Is Summoner currently fun to play?

I don't really care about how well Summoner is performing currently as long as it's not the absolute worst by a large margin. I just care whether or not it's fun to play in it's current state. The job interests me for few reasons. Firstly, leveling Scholar along side it seems like nice benefit in case I want to give healing a shot and the class fantasy of being able to summon Bahamut just seems awesome. Also to a lesser extent just cause I find AoE DoTing satisfying so Bane seems nice.

Summoner has always been an interesting class. If you love dots and particle effects, you'll probably love the class

I've stuck through with Summoner for a long time now and it's in a much more enjoyable state than it was before 5.10 back when I did my initial review of the 5.0 job on youtube.

Summoner has one of the highest number of AoE sequences to consider due to target count, timers and what actions are presently available. That's a lot of fun to me than fewer, more repetitive options which I find more boring. Not to mention Firebird Trance and Demi-Enkindles are among the more satisfying actions to throw out there.

There's a bit of pet clunk to be mindful of and parts of the rotation not seemingly being that intuitive, but once you've got the flow down it's one of the more unique jobs. I have my website http://www.akhmorning.com/ with guide materials for players interested in the job - feel free to use it or ask us any questions in the channels over at the Balance discord!

Yes! :)

Early levels are a drag but max level is great fun indeed. Lots to do, big awesome effects that last, some utility, good mobility, and it's not completely braindead so it's not very easy to get bored. It's the only dps job I play and I don't feel the need for another.

If I had to explain the play style I'd say it's like playing in phases, cycling cooldowns. A teensy bit of planning ahead, managing a few things, mostly easy stuff once you get the hang of it though it may take a little bit to get fully used to. It has a pretty set pattern for the most part, no rng at all. It helps a lot to know when bosses become invulnerable or disappear so you don't waste a cooldown.

The dots kinda feel like an afterthought. For the most part they're applied with Tri-Disaster (it resets when you use DWT and Phoenix) and spread with Bane if needed, which at lvl 78 refreshes the duration on everything except your target. So easy to keep 'em rollin' it rarely feels like a chore but because of that they don't feel impactful. I do really enjoy the various layers of damage though.

I don't particularly enjoy Scholar but it is very nice to have at times.

From 2.0-4.55, I was more of a Healer, but Summoner was my go-to DPS. I'm now all-in on Dancer (which doesn't have anything to do with the way the job plays), and my experience with Summoner in 5.0 isn't as developed, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

The change from Egi Assaults being oGCD to GCD is a really nice change in my opinion. Before that, it felt like oGCD weaving hell, and even feels a little intense still. I imagine people who are spending all their time into Summoner are probably enjoying the busy rotation because it keeps you invested, but it would be nice if it was a tad bit more forgiving.

My biggest complain though is how disjointed it feels. You have five main categories of DPS tools: Ruin + Ruin II/IV Weaving, DoT Management, Aetherflow Actions (ED/ES + Fester/Painflare), Egi Assaults, and your Trance/Summoning Rotation. Most of these feel very disconnected, like your Aetherflow actions used to be a central component of the Summoner's kit, but now that it has nothing to do with the summoning rotation, it just feels like extra busy work that has nothing to do with the rest of our tools anymore, except DoTs and Fester. The Egi Assaults also feel like they're just kinda there, as well.

I want to see more cohesion within the kit so it's less all over the place and more focused. Not everything needs to all flow together in one giant machine. The DoTs and Tri-Disaster, for example, are fine as they are. I think it may be time to drop Aetherflow altogether since it's basically a vestigial limb at this point. I'd also be kinda into the idea of Egi Assaults replacing Ruin spells while your pet is summoned.

Also, could we maybe get some attacks from other primals? Like I'm not expecting us to summon egis or demis of primals like Ravana, Bismarck, or others, but what about oGCD attacks where we briefly summon those Primals in partial form for their signature attacks before they disappear? We could even have Aetherpact Change to Lakshmi's Alluring Embrace. Same effect, but more themed around actual summoning.

Again, I definitely have less experience with Summoner now more than ever, so my opinions aren't as useful as someone who's been maining it.

That's a question only you can really answer. Doesn't matter what anyone else says if you personally don't like the playstyle.

@ty_taurus That's true, its parts don't feel like they belong together anymore and if you don't spend much time with it it can be kinda overwhelming, but since there isn't any variation it kinda needs a lot to stay interesting for a while methinks (I enjoyed the ogcd weaving hell lol). It's probably not the best job to only play once in a while. It is a whole hell of a lot more forgiving than it used to be though.

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

@ty_taurus That's true, its parts don't feel like they belong together anymore and if you don't spend much time with it it can be kinda overwhelming, but since there isn't any variation it kinda needs a lot to stay interesting for a while methinks (I enjoyed the ogcd weaving hell lol). It's probably not the best job to only play once in a while. It is a whole hell of a lot more forgiving than it used to be though.

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I think the job just needs to be cleaned up from bottom up. Both Summoner and Scholar always feel like the Devs just kinda throw more things on top without spending a lot of time cleaning up what's underneath. Like Physick... Why is it just there? Like We don't need Vercure, but can't we just have it upgrade into literally anything else rather than it just sit there? I'd be fine with Aetherpact replacing it even. It just feels very disorganized for it to sit around.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I think the job just needs to be cleaned up from bottom up. Both Summoner and Scholar always feel like the Devs just kinda throw more things on top without spending a lot of time cleaning up what's underneath. Like Physick... Why is it just there? Like We don't need Vercure, but can't we just have it upgrade into literally anything else rather than it just sit there? I'd be fine with Aetherpact replacing it even. It just feels very disorganized for it to sit around.

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Yeah I know what you mean. They've done a little cleaning but I get the feeling they don't want to tear it apart all at once. It could be that they want to get rid of Aetherflow so first they detach it from DWT then remove it later so it's not as jarring for the players or as much work to rebalance, or they like it but aren't sure what to do with it because the new Phoenix is super awesome but having all this stuff connected is just too damn much, idk. Can only guess. All I know is it's mostly gotten better over time and hopefully that trend continues.

Was Physick ever useful? Maybe for healing pets before they were immune? Such a silly ability. I spam it when there's nothing to attack and it's just lol. Like some over-eager kid trying to help their parents but not actually helping and kinda just getting in the way. "Look ma look at me I'm halping look look!!" x.x

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

Yeah I know what you mean. They've done a little cleaning but I get the feeling they don't want to tear it apart all at once. It could be that they want to get rid of Aetherflow so first they detach it from DWT then remove it later so it's not as jarring for the players or as much work to rebalance, or they like it but aren't sure what to do with it because the new Phoenix is super awesome but having all this stuff connected is just too damn much, idk. Can only guess. All I know is it's mostly gotten better over time and hopefully that trend continues.

Was Physick ever useful? Maybe for healing pets before they were immune? Such a silly ability. I spam it when there's nothing to attack and it's just lol. Like some over-eager kid trying to help their parents but not actually helping and kinda just getting in the way. "Look ma look at me I'm halping look look!!" x.x

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From 1-49, caster gear grants you Intelligence and Mind regardless of role, so for a while it was useful. Once Casters drop Mind, though, Physick heals less than auto-attacks. Also I don't necessarily mean throw everything out and start fresh when I say clean it from the bottom up. If it were me, I'd start by identifying Summoner's current core, which I would say is the Demi-Primals and try to rebuild around that in some ways, adding elements that blend nicely with it and cutting out whatever feels completely irrelevant. Then fill in the blanks. The DoT's and Tri-Disaster, I think, make for good filler actions to give you something to do while your cool downs are all burned, even if that doesn't make up a ton of time currently, and Tri-Disaster is still loosely connected thanks to the CD reset when going into trance.

They used to be great. Before the terrible 5.0 job redesign, it was possible to tank through the pet and I found the job to be my favorite. Now, it's just alright...I have trouble playing the SUM without thinking back before 5.0 and missing what it used to be.

They simplified a lot with summoner, right now it's one of the top DPS Classes the last major balance adjustment got rid of 5 OGCD abilities that had to be weaved in their burst rotation along with a damage buff that put them from above RDM to above BLM. It was kinda a half-assed redesign but a lot of other classes received the same kind of treatment I'd say this expansion was more focused on story content then end game combat which is kind of a shame.

I think Summoner is still fun to play after 5.1 but it's pretty simplified. I still like 4.1 Summoner better though because of its flexibility and it rewarded you for playing smart. Old summoner in general also felt like everything in its toolkit actually meshed well with each other.

I’m always jealous of their phoenix fire. But have a biased against casters since they’re usually not my cup of tea. Red Mage being absurdly boring

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Originally Posted by Renkei

They simplified a lot with summoner, right now it's one of the top DPS Classes the last major balance adjustment got rid of 5 OGCD abilities that had to be weaved in their burst rotation along with a damage buff that put them from above RDM to above BLM. It was kinda a half-assed redesign but a lot of other classes received the same kind of treatment I'd say this expansion was more focused on story content then end game combat which is kind of a shame.

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You really should stop talking about matters you don't understand especially if you really think the current iteration is "simplified". EAs on the GCD easied CPM and weaving in the opener (4 OGCDs there btw). The job was already above RDM even when both were bottom of the barrel for DPS and even now both jobs are close in ST potential after 5.2. SMN is not above BLM in full uptime. The job's strengths right now are precisely why it's anything but simplified and why in certain cases it can have advantages.

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Originally Posted by Cythil

I don't really care about how well Summoner is performing currently as long as it's not the absolute worst by a large margin. I just care whether or not it's fun to play in it's current state. The job interests me for few reasons. Firstly, leveling Scholar along side it seems like nice benefit in case I want to give healing a shot and the class fantasy of being able to summon Bahamut just seems awesome. Also to a lesser extent just cause I find AoE DoTing satisfying so Bane seems nice.

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If you enjoy being a lock for every single raid group regardless of how skilled you are simply on the basis of playing summoner, sure.

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Originally Posted by Nemekh

You really should stop talking about matters you don't understand especially if you really think the current iteration is "simplified". EAs on the GCD easied CPM and weaving in the opener (4 OGCDs there btw). The job was already above RDM even when both were bottom of the barrel for DPS and even now both jobs are close in ST potential after 5.2. SMN is not above BLM in full uptime. The job's strengths right now are precisely why it's anything but simplified and why in certain cases it can have advantages.

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You should stop going out of the way to personally attack me in an attempt to gas light me over an opinion when you clearly have a bias to the class if you cannot agree to disagree with anybody like i know for a fact you cannot do - it shows how inflated your ego truly is you are welcome to your opinion but if you want to be so authoritarian about your outlook go for it but what you are doing is clear witch hunting and harassment, My Lodestone and information is private so your opinion isn't even based on any type of Educated information it is purely driven by your feelings.

looking at log information Summoner has a ton of advantages that other classes do not have, their CPM was cut down significantly inside of their burst window.


Patch 5.1 Notes : Your opener will see yourself pressing up to 6 buttons lesser at the first minute.

Having spoken to over a dozen summoners about this, some of them had mixed feelings about the balance changes some feel like the damage output is very welcome but are displeased with the simplification of the rotation, then there is some that defend that the changes are perfectly good for the class and nothing is wrong with the changes, then there is the ones that believe that the class needed a damage bonus with the old rotation and the class now is doing damage output similar to what it's old complex rotation should have done to begin with. My opinion of it is in the last opinion i feel like jobs with high complexity should benefit from higher damage output, i don't like the idea of simplification followed with a damage buff - this shows a lot of imbalance issues in end game content such as content that has Omni-Directional bosses where the damage bonuses from melee do not compete properly with the exception of Samurai as missing an positional is a very minor damage penalty, and having extreme rewards built into their kit with very little risk and high mobility.

I feel like this is the same with Summoner right now, and i honestly would much rather prefer people play what they like then worry about whether or not it is the absolutely best or not.

The Question you should be asking yourself OP is if you enjoy it more then the other classes and if you do then sure go for it.


So we are both wrong about the amount of abilities cut down in the rotation.

To primarily answer OP's question, any job is okay and fun as long as you enjoy it yourself, but additional to Summoner is that it is fun if you are willing to put in the time to understand its systems.


I'll have to disagree that Summoner has been simplified simply because of a reduction in CPM. The gap between a bad, okay and good Summoner has grown wider than it was in Stormblood as its systems have become a lot more involved. Gone are the days where setting your pet on Obey is practically sufficient to perform as Summoner, Egi Assaults are yet another cooldown to manage, and are gated in ways that are unique to the Summoner due to the pet system.

If we're comparing Summoner to other jobs, it's probably the least simplified job coming from Stormblood, and coming from pre-5.1 changes. Other jobs have received changes that alleviated a lot of their punishing aspects and lost a lot of their extraneous buttons that were a relic of the past.

Melee are simpler than ever, Ranged are still ranged albeit in need of adjustments, Healers and Tanks have had their rotations reduced that their players are asking for a return to some complexity. Casters are like Ranged in that aspect where they really didn't change coming to Stormblood, but Summoner needed the changes in 5.1 to reduce the overloaded kit they got in 5.0, for better or worse.

Damage-wise I've never been a strong believer that you can have a single quantity that defines how "difficult" a job is, nor that it should be a strong factor in its balancing.

Personally, I like SMN now more than pre 5.0, I couldn't really get into what it wanted, now, pretty much love the class, Don't like ressing though, so yeah, I do it anyway. Fun is always subjective soo there is no right answer to your question. Just give it a go a bit, it may grow on you or it may not. It's all up to you boo.

Personally, I think it's an absolute chore to play. Used to love SMN in XI or other titles and I really like that we got more summons but the pet changes are just bad and so are the million buttons you have to press. It feels gutted and clunky. Shame for such an iconic job. I hope Yoshi and his team can figure out what to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Personally, I think it's an absolute chore to play. Used to love SMN in XI or other titles and I really like that we got more summons but the pet changes are just bad and so are the million buttons you have to press. It feels gutted and clunky. Shame for such an iconic job. I hope Yoshi and his team can figure out what to do with it.

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Personally I like that it's a chore. The gameplay has always been about micromanagement and I like the feeling of being busy. Black Mage and especially Red Mage lacks that which ends up boring me due to how straightforward they are to play.

Admittedly, version 5.0 was too much and actually felt like a chore, though. Before that and past that (except 3.0) it's acceptable.

I don’t like where summoner is now. Yes, it’s one of the top dps jobs in the game if you know what you are doing. I love the job but a 2 minute opener is just ridiculous to me. Egi-assaults don’t even go off sometimes before you call a Demi-primal. It’s super clunky and all that. It’s my main dps job but I truly hope they give it a rework in 6.0. Honestly, I feel that summoner pets are going away in 6.0 and honestly I hope they do. They are a clunky mess.

Pet AI is bad and is arguably the worst part of the job atm, but when it comes to EAs and pet commands one should never EA before Bahamut nor FBT because of the pet withdraw and respawn system with pet swaps. In the vast majority of cases it will cause the EA or command to ghost entirely losing the Further Ruin stack, damage or other effects. I plan on making a larger post about pets, their bugs/AI and why they've not been a success over the years. I ultimately would not be sad to see this duct-taped relic of a pet system scrapped. The Summon Order system on top of the base pet gambits just makes it all worse.

Fwiw the core openers are technically 6 GCDs then it segues into a Bahamut rotation. 14 GCDs if we include the full Bahamut rotation since His window ending is when the opener infusion is about to fade. We did meme hard about the 2 minute prepull opener, but in reality and in practice it's far from 2 minutes and not unlike the openers other DPS jobs have to contend with. What SMN always has had is a lot of abilities to get on cooldown asap to start spinning all the plates - people would call them piano openers, yet once they're done it's back to quiet filler.

Maybe I just have a high tolerance for bad things, but I fairly enjoy the current iteration of Summoner. I don’t know anything about dps values or raid viability and balance, so I just mean in terms of the actual job itself.

Part of me likes the way Summoner cycles through trances and Bahamut / Phoenix. Egi actions feel a bit less annoying than before at the very least lol, it doesn’t feel like I’m shouting commands at the Egi and getting a blank stare in return. I like that Summoner has some utility stuff too like Raise, Devotion, Addle since it feels like I can contribute in a more diverse way (actual rDPS values aside lol). I feel like they developers are still trying to channel some of the Arcanist’s ‘tactical’ roots with abilities like this, even if it that does exactly come through. Aesthetically it’s still one of my favourite jobs, I think the spells and summons all look pretty cool, though obviously Egis could stand to look a bit less...formless lol.

At the same time though, it can feel a bit like a conveyor belt (for want of a better word lol). You’re just cycling through the same abilities in the same order for the most part, and there’s not really any freedom to decide. Like, wouldn’t it be cool if you could decide whether to summon Bahamut and Phoenix? Aetherflow feels weird since it’s happening behind Trances instead of being linked to them, so it’s like having these two disjointed job gauges that both want your attention right now, but there’s only so many oGCDs you can do at the one time lol.

Overall I like Summoner how it is now, it certainly isn’t perfect, but then I think every job has its ‘pros and cons’, so I wouldn’t worry too much about it if you play a job and think ‘couldn’t this be better?’. It’s natural to want to improve something you like I guess

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Personally I like that it's a chore. The gameplay has always been about micromanagement and I like the feeling of being busy. Black Mage and especially Red Mage lacks that which ends up boring me due to how straightforward they are to play.

Admittedly, version 5.0 was too much and actually felt like a chore, though. Before that and past that (except 3.0) it's acceptable.

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Yeah, I get what you're saying. I like challenging jobs. It's just that for me SMN just doesn't feel that way. It's more like it got changed so much that we have a mess of a job left. Pets not being targetable for instance. Or that I can't decide whether I want to summon Bahamut or Phoenix. I'm also not a big fan of DoTs on SMN. Really tried to like it and got it to lvl 80 in ShB (I try to switch mains every expansion) but it's just not for me, sadly.

Honestly, XI's version was way better in how adaptable it was. 2.0 retained it to a degree but now... I dunno.

I'm actually surprised that SMN wasn't simplified (also not a fan of that) since healers and tanks got hit hard this expac. Haha

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

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To each their own. Though, I don't think current Summoner is perfect and I want to see it become less clunky, more Summoner-like and have more variety in gameplay like being able to pick the Demi summon (with different uses this time than being Bahamut > Better Bahamut) that's appropriate in the current situation. DoTs meanwhile are becoming more and more of an afterthought with the job and I wouldn't be too surprised if they outright remove it next expansion, especially due to unpopularity.

Personally I was never a fan of FFXI Summoner's gameplay but it did pull off the summoning part at least. I just prefer the Trances, incredibly strong but temporary summons and the fast-paced action of FFXIV's version a lot more.

Also I think Summoner right now is a bit more straightforward to play (not simplified like I said before) than the older iterations for how strict the rotation is and how mobile it's been. Back then you had some time to hold off on abilities without DPS loss which was an accidentally smart job design on SE's part, and there's some tactical planning in it that's mostly absent now.

I think SMN has all the right tool currently, just needs to be reshuffled to make the job flow. Sadly that isn't going to happen till 6.X series...

I have a bit of a radical idea for how I'd like to see Summoner redesigned, so here's the overview in parts and you guys can share whether this is an awesome idea or a horrible one...

First, Summon II and III are removed. You only have Summon which always will bring your Carbuncle to your side (with more colors so that players can pick their favorite color). Egis in the current sense are no more (but not entirely removed). Carbuncle now attacks you as you cast spells on enemies, similarly to Wyrmwave with hopefully less bugginess. Carbuncle only gets replaced when you Demi-Summon. At level 15, Ruby Light replaces Summon II (which is Titan's barrier spell for tanking. I've thought about trying to have a targetable Carbuncle for Summon II but I feel like it would just get messy), and at level 50, Enkindle is replaced with Shining Ruby, a simple oGCD attack that shares a recast timer with Ruby Light. Perhaps both are stackable to 2 stacks and have a 30 second cool down. All of this is shared.

Instead of getting the egis, Ruin gets replaced with Egi Flame when obtaining Summoner. Egi Flame summons Ifrit-Egi for a brief swing of his claw before he disappears. Ruin II gets replaced with Egi Crush with Titain-Egi, and Outbreak gets replaced with Egi Cyclone. Your Egis are now your basic spells instead of Ruin. Later, these spells will get upgraded to summon a portion of Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda rather than their Egi form. You don't see their entire model, but a part of their model from a glyph you create a-la Yuna in Dissidia 012.

Dreadwyrm Trance now temporarily changes these to more powerful versions of your basic spells, but instead of Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan, you summon Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva for these attacks during Dreadwyrm Trance, and then you can summon Demi-Bahamut. During Firebird Trance, these get replaced with even stronger attacks from Bismark, Ravana, and Thordan.

Fester and Painflare are upgraded to attacks from Susano-o and Tsukiyomi later in levels, and Aetherpact is changed to Alluring Embrace from Lakshmi. Fester and Painflare as well as their upgrades would no longer be connected to Energy Drain/Syphon which would both be removed. Instead, they're just oGCD attacks, but would add power to your aether gauge for summoning and trancing--a more simplified version of what Stormblood's Summoner was like. All your summoning attacks would charge this gauge outside of carbuncle attacks.

Your Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan spells would be changed to attacks from Demi-Bahamut and Demi-Phoenix while those demis are summoned, and their attacks like Enkindle Bahamut would replace Shining Ruby, while an alternative barrier/heal perhaps would replace Ruby Light.

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Originally Posted by Cythil

I just care whether or not it's fun to play in it's current state.

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You are the only one that can decide this.

I've heard a lot of people love it but I have yet to get back into it despite it being my favorite job in Stormblood. It's just really unclear what the rotation and all the guides are designed around level 80 so it's just chilling at level 70.

I actually had a whole long answer typed out on why I love Summoner after doing a whole tier of raiding on it this expansion since the rework and then as I was going over a cons of it I came to the realization... I actually DONT think Summoner is fun. I think it is incredibly rewarding to play at a high level and from that I get a lot of enjoyment out of it when I preform well. I very much loved Heavensward Summoner and found it to be fun in all ways. I felt the same about post rework Summoner in Stormblood. I detested Summoner in it's form before the most recent rework for Shadowbringers, but certain changes removed several frustrations I had with the class and the buffs made it so that the work you did made the effort you put in feel worth it.

But I don't get the same enjoyment of it that I did before, where I would just jump on it for just the funnies in expert and 24 man because I just WANTED to play the class, which is what I do now with Black Mage and Samurai. I raid on it because I still do like the aesthetics of the class (Phoenix for the win), I'm displeased with my old main job's changes in ShB (Bard), and the class I feel does reward me for the effort it asks for and hold a very well rounded role on any good raid static. But that doesn't = fun. The rotation still to me feels incredibly disjointed unlike 3.x and 4.x Summoner which felt like an absolute dream. It still has numerous issues with Pet AI that while I can compensate for, just makes me wish they would do away with Egi's entirely and turn to a rotation that features the Demi summons and makes them the primary feature of the job. It still feels incredibly clunky where I'm having to do things that go against my normal DPS mindset to make sure I'm getting out the most amount of Wyrmwaves and Scarlet Flames. It still is absolutely dumb that Bahamut/Phoenix still FOLLOWS ME AROUND LIKE A DAMN LOST PUPPY WHEN IT SHOULD BE EASY TO JUST MAKE IT SIT FREAKING STILL WHILE I MOVE!!!

This is of course all in the eye of the beholder. I know some people who absolutely love the job and feel it's never been better than now. But for me the constant annoyances of the class still put it in a place where I can't say I find it fun. But in it's favor none of those annoyances I find game breaking. It's not like MCH where ping makes me hate my life and not want to play it. It's not like Bard where I feel like I'm playing flight of the bumble bee and I'm getting nothing for it while other jobs sing ABC's and do more. It's not like Monk where I feel the job is conceptually just BROKEN at it's core. It just has more to do going into the next expansion to continue to clean up the mess that the initial rework caused.

I enjoy Summoner. The only thing I don't like about it is how floaty it feels, for lack of a better term. This has always been the case with it, however, and is due to the multiple sources of damage that just sort of accrue over time unlike with RDM and especially BLM which feel much more visceral and immediate. At the end of a fight or a trash pull I never have a sense of how much damage I did as a Summoner unless I look at a parse and it's usually higher than I expected based on what it felt like, whereas with BLM and RDM I definitely feel like I'm doing the damage and I'm never surprised by their parse numbers if I look at them.

As for actual gameplay, the rotation is it's best place right now where the full rotation only takes 2 mins instead of the 3 of StormBlood and we can now effectively start it 40s into it since we can open with Trance. Moving pet skills to the GCD iin the last patch was a good change and makes it feel less Ruin spammy. The only thing I would really want right now would be immobile dem-summons or at least ones that can move and attack at the same time. Aetherflow is just kind of there now too, but I prefer its current state to before where it gated your rotation.

I am enjoying smn currently, but don't have much more to add that others haven't already mentioned. Its not the best it could be, but I see ideas being fleshed out for it and also hope they just go with demi rotations in the future. Though, I swill wish they would make our version of physik useful in the future, for example like adding an esuna effect (my reasoning for that is if we start off being debuffing arcanists with poisons and miasma, you'd think lore wise we would also learn to remove those debuffs) but thats just a minor wish so that all of our skills have a use, even if it is niche.

I think it's quite risky to give Summoner a better Physick (with an added Esuna effect) or any more support abilities because Summoner right now is pretty good at a lot of things compared to other DPS. It also has the risk of being too similar with Red Mage. They both already have a Raise and a party buff, only thing unique about both is one has a reliable direct heal, the other has better damage.

Personally, Summoner doesn't need any more support abilities when all of that can be Red Mage's to justify their standing on the DPS totem pole.

It's very easy to try and start justifying everything with lore based on what we feel is in flavour but this doesn't lead to what's necessarily innovative nor balanced. We really do not need Physick bolstered.

It was more like a pipe dream, definitely don't think its needed or will happen. Sorry if I wasn't clear :)

Quite fun tbh
My only dislike is the ruin2 spam during Bahamut. I hope we'll get a trait that enhance ruin2 during that window. (Purely visual dislike)

I also wish we had a reason to rotate our ego. Perhaps they'll entirely remove them and put them back as temporary demi in 6.0 ( hopefully with slight gameplay variation between each)

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

My biggest complain though is how disjointed it feels. You have five main categories of DPS tools: Ruin + Ruin II/IV Weaving, DoT Management, Aetherflow Actions (ED/ES + Fester/Painflare), Egi Assaults, and your Trance/Summoning Rotation. Most of these feel very disconnected, like your Aetherflow actions used to be a central component of the Summoner's kit, but now that it has nothing to do with the summoning rotation, it just feels like extra busy work that has nothing to do with the rest of our tools anymore, except DoTs and Fester. The Egi Assaults also feel like they're just kinda there, as well.

I want to see more cohesion within the kit so it's less all over the place and more focused. Not everything needs to all flow together in one giant machine. The DoTs and Tri-Disaster, for example, are fine as they are. I think it may be time to drop Aetherflow altogether since it's basically a vestigial limb at this point. I'd also be kinda into the idea of Egi Assaults replacing Ruin spells while your pet is summoned.

Also, could we maybe get some attacks from other primals? Like I'm not expecting us to summon egis or demis of primals like Ravana, Bismarck, or others, but what about oGCD attacks where we briefly summon those Primals in partial form for their signature attacks before they disappear? We could even have Aetherpact Change to Lakshmi's Alluring Embrace. Same effect, but more themed around actual summoning.

Again, I definitely have less experience with Summoner now more than ever, so my opinions aren't as useful as someone who's been maining it.

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I completely agree with everything you just said. The job feels alot more quantity over quality, and you are spot on when you said that certain mechanics feel "tacked on" because... why? SMN is the job I always have the most in depth conversations about with friends, and how it could be changed and improved but your ideas are actually the best i've heard so far.