Taxes to put off auto-demo

Plots are limited and thats not going to change, so auto-demo needs to occur to clean out plots held by players that have quit/taken a long break.

Alot house owners find themselves in a position of having alot of gil and nothing else to spend it on (but more housing bits). What if there was a tax payment option before auto-demo happened. You could put gil into escro (so it only spends what you allow). Starting on the day auto demo would trigger (day 45 without entering house), it withdraws gil from the account. As long as there is enough gil to make the daily payment, demo is postponed (this also generates an additional email each day you pay demo tax). To prevent rich players from indefinitely locking up a property, the price would dramatically increase over time. Something like this:
Day 45: 100k gil
day 50: 1million gil
day 55: 5million gil
day 60: 20million gil
day 65: 100million gil

Your account would be billed each day, with the unlisted days increasing proportionally (so day 52 might be 2.5 million).

This would provide 2 benefits:
1. People would be have a bit of padding if they miss their auto-demo email. However they couldn't put off demolition indefinitely
2. It creates a serious gil sink for the economy, which would be a good thing.

What is it with people on the forums and trying to get rid of auto demolition in any way they can? There is already an easy solution to not losing your house. USE your house.

Nice idea.
But how about -- use your house at least once a month and not have to worry about it?
I mean, heck. I make time to visit my house, and the FC house, at lesat once a week, even if I Can't play...

My goal wasn't to remove auto demolition. That would be bad. However by extending the deadline for 1-2 weeks we can introduce an amazing gil drain into the economy.

I've seen very poor suggestions in the housing forums, but this might just be the worst one yet.

The only way a rich person can indefinitely lock up a property is by using it just like everyone else. As long as homeowners do this who cares how much or little money they have?

It's a wonderful idea for people who for some reason wont be able to play. Some people may have something to do for a month or two and wont be able to log during that time. You shouldn't have to lose your house because you have responsibility outside of a video game.

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

It's a wonderful idea for people who for some reason wont be able to play. Some people may have something to do for a month or two and wont be able to log during that time. You shouldn't have to lose your house because you have responsibility outside of a video game.

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Wyvernheart the timer is for 45 days so roughly a month and a half.

I do understand that sometimes, real life gets in the way and you can't play the game for some time.

But 45 days is far more than enough to get a chance to reset said timer by just using your house. So many players wishes they'd have a house, if someone can't use their own for that amount of time, perhaps it is for the best that they lose the terrain so someone else can buy it.

No.

Legit, no. We already pay 4M+ gil for the house and plenty of people would be pissed off beyond belief that they lose all of their gil alongside all of the housing items.

While yes, It would be a lovely gil-sink, it would also put a serious dampener on housing in general. We play games to have fun and get away from lifes stresses. Why are you people so adamant in bringing those stresses into it?

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Plots are limited and thats not going to change, so auto-demo needs to occur to clean out plots held by players that have quit/taken a long break.

Alot house owners find themselves in a position of having alot of gil and nothing else to spend it on (but more housing bits). What if there was a tax payment option before auto-demo happened. You could put gil into escro (so it only spends what you allow). Starting on the day auto demo would trigger (day 45 without entering house), it withdraws gil from the account. As long as there is enough gil to make the daily payment, demo is postponed (this also generates an additional email each day you pay demo tax). To prevent rich players from indefinitely locking up a property, the price would dramatically increase over time. Something like this:
Day 45: 100k gil
day 50: 1million gil
day 55: 5million gil
day 60: 20million gil
day 65: 100million gil

Your account would be billed each day, with the unlisted days increasing proportionally (so day 52 might be 2.5 million).

This would provide 2 benefits:
1. People would be have a bit of padding if they miss their auto-demo email. However they couldn't put off demolition indefinitely
2. It creates a serious gil sink for the economy, which would be a good thing.

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No.

If you're not using it, you should lose it. Let someone else who would use it could have a chance at owning a house. Entering the house once every 45 days isn't unreasonable.

Personally I'd like if they double-downed on auto-demo instead. Let's have it so when the timer is exceeded, the Kobolds summon Titan and he Landslides the house off the face of Hydaelyn so someone who actually intends on using the plot can have a chance.

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Originally Posted by SweetestLily

What is it with people on the forums and trying to get rid of auto demolition in any way they can? There is already an easy solution to not losing your house. USE your house.

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It's because people can't take breaks. Which yoshi P says time and time again it's cool to take breaks between patches. But if you own a house you can't take breaks because you'll lose the house.

And it's also people with working commitments. Goingnoverseasnon deployment for 3 months say good Bye to your house.... had an accident and in hospital for a couple of months say goodbye to your house....

Many players have no issue with them claiming back plots that go unused for excessive periods of time. But 45 days really isn't much. Especially when yoshi frequently says hey it's fine to drop your sub between patches and take breaks...

That's why people want it scrapped or at least changed. Theres been numerous suggestions In the past that would work such as leasing plots and stuff.

If a players going to take a break for a few months they can simple pay the next 3 months lease in advance and there house will be safe when they come back..

If it turns out they dont come back after all then the plot still gets relinquished when the lease expires for another player to have a chance to buy and build there own house on.

Or an Npc caretaker. Going away pay him to look after your house and make sure it's still there when you come back... play every day well you wouldn't need to pay a caretaker as youd be looking after it yourself..

Theres lots they could do that's better than the demo system we have in place. Especially when the demo system itself doesnt work half the year because they keep suspending it.

Also depending on leasing costs you could possibly free up plots from players who literally just have an empty house sitting there that never gets used they just hold it because why not... where if it was costing them something and they weren't ever going to use it. Chances are they'd let it go..

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Originally Posted by Dzian

It's because people can't take breaks. Which yoshi P says time and time again it's cool to take breaks between patches. But if you own a house you can't take breaks because you'll lose the house.

And it's also people with working commitments. Goingnoverseasnon deployment for 3 months say good Bye to your house.... had an accident and in hospital for a couple of months say goodbye to your house....

Many players have no issue with them claiming back plots that go unused for excessive periods of time. But 45 days really isn't much. Especially when yoshi frequently says hey it's fine to drop your sub between patches and take breaks...

That's why people want it scrapped or at least changed. Theres been numerous suggestions In the past that would work such as leasing plots and stuff.

If a players going to take a break for a few months they can simple pay the next 3 months lease in advance and there house will be safe when they come back..

If it turns out they dont come back after all then the plot still gets relinquished when the lease expires for another player to have a chance to buy and build there own house on.

Or an Npc caretaker. Going away pay him to look after your house and make sure it's still there when you come back... play every day well you wouldn't need to pay a caretaker as youd be looking after it yourself..

Theres lots they could do that's better than the demo system we have in place. Especially when the demo system itself doesnt work half the year because they keep suspending it.

Also depending on leasing costs you could possibly free up plots from players who literally just have an empty house sitting there that never gets used they just hold it because why not... where if it was costing them something and they weren't ever going to use it. Chances are they'd let it go..

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You can take an entire month off of a sub and the resub the following month and not lose your house. You can give someone trusted your log in info if you are in the hospital or on deployment and they can enter your house for you.

To want the timer scrapped is selfish and entitled. The entire reason this timer exists is because people were quitting the game without relinquishing their plots making it near impossible for anyone to even get a house.

No way would I “lease” something from someone. I would want to own it, with no chances of someone else taking it away from me on a whim. If you want an improvement to the system you need to think of something that serves all sides. Which is why I personally have no issues with the system as is.

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Originally Posted by Lolli282

To want the timer scrapped is selfish and entitled. The entire reason this timer exists is because people were quitting the game without relinquishing their plots making it near impossible for anyone to even get a house.
.

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Nope.theres nothing self entitled about owning a house. The self entitlement comes from people who want what someone else has and expect people to lose there house just so they can have a chance at one themselves.

Expecting to be able to keep something you paid for is not self entitlement at all.

Expecting to have something without earning it or just because someone else does. IS.... as any dictionary definition will tell you.

Again I'm all for reclaiming plots of people who obviously dont play anymore. But theres a big difference between someone who doesnt play any .ore and someone who's just taken a couple of months off to take a break. Which to this day Yoshi himself still says is fine and perfectly acceptable. So taking a break for a couple of months should not lose your house. And dubbing when you have no intention to play that month should not be required.. which ties in with another Yoshi quote that housing would NOT require an active sub to maintain.

But wanting the timers scrapped is not self entitlement at all people generally aren't against reclaiming unused houses there just needs to be a better system in place that falls in line with the devs teams repeated opinions and comments about being able to take breaks between patches and stuff.

Self entitlement is like the new toxicity. A word that's thrown around far to much about anything people may not agree with when they dont understand the very definition of the word. But look up any definition and tell me how you can apply it to people who basically just want to keep what they own worked hard and paid for. There isn't one.

But you will find hundreds of definitions that can relate to people who want peoples houses to get demolished just so they have a chance of getting one themselves because if John has bought a house them Jack is entitled to one to... he pays the same sub yada yada. Entitlement talk

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Nope.theres nothing self entitled about owning a house. The self entitlement comes from people who want what someone else has and expect people to lose there house just so they can have a chance at one themselves.

Expecting to be able to keep something you paid for is not self entitlement at all.

Expecting to have something without earning it or just because someone else does. IS.... as any dictionary definition will tell you.

Again I'm all for reclaiming plots of people who obviously dont play anymore. But theres a big difference between someone who doesnt play any .ore and someone who's just taken a couple of months off to take a break. Which to this day Yoshi himself still says is fine and perfectly acceptable. So taking a break for a couple of months should not lose your house. And dubbing when you have no intention to play that month should not be required.. which ties in with another Yoshi quote that housing would NOT require an active sub to maintain.

But wanting the timers scrapped is not self entitlement at all people generally aren't against reclaiming unused houses there just needs to be a better system in place that falls in line with the devs teams repeated opinions and comments about being able to take breaks between patches and stuff.

Self entitlement is like the new toxicity. A word that's thrown around far to much about anything people may not agree with when they dont understand the very definition of the word. But look up any definition and tell me how you can apply it to people who basically just want to keep what they own worked hard and paid for. There isn't one.

But you will find hundreds of definitions that can relate to people who want peoples houses to get demolished just so they have a chance of getting one themselves because if John has bought a house them Jack is entitled to one to... he pays the same sub yada yada. Entitlement talk

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I agree, there IS nothing self entitled about owning a house.

If you actually read my post you would see that I did not call you self entitled. I said to want the timer scrapped is selfish AND entitled.

You have a house so now you could care less about the timer while those without are dependent on it to clean up unused plots for a shot. You want the rules now in place to disappear in order keep something without actively using it.

Its funny that you say those wanting a house are self entitled. No one said ANYTHING about the placard RNG of hell to get one after seeing an empty plot. Those who do that (without botting) certainly earned their home so I dunno what you are talking about.

The biggest issue with leases and taxes are players with huge amounts of gil. Someone with 800 million could keep their house for years if you only charge like 1 million per month. Pay 3 months in advance leave, come back at the end of the 3 months pay again then take off. They could repeat the cycle forever the other problem is that, it will punish those who have to leave but dont have the gil to cover the length that they will be gone. I racked my brain on how to solve the issue of housing so much there is just no real solution sadly. Well other then SE going with Instance housing..

Terrible suggestion - not only would it encourage RMT, but it also has the potential to leave someone not only homeless after taking a (possibly forced) vacation from the game but also broke. Specially if the withdrawl of money just happens automatically, with no options to turn it off - great, now you have someone who had a small house and maybe enough gil to pay the first 3 or 4 payments, but is still gone for longer. They come back and not only is their house gone, but basically all their money aswell. I wouldnt blame someone for quitting the game after that...

Just step inside your house once every 45 days, shouldnt be to difficult - and if it is the only thing you should lose is the house, nothing else.
Mor gil-sinks would be nice, but there are far better ways to achieve that - expensive mounts and minions, for example.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Terrible suggestion - not only would it encourage RMT, but it also has the potential to leave someone not only homeless after taking a (possibly forced) vacation from the game but also broke. Specially if the withdrawl of money just happens automatically, with no options to turn it off - great, now you have someone who had a small house and maybe enough gil to pay the first 3 or 4 payments, but is still gone for longer. They come back and not only is their house gone, but basically all their money aswell. I wouldnt blame someone for quitting the game after that...

Just step inside your house once every 45 days, shouldnt be to difficult - and if it is the only thing you should lose is the house, nothing else.
Mor gil-sinks would be nice, but there are far better ways to achieve that - expensive mounts and minions, for example.

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I am absolutely with you on all this. Though I wouldn't specifically object if they increased the length of the timer to 60 or 90 days instead of the 45. Two or three months isn't unreasonable either, that's still less than a patch. And for the folks who have RL emergencies crop up it would save a considerable amount of pain and anguish. Although granted, it would also allow those who aren't really using their houses more chance to hang onto them as well. Still, it may benefit more than it harms in this case.

I was wondering when the RMT boogeyman would show up in here. Really goes to show how disconnected some players are I guess.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Expecting to be able to keep something you paid for is not self entitlement at all.

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It is when the purchase comes with rules and restrictions to retain ownership attached, and you don't think those should apply to you.

If you don't like the rules and restrictions, don't make the purchase.

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Originally Posted by Kytrin

I am absolutely with you on all this. Though I wouldn't specifically object if they increased the length of the timer to 60 or 90 days instead of the 45. Two or three months isn't unreasonable either, that's still less than a patch. And for the folks who have RL emergencies crop up it would save a considerable amount of pain and anguish. Although granted, it would also allow those who aren't really using their houses more chance to hang onto them as well. Still, it may benefit more than it harms in this case.

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There's always going to be those who want to argue that it's not long enough and that it should be longer.

To me, 45 days is plenty of time. How often are people away from their homes more than 2 weeks at a time let alone 6? It lets someone skip a month on their subscription if they need to but still come back to their house.

I'd still rather see SE implemented an enhanced instanced housing system where everyone can get the house they want when they're ready to buy and don't have to worry about a demo timer because their ownership doesn't prevent others from also owning. But as long as housing is a limited resource, we need the demo timer and 45 days is reasonable length of time to allow people to take a break for real life conflicts that prevent them from logging in. Far better than leaving a house in the hands of people who go "I deserve to have this thing even though I don't want to play the game most of the time".

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

To me, 45 days is plenty of time. How often are people away from their homes more than 2 weeks at a time let alone 6? It lets someone skip a month on their subscription if they need to but still come back to their house.

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I can think of enough life events that can keep someone from logging into game for a month to justify something a bit longer than 45 days.

- You or your loved one (parent, SO, child) gets into a severe accident or some other equally severe hospital worthy event. Your priority is no longer game. It's getting to the hospital, dealing with doctors, visiting hours, severe drugs, putting on a brave face, and trying to get better. 45 days can go in an instant before you even remember to think of that

- You have a child. You're not thinking about game with that. You're thinking about diaper changes, feeding times, weird sniffles or fevers, sleep deprivation, doctor visits, post-partum depression, and a ton of other stuff. You'll be lucky if you manage to even remember game exists let alone your house in a month. (Granted, new parents seem to have a problem remembering that sort of things in the first SIX months, and there's no way the timer should be that long, but the point stands)

- You move, and there's some problem with your internet. Bad signal, incompetent setup, lengthy delays for one reason or another. All of that can add up quick. I admit this is the weakest one in general, since theoretically you would still have SOME kind of access SOMEWHERE these days, but if may not be powerful enough to let you log into game. Or you may not have a laptop. Good luck setting up a desktop at your local Starbucks because Comcast is stupid in your area.

- There's a natural disaster that destroys all your things. SE is pretty good, if slow, about turning off the demolition timer (even if they leave it on forever afterwards) for large scale disasters, but it generally takes them more than a month to even make that decision. Which leaves you SOL if you were one of the first affected. And that doesn't cover things like your house catching on fire, flood, blizzard, whatever disaster might strike a person individually. It can take literally MONTHS for insurance to go through in the worst cases, and there's not a thing you can do.

There are others I'm sure, but those are the ones off the top of my head.

Now I know there's always the whole 'have a friend log in for you' angle, but that doesn't work for everyone either. Some people may not have anyone irl who can do that for them. Or anyone online they trust enough to log in for them like that. And THAT is why I would back them lengthening the timer a little. It would cut anyone who fell into the above categories a little more slack without it being absurd, and I don't see how that's a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Kytrin

I can think of enough life events that can keep someone from logging into game for a month to justify something a bit longer than 45 days.

- You or your loved one (parent, SO, child) gets into a severe accident or some other equally severe hospital worthy event. Your priority is no longer game. It's getting to the hospital, dealing with doctors, visiting hours, severe drugs, putting on a brave face, and trying to get better. 45 days can go in an instant before you even remember to think of that

- You have a child. You're not thinking about game with that. You're thinking about diaper changes, feeding times, weird sniffles or fevers, sleep deprivation, doctor visits, post-partum depression, and a ton of other stuff. You'll be lucky if you manage to even remember game exists let alone your house in a month. (Granted, new parents seem to have a problem remembering that sort of things in the first SIX months, and there's no way the timer should be that long, but the point stands)

- You move, and there's some problem with your internet. Bad signal, incompetent setup, lengthy delays for one reason or another. All of that can add up quick. I admit this is the weakest one in general, since theoretically you would still have SOME kind of access SOMEWHERE these days, but if may not be powerful enough to let you log into game. Or you may not have a laptop. Good luck setting up a desktop at your local Starbucks because Comcast is stupid in your area.

- There's a natural disaster that destroys all your things. SE is pretty good, if slow, about turning off the demolition timer (even if they leave it on forever afterwards) for large scale disasters, but it generally takes them more than a month to even make that decision. Which leaves you SOL if you were one of the first affected. And that doesn't cover things like your house catching on fire, flood, blizzard, whatever disaster might strike a person individually. It can take literally MONTHS for insurance to go through in the worst cases, and there's not a thing you can do.

There are others I'm sure, but those are the ones off the top of my head.

Now I know there's always the whole 'have a friend log in for you' angle, but that doesn't work for everyone either. Some people may not have anyone irl who can do that for them. Or anyone online they trust enough to log in for them like that. And THAT is why I would back them lengthening the timer a little. It would cut anyone who fell into the above categories a little more slack without it being absurd, and I don't see how that's a bad thing.

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Increasing the timer will not help or change things. Enough time for one person is not enough time for someone else. We will end up right back at this point with someone saying the timer is not long enough.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It is when the purchase comes with rules and restrictions to retain ownership attached, and you don't think those should apply to you.

If you don't like the rules and restrictions, don't make the purchase.

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And if the purchase was made prior to those restrictions being implemented what then?

Anyway 45 days is not enough. The game and the developers need to be consistent and on the same page.

So what this means is when the development team repeatedly say it's a acceptable to unsubscribe and take breaks between patches. The game systems need to reflect and allow that.

Any demo timers then should be at least a full patch cycle.so if patch 5.2 lands and someone smashes it all within a week if he then chooses to unsubscribe until patch 5.3 or 5.4 if you only count main patches and not catch up patches. his house should be safe when he comes back.

As I've said before I'm not opposed to them reclaiming unused houses from long standing inactive players. But there needs to be consistency between what the devs say and what the game policies say.

Right now the game policies and the devs contradict each other. That's the problem.

In order to be consistent the either the devs should turn around say nope sorry no breaks allowed... or the demo timers should be extended to cover a patch cycle that will then support the devs instead of contradict them

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Originally Posted by Dzian

And if the purchase was made prior to those restrictions being implemented what then?

Anyway 45 days is not enough. The game and the developers need to be consistent and on the same page.

So what this means is when the development team repeatedly say it's a acceptable to unsubscribe and take breaks between patches. The game systems need to reflect and allow that.

Any demo timers then should be at least a full patch cycle.so if patch 5.2 lands and someone smashes it all within a week if he then chooses to unsubscribe until patch 5.3 or 5.4 if you only count main patches and not catch up patches. his house should be safe when he comes back.

As I've said before I'm not opposed to them reclaiming unused houses from long standing inactive players. But there needs to be consistency between what the devs say and what the game policies say.

Right now the game policies and the devs contradict each other. That's the problem.

In order to be consistent the either the devs should turn around say nope sorry no breaks allowed... or the demo timers should be extended to cover a patch cycle that will then support the devs instead of contradict them

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They also want houses to be owned and used by active players not someone who plays for 2 weeks then is gone for 6 months. The house is better used by a player who is present and playing a majority of that 6 months.

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Originally Posted by Kytrin

I can think of enough life events that can keep someone from logging into game for a month to justify something a bit longer than 45 days.

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It's not a question of how many you can think of. I can think of plenty myself.

It's a question of how often do those things actually happen for those who have chosen to play the game and buy a house.

When a real life crisis happens, the game and what's in it becomes irrelevant. You're taking care of real life first. A house in a game isn't even worth thinking about. So what if you end up losing it? You can always get another when you come back and are able to devote more of your time to the game again.

I've already had that happen to me once. After returning, I had to wait 6 months before I was able to get a house again. It looks like it might happen to me again soon. If I have to be gone longer than 45 days, then I lose the house. It's nothing compared to dealing with what's going on in my life. I can always get another once I am able to return to the game, even if it means waiting another 6 months to a year for one to become available.

People need to get some perspective instead of thinking that losing a house in a video game is some major tragedy that will devastate their lives. That's an entitled, spoiled brat point of view that shouldn't be encouraged.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

And if the purchase was made prior to those restrictions being implemented what then?

Anyway 45 days is not enough. The game and the developers need to be consistent and on the same page.

So what this means is when the development team repeatedly say it's a acceptable to unsubscribe and take breaks between patches. The game systems need to reflect and allow that.

Any demo timers then should be at least a full patch cycle.so if patch 5.2 lands and someone smashes it all within a week if he then chooses to unsubscribe until patch 5.3 or 5.4 if you only count main patches and not catch up patches. his house should be safe when he comes back.

As I've said before I'm not opposed to them reclaiming unused houses from long standing inactive players. But there needs to be consistency between what the devs say and what the game policies say.

Right now the game policies and the devs contradict each other. That's the problem.

In order to be consistent the either the devs should turn around say nope sorry no breaks allowed... or the demo timers should be extended to cover a patch cycle that will then support the devs instead of contradict them

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Then you decide if it's content you want to continue to participate in once the rules change. Not entering your house once every 45 days means you've decided to stop participating. It's no different from any other part of the game that changes each expansion (or even each patch sometimes). You make the decision if the content is still right for you after the changes are implemented.

There is no inconsistency or contradiction going on when it comes to the dev team and game policies. Housing is minor side content intended to give players who are playing throughout the patch cycle some addition content to fill their time. If you're only coming back to play through new content when it's released then quitting again for another 4-5 months, it's clearly not content you're using to fill your additional game time.

You are clearly opposed to reclaiming houses from players who are inactive. Someone who only shows up to play for 2 weeks every 4-5 months is inactive 90% of the year. They should not receive preferential treatment over a player who is active 90% of the year.

Keep in mind you're still not locked completely out of housing if you like to take those long breaks. Get an apartment. It doesn't have a demo timer. It will never be taken from you unless you voluntarily relinquish it.

But you shouldn't get to keep a limited resource you are not using when it could be in the hands of someone who would be using it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

People need to get some perspective instead of thinking that losing a house in a video game is some major tragedy that will devastate their lives. That's an entitled, spoiled brat point of view that shouldn't be encouraged.

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Well excuse me for attempting to see both sides of an issue, and empathizing with people who have put as much into their house as I have mine. Or for trying to propose that 60 or 90 days isn't really much more unreasonable than 45.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Someone who only shows up to play for 2 weeks every 4-5 months is inactive 90% of the year. They should not receive preferential treatment over a player who is active 90% of the year.

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So your saying if you play 90% of the year you deserve preferential treatment over someone who doesn't. Or that playing more somehow makes you more entitled to a house than someone who plays less... that's ridiculous.

By that logic only those who still live at home with mom and dad and dont have a job or real life should qualify for a house because only they can put those hours in..

While I said it should be possible to take breaks between patches occasionally I did not mean every patch all of the time. That would be an extreme case.

But then if you play 90% of the year then you play 21hours and 36 minutes a day.. maybe fatigue is setting in. See I can be extreme too..

So once again I'm not opposed to reclaiming long standing inactive houses. But players should be allowed to take breaks occasionally..

Even a 90 day demo timer would be better that would pretty much cover a patch. 5.2 to 5.3 for example..

It's obvious the existing timer is too short because all you really need to do is look at how much of the last 3-4 years the entire thing has been suspended. Theres been times in heavensward and storm blood where I've dropped my sub for 4-5 months and not lost my house because the timer has been suspended. Which again brings about a lack of consistency.

It spends more time under suspension than it does running.. (well not quite but it isn't far off when it's often suspended for months at a time) if the timer was more reasonable then it simply wouldn't need to be suspended all the time.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

So your saying if you play 90% of the year you deserve preferential treatment over someone who doesn't. Or that playing more somehow makes you more entitled to a house than someone who plays less... that's ridiculous.

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When SE has no guarantee you will be returning after you stop playing?

No, it's not ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

By that logic only those who still live at home with mom and dad and dont have a job or real life should qualify for a house because only they can put those hours in..

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Now that is something ridiculous to say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzian

While I said it should be possible to take breaks between patches occasionally I did not mean every patch all of the time. That would be an extreme case.

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It is possible to take breaks between patches - for up to 45 days without losing a house.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzian

But then if you play 90% of the year then you play 21hours and 36 minutes a day.. maybe fatigue is setting in. See I can be extreme too.

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I wasn't being extreme, no matter how you try to twist it. Try coming up with a rational rebuttal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzian

So once again I'm not opposed to reclaiming long standing inactive houses. But players should be allowed to take breaks occasionally..

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No one is being prevented from taking a break. It's their choice to value ownership of a virtual house in a game over other things.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Even a 90 day demo timer would be better that would pretty much cover a patch. 5.2 to 5.3 for example..

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You're contradicting what you said above. So which do you mean?

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Originally Posted by Dzian

It's obvious the existing timer is too short because all you really need to do is look at how much of the last 3-4 years the entire thing has been suspended. Theres been times in heavensward and storm blood where I've dropped my sub for 4-5 months and not lost my house because the timer has been suspended. Which again brings about a lack of consistency.

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How long SE suspends the demo timer following a natural disaster has nothing to do with whether the timer is too short. Someone unable to play because of a disaster is not the same as someone deciding they don't want to play.

Nice to see you brag about how you were using someone else's misfortune to benefit yourself without regard for how your actions were affecting others.

I'd love to see an option to retain ownership of a house and have it not be demolished over the long term. I've had stints on the hospital longer than 45 days a couple times over the past couple of years and have lost my house each time. I'm lucky enough to be on a server where small plots are usually available and I've been able to get another one when I was able to play again. However, that resulted in the loss of more than 15 million gil; a not-insignificant amount on my server, and something that takes a lot of time to recover from.

I agree that demolishing/automatic relinquishment of a plot due to inactivity is helpful on full servers with no available housing. However; for those people who are unable to play for more than 45 days due to RL circumstances, auto demo is a significant deal, especially as it can mean they're not going to be able to get a house again in the future.

The old method of needing to maintain an active subscription to keep your house was good as that usually indicates intent to be active again in the future. Barring that, and YoshiP's statement that it's fine to tale breaks, a separate "house maintenance" charge/subscription when cancelling an active sub during breaks could be a good alternative.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

The old method of needing to maintain an active subscription to keep your house was good as that usually indicates intent to be active again in the future. Barring that, and YoshiP's statement that it's fine to tale breaks, a separate "house maintenance" charge/subscription when cancelling an active sub during breaks could be a good alternative.

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This isn't necessarily a bad idea, but I think it'd be better to improve apartments so that they could be upgraded (for additional gil cost) to provide all the amenities of a house (outdoor space, additional item slots, crossbreeding, etc). That way those who want to take breaks or who know they may need extended absences can have a permanent space that they know they will not lose. The ward housing can remain for those who enjoy the neighborhood feel, and hardcore housing enthusiasts can use both for the additional decorating potential.

I don't see the auto demo going away any time soon, unless they overhaul housing completely to remove the 'limited quantity' restriction. However, I think they should extend the amount of time that the housing NPC holds your furnishings and gil in the event that your house is demolished. At least 6 months, not just 30 days.

I was thinking about this more yesterday and remembered LOTRO's system. The game would auto generate another neighborhood each time the current one filled up. Also, we had to pay a gold rental fee each month, with option to pay up to 6 months in advance. If rent/maintenance/taxes went unpaid you'd lose the house. After some consideration this seems like the best of both worlds; there would never be a lack of housing and the monthly gold/gil fee would make for a regular gil sink. Being able to pay ahead would also be a good means of letting people keep ownership of the plot during periods when they're not subscribed or are just taking a break but are still subscribed.

My way to put off auto-demo would be to allow tenants to reset the timer too. Me and my girlfriend share a house and it would be great if her use of the house also reset the timer.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Alot house owners find themselves in a position of having alot of gil and nothing else to spend it on (but more housing bits). What if there was a tax payment option before auto-demo happened.

It creates a serious gil sink for the economy, which would be a good thing.

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You seem to be making the mistake of thinking that most wealthy players don't spend their gil because they have bought everything already. I'm very wealthy but I haven't bought everything. Why? I only buy things I want to have. I don't buy everything just because I can. There are substantial gil sinks I am refusing to engage in because I don't want whatever it is I get from it.

So spinning a tax payment as some sort of solution to players with nothing to spend their money on is pretty silly. No wealthy player is going to rejoice and think "finally something to sink my gil in to!" especially when they don't even gain anything new from it, or maybe nothing at all. Certainly this tax idea is completely irrelevant to a player who regularly enters their house.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

To prevent rich players from indefinitely locking up a property, the price would dramatically increase over time.

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I don't know why you think tax would prevent this. Those players you are talking about already hang on to their houses just fine without help from your tax idea. How is tax going to stop them from doing that when they clearly can consistently prevent demolition by entering their house? If anything your tax idea actually allows them to hang on to plots for longer while paying for less game time.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

My goal wasn't to remove auto demolition. That would be bad. However by extending the deadline for 1-2 weeks we can introduce an amazing gil drain into the economy.

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As I already mentioned before, your idea for a gil drain would be irrelevant to anyone who regularly enters their house. This would only be a legitimate gil drain if paying the tax was unavoidable.

Also how about we get some FUN things for amazing gil drains instead? Emotes, hairstyles, glam, furniture, the ability to expand the interior of homes (extra rooms and floors), the ability to purchase more npc slots for homes, the ability to purchase more retainer bell slots (very much needed for mansions!)...that's the sort of thing people want to sink their gil in to. Not tax.

I understand you want to sort out the issue of people hoarding houses and also provide a gil sink, but this is not the way to do either successfully.

I'd rather not see a tax implemented. It'd simply lead to further frustration with the housing system.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

I'd love to see an option to retain ownership of a house and have it not be demolished over the long term. I've had stints on the hospital longer than 45 days a couple times over the past couple of years and have lost my house each time. I'm lucky enough to be on a server where small plots are usually available and I've been able to get another one when I was able to play again. However, that resulted in the loss of more than 15 million gil; a not-insignificant amount on my server, and something that takes a lot of time to recover from.

I agree that demolishing/automatic relinquishment of a plot due to inactivity is helpful on full servers with no available housing. However; for those people who are unable to play for more than 45 days due to RL circumstances, auto demo is a significant deal, especially as it can mean they're not going to be able to get a house again in the future.

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Considering your statment of "15 million gil being a lot of money", a tax actually works against you here, since it would be taken out of your account wether you want it or not, potentially draining it dry before you come back with the possibilty that you still lost your house because there was no gil left to pay the tax. Now you're homeless and broke, while with the current system you can make the choice to either look for a new house and spend money on it again or just write up that one-time-loss and settle for an apartment.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

The old method of needing to maintain an active subscription to keep your house was good as that usually indicates intent to be active again in the future. Barring that, and YoshiP's statement that it's fine to tale breaks, a separate "house maintenance" charge/subscription when cancelling an active sub during breaks could be a good alternative.

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That was never the old method. You didnt even need an active subscription to keep your house before auto-demolition - you just bought it and then it set there, being yours forever, wether or not you still paid for the game or not.
Considering how limited housing is, I also dont think that that would have been (or is) a good solution - housing should go to those people who actually care enough about the content to engage with it once every 45 days, which is a very low bar (personal crisis aside). If you're already subscride to the game, is it to much to ask to log in once every 45 days (or arrange for someone trusted to log in every 45 days), enter your house and log out again - something that takes less than 2 minutes?

Until we get unlimited, instances housing, I personally feel that thats not to much to ask. And a way better solution than any form of tax.

No I paid for my house and the items in it. I worked hard for it. We don't need taxes. How about a paying sub it's pretty easy. You pay a sub you keep your stuff. It's really not that difficult.