Beginning to really hate pvp

Mainly due to the enforced freelancer. I haven't had a win in ages, which is disheartening.
Got really excited thinking that we'd won, but it was the company from the duty beforehand. When we change I keep seeing the company I lost with last time win this time....
I swear its still just premades clearing up. Not I'm not even seeing the same faces/building up comraderie in a gc due to the enforced changes....

Win rate *should* be 33% on average. That said in order to get the 100 wins for the mount I had to play 10 games a day for about a month to get the Construct VII mount.

The Forced Freelancer is there because the Original Matchmaking had you que in with your chosen Grand Company. And either not enough people were trying to que in between all 3, or the bulk of the Good Players were on one Grand Company (for the longest time it was the Twin Adder) and it created a weird unfair balance issue. At least every game I was in, the Twin Adder were the best, and the Maelstrom was the worse.

I like PvP myself...but my goodness is it frustrating.

I just ignore PvP as a whole. I just do my daily, and that's it.

PvE in this game is absolutely amazing, but PvP has to be one of the worst i've experienced so far. There's no thrill to it, and even the frontline map itself is badly designed in my opinion. I wish we would just have a map with fixed points that your alliance would need to capture and hold in order to get to the final objective, or something like that. This exists in a majority of games and is way more interesting than the current mode we have (or so i think).

The current frontline feels like a PvP sandbox mode that was made over night to satisfy players who kept requesting an alliance PvP mode.

And yes, i agree that the freelancer thing also makes it even more uninteresting. In other games i've played, rivalry made things more exciting. You would know when playing against a certain guild or alliance that certain famous names would be there, and you were looking forward to fight them, even if the odds were against you.

Overall i feel like the devs had too many dilemmas to deal with, and that by trying to please everyone, they ended up building something that the majority of the playerbase is not attracted to at all.

I know maelstrom wins most on my server. I would look to see which grand company wins the most and join them for pvp.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

...which grand company wins the most and join them...

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That is the reason for forced freelance: too much people wants the "easy" way and will join the "right" GC for that. With freelance that is no more.

There still is the premade issue but better than nothing. Quite sad to see full 4 ppl groups go feed another GC clearly on purpose but no ground for any report.

I just ignore PvE as a whole. I just do my daily, and that's it.

PvP in this game is absolutely amazing, but PvE has to be one of the worst i've experienced so far. There's no thrill to it, and even the savage trials itself is badly designed in my opinion. I wish we would just have a savage/extreme trials which are not scripted and memorized but actually required some skill like PvP. Everything in PvE can be quickly memorized and copy pasted to make constant clears, this is beyond casual level. There is no real difficulty in it whatsoever besides memorizing boss moves.

But in all seriousness:

PvP in FF14 is:
- The Feast - in my opinion the most personal skill based mode where you can actually prove how good you are with your job.
- Frontlines - meme, just a meme for yikes and fun
- Rival Wings - same as above, have fun and work on your job, but with more seriousness

A lot of times when I see people talking about pvp in ff14 - they only know FL, whenever I ask if they tried other modes, I hear either "no, I didn't tried them" or even more funny answers - "are there any other modes?".

@OP: If you hate FL so much but would like to enjoy PvP, you are welcome to try Feast, I recommend that.

I enjoy PvP, and frontlines, and I try to focus on self-improvement as fulfillment over whether or not my team gets first. That said, wow players can be dumb as bricks. I don't even ask that they play their job super amazingly or anything though sometimes you just get an alliance deadset on going after who ever is in second or third place with absolutely no interest in fighting for objectives. They don't check the map. They don't check the score situation. The worst of mob mentality just leads them unto oblivion.

I will put only some of the blame on the game's poor UI and explanations. Figure when you load into a frontline battleground, for example, you would get a screen with a tl;dr of the instructions, with a "Don't show me this again" checkbox, and something way better/cleaner than the guide popups this game tries to use. Can also do a better job of describing things in-game. Like, when you mouse over an ovoo, the tooltip should say how much it's worth to capture it. There's only few of them available at any given time so put waymarks on the general UI at all times. Just little icons on the edge of your screen where they are related to where you are facing.

Like this is just very basic multiplayer game stuff... Not sure where they went so wrong. Similarly the information on the website has so much useless nonsense before the crucial details. Should have a concise, executive summary, of the main points, right at the top, before getting into this verbose nonsense that doesn't sound vaguely like a human explaining to other humans. Also the problems of relying on the website to convey information: stuff like how melee/tanks take 30% less damage and deal 15% more damage in frontlines can only be found there. If people knew about that they would be making way better decisions in engagements.

A lot of this is an attack on frontlines, though could also apply to Rival Wings. Feast is in a nice place.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

I know maelstrom wins most on my server. I would look to see which grand company wins the most and join them for pvp.

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This is probably why this thread is best served in the PvP section - the GC you are in does not matter in PvP anymore and hasn't for a few months now.

Another reason being you post in here all you're going to get is straight self validation and every negative of PvP possible and it's not going to motivate you in the slightest.

Honestly I've never enjoyed pvp in this game myself. When I want a glam form pvp I'll suffer through it, usually going whm and trying to heal people since I really have no idea what I'm doing beyond that. But if not for the pvp exclusive glams, hairstyles, mounts etc I'd probably never touch it.

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Originally Posted by Enma_Ookami

I just ignore PvE as a whole. I just do my daily, and that's it.

PvP in this game is absolutely amazing, but PvE has to be one of the worst i've experienced so far. There's no thrill to it, and even the savage trials itself is badly designed in my opinion. I wish we would just have a savage/extreme trials which are not scripted and memorized but actually required some skill like PvP. Everything in PvE can be quickly memorized and copy pasted to make constant clears, this is beyond casual level. There is no real difficulty in it whatsoever besides memorizing boss moves.

But in all seriousness:

PvP in FF14 is:
- The Feast - in my opinion the most personal skill based mode where you can actually prove how good you are with your job.
- Frontlines - meme, just a meme for yikes and fun
- Rival Wings - same as above, have fun and work on your job, but with more seriousness

A lot of times when I see people talking about pvp in ff14 - they only know FL, whenever I ask if they tried other modes, I hear either "no, I didn't tried them" or even more funny answers - "are there any other modes?".

@OP: If you hate FL so much but would like to enjoy PvP, you are welcome to try Feast, I recommend that.

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Jeez ... I didn't mean to hurt you and i'm sorry if i did :/

I'm originally a PvP player myself, and i don't think FFXIV's PvP is good in its current state. That said, i agree that frontlines specifically is not doing justice to the devs' work, as it is just a giant mess.

For me PvP has always been about rivalry between factions/guilds, and huge, persisting maps where you could jump in and out anytime to get score for your side. It's just the whole idea of getting in a big "PvP area" and not knowing what to expect from other factions that i found thrilling. I liked that people from opposing guilds/factions could provoke you in town, and you would just say "FINE, LET'S SETTLE THIS ON THE BATTLEFIELD NOOBS", and you would bring your guildmates with you, and it would ultimately escalate to a huge GvG chaos that would last for hours.
This is the kind of stuff that i miss in FFXIV. I wish PvP felt more "connected" to the rest of the game, and that we could access it freely, without having to go through DF queues and requirements every time.

Personally, I never really liked PvP to begin with in this game. I think they only have it just so they can say they have it.

Imo it wouldn't be a bad idea for SE to invest more in pvp. New players would then be able to do something interesting combat wise before reaching higher levels/endgame.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Imo it wouldn't be a bad idea for SE to invest more in pvp. New players would then be able to do something interesting combat wise before reaching higher levels/endgame.

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PvP wouldn't teach them to do much of anything though except ignore mechanics and kill things, which is what the majority of my experiences have been...people doing exactly that.

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Originally Posted by Kraniel

Jeez ... I didn't mean to hurt you and i'm sorry if i did :/

I'm originally a PvP player myself, and i don't think FFXIV's PvP is good in its current state. That said, i agree that frontlines specifically is not doing justice to the devs' work, as it is just a giant mess.

For me PvP has always been about rivalry between factions/guilds, and huge, persisting maps where you could jump in and out anytime to get score for your side. It's just the whole idea of getting in a big "PvP area" and not knowing what to expect from other factions that i found thrilling. I liked that people from opposing guilds/factions could provoke you in town, and you would just say "FINE, LET'S SETTLE THIS ON THE BATTLEFIELD NOOBS", and you would bring your guildmates with you, and it would ultimately escalate to a huge GvG chaos that would last for hours.
This is the kind of stuff that i miss in FFXIV. I wish PvP felt more "connected" to the rest of the game, and that we could access it freely, without having to go through DF queues and requirements every time.

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I had fun with that kind of large scale world pvp in WoW back in the day. I really don't think FFXIV could handle it though. It just wasn't built for outdoor random pvp.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

PvP wouldn't teach them to do much of anything though except ignore mechanics and kill things, which is what the majority of my experiences have been...people doing exactly that.

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You can get into pvp at level 30 now can't you? A bit into ARR but not super long. I think people that enjoy pvp (I mean really enjoy it not people like me that pop in now and then because we want a glam/mount etc) are in the minority though.

I have a love/hate relationship with PvP. I think it'd be a lot more interesting and enjoyable if it were limited to two teams fighting it out. I'd also like to see battle high removed and replaced with a bonus to experience and wolf marks received at the end of a match.

As for ranked PvP, I think it needs more rewards for participation. It's in dire need of fresh blood to help alleviate queue times and some meaningful incentives for those who don't make the top one hundred would go a long way towards encouraging engagement.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I have a love/hate relationship with PvP. I think it'd be a lot more interesting and enjoyable if it were limited to two teams fighting it out. I'd also like to see battle high removed and replaced with a bonus to experience and wolf marks received at the end of a match.

As for ranked PvP, I think it needs more rewards for participation. It's in dire need of fresh blood to help alleviate queue times and some meaningful incentives for those who don't make the top one hundred would go a long way towards encouraging engagement.

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Personally, I'd be more open to trying ranked PvP if I knew I was getting something for my time. It'd just have to be one heck of a carrot on the end of that stick. I'm not going to ask for the top 100 rewards to be removed, but maybe participation (say, 50 matches win or lose) could net people the latest ranked outfit, while the top 100 gets the outfit, mount and a title regardless of the number of matches they've played.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Personally, I'd be more open to trying ranked PvP if I knew I was getting something for my time. It'd just have to be one heck of a carrot on the end of that stick. I'm not going to ask for the top 100 rewards to be removed, but maybe participation (say, 50 matches win or lose) could net people the latest ranked outfit, while the top 100 gets the outfit, mount and a title regardless of the number of matches they've played.

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This would get me to at least try out ranked. Though I don't know that I'd stick with it.

You know something, I was recently starting to feel like whatever squad I'm on seems to lose a vast majority of the matches I've been in lately and was shocked to see when I actually looked at my pvp stats on the lodestone that I have way more 1st and 2nd place finishes than 3rd place finishes, and now, I'm fine with that. I think what I was allowing myself to feel was that Ricky Bobby mentality "if you're not first, you're last", so not only 3rd place finishes, but also 2nd place finishes were feeling like losses, and I was getting sick of not "winning"...This is only regarding Frontline by the way, and as big as a fustercluck as Frontline usually is, I've grown to be much happier if I just get a competent enough group to not finish in 3rd. LOL Sure, winning is good for working your way toward mounts or whatever, but I guess that's not really why I'm doing Frontline. It's just a side bonus that I WILL get eventually, it might just take awhile, and that's fine.

I agree with what a lot that's been said here. Even though there are a lot of modes, many of them seem to result in most of the same outcomes when it comes down to the gameplay aspect. It's usually a clusterfuck that either has people waiting for nodes to spwan or just players zerging eachother ignoring the actual mechanics of PVP. I do enjoy the feast a bit though due to the fact that it's on a much smaller scale.

Honestly, all I want is the Commander's Coat but I've pretty much given up on that. I can't even bear the thought of having to the requirements for that.

People stacking GCs to improve their chances of winning is the reason Forced Freelancer was introduced.

Either you deal with the fact that everyone will now have a 33% winrate or dont queue at all.

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Originally Posted by Renato

Honestly, all I want is the Commander's Coat but I've pretty much given up on that. I can't even bear the thought of having to the requirements for that.

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They will eventually add Seal Rock and the other maps back into the daily rotation queue again. I was hoping they would do it with 5.2 but it was apparently too early. They will mostly likely wait until a significant amount of people has the new mount from Onsal Hakair.