Final Fantasy XI based 24 man raid

Had an idea taking to FC. I think a 24 man raid based in Vana'diel would be cool. It's already been established as a different dimension, it could be a shard world in the lore. And it would be a easy way to introduce people who never played 11 to the lore and give vets something cool to play and a nostalgia trip.

Honestly, I'd like the 24 man raids to start standing on their own feet again and work with/expand mostly XIV specific lore instead of borrowing heavily from other mediums.

Crystal Tower was loosely based on FF III lore (And ended up playing a huge role in the future), while the Mhach raids were entirely their own thing. Ivalice on the other hand basically inserted FFT and XII's lore into XIV's world while the Nier raid is essentially continuing one of Nier Automata's endings/timelines and it remains to be seen if it'll end up playing into the bigger picture at all.

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Originally Posted by Ryutamashiisan

It's already been established as a different dimension, it could be a shard world in the lore.

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If you are referring to the crossover events, then they are strictly non-canon. As for the idea itself, I have to echo the above opinion. FFXIV has so much of its own lore that is unexplored and I would love to see more of that than another cheap fanservice dungeon. We learned so much about the history of Eorzea in the Mhach series, and I would love more stories like that.

i would be alright with it
but i definitely would like raids to be there own thing and not "remember this" like most the game is

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Originally Posted by Duskane

i would be alright with it
but i definitely would like raids to be there own thing and not "remember this" like most the game is

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I feel like XIV largely does a good job of avoiding this.

I don't think there's anything wrong with including iconic entities from throughout the series like Ruby Weapon and Quetzlcotl (To name some more recent examples) or re-using the names of iconic characters/locales as long they're altered enough to feel like their own thing as opposed to feeling as though they were literally just copy-pasted in.

The Ivalice raids were the most guilty of this overall. I didn't really mind the Omega raids being 90% fanservice because it was largely detached from the rest of the world/story, whereas they basically just dumped entire locales from FFT/XII into the setting for the sake of telling a story that seems to be almost entirely irrelevant to the greater scheme of things (Only the stinger at the end seems liable to matter going into the future) on top of doing little to build on any established lore.

I still want a Chrono Trigger & Chrono Cross themed raid. You would think because it's a Square property and probably their best non-Final Fantasy game of all time(at least Chrono Trigger is) that would make it an easy decision. I could see several ways to tie it in. Especially, because it involves time travel and multiple dimensions. That is like the bread and butter of this game so far haha.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I feel like XIV largely does a good job of avoiding this.

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Initially they did, but I feel like it has taken a nosedive since Stormblood. The Crystal tower as a concept has become its own thing in XIV, with the questline following unique characters and taking on a life of its own in shadowbringers (not to mention the allagan connections giving it a place in eorzean history). The ivalice raids and Nier raid however did this terribly, literally bringing in characters from those games in promenant roles, and introducing races and concepts such as Bangaa, Viera, seeq, and androids simply for fanservice, and planting them firmly and canonically in the world.

Just look at what the garlean empire has become since stormblood, it had its own aesthetic up until 4.X, but then it just became the FFVI empire, complete with all of the model swaps, and to me that was really jarring. Look no further than the fact that we rarely see the 2.X magitek armor anymore, its replaced with the FFVI predator version.

I'm not really going to be concerned unless they start putting stuff like that in the MSQ, personally.

The game still largely relies on its own lore in that regard.

I want more Nier :3

We already had two FFXI-themed crossovers (special limited-time events, and both were FATEs - one featured a giant Shantotto, the other had FATEs that were references to FFXI in general, like 'Dooms' parties against robber crabs on a beach, one against a Dark Dragon and ahriman, Kindred outside a haunted house... and Serkhet...), so I don't see a FFXI-themed raid line as well.

Besides, Eureka is meant to emulate much of FFXI meta-wise and even has actual music from FFXI (and drops FFXI race minions to boot!), so that's another nail in the coffin to a FFXI-themed raid I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm not really going to be concerned unless they start putting stuff like that in the MSQ, personally.

The game still largely relies on its own lore in that regard.

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Dalmascan representatives are mentioned as part of Hien's Othardian Alliance in Stormblood. I was fine with it being it's own thing, but as soon as this scene happened, Ivalice was present in the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by testname

I want more Nier :3

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Hate to be that guy, but if you want more Nier then go play Nier, or ask Yoko Taro for a new Nier game.

I'd rather have a Sin or as much as I hate it Lcie themed one. As much As I love windburst,real summoning and real magic users in ffxi bringing it into this game with this games bad system (for final fantasy) outside ff its great but as a ff the game is meha. So unless we can accidently heal bosses,use healing to kill undead and summon our masters Primals just No to bringing in Xi as it would be an insult to ffxi.

Honestly Id prefer them to take the game they are making and top saying disney won't let them they made it so they got controll of it and do something kingdom hearts related -does have ff characters so can be worked with--

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Dalmascan representatives are mentioned as part of Hien's Othardian Alliance in Stormblood. I was fine with it being it's own thing, but as soon as this scene happened, Ivalice was present in the MSQ.

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Just to clarify, that's FFXIV's own Dalmasca/Ivalice, not that of FFXII/Tactics. Everything that FFXIV uses is their own version, not that of the original source. The only two potential exceptions are Gilgamesh (for reasons I am not sure I fully accept, but have heard about) and Yorha (but only because the author may tie it to Nier Automata, but 2B's appearance may indicate only a loose connection).

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Originally Posted by linay

Just to clarify, that's FFXIV's own Dalmasca/Ivalice, not that of FFXII/Tactics. Everything that FFXIV uses is their own version, not that of the original source. The only two potential exceptions are Gilgamesh (for reasons I am not sure I fully accept, but have heard about) and Yorha (but only because the author may tie it to Nier Automata, but 2B's appearance may indicate only a loose connection).

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But as we established, that is the Dalmasca shown in the raid, which takes all the fanservice from the Ivalice games and shoehorns it into XIV.

By mentioning that raid in the MSQ, it makes all of that shoehorned fanservice canon.

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Originally Posted by linay

Just to clarify, that's FFXIV's own Dalmasca/Ivalice, not that of FFXII/Tactics. Everything that FFXIV uses is their own version, not that of the original source. The only two potential exceptions are Gilgamesh (for reasons I am not sure I fully accept, but have heard about) and Yorha (but only because the author may tie it to Nier Automata, but 2B's appearance may indicate only a loose connection).

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The thing is that XIV's version of Ivalice easily does the least to differentiate itself from the source material compared to the myriad other references to past FFs. The various Ivalice races just suddenly existed (They bothered giving the Viera and Nu Mou a background that made them feel natural within the world, while the Bangaa and Seeq are just kind of...there and are liable to never show up again), the Ramza of old and his friends were basically the same people they were in FFT, and the lucavi existed for somewhat ill-explained reasons that may never actually matter going into the future.

Crystal Tower did a better job of taking elements from FF III and working to make them fit within XIV's setting, with the namesake tower being an Allagan creation, Xande being the emperor of ancient Allag, and the Cloud of Darkness simply being one of the strongest voidsent in existence as opposed to a force of nature that appears to restore equilibrium between light/dark.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

But as we established, that is the Dalmasca shown in the raid, which takes all the fanservice from the Ivalice games and shoehorns it into XIV.

By mentioning that raid in the MSQ, it makes all of that shoehorned fanservice canon.

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Canon doesn't care about fan service. Look at Hildibrand. You can't decide whether something should be canon or not based on how well you think the fan service has been used. What matters to canon is what actually happened in the game. The raid doesn't need to be mentioned in the MSQ to be canon as all alliance raids are canon to FFXIV unless otherwise stated, including Yorha.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The thing is that XIV's version of Ivalice easily does the least to differentiate itself from the source material compared to the myriad other references to past FFs. The various Ivalice races just suddenly existed (They bothered giving the Viera and Nu Mou a background that made them feel natural within the world, while the Bangaa and Seeq are just kind of...there and are liable to never show up again), the Ramza of old and his friends were basically the same people they were in FFT, and the lucavi existed for somewhat ill-explained reasons that may never actually matter going into the future.

Crystal Tower did a better job of taking elements from FF III and working to make them fit within XIV's setting, with the namesake tower being an Allagan creation, Xande being the emperor of ancient Allag, and the Cloud of Darkness simply being one of the strongest voidsent in existence as opposed to a force of nature that appears to restore equilibrium between light/dark.

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I would say that doesn't matter because the lore should be big enough to accommodate such existences.

It's like if I were to visit some place on Earth I've never been to and meet the people living there. To me, they would just "suddenly existed" in my awareness if I hadn't known of them beforehand. And if I never go there again, I may never meet them again.

If the world is big enough, some encounters can be one-time occurrences. Not everything has to tie neatly into existing lore. Some things can be entirely new things added to the lore and canon.

You'd think the entire thing about the Lighthouse, the sunken city and the Orbonne Monastery (Alongside Fran's mere existence) would have been enough to sate XI fans.

Not to mention Mustadio, the Thunder God, ULTIMA HERSELF and several other noteworthy players in that particular adventure.

While it's never really a 'bad' thing to expand and flesh the world out more. One has to remember and realize that every Final Fantasy takes place at different times and (more often than not) different timelines / planets all-together. The nods to other games in the series are just meant to be nods or tongue-on-cheek references.

They could easily just not have done it and people would still do the 24-mans. Remember that, if they make a 24-man about a certain niche or franchise (A la the Nier raids we're getting this expansion.) then it's taking the place of something that could be original and unique to XIV's universe.

XIV's Eorzea is amazing by it's own right. It shouldn't need to pilfer from other times and games to prove that and instead, shine by its own strengths.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

You'd think the entire thing about the Lighthouse, the sunken city and the Orbonne Monastery (Alongside Fran's mere existence) would have been enough to sate XI fans.

Not to mention Mustadio, the Thunder God, ULTIMA HERSELF and several other noteworthy players in that particular adventure.

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Don't get me wrong, me and you are on the same side of the face in regards to our opinion on this topic, but Ivalice is FFXII, not FFXI, XI is the mmo that came before XIV

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Don't get me wrong, me and you are on the same side of the face in regards to our opinion on this topic, but Ivalice is FFXII, not FFXI, XI is the mmo that came before XIV

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Wouldn't that mean that the ENTIRETY of XIV is their wish and then some?

Since, if memory serves (I could be wrong and I will freely admit if I am) XIV is after XI's calamity. When they shut down the servers a-la bahamut meteor. Ardbert and his gang being the token warriors of light (Stand-ins for XI vets) and all.

Not to mention people who played / still have their accounts back from XI have a different "Character create" intro cutscene than the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Wouldn't that mean that the ENTIRETY of XIV is their wish and then some?

Since, if memory serves (I could be wrong and I will freely admit if I am) XIV is after XI's calamity. When they shut down the servers a-la bahamut meteor. Ardbert and his gang being the token warriors of light (Stand-ins for XI vets) and all.

Not to mention people who played / still have their accounts back from XI have a different "Character create" intro cutscene than the rest of us.

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That's not from Final Fantasy XI. That's from Final Fantasy XIV 1.0. A Realm Reborn was XIV version 2.0. The calamity happened when they closed down 1.0, which was not related to XI at all.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

That's not from Final Fantasy XI. That's from Final Fantasy XIV 1.0. A Realm Reborn was XIV version 2.0. The calamity happened when they closed down 1.0, which was not related to XI at all.

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Could've sworn XIV 1.0 was XI. My apologies then! Ignore what I said and continue.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Hate to be that guy, but if you want more Nier then go play Nier, or ask Yoko Taro for a new Nier game.

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Knowing him Part 2 very well may be the actual new NieR game. He never makes the same game twice, and mmo is still an open slot on the list.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

XIV's Eorzea is amazing by it's own right. It shouldn't need to pilfer from other times and games to prove that and instead, shine by its own strengths.

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Everything that is in FFXIV is its own strength (and weakness). You don't have to play any of the other games that it referenced to enjoy FFXIV on its own.

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Originally Posted by linay

Everything that is in FFXIV is its own strength (and weakness). You don't have to play any of the other games that it referenced to enjoy FFXIV on its own.

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^This.

And more than that, each FF game is unique with it's own independent storyline, world and cast of characters, only sharing certain reoccuring elements like magic spell names, Job classes, creatures and monsters, story themes and concepts, a character named Cid, etc etc.

FFXIV does reference all the games that came before (as well as those that have come after! ;)) so for those that have played the other FF titles it's a real treat to pick up the sometimes clever and obscure fanservice references, but you do not need to know anything abotu any of the other FF games to appreciate FFXIV's story, as Linay above mentioned. :)

FFXI raid with gear drops being the AF armor from FFXI, yes please.
It would be the only time I every made an effort to gear up and participate in the raid immediately upon release.

That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to a FFXIV raid to explore more of that lore, so how about both? :D

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Originally Posted by Gula

Knowing him Part 2 very well may be the actual new NieR game. He never makes the same game twice, and mmo is still an open slot on the list.

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Thats all well and good, but XIV being canon to Nier doesn't make Nier canon to XIV, and I'd rather see the world of FFXIV expanded within FFXIV, not the world of Nier.

Baldesion Arsenal already scratches that itch XI, giving off huge vibes, the biggest alliance style raid in the game, and offering some fun bosses with amazing music. It's a pain to get into but my god is it a good time reaching the end.

I would much rather have XIV focus on it's own lore instead of piggybacking off other stories. If they want to alternate and give us a new raid series based on XIV's world, I'd be happy for that to counteract the collabs.

To those who enjoy the Ivalice and Nier raids I'm happy for you, truly am. But there comes to a point where years on we'll look back at XIV and the ones that will really stick out to you are the ones like Weeping City and Dun Scaith, mainly due to it keeping the story grounded in it's own world and offering some fantastic set pieces exclusive to XIV.

Like going through Rabanaste and the Factory are cool, but then I look back and remember going through the ruins of Mhach after being thrown off a waterfall,entering Dun Scaith being singed by Ferdiad, running across the woodwork and seeing the pitch black night sky mixed with the purple glow many of the crystals give off due to the voidsent. Then that AMAZING view when you reach the top of the tower with the Moon shining over the platform.

I'm going to remember that more then a zone from Ivalice and Automata from an aethestic standpoint since it's more crafted to XIV. I will say the fights personally hit a high point with Orbonne and TG Cid being a blast, but give me a world like Dun Scaith or something the XIV narrative team can make and I'm all down for it.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

We already had two FFXI-themed crossovers (special limited-time events, and both were FATEs - one featured a giant Shantotto, the other had FATEs that were references to FFXI in general, like 'Dooms' parties against robber crabs on a beach, one against a Dark Dragon and ahriman, Kindred outside a haunted house... and Sekhmet...), so I don't see a FFXI-themed raid line as well.

Besides, Eureka is meant to emulate much of FFXI meta-wise and even has actual music from FFXI (and drops FFXI race minions to boot!), so that's another nail in the coffin to a FFXI-themed raid I'm afraid.

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There's also The Four Lords and Reisen Temple, which were also from XI. Tenzen, too.