Someone told me today to stop using DPS spells like Stone

... Because they were fire-chained to me in that one dungeon where you have to run away from your linked party member to avoid death.

... He didn't help me break the fire-chain so we both died... and then when we respawned, he said, "Are you using DPS spells?" To which I said "Yes" and He replied "Well then don't. Don't use anything but heal."

:(

I have always kept my party members up at 90% health or higher, used my DPS spells on adds and boss, and never struggled with my mana. I rarely have to revive anyone unless, like in that scenario, they ignored a boss mechanic.

I think I am a pretty good healer, as it is such a simple class and you can do no wrong if you've played MMOs for a long time. But hearing him blame me made me feel so defeated :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuletide

... Because they were fire-chained to me in that one dungeon where you have to run away from your linked party member to avoid death.

... He didn't help me break the fire-chain so we both died... and then when we respawned, he said, "Are you using DPS spells?" To which I said "Yes" and He replied "Well then don't. Don't use anything but heal."

:(

I have always kept my party members up at 90% health or higher, used my DPS spells on adds and boss, and never struggled with my mana. I rarely have to revive anyone unless, like in that scenario, they ignored a boss mechanic.

I think I am a pretty good healer, as it is such a simple class and you can do no wrong if you've played MMOs for a long time. But hearing him blame me made me feel so defeated :(

---

Welcome to 14, where people who dont play healers think they should just heal, and regularly fail mechanics and blame it on the healers.

Ignore them, it's completely normal.

I think, he thinks, that you werent paying attention to the chain, and were too busy trying to DPS instead of breaking it. If thats wrong, my next assumption is that he doesnt realize the chains need broken, and assumes the deaths were caused by lack of healing.
Otherwise id imagine hes fine with DPS. I wouldnt know w/o asking though.

That DPS didn't know anything about being a healer.

Healers in FFXIV are just dps with boring rotations that sometimes throw heals, in fact healer damage is so high that can deal more dps than tanks.

Quote:

---

I have always kept my party members up at 90% health or higher

---

Side note: Don't be afraid to let your party members go lower than that, you'll rarely find high unavoidable damage in casual content and at 90% hp most of the heals are overheal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuletide

... Because they were fire-chained to me in that one dungeon where you have to run away from your linked party member to avoid death.

... He didn't help me break the fire-chain so we both died... and then when we respawned, he said, "Are you using DPS spells?" To which I said "Yes" and He replied "Well then don't. Don't use anything but heal."

:(

I have always kept my party members up at 90% health or higher, used my DPS spells on adds and boss, and never struggled with my mana. I rarely have to revive anyone unless, like in that scenario, they ignored a boss mechanic.

I think I am a pretty good healer, as it is such a simple class and you can do no wrong if you've played MMOs for a long time. But hearing him blame me made me feel so defeated :(

---

Please ignore the horrible "advice" that player gave you. As long as you are keeping your party alive and doing mechanics properly, there's no reason not to dps. Continue to play as you are because it sounds like you're doing a good job. Don't let somebody who has no idea what they are doing keep you from playing a role you enjoy. :)

like the others here have said, ignore that guy. if you're observing the mechanics of a fight and people are not dead or dying, you're doing your job correctly.

Welcome to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It tends to be especially pronounced in environments where calling people out on their idiocy is prohibited.

If you run into similar situations in the future I would recommend healing yourself and leaving them to die. The chain breaks when either player dies, and it's best for that not to be the healer.

The three most important rules of a healer
1. In terms of keeping people alive, you are the most important followed by your mt and co healer
2. You do dps when you don't have any healing to do, which should be between 70 and 80% of the time if your tank remembers cooldowns are a thing
3. You leave arseholes who tell you to do your role by only casting heals on the floor as they are the ones who fail mechanics because they focus on their uptime. They are also the ones that led SE to making the healing role so bloody dull this expansion

In this case, those chains are broken by both the dps AND the healer running most of the arena apart. Its his/her own fault due to the distance required if you were moving.

I'd suggest linking anyone this gif if they tell you healers shouldn't do DPS.

https://i.imgur.com/lxaMlx8.gif

Back when I was a sprout and leveling SCH in Heavensward before dungeon content got HP-nerfed, I did stone vigil. Tank kept dying, I got blamed. The actual reason? Tanks gear was broken.

Moral of the story: People like to blame healers for their own shortcomings or the faults of someone else. Just ignore people like them and can just blacklist them after (even if you're not likely to see them again any day soon or at all).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuletide

... Because they were fire-chained to me in that one dungeon where you have to run away from your linked party member to avoid death.

... He didn't help me break the fire-chain so we both died... and then when we respawned, he said, "Are you using DPS spells?" To which I said "Yes" and He replied "Well then don't. Don't use anything but heal."

:(

I have always kept my party members up at 90% health or higher, used my DPS spells on adds and boss, and never struggled with my mana. I rarely have to revive anyone unless, like in that scenario, they ignored a boss mechanic.

I think I am a pretty good healer, as it is such a simple class and you can do no wrong if you've played MMOs for a long time. But hearing him blame me made me feel so defeated :(

---

I had this happen to me earlier today. "Just DoT and heal" - DPS and tank. This person is also the one who doesn't really mitigate damage. It was at that point I knew they didn't really play healer and doesn't understand how much DPS a healer can output.

It's completely fine to leave them at a lower health. In fact, as you get more accustomed to healing, your baseline of keeping everyone at a certain point generally gets lower and lower for regular content runs when you have strong oGCD heals or powerful GCD spells that can be instant cast on the fly. All you really have to do is be aware of possible mechanics that hit heavy and be ready to heal before it hits and let the regen do its thing after. The other times you can be using that to spam your attack.

In fact, some jobs actually require your other characters to suffer to get the max possible benefit. That's right AST, I'm staring at you (Essential Dignity scaling to 1100 at 1 HP). So yeah, don't listen to people who don't tell you otherwise.

Just ensure your baseline isn't too low where if they die, it isn't your fault and it's all good. If it's a mechanic they didn't respect, that's entirely on them. A Healer's mana is too precious to be wasted on someone who doesn't respect the mechanics.

This whole thing reminds me of a time I was asked by this random tank in a Saint Mochian's run I had 1st pull with just the morbol+2 things i treated as normal then tank stands there, wondered why, then they message could I not dps it makes them uncomfortable, I was like ok, but I snuck what I could where I could and at bosses I just went ham, I know what I can do, when things are appropriate, me not dps is wasting my time, their time, and more importantly the other two random dps time, said as much to them apologise that I dpsed but I have to, it would be like they got aggro and stood there not doing anything.

Ultimately trying to say so long as your doing mechanics, healing when you feel you need to and not killing people for 1 extra stone, go ham, you can try to heal through stupid but end of day stupid will die eventually and you shouldn't blame yourself for their mistakes.

Reminds me when we lost a DPS in a dungeon probably around HW or ARR time and people were waiting for a DPS because 1 dropped, I said "its fine, besides I Green DPS anyway" . They told me don't and just focus on healing. I insisted they carry on pulling, as you will expect dungeon was fine, I Green DPS'd, nobody died and thus at the end I had to say "I told you so".

At the end of the day as long as you fulfill your top priority, keeping people alive, you have plenty of room to DPS and people who tell you to focus only on healing don't understand how healing in XIV works. XIV is very scripted and there's also no constant stream of healing, meaning damage is predictable and not constant, so that creates periods where if you aren't DPSing, you are doing nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Recon1o6

The three most important rules of a healer
1. In terms of keeping people alive, you are the most important followed by your mt and co healer

---

This is untrue. The most important person keeping anyone alive is themselves, regardless of their role. That is to say, people need to do mechanics so that they don't make unnecessary extra work for the healers.

It's not the healer's job to heal avoidable damage. The healer's job is to heal unavoidable damage.

If the healer and other party members know each other well enough, someone might eat an avoidable hit in order to do a significant amount of extra damage, if it won't create extra work for the healer. But if you don't know the healer personally, don't assume that it's okay to take avoidable damage.

Again, it is not the healer's job to heal avoidable damage. The good ones will heal it because a dead DD does less damage than an irate healer who had to waste a GCD on someone being selfish. But it is not their job to do so. People need to do mechanics.

Some players just insist on healers to just afk between heals, I don't even know why.

During SB when I leveled AST I got into Bardam's Mettle. The tank was VERY undergeared, used no defense CDs and pulled everything. The only damage I was able to do was my DoT while the tank was pulling. After that even spam-healing them didn't help. After the wipe I politely asked them if they could use CDs, they just replied in broken English "you heal, no dps", their DPS friend agreed to that. They admitted they didn't use them because I did dps and that they will play normally if I don't. I asked them if they wanted healers to just stand around and wait for their HP to drop when there's nothing to heal. While I was typing he pulled all again. I even tried to get after them to heal again, but we wiped again of course and afterwards I was kicked. So... people like that definitely exist unfortunately.

Just look at trusts and squadrons. SE programs the healers to DPS if your HP is above 50% (or the tank) and to start healing, if your HP is below 50% (or the tanks).
Pretty similar to what its like in normal 3 mob, single group, trash pulls.
This is also why they suck at healing double group pulls, since you need to start healing at 60-70%+HP depending on factors. (plus the AI is roughly 1 second slow to decide what action it will take next. It really should be adjusted to 60% at the bare minimum.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Just look at trusts and squadrons. SE programs the healers to DPS if your HP is above 50% (or the tank) and to start healing, if your HP is below 50% (or the tanks).
Pretty similar to what its like in normal 3 mob, single group, trash pulls.
This is also why they suck at healing double group pulls, since you need to start healing at 60-70%+HP depending on factors. (plus the AI is roughly 1 second slow to decide what action it will take next. It really should be adjusted to 60% at the bare minimum.)

---

Hell, often times in trust I'm UNDER 50% hp and dropping and still don't get healed.

Looking at you Alphinaud you pathetic excuse for a healer.

People are dumb. This is completely normal. Keep stoning, broiling, and maleficing my child.

Sounds like you did nothing wrong and you just bumped into one of the endless disasters in the park. World is full of people who are a good few sandwiches short of a picnic. Nothing is their fault and if you happen to be nearby it's going to be yours. Yey \o/

Do ignore them dear. You need a thick skin and some liberal use of the slap emote. Or my personal favorite just irritating them even more with a ridiculous level of polite antagonism. Healer or not, there ain't no cure for someones stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuletide

... Because they were fire-chained to me in that one dungeon where you have to run away from your linked party member to avoid death.

... He didn't help me break the fire-chain so we both died... and then when we respawned, he said, "Are you using DPS spells?" To which I said "Yes" and He replied "Well then don't. Don't use anything but heal."

:(

I have always kept my party members up at 90% health or higher, used my DPS spells on adds and boss, and never struggled with my mana. I rarely have to revive anyone unless, like in that scenario, they ignored a boss mechanic.

I think I am a pretty good healer, as it is such a simple class and you can do no wrong if you've played MMOs for a long time. But hearing him blame me made me feel so defeated :(

---

Let me guess who it was you wiped to....

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...96/988/ffd.png

I'm all for Heal DPSing but as a healer you do have to be alert to this guy as he can do some rather nasty damage spikes. That being said if people die because they dont run away from each other to break the chain's its their fault not your's and if they're blaming you then your only response to them should be "why u no do mechanics?" :) DPSing as a healer is a good thing, being alert as a healer is a good thing, your primary role might be to heal but your heal insurance doesnt cover "death by stupidity" :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raiya

Let me guess who it was you wiped to....

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...96/988/ffd.png

I'm all for Heal DPSing but as a healer you do have to be alert to this guy as he can do some rather nasty damage spikes. That being said if people die because they dont run away from each other to break the chain's its their fault not your's and if they're blaming you then your only response to them should be "why u no do mechanics?" :) DPSing as a healer is a good thing, being alert as a healer is a good thing, your primary role might be to heal but your heal insurance doesnt cover "death by stupidity" :D

---

The phrase I like is "you can't heal stupid".

I just think people should be humble about why they died or wiped. Screwed up a mechanic? Happens. Why blame somebody else? People 9 times out of 10 will respond to people better who are honest about their mistakes. Heck from a healer perspective it is possible to misjudge your heal/DPS balance or sometimes be overzealous, I've done it when I've misjudged how much of a beating a tank could take because I may have had a string of well geared tanks that could take it. Though I expect people will use this to try and argue "but healers shouldn't DPS" but tunnel vision can happen to a tank or a DPS too.Everybody can misjudge and wipe. And people making mistakes shouldn't dictate a playstyle, just...have a better emphasis on people learning from their mistakes.

But yeah, Ser Sherbert Lemon, half the time it's people not breaking the tether, very little can be done.

I have nothing but respect for a (fresh) healer that is actively trying to deal damage while keeping the rest alive, even if they fail.
Because they at least try. Unlike those insecure "OhGodOhGod the tank is missing .1% HP, better cast Cure III!".
It's not like we still got Cleric Stance to make dps on healers harder.

Having started FFXIV as a Conjurer (Stoneskin is still on it's hotbar and it's staying there darnit!) I have never encountered a player that told me to only heal, and I'm glad I didn't.

As long as you - in this very specific instance - did your best to break the tether (i.e. You ran as far away as you could but the other person didn't move so the tether didn't break) then you did nothing wrong. I don't know if it's possible to stand still and heal through that - maybe it is, maybe they've had that happen previously - but they shouldn't expect that you'll compensate for their failure to do the mechanics properly. Not sure why you DPS'ing at other times has any bearing at all.

But if you stood still and DPS'd at that point instead of running, yeah, you messed up too. (Doesn't sound like you did but I thought I'd mention it)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

Again, it is not the healer's job to heal avoidable damage. The good ones will heal it because a dead DD does less damage than an irate healer who had to waste a GCD on someone being selfish. But it is not their job to do so. People need to do mechanics.

---

Sure it is. Contrary to popular belief, it is indeed your job to heal "stupid". But it is also erroneous to think that players are taking avoidable damage just to spite you, or max out their deeps. As a matter of a fact, if you have shielding capability, tossing a shield on a player who just received a vuln+ stack effectively takes it away for half of its duration. So do you want to burn up a GCD and sacrifice 300pot protecting that player, or risk having to cast a longer GCD and greater MP cost on raising that player should they get hit again?

But healing isn't engaging though, remember? That's what's constantly tossed around the forums, yes? Healing "stupid" is exactly what makes this role engaging, because it seriously forces you to take a lot into consideration and doesn't give you a whole of time to do it. In a heated encounter, a wrong decision with a single GCD usage can lead to a player KO. When this happens, I don't blame the player that died; I blame both that player taking avoidable damage and the healer who chose to DPS instead of heal.

In this particular case, which I am quite sure is a Holy Chain incident; both players are at fault. One didn't know the mechanic, the other should have been running away from that player regardless and not standing in one spot casting DPS spells. Some healers will say, "Players need to do mechanics." Well, so do healers.

I have to agree with the healing stupid to a point that it doesn't interfere with time usage. The more players mess up AoE avoidance the more engaging as a healer I become and actually propose a challenge to an extent.

However if constant failed mechanic causes wipe repeatedly im out for sure.

As healer chaos is the most fun I have with this role so long as we don't wipe.

If healers don't get any new buttons to press, I've always liked the idea of giving healers a core mechanic wherein their main offensive GCD will have an increased potency (of up to 30 or 50%) which gets dropped if a healing spell is cast (similar to Monk with their GL stacks disappearing after Tornado Kick).

This will then give them a bit more of a kick, strategy, planning, choices (ie should you get someone healed at 40% or 30% in order to get that last spell in or something) and hopefully give people who make bad choices a bit of a kick up the rear to get better.

As for someone telling you what to do and what not to do in dungeons, the classic "you don't pay my sub" should suffice. Advice is cool, orders are not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

In this particular case, which I am quite sure is a Holy Chain incident; both players are at fault. One didn't know the mechanic, the other should have been running away from that player regardless and not standing in one spot casting DPS spells. Some healers will say, "Players need to do mechanics." Well, so do healers.

---

From my understanding of the OP, OP wasn't standing in one place casting DPS spells. OP tried to break the chain, but the other player didn't move, so it didn't break because they were too close. The other player then tried to blame OP for it by accusing them of DPS'ing instead of curing. They weren't casting anything, they were running away.

However if that isn't the case, yeah, both players messed up. But the DPS casting is irrelevant. If OP had stood still and cast healing spells, would still have not broken the chain

BTW Gemina, can I just say that your GIF "Healing in Copied Factory be like..." is SO good! Makes me chuckle every time. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elladie

From my understanding of the OP, OP wasn't standing in one place casting DPS spells. OP tried to break the chain, but the other player didn't move, so it didn't break because they were too close. The other player then tried to blame OP for it by accusing them of DPS'ing instead of curing. They weren't casting anything, they were running away.

However if that isn't the case, yeah, both players messed up. But the DPS casting is irrelevant. If OP had stood still and cast healing spells, would still have not broken the chain

---

From my understanding, I know the OP was the healer in this situation. When she was questioned about if they were casting DPS spells after they had both died, she responded with, "Yes." I then surmised that when she said the other player wouldn't help break the chain she was expecting that player to run away from her while she continued to cast her ST. Of course, I could be wrong and I can see how you got that impression from their post as well.

In any case, this mechanic requires two people to handle. I suppose one could do it if there is enough space between them for one to move away, but they will take more damage opposed to both players moving away from each other. They both failed it, and instead of the finger pointing, both should take accountability and also be made aware of how to handle the mechanic for the next time they have to deal with it as Mr. Charcoal in the Vault isn't the only one to use it ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Side-Eye

BTW Gemina, can I just say that your GIF "Healing in Copied Factory be like..." is SO good! Makes me chuckle every time. ;)

---

Thank you! I get a kick out of it every time too. I love sticking my tongue out at an alliance raid boss who targets me for death :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saefinn

The phrase I like is "you can't heal stupid".

I just think people should be humble about why they died or wiped. Screwed up a mechanic? Happens. Why blame somebody else? People 9 times out of 10 will respond to people better who are honest about their mistakes. Heck from a healer perspective it is possible to misjudge your heal/DPS balance or sometimes be overzealous, I've done it when I've misjudged how much of a beating a tank could take because I may have had a string of well geared tanks that could take it. Though I expect people will use this to try and argue "but healers shouldn't DPS" but tunnel vision can happen to a tank or a DPS too.Everybody can misjudge and wipe. And people making mistakes shouldn't dictate a playstyle, just...have a better emphasis on people learning from their mistakes.

But yeah, Ser Sherbert Lemon, half the time it's people not breaking the tether, very little can be done.

---

I will try to heal stupid, and let me tell ya, it feels stupid when they still die.

I once had someone run off the edge on their own in Titan and then went '' FFS HEALERS '' xD...
Also, BLM in Eden's Gate: Resurrection who got really mad at me because I pulled him into safety when the boss was doing that instant kill AoE and he was just standing in the middle and kept casting F4 right as it was about to go off.
He got mad because he lost Enochian ( which was his fault regardless, I main MNK and BLM if that happens just Transpose or whatever... ) and yelled at me then shortly after he backed into the edge and died and started ranting at the healers.

Don't underestimate how desperate some people are to blame everyone else for their own faults.
It's like with people who are assholes, people rarely acknowledge if they're a bad person even people who commit pretty hideous crimes still think they're a good person and will find ways to victimize themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rasikko

I will try to heal stupid, and let me tell ya, it feels stupid when they still die.

---

lol I'm right there with ya. Maybe it's just the influence of my personal history in other games (where damage is much less predictable and much less scripted), but I cannot help but believe that keeping a DPS alive despite their 'mistake' is more advantageous to the group than letting them die, spending a swift cast and MP for rez, only to have their performance crippled by rez effects. In most cases, keeping their DPS going is better for the group than ignoring their death and spamming my two measly DPS spells to compensate for the loss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuletide

... Because they were fire-chained to me in that one dungeon where you have to run away from your linked party member to avoid death.

... He didn't help me break the fire-chain so we both died... and then when we respawned, he said, "Are you using DPS spells?" To which I said "Yes" and He replied "Well then don't. Don't use anything but heal."

:(

I have always kept my party members up at 90% health or higher, used my DPS spells on adds and boss, and never struggled with my mana. I rarely have to revive anyone unless, like in that scenario, they ignored a boss mechanic.

I think I am a pretty good healer, as it is such a simple class and you can do no wrong if you've played MMOs for a long time. But hearing him blame me made me feel so defeated :(

---

Fire-Chain, you mean Charibert, the final Vault Boss?

Ironically that's one of the fights where it is very helpful for the healers to be doing DPS because that's definitely a boss you want to kill fast.

Obviously, he was clueless to the chain mechanic and the wipe was his fault so don't let that bother you.