if you play in nocturnal, having enough mana for shields).

I'm gonna disagree on AST needing better MP economy, I feel it's a case of "the grass is always greener", SCH and WHM have more here, ergo AST should have more here. IMO SCH and WHM have too easy job of a job keeping their MP up where it feels like there's not much going on for managing your MP...actually maybe it's okay for there to be varying levels of how good healers are at managing MP, it's a dynamic that affects the difficulty of playing each job, and I am a big supporter of jobs have different levels of difficulty.

But more and more MP economy to me feels like you're removing the point of resource management. I ran out of MP in my progression for Memora Misera when I decided to learn to heal it and therefore struggled to keep up. My reaction, "oh yeah, AST has weaker MP management, how do I adjust?" And then just made sure I was being more economical and efficient. I liked that. I like when jobs have weaknesses versus others that you have to make up for and have other strengths to rely on. I feel when we look at what other jobs have better and lament we don't have it, we further put ourselves at risk of homogenisation and we're already on that road. Plus, look at when they patched SCH's weakness in HW, it made the job OP, because the job had other things to make up for it.

But what I would like to see and I know it won't happen. I also know any big reworks won't happen until 6.0 (if they even do it) but:

Scholar - Bringing back Miasma and/or Shadowflare (WHM and AST get more than 1 AoE DPS spell, so adding Shadowflare back wouldn't be so ridiculous)
White Mage - Bringing back Aero III
Astrologian - Nothing new, my opinions on what AST needs would probably be too much for a 5.3, but maybe have a potency increase on Divination, so it feels a little more significant (especially when lining up 3 unique seals). Plus if Aero III and Shadowflare return then this could be where the balance is made up for AST.

They're little changes IMO, but I think would at least hold us over a little better until 6.0, where hopefully we get the big changes needed. Plus would just be a nice gesture to say, "we are thinking of you and taking your problems into consideration".

Give SCH shadowflare, it has the worst AOE in the game the only thing worse is a conal aoe like Fuga or Doom spike

Honestly? Nothing. Because I don't think anything of substance will change in 5.3

Hell I have my doubts about 6.0 at this point.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

5.3 won't contain any major, groundbreaking changes to healers, and nobody should expect a more intuitive DPS rotation for SCH, or card changes for AST.

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On the contrary, I see no reason why SCH cannot have back Shadow Flare. Pre-5.0 during a live letter, when addressing healers Yoshi mentioned that when looking at them they wanted to fill in the gaps. Well, there is a gap here. A big one. Both WHM and AST have at least two AoE that cause damage, and SCH has only one. If there is a discrepancy between healer DPS in the most recent high-end content, this is without question part of the reason why.

While a case can be made that SCH can spam their AoE on demand without sacrificing movement along with having Ruin 2, it does not inflict a DoT rendering it useless on ST. No need to raise the potency on Broil. Just give us back Shadow Flare, or the same thing with a different name if that's how they gotta do it; and it's a done deal. SCH would very likely top the healer DPS charts again - as they should.

I know it is wishful thinking, but it is a wishlist thread so I would love it if they came out and apologized for SCH and acknowledge that they went overboard.

A mount would be nice. One for each healer actually, so three.

Please stop forcing me to resummon Lily in Prae. I actually don't even bother resummoning her at all after the big pull, but this is still a techy issue that needs be resolved.

There is nothing they can do for AST this expansion that will have me take it off the bench, but I do hope that those who are still playing it get some favorable adjustments. Especially when it comes to their MP problems.

WHM is sitting a pretty good place right now. I finally took it into some more difficult content this weekend, and after getting things down again was very very enjoyable to play. I still have issues with lily expenditure due the situations in the game that do not warrant lily usage due to low healing requirements. Because of this, I would actually like for them to once again tie Benison to the lily gauge. No silly reduction to its CD though, and just make Benison function just like any other lily skill (instant GCD, 2.5s recast). This alone would add a significant element to WHM gameplay having them have to decide between a shield and heal, but also give them an easy lily dump skill if needed so they can dish out more Misery.

I want one of those mounts to a big giant white fuzzy silk moth.

I personally do not think SE will go back to giving Scholar 2 ground targeting abilities, especially since Sacred Soil is probably one of the strongest healing cds among any healer job now. It's a nice idea having Shadowflare back, but I think a simple AoE DoT would suffice for filling in both single target time gaps and trash mobs.

I'd love it if healers got redesigned to be fun again, but that's definitely not happening in a mid-expansion patch.

Healer balance is fine. Scholar doesn't need damage potency bumps. I'm hesitant about AST's MP economy too. While the MP struggles are something I remember well from late Heavensward WHM, I'm also keeping in mind two things: 1) AST is currently the numerically strongest of the three healers in both healing AND damage, and 2) improving their MP economy will increase those numbers. Not directly, but also remember that having another MP restoring tool means that ASTs won't have to meld as much piety, which frees up slots for materia that increase their damage and healing potencies. That's going to be the unintended consequence if the devs heed that request.

On that subject, I'm also iffy about MP management being a "good" way to increase gameplay interactivity. At least not in this game, and not in the way the kits are designed. I get it, I've played other games where keeping on top of your MP was important and it certainly -can- improve engagement. I don't think it'll do it here, at least not in any significant way. Why do I think that? Because healer kits don't have a whole lot of meaningful choice in them. A big part of the fun in keeping an eye on your MP is managing tradeoffs. Do I cast this heal because I need it, or can I get away with this other one because it's weaker but cheaper and I can keep myself rolling longer? It's a game of managing your resources carefully enough that you can keep up Always Be Casting, because your punishment for failure is running out and needing to stop the spells for a bit. FF14 healer kits have almost none of this save something like Cure vs Cure 2. I remember bleeding mana at the end of Heavensward as a WHM; that wasn't a game of "careful MP management", it was a game of realizing that my spells cost way too much MP and I literally couldn't indefinitely follow the ABC rule performing my basic tasks because there wasn't a choice I could have made that would keep me in the game if I played correctly. Just keeping up my basic lowest-cost rotations would eventually bleed me dry no matter how I spun it.

The point of my rambling here is, MP management is a good mechanic if you have a reward (you get to keep ABC) and a punishment (you have to sit for a bit to get your mana back). With the way healer kits work now, you don't really have much control over your MP output aside from never touching GCD heals and not raising people. And I definitely wouldn't want to be so MP negative that healer downtime, boring as it is now, is reduced to sitting around waiting for MP ticks.