Things would like to not see again, Forced Job, COPY / PASTE and Chaos

Hi, I'm an active player from Masamune server and I am very unhappy with the gameplay in which we are being forced to play.

I've played Final Fantasy XI for years, and I want to not be as many players who criticize this game comparing, but I can not understand why this game is begining to take this repetitive and boring dynamic.

Am sorry to have to open a thread to talk about this issues, but I feel that way and I hope the reply to this thread will be possitive.

I feel like we are being forced to play all in the same way, in a predetermined, repetitive and without any incentive to continue playing beyond the terrible idea that someone if does something faster, deserves to get a better reward.

I have leveled all jobs to 50, but I not like to play them all. I like my main. I can switch to other, but am doing this only because without a particular job you can't do a speed run isn't nice.

I want to keep playing, but with my favorite class, not one that I am forced to use.

In my opinion, Speedruns, are the worst that has been done and I hope am not the only one who thinks so.

Speedrun, is worthless, not worth and given an importance that it should not.

I can't enjoy something, which we are not allowed to do things differently than running.

I have enough stress in my daily life to get stressed more in a dungeon, which was poorly designed (if you can call it that to copy / paste) and a weary melody without any spirit that it's the same in ALL the dungeons.

I don't want to run, I want a dungeon that will shed some interesting enemies, that the strategy can be varied, not forced.

I want real music, not this stressful sound that adds nothing to the battle. Am playing with the sound muted thanks to that.

We was told that this game was going to let us to play our way, alone, with some friends, and of course with more people in a linkshell, but today, this is a big lie.

I want to make a dungeon with friends, not by shouting in the city to recruit people who in most cases is baffled by all this rush.

Now we can't do nothing without people, and sometimes you don't have enough. Always 8 people? ALWAYS. Why?

You should adjust the difficulty depending on the number of players that enter.

About the enemies, there is a abusse of chaos, generated by the number of enemies, and that's not really interesting.

Chaos, as has happened with moogles, the mirmydons and accompanying slugs from the Misers Mistress.

I want to really enjoy this game.

Never start a thread with "ive played XI" this is not XI, and people wont read your thread because of it mostly.

On topic:
If you arent enjoying it, why do you play? I enjoy every minute, when i do DH i go with my LS or random people. the point is, i play it my own way. I play as Bard mysellf, noone has EVER forced me to play something else, yeah, i see people that only wants black mages etc on ifrit, not understanding i have mp regen for them, but so what? thats not a party you want anyways, since its not your way of playing, right? Your problem isnt that you cant have it your way. Your problem is that youre rushing things. And if i remember right, you had to wait 6 hours just to get a party in xi, so yeah, you arent pacient at all.

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Originally Posted by Rabntah

Hi, I'm an active player from Masamune server and I am very unhappy with the gameplay in which we are being forced to play.

I've played Final Fantasy XI for years, and I want to not be as many players who criticize this game comparing, but I can not understand why this game is begining to take this repetitive and boring dynamic.

Am sorry to have to open a thread to talk about this issues, but I feel that way and I hope the reply to this thread will be possitive.

I feel like we are being forced to play all in the same way, in a predetermined, repetitive and without any incentive to continue playing beyond the terrible idea that someone if does something faster, deserves to get a better reward.

I have leveled all jobs to 50, but I not like to play them all. I like my main. I can switch to other, but am doing this only because without a particular job you can't do a speed run isn't nice.

I want to keep playing, but with my favorite class, not one that I am forced to use.

In my opinion, Speedruns, are the worst that has been done and I hope am not the only one who thinks so.

Speedrun, is worthless, not worth and given an importance that it should not.

I can't enjoy something, which we are not allowed to do things differently than running.

I have enough stress in my daily life to get stressed more in a dungeon, which was poorly designed (if you can call it that to copy / paste) and a weary melody without any spirit that it's the same in ALL the dungeons.

I don't want to run, I want a dungeon that will shed some interesting enemies, that the strategy can be varied, not forced.

I want real music, not this stressful sound that adds nothing to the battle. Am playing with the sound muted thanks to that.

We was told that this game was going to let us to play our way, alone, with some friends, and of course with more people in a linkshell, but today, this is a big lie.

I want to make a dungeon with friends, not by shouting in the city to recruit people who in most cases is baffled by all this rush.

Now we can't do nothing without people, and sometimes you don't have enough. Always 8 people? ALWAYS. Why?

You should adjust the difficulty depending on the number of players that enter.

About the enemies, there is a abusse of chaos, generated by the number of enemies, and that's not really interesting.

Chaos, as has happened with moogles, the mirmydons and accompanying slugs from the Misers Mistress.

I want to really enjoy this game.

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It sounds like there is nothing you really enjoy in this game. Maybe its time to play something else you do like if you dont enjoy the content this game has to offer.

And lol at chaos from easy content like moogles and the slugs on miser. Try building a strategy against multiple mobs. The chaos comes from poor party preparation. You want every encounter single target and straightforward it sounds like from your post.

Dear OP, can I have ur stuff?

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Originally Posted by Rabntah

You should adjust the difficulty depending on the number of players that enter.

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You can't do this without adjusting the rewards as well, or a group of 8 could simply duo the dungeon for 4x the rewards.

Anyway, I agree that the speedrun mechanic is dumb. Completing content quickly is a reward in itself and there is no need to make it the primary objective. Forcing speed leads to unintended consequences like having to skip any and all cutscenes and running past (read: through) enemies whenever possible. It also discourages class diversity in groups.

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Originally Posted by Frein

You can't do this without adjusting the rewards as well, or a group of 8 could simply duo the dungeon for 4x the rewards.

Anyway, I agree that the speedrun mechanic is dumb. Completing content quickly is a reward in itself and there is no need to make it the primary objective. Forcing speed leads to unintended consequences like having to skip any and all cutscenes and running past (read: through) enemies whenever possible. It also discourages class diversity in groups.

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well, the speed run chests normally doesnt give as good loot as the others, so i guess it balances. Though, are you able to get all chests, then id say youve earned that extra speedrun chest fair and well. But yeah, ou dont need to speedrun, you have a choice.
Though, even though im saying this, i wish they took the limit off and put another chest for for example cleaning the whole dungeon or something like that. Would make lots of different ways to do it.

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Originally Posted by Rabntah

I feel like we are being forced to play all in the same way, in a predetermined, repetitive and without any incentive to continue playing beyond the terrible idea that someone if does something faster, deserves to get a better reward.

I have leveled all jobs to 50, but I not like to play them all. I like my main. I can switch to other, but am doing this only because without a particular job you can't do a speed run isn't nice.

I want to keep playing, but with my favorite class, not one that I am forced to use.

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Agreed with all statements. I enjoy playing mages, not melee. With that being said, XIV's "classist restrictions" are much less limiting than XI. With the job update, I don't feel the need to level all my classes to 50 because SE is forced to adapt to JOB play, and not require everyone to have the same set of sub-abilities. I do agree that speed runs are creating job stacking groups (Ie: Stacking monk on AV/Archer on DD and Moogle/Warrior on CC.)

Part of this problem lies with the terrible server mechanics that are going to be fixed in 2.0, and part of it lies with SE and damage balance.

Rest assured though, this is getting far better with each patch.

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In my opinion, Speedruns, are the worst that has been done and I hope am not the only one who thinks so.

Speedrun, is worthless, not worth and given an importance that it should not.

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Speed run in the essence of DD is worthless. You shouldn't run through 99% of mobs just to get a chest. Speed runs should be utilized as a method for encourage players to play efficiently. This means loot cannot be restricted to speed run only. Successfully completing a speed run should reward players with another chest that has a chance to drop any gear from the dungeon.

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I don't want to run, I want a dungeon that will shed some interesting enemies, that the strategy can be varied, not forced.

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I think there is room for "speedy dungeons." Not many (if any) other MMOs have used this type of dungeon speed run. I would appreciate a more relaxed dungeon though -- and definitely more UNTIMED dungeons. There can be a healthy mixture of the two.

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I want real music, not this stressful sound that adds nothing to the battle. Am playing with the sound muted thanks to that.

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Completely agree. I don't know why all the dungeons use the same music. I was pretty disappointed when the same track kept being recycled. I'd appreciate unique tracks for dungeons. Hopefully 2.0 can deliver.

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We was told that this game was going to let us to play our way, alone, with some friends, and of course with more people in a linkshell, but today, this is a big lie.

I want to make a dungeon with friends, not by shouting in the city to recruit people who in most cases is baffled by all this rush.

Now we can't do nothing without people, and sometimes you don't have enough. Always 8 people? ALWAYS. Why?

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The dungeon party requirements are being altered in the next patch for lesser numbers of players. To be honest though, these instances are catered to party oriented mechanics... I don't have a solution for you here or any words of advice.

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You should adjust the difficulty depending on the number of players that enter.

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This would take too much development time to create when most people can accept that instances are generally meant for party play.

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About the enemies, there is a abusse of chaos, generated by the number of enemies, and that's not really interesting.

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Pretty indifferent on this. I admit in several MMOs that I tend to hate bosses with "adds" because I don't feel they contribute to the overall mechanic of the fight. But that is what the fight is. A health dose of organization is required and it attributes a difficult and worthwhile challenge.

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Chaos, as has happened with moogles, the mirmydons and accompanying slugs from the Misers Mistress.

I want to really enjoy this game.

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Well practiced groups do not have chaos with Moogles or the slugs. And again, part of this chaos is due to the poor server response times that are promised to be fixed in 2.0.

So aside from opening with I played FFXI, which is probably why people have responded so negatively up to now.
You aren't wrong, forcing speed runs is obnoxious.
After reading that whole post I saw something different in it, but as I have played nearly every FF to date, I can say that as a franchise this game is a broken link. It does not follow along with typical FFs and a franchise that's lasted for >20 years should not change so drastically from what has worked.

Even in XI I got "forced" to play certain jobs often, "forced" meaning that a pt would ask me to play one of the jobs that'll be helpful. That's not gonna go away. If a pt's going to do something and they need a tank they aren't likely to take you along in the 8/8 spot if your not a tank.

Taking a little time, being able to do things differently, really getting into what your doing, these are the things that make games fun. Being at the finish faster than the trip to the start is ... premature [pick a word] and who wants that?

I agree with the OP~ Broken Rokien got yo back!

As I say, I want to not be as many players who criticize this game comparing.

Yes. I played, and that's why am asking why squareenix, knowing the good and bad things about this issues, are keeping repeating the same things.

I want to enjoy, I expected lots of things, and when they come, are not as good as they had to be.

I don't want to get a reward just for click on a npc, like happen on some dumb events.
And of course less rewards on a run with less people, but, please, let us to play other ways, not only with 8 people that sometimes are rude, I want to stay with friends.

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Originally Posted by Medura

noone has EVER forced me to play something else, yeah, i see people that only wants black mages etc on ifrit, not understanding i have mp regen for them, but so what? thats not a party you want anyways, since its not your way of playing, right? Your problem isnt that you cant have it your way. Your problem is that youre rushing things. And if i remember right, you had to wait 6 hours just to get a party in xi, so yeah, you arent pacient at all.

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Am not a kid crying because has no lots, I already have most of the equip I want, but am talking about having fun and to take this in mind to not repeat the same things with next things. Repeating with another mask.
And sorry if you misunderstand me, but am not saying FFXI is better, read me again please.

What I try to say, is that let people to choose, to be in low groups of friends if they not want a big linkshell, or be with a big linkshell with many people if that's how they like to play.

I've done many dungeons, many leveling, crafting and gathering enough to be proud to say that am patient.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

It does not follow along with typical FFs and a franchise that's lasted for >20 years should not change so drastically from what has worked.
If a pt's going to do something and they need a tank they aren't likely to take you along in the 8/8 spot if your not a tank.

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Welcome to a world in which you are NOT the only player:rolleyes:
It's an MMORPG, other people may take whatever class they want to take, and if they want a tank they have every right to only take tanks.
You are not forced to join their party.
Heck, if you want to play only BLM, fine! Build your own party and YOU will be the one to decide what you need. And when you filled your party with 7/8 DDs and healers, I bet you'll only take a PLD or warrior for the last spot, too.

Also..you can't compare an MMORPG with offline FF titles.
The mechanics are completely different since offline titles only have to cater to solo players while the world of an MMO is always populated by dozens of players which will meet, interact, and so on.
But even if we ignore that and only look at "what worked in the previous offline FF titles": In many your characters had a certain job or class which could not be switched to something else, and even if you had the chance to change it you probably were still forced to have different kinds of fighters in your party because 4 whitemages made you wipe during every bossfight.
So you were also forced to have a melee DD and whatever in those older games, even if you only enjoyed healing and buffing.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Taking a little time, being able to do things differently, really getting into what your doing, these are the things that make games fun.

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These are the things I do in FFXIV everyday.
All 3 things you mentioned are stuff the player does, they are not provided by a game. You can do stuff differently in FFXIV, you may take all the time in the world and totally immerse yourself in what you are doing, it's perfectly possible by the game mechanics.
If you decide to do it or not is a decision only you can make.
To me, you sound like someone too lazy and too afraid to play in your own way, and you blame the game for it.
You join other parties instead of building your own, then compain about them wanting you to play another class than what you want to play and them fighting differently than you want to do it.

I play with friends all the time, we build our own parties, sometimes invite a few strangers, and WE make the rules.
We decide which classes to bring, which monsters to kill.
I never even once felt FORCED to a certain playstyle in this game.
But that's because I actually DO something instead of whining why things dont turn out the way I want them to when I do nothing to make them the way I like.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

So aside from opening with I played FFXI, which is probably why people have responded so negatively up to now.
You aren't wrong, forcing speed runs is obnoxious.
After reading that whole post I saw something different in it, but as I have played nearly every FF to date, I can say that as a franchise this game is a broken link. It does not follow along with typical FFs and a franchise that's lasted for >20 years should not change so drastically from what has worked.

Even in XI I got "forced" to play certain jobs often, "forced" meaning that a pt would ask me to play one of the jobs that'll be helpful. That's not gonna go away. If a pt's going to do something and they need a tank they aren't likely to take you along in the 8/8 spot if your not a tank.

Taking a little time, being able to do things differently, really getting into what your doing, these are the things that make games fun. Being at the finish faster than the trip to the start is ... premature [pick a word] and who wants that?

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Is the above really the one you want to attack?

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Welcome to a world in which you are NOT the only player:rolleyes:
It's an MMORPG, other people may take whatever class they want to take, and if they want a tank they have every right to only take tanks.
You are not forced to join their party.

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Umm reread my post, I just said "If they need/want something other than what you are your not going. Your attacking something by agreeing with me lol. If you got from what I said that I'm implying that people should cater to me, again reread my post, I DO NOT expect to be catered to by anyone, I DO however expect people to not lash out with this level of idiocy.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Heck, if you want to play only BLM, fine! Build your own party and YOU will be the one to decide what you need. And when you filled your party with 7/8 DDs and healers, I bet you'll only take a PLD or warrior for the last spot, too.

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Still just reread that post cause again, your arguing on the same side as me, if your so angry that your blind to what I said and just want something to attack then that's fine. More power to you.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Also..you can't compare an MMORPG with offline FF titles.
The mechanics are completely different since offline titles only have to cater to solo players while the world of an MMO is always populated by dozens of players which will meet, interact, and so on.
But even if we ignore that and only look at "what worked in the previous offline FF titles": In many your characters had a certain job or class which could not be switched to something else, and even if you had the chance to change it you probably were still forced to have different kinds of fighters in your party because 4 whitemages made you wipe during every bossfight.
So you were also forced to have a melee DD and whatever in those older games, even if you only enjoyed healing and buffing.

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I have to say though, this argument supports mine with "passion". I didn't compare XIV to offline ones directly, just stated that the FF franchise has been alive and well for years, and now there's this cancer growing in it called "let's get to the end faster"

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Originally Posted by Atoli

These are the things I do in FFXIV everyday.
All 3 things you mentioned are stuff the player does, they are not provided by a game. You can do stuff differently in FFXIV, you may take all the time in the world and totally immerse yourself in what you are doing, it's perfectly possible by the game mechanics.
If you decide to do it or not is a decision only you can make.
To me, you sound like someone too lazy and too afraid to play in your own way, and you play the game for it.
You join other parties instead of building your own, then compain about them wanting you to play another class than what you want to play and them fighting differently than you want to do it.

I play with friends all the time, we build our own parties, sometimes invite a few strangers, and WE make the rules.
We decide which classes to bring, which monsters to kill.
I never even once felt FORCED to a certain playstyle in this game.
But that's because I actually DO something instead of whining why things dont turn out the way I want them to when I do nothing to make them the way I like.

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Ok so in closing here ...
aside from wondering if you meant to /quote me or someone else, I'm thinking that you are not a lawyer. A part of me actually kind of hopes that you just got me all upside down because you don't sound stupid, but how you could get so many different pieces of what I said so far off center is confusing the shit outta me.

First: I don't rush, I've never been PL'd and chances are I won't be, I have friends that I play with and don't hope people will do things for me.
Second: "Forced" as I said in the old post that you should be rereading, all the words of said post mind you, to play a job due to it being what is needed does happen, if I can be PLD and a pt needs PLD and they're 7/8 and they "ask" me to run w/ them as PLD, well I'm going as PLD or not going. If you somehow read this as "God I hate this game I can never do what I want" you need to remove your blinders.
Third: When I'm not actually doing things with friends/ls members I do not sit anywhere and whine, I go and do other things that I want to.

I think maybe you meant to /quote the OP which made most of what you said make sense, but really you did a damn fine job of supporting my post. you just need to /quote the whole thing. Paraphrasing me to make your arguments appear sane and rational does not make them sane and rational.

Thankyou though you've actually given me something fun to do for the last few minutes.:o

You know what am talking about but don't want to recognice it.
Allways happen, it's a problem of the people? Am with you, yes, but this won't happen if we had more ways to do instead of rush, and am not crying for drops.
7/7 Ifrit weapons, 5/7 Moogle weapons, 2 Darklight pieces.

I think you not read all what I am saying, players copy / paste the way to do dungeon?
4 chest, for killing some enemy, getting all coffers, final boss.
5th chest, speed run.

the music? does players make the music?

I just don't want to be allways with a party with people that I don't want to be, even making it. I am not talking about getting the same rewards as a full party. I am talking about to have the OPTION to be with friends only being abble to do this with 4, and not have to argue with people who lack skills and manners. And not only for AV or CC.

I find out all dungeons and the avatars are easy, why think am saying it's hard?
And am sure you have meet many people that ruined some of your runs, ifrit, moogle, dzmael, etc...

The time I play, can't be the same as yours, and I play as much as I can, I can't understand why people when see a post like this only things the player is a unexperienced player, or someone lazy.

Lazy? Lazy is to bring allways the same setup.

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Hi, I'm an active player from Masamune server and I am very unhappy with the gameplay in which we are being forced to play.

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1.) If you're very unhappy why are you playing?
2.) Nobody is being forced to play anything.

It's been very clear now that this game is still undergoing changes. The team is doing what they can right now with the archaic (is that the word?) structure the previous team built this game upon. So for now all they can do is work on some things while trying to bring the communities together. Back in January, hell, December even, they stated that they were going to begin billing and this was the choice: Do you as a player feel the game is worth your time to pay for in its current state?

I'll point out a couple things too. Speedruns aren't a requirement nor an expectation. Those who engage in these are doing it for personal reasons, primarily for a challenge. How quick can they complete the given objective in the most efficient manner possible? If you're getting stressed from just dungeons (Only Aurum Vale annoys me with the poison, easily averted really.) then you may want to take a step back. I've had more frustrations and annoyances facing Ifrit than doing any of the dungeons and that's only due to latency issues. They're trying to add in new music but this costs money. Look at several of the rep responses we've received lately, many state they're reviewing "costs" to implement this feature, or that feature.

2.0 will come no matter if we pay or not, but the game is currently reliant on funds coming in now to make certain features between now and then come alive. I too wish the music had a bit more variety but for now they got to work with what they got. Currently you can play your own way, with friends, or alone. Some content requires more than one person and it should require that, it's an MMO after all. The issue about dungeon requirements is being worked on, eventually you'll be able to enter with smaller parties. Will they allow the difficulty to be adjustable? Probably not. Much of this is expected as endgame. What's the challenge in it being endgame if you can stroll through with a party of two-four players and easily win?

And the part about enemies being too many...? Yeah, I'm just going to avoid commenting on this one... Only thing I can hope is maybe finding a way to reduce the lag the Guardians of the Grove inflict. Lessen the number of trees roaming the area or shrink them down a bit. Currently only way (And even hi-end systems have this problem.) to reduce it is by turning off Character Shadows in the UI. Kind of disappointing really.

Playing because I have hope on the development would do some changes to make it better, like we all did when the game had all the problems that had and now are being solved.

I do not understand how you can make a repetitive content, always the same music, always running, and give you a chest to make it in 25 min, and can not be done with fewer people, I hope and change drop system change content, and the people who says otherwise has not played Final Fantasy XI