Skysteel Tools

So, with the new Skysteel Relic out, I'm curious what are thoughts and feedback on our DoH/DoL activity for this patch?

From what I can see, the tools compared to a fully melded Facet are:

-6 CP
-23 Control
+35 Craftmanship.

I don't think I need to go into detail on why they're currently far worse. You could argue they're catch-up, but considering they're just 5ilv more than the current catch-up, which is an incredibly cheap 250 white scrips, another catch-up feels unnecessary.

There's a chance these might be better next patch, but also a chance they might be updated but still be worse than the 5.3 crafted tools. In the event we decide to obtain them all now "just incase" we'll be down up to 11 more armory slots, since you won't want to throw away the superior Facet. Not viable for most omnicrafters.

The method to obtain them was basically press a 1 button macro 20, then 30 times with cheap mats.

I don't know, to me it feels like endgame crafters didn't get anything yet again and are meant to simply ignore this patch and "wait and see", which we've been doing the entire expansion so far and only got 10 days content out of it, but I don't want to derail into a rant or complaints.
How are you guys enjoying the patch as DoH/L and any feedback on what we have so far?

It wait and see tier for sure ya.
I expect we'll be able to customize it over time (and so the lack of CP will be nonfactor by the end).
Same with regular relic, but I don't mind. I'll still grind them out when I have time.
I can't rmbr the last time the first stage relic was ever competitive.

The DoL tools are actually viable alternatives to overmelded Facet tools as you can still meet all of the important stat thresholds with them.

I also noticed that you can put the Dragonsung tools into your glam dresser until they're actually needed (Unlike the DoW/M relics), so space will thankfully not be an issue for completionists.

if i could actually put them on display in my house they would have some function but otherwise i find the tools useless. They are not better compared to overmelded facet tools and there was no challenge in obtaining them.

Good:
Since I'm using i470 white scrip tools instead of Facet Tools, this is actually an upgrade for me. And their designs are not too shabby either.

Bad:
This grind is soooooooooo boringggg!!!!! >_<

Looking forward to:
I can also foresee this getting stronger and stronger in later patches. So we should all get them all.

NOT looking forward to:
Please pray that we will NOT let RNG decide our final stats like Eureka weapon did... that will suck sooo bad! I do not plan to grind boring recipes 20,000x just so I can roll the dice 20 times to get more CP.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I also noticed that you can put the Dragonsung tools into your glam dresser until they're actually needed (Unlike the DoW/M relics), so space will thankfully not be an issue for completionists.

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That's a smart idea. Worth finishing them all off then if I have a bit of spare time to burn. Will probably do one a week with Custom delivery scrips.

DoL tools do look decent. GP is less important than CP now you can hit 800 quite comfortably.

Relics after ARR are always catch up gear until the last patch*. I don't see Skysteel being any different.

Not even touching this content until it beats out my current tool. Right now, as OP suggested, it seems to be a catch up tool for those who do not have a fully melded facet or i470 scrip tool.

But not a single job I play gets two weapon slots in the armory. Especially crafters and gatherers.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I don't know, to me it feels like endgame crafters didn't get anything yet again and are meant to simply ignore this patch and "wait and see", which we've been doing the entire expansion so far and only got 10 days content out of it, but I don't want to derail into a rant or complaints.
How are you guys enjoying the patch as DoH/L and any feedback on what we have so far?

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They warned us up front that the Skysteel Tools would lag behind pentamelded crafted tools until the end of the expansion just as relic weapons lag behind so it's what I expected.

They're still good for those who don't want to pentameld their tools and so have less Craftsmanship melding to do to reach 2480. They can shift control into the sockets they would have used for Craftsmanship. I don't think the loss of the 6 CP is going to hurt those players if they're doing Master recipes.

I'm going to stick to my Facet tools for doing Expert. I'll gradually upgrade the Skysteel tools then toss them in my chocobo saddlebag until the next set up upgrades is released in 5.35 (or whenever).

Easy to craft, but fairly expensive when one considers that 500 white scrips gets you the vendor MH/OH (which are good enough for the casual crafter).

Was hoping we'd be able to craft an advanced glamour prism that reflected the equipped job glamour on our omni sets (as well as a nice looking tool).

Most of the post release content seems to be created by new devs; and is easy/basic.

I have no comment on them have never really been into relics. Doing one for my weaver but if I will take it all the way is up in the air.

For what you have to do to get them, they aren't that bad.

Yeah, okay, they're not as good as overmelded facet, but yet for casuals... 3-ish hours of work is not that bad.

The work is repetitive, but then most work is. And, you get an item that you can upgrade next patch if you just wait a bit so it's not bad, and of course, they look nice too.

I think it's okay for casual dandy:

( if the relic is for casuals play, then it does great job and is best relic content ever made, for normal easy going macro crafter ) 10/10 points

but: I am disappointed

Talking about whole philosophy and design

It looks to me that SE is blindly shooting ( like in ships game x, o, o, x, x )

One step forward and two backwards since end of HW ( boarding from all job changes and gameplay, and more )

Things gona change in the sake of changing

They will eventually have some kind of glow effect and temporarily be the best stat equip at the end of the current expansion, after what is warned to be a significant grind. Same like relic weapons.. it's going to turn into a timesink which won't be worth it for most people, but if you like glams and collecting things it's nice that they exist.

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Originally Posted by testname

I think it's okay for casual dandy:

( if the relic is for casuals play, then it does great job and is best relic content ever made, for normal easy going macro crafter ) 10/10 points

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Are they though? They're just 5ilv more than scrip and scrip tools are ridiculously cheap. Is anyone here actually using one and found it a useful upgrade? And are casuals actually having fun one button macro'ing 50 useless items as content?

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Are they though? They're just 5ilv more than scrip and scrip tools are ridiculously cheap. Is anyone here actually using one and found it a useful upgrade? And are casuals actually having fun one button macro'ing 50 useless items as content?

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Manual crafting the same 2 star item to HQ 50 times for me is annoying and not close to fun. Marco'ing it eliminates the annoying part, its still not fun but I can live that fact.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Are they though? They're just 5ilv more than scrip and scrip tools are ridiculously cheap. Is anyone here actually using one and found it a useful upgrade? And are casuals actually having fun one button macro'ing 50 useless items as content?

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You right, it takes for sure more time to get than scrip tool, but it's "Relic" and it is easy to get

It is blunt obvious that this Relic is for masses
( I made just one for myself to make my retainer happy of holding it in bag )

And for answering Your question about having fun, I think that the easier it is, the better ( I assume macro crowd just watching netflix or something - thus having fun while item is made itself )

beside relic for DoW/M is even funnier, and recent interview with Producer - makes me believe, that those relics will be more easy to get than anything before

Ranch style content will be cool too xD looking forward to it

Oh indeed, nothing against macros for these, more that it's 50 bland useless crafts.

But anyway, if the majority are actually happy with it then fair enough. It's an extra bonus from last expansion, where we just got regular crafted gear, so if I end up sticking to regular crafted gear I won't lose out much and can't complain. Just slightly disappointed that it's not endgame crafting. I hope they do something more with the Expert system soon.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Oh indeed, nothing against macros for these, more that it's 50 bland useless crafts.

But anyway, if the majority are actually happy with it then fair enough. It's an extra bonus from last expansion, where we just got regular crafted gear, so if I end up sticking to regular crafted gear I won't lose out much and can't complain. Just slightly disappointed that it's not endgame crafting. I hope they do something more with the Expert system soon.

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The acquisition of it is definitely not endgame crafting... this is expected though, much like how relic for the battle system is...

But to be fair, this is even MORE casual than battle relic... I think they should at least raise the difficulty by a little bit. It doesn't even require more than 350 CP for the first item... You can literally do it with level 70 gear... no, level 50...

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

The acquisition of it is definitely not endgame crafting... this is expected though, much like how relic for the battle system is...

But to be fair, this is even MORE casual than battle relic... I think they should at least raise the difficulty by a little bit. It doesn't even require more than 350 CP for the first item... You can literally do it with level 70 gear... no, level 50...

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Perhaps compared to prior combat relics but not this expansion's. It's extremely easy to get the 1000 poetics per weapon, especially if you do hunt trains.

I feel like I'm putting more effort into getting the Dragonsung tools than I am into getting the relic weapons.

Square Enix want relics feeling more accessible to all players this expansion. The excessive grinds may be a thing of the past.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Perhaps compared to prior combat relics but not this expansion's. It's extremely easy to get the 1000 poetics per weapon, especially if you do hunt trains.

I feel like I'm putting more effort into getting the Dragonsung tools than I am into getting the relic weapons.

Square Enix want relics feeling more accessible to all players this expansion. The excessive grinds may be a thing of the past.

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You're definitely right about how hunt train makes the new relic super easy.

That is another annoying thing though... hunt trains don't just happen every time when we log on, so I can't really control when to push poetics... which is really annoying to me. Yeah, daily roulettes give some good poetics too... trial gives 60 poe, normal raid gives 80 poe, 50/60/70 also gives at least 100 poe (I dunno if it gives more) but they only happen once a day. Expert and leveling don't give poetics. Main scenario absolutely sucks even though it gives 300... not worth the time. Blue mage is actually a very good source of poetics, but limited to only once a week... I don't like POTD... So, overall, poetics is the kind of thing that just naturally fills up to 2K a lot if you just do dailies, but if you wanna "push", there isn't much places where you can really "push". Do you know any other good sources of poetics that I can utilize?

Doing it for the eventual glam. Only reason to really do it. Going to take it nice and slow on these and push one out a day or so whenever I have time. It's stupid easy.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

Do you know any other good sources of poetics that I can utilize?

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Eureka used to be the fastest way to cap tomes for the week. I cant imagine(i havent been back this expansion) its giving out phanta or allegory, so that would mean poetics is the most likely reward.

As for how grindy the relic is, i think this first step is just acting as an appetizer. The patch notes even say that enhancing it further could take a large time investment.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

You're definitely right about how hunt train makes the new relic super easy.

That is another annoying thing though... hunt trains don't just happen every time when we log on, so I can't really control when to push poetics... which is really annoying to me. Yeah, daily roulettes give some good poetics too... trial gives 60 poe, normal raid gives 80 poe, 50/60/70 also gives at least 100 poe (I dunno if it gives more) but they only happen once a day. Expert and leveling don't give poetics. Main scenario absolutely sucks even though it gives 300... not worth the time. Blue mage is actually a very good source of poetics, but limited to only once a week... I don't like POTD... So, overall, poetics is the kind of thing that just naturally fills up to 2K a lot if you just do dailies, but if you wanna "push", there isn't much places where you can really "push". Do you know any other good sources of poetics that I can utilize?

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Non-crafter ARR/HW/SB beast tribe quests give Poetics (though you've got the 12 a day limit).

HW and SB treasure maps give Poetics (random amounts, 7-30) if you're willing to spend the gil to get multiple maps off the MB. I'm not sure if the HW/SB treasure dungeons are also giving poetics or if they're giving Phantasmagoria to level 80s. Some of those maps used to be dirt cheap on the MB (less than the gil reward you'd get for doing them in many cases). I don't know if the market has changed this week.

I wouldn't worry about pushing to get things done at this point. We've got at least 3 months to wait for 5.3 now if not longer depending on how long COVID keeps people isolated. Get the relic weapons you need for your main jobs and the rest will gradually come through the poetics you get from normal game play. The Dragonsung tools aren't a worry for those of us who already have our melded Facet tools. We can work on those over time.

It's always nice to have the little "chores" out of the way but we've got a long wait before the next set of upgrades will be added to the game. No need to stress out over getting them all right away.

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

You're definitely right about how hunt train makes the new relic super easy.

That is another annoying thing though... hunt trains don't just happen every time when we log on, so I can't really control when to push poetics... which is really annoying to me. Yeah, daily roulettes give some good poetics too... trial gives 60 poe, normal raid gives 80 poe, 50/60/70 also gives at least 100 poe (I dunno if it gives more) but they only happen once a day. Expert and leveling don't give poetics. Main scenario absolutely sucks even though it gives 300... not worth the time. Blue mage is actually a very good source of poetics, but limited to only once a week... I don't like POTD... So, overall, poetics is the kind of thing that just naturally fills up to 2K a lot if you just do dailies, but if you wanna "push", there isn't much places where you can really "push". Do you know any other good sources of poetics that I can utilize?

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Should mention that MSQ gives 500 poe overall, with a very high chance of 600. The roulette gives 300, the dungeons themselves give 200, and the new player bonus that you will usually get is another 100. Absolutely worth it for an easy 40min or so snoozefest. Also 24-man raid roulette gives 200 poe with another 100 poe if you get anything other than Copied Factory, and another 50 poe for the almost certain new player bonus. 8-man raid roulette gives 80 poe, but also has a 100 poe new player bonus. 50/60/70 roulette gives you 100 poe, with again a 50 poe new player bonus and maybe 10-20 extra poe depending on the dungeon. Expert, 80, levelling, trial, mentor do not give poetics, so just ignore them. If you do all four HW and SB beast tribes, that's another 180 poe per day.

So just doing that stuff(MSQ, 24-man, 8-man, 50/60/70 and 4 beast tribes) gets you more than 1 relic per day. Which is pretty damn fast. If you really want to get like, 3 relics per day or something, you'll need to do hunts, but I think a rate of 1 per day is fine. Don't forget the nice weekly poetic dump you can get from Wondrous Tales too. That's about two weeks and you're done with all 18 relics, assuming you had capped poetics going into the patch and basically got the first three relics for free. I've already got 6 relics myself and am not really grinding them at all.

Eureka is also an incredibly potent poetic source if you happen to be in there with other people spawning the NM's. I did a couple Eureka weapons post-SHB a bit ago and I was drowning in poetics. It's pretty crazy.

Thanks, Frizze, Jojoya & Espritduo! :)

So basically, apart from Hunt trains, Blue mage weekly challenges, normal raid rou, 50-60-70 rou and POTD (which I have no intention to do), the following are also good sources of poetics:
- Eureka,
- ARR/HW/SB beast tribe,
- perhaps I can handle some solo treasure maps too,
- MSQ rou (but I still dislike MSQ rou),
- Alliance rou is probably good too.
I tested Trial Rou 2x before in 2 days and it did give 60 poe each time. Perhaps it was from the trial itself, but not from roulette bonus?
Anyway, I have 4 relics so far. For skysteel tools, I have 5. There's no rush for them, so I'll get more gradually. Thanks! :)

EDIT:
- I found the 60 poe I got from Trial Rou was from newbie bonus. It IS a significant source of poe though, and is repeatable during the day independent of the daily rou quota, because newbies just very frequently appear in Trial Rou.
- Also, Stormblood's Kojin and Ananta beast tribes each give 15 poe per quest, whereas ARR beast tribe, such as Sahigan gives only up to 10 poe per quest. I haven't checked the Heavensward ones yet.

Either from the trial itself and/or the new player bonus (which would still be poetics for non-SHB trials). The trial roulette itself gives 60 Goetia and 15 allegory. It's quick, easy, and varied though, so might as well do it for flavor. :P

PvP, frontline daily challenge. The duty alone nets you 50 poe, 50 phant, 20 alle for 20 minuets or less.

I forget if the challenge gives poe or not. It does give the others. I ran it already and can't see the rewards.

Edit: New day, the frontline daily challenge gives 50 phant, 20 alle and 1000 wolf marks, no poe.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Not even touching this content until it beats out my current tool. Right now, as OP suggested, it seems to be a catch up tool for those who do not have a fully melded facet or i470 scrip tool.

But not a single job I play gets two weapon slots in the armory. Especially crafters and gatherers.

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Truuuuuuuust me... go ahead and do them. Unless you happen to love both crafting and gathering, your brain will dribble out your ears while you work on them. Especially the gathering part... particularly fishing. I haven't gotten around to doing part 2 of my gathering relics yet, and I can't think of anything more soul crushing than dealing with this grind on top of whatever the next grind will be. T_T

btn was a bit mindnumbing, spread over 3 days, probably between 5-7 hrs.
I used 300gp skill on bonus hq node (~69%) to force it to 100%, n then spammed 100gp yield+ skill.

min was quite easy in comparison bc the nodes freq spawn with +yield, freq 3, sometimes 5, it only took about 2 hours.
used 300gp +hq skill only, spammed it on the +yield nodes.

fsh wasn't terrible also, I did it the same day I did min.
just patience I, precise hook. both fish are single !, so it just a matter of sitting there burning cordials. I think it took about 450 bait for both in total.

The crafting can easily macro so nbd there.

Remember a Superior Spiritbond potion + Manual if you're doing the Min+Btn relics, might as well stock up extra materia for 5.3 while you're out there.

I've been doing these at a gradual pace to fill time. The fact you can set them aside in the Glamour Dresser makes it worth doing just to have them ready.

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Originally Posted by hqdm

btn was a bit mindnumbing, spread over 3 days, probably between 5-7 hrs.
I used 300gp skill on bonus hq node (~69%) to force it to 100%, n then spammed 100gp yield+ skill.

min was quite easy in comparison bc the nodes freq spawn with +yield, freq 3, sometimes 5, it only took about 2 hours.
used 300gp +hq skill only, spammed it on the +yield nodes.

fsh wasn't terrible also, I did it the same day I did min.
just patience I, precise hook. both fish are single !, so it just a matter of sitting there burning cordials. I think it took about 450 bait for both in total.

The crafting can easily macro so nbd there.

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I have nothing but venomous seething discontent for this games fishing. I have slowly...swallowed some of that hatered in attempt to level it further :(

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Originally Posted by hqdm

btn was a bit mindnumbing, spread over 3 days, probably between 5-7 hrs.
I used 300gp skill on bonus hq node (~69%) to force it to 100%, n then spammed 100gp yield+ skill.

min was quite easy in comparison bc the nodes freq spawn with +yield, freq 3, sometimes 5, it only took about 2 hours.
used 300gp +hq skill only, spammed it on the +yield nodes.

fsh wasn't terrible also, I did it the same day I did min.
just patience I, precise hook. both fish are single !, so it just a matter of sitting there burning cordials. I think it took about 450 bait for both in total.

The crafting can easily macro so nbd there.

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I actually found BTN to be easier than MIN since the nodes are so much closer clustering together. I think the procs really depends on luck. The procs for BTN was a lot better than MIN for me.

Anyway, all Dragonsung tools and all ShB relics done :) Now I'm just slowly doing Expert Recipes for achievements.

I like them because these tools won't cost me 3 million gil to pentameld. I mean let's face it- overmelding is very expensive.
So If I can spend one hour per crafting tool instead of 2-5 million gil per crafting tool, you can bet that's what I'm going to do.

+6 CP
+23 Control
-35 Craftmanship.

This right here is not worth the hundred failed melding attempts I'd need to get all of my tools overmelded. So from a practical standpoint, the Dragonsung win out.

I found BTN easier than MIN because I did MIN first and figured out how to best spend my GPs somewhat after I was half done.

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Originally Posted by Espritduo

Eureka is also an incredibly potent poetic source if you happen to be in there with other people spawning the NM's. I did a couple Eureka weapons post-SHB a bit ago and I was drowning in poetics. It's pretty crazy.

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This. Not only could I buy all the relict weapons while I was leveling in Eureka, I also earned enough Poetics for another Anima. It's incredibly how much Poetics you get there.