blue mage and NG+

Is there a reason you can't replay the msq on blu up to 3.5?
feels like a missed opportunity

Quote:

---

Required Class/Job: Any Disciple of War or Magic (excluding limited jobs)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZoeS

Is there a reason you can't replay the msq on blu up to 3.5?
feels like a missed opportunity

---

It's probably because you cannot do the MSQ at all with BLU (as far as I now). Once they have the job quests in NG+, you might be able to redo BLU quests.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linay

It's probably because you cannot do the MSQ at all with BLU (as far as I now). Once they have the job quests in NG+, you might be able to redo BLU quests.

---

i really hope that changes, blu was promoted as a "solo" job, msqs are the biggest solo content in the game if you don't count dungeons and trials

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZoeS

i really hope that changes, blu was promoted as a "solo" job, msqs are the biggest solo content in the game if you don't count dungeons and trials

---

They can possibly make the change in the future, but they would have to raise the level cap to the max for the expansion first and keep it up for subsequent expansions. Otherwise, there would be no point in forcing you to switch job because the next quest needs a higher level than BLU can be.

It could be a side effect of 'spaghetti code' issues with how blue mage's leveling works, rather than an active decision that "blue mage should not be allowed at do MSQ".

It can't just be about not wanting people to level that way, because it gets so much EXP from enemies compared to the slivers you get from quests.

Maybe the multiplier on battle EXP would apply to quests too?

Or does blue mage have a lower amount of EXP required per level to begin with?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

It could be a side effect of 'spaghetti code' issues with how blue mage's leveling works, rather than an active decision that "blue mage should not be allowed at do MSQ".

It can't just be about not wanting people to level that way, because it gets so much EXP from enemies compared to the slivers you get from quests.

Maybe the multiplier on battle EXP would apply to quests too?

Or does blue mage have a lower amount of EXP required per level to begin with?

---

I don't think it's because of their multiplied battle exp. Most likely the main reason is their lower level cap. What's the sense of giving an opportuinity to do MSQ with a job if you will never be able to catch up the latest story with it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Halivel

I don't think it's because of their multiplied battle exp. Most likely the main reason is their lower level cap. What's the sense of giving an opportuinity to do MSQ with a job if you will never be able to catch up the latest story with it?

---

that's... a very fair point tbh, still wish it was otherwise since the NG+ itself is split into multiple parts

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZoeS

i really hope that changes, blu was promoted as a "solo" job, msqs are the biggest solo content in the game if you don't count dungeons and trials

---

It wasn't promoted as a solo job, they just failed to clarify what they intended to do with it.

it wouldn't be much of a limited job if it wasn't heavily limited.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It wasn't promoted as a solo job, they just failed to clarify what they intended to do with it.

---

I dont know why people perpetuate that it wasnt promoted as a solo job, they literally had a big ass slide saying designed for solo play/ not suited for parties

Blue mage can't do NG+ because it can't do the MSQ normally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It wasn't promoted as a solo job, they just failed to clarify what they intended to do with it.

---

https://i.imgur.com/2KkkZeN.png%20http://

I have this portion of the slide ready at any time I see this now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZoeS

feels like a missed opportunity

---

The whole job feels like a missed opportunity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I dont know why people perpetuate that it wasnt promoted as a solo job, they literally had a big ass slide saying designed for solo play/ not suited for parties

---

I don't know how you could take that tagline as anything but as BLU being intended as a solo job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LauraAdalena

<image>
I have this portion of the slide ready at any time I see this now.

---

I might keep this for that purpose too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LauraAdalena

https://i.imgur.com/2KkkZeN.png%20http://

I have this portion of the slide ready at any time I see this now.

---

One possible explanation would be it's designed for solo play more than any other job (faster leveling in open world, masked carnival, perhaps being able to solo certain duties at level), but it's not designed only for solo play, and it's not suited for parties due to limitations (not being able to match make or do certain contents due to level cap).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I dont know why people perpetuate that it wasnt promoted as a solo job, they literally had a big ass slide saying designed for solo play/ not suited for parties

---

That was still in the early stages of development. Things change.

Have they ever talked about it being a solo job since all the details came out? Or are you all just determined to hold them to a concept that they haven't talked about in years and clearly aren't trying to implement?

If they kept saying "it's a solo job... and here's another twenty skills you'll need to learn from group content", it would make sense to complain about it. But holding up the same old slide and asking why they aren't following it... well, clearly they aren't, and they're not intending to. Bringing it up over and over just gets tedious.

Maybe they'd only designed the Masked Carnivale when they wrote that slide, and hadn't decided how the skills were going to be learned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Or are you all just determined to hold them to a concept that they haven't talked about in years and clearly aren't trying to implement?

---

To be fair, it has not been years as it was only last year. But, yes, it could be an early design that they're moving away from. That said, it was mere months between announcement and release and they could've said something if there was a shift in design, so I think my explanation above has some validity.

If they showed signs of being made into a real party job, then yeah I sure wouldn't point back that slide of them advertising it as a solo job. After all, I found the initial idea of an entire job relegated into being a mere solo mini-game to be a stupid idea to begin with. But that still isn't happening either, they'd repeatedly stated they have absolutely no intentions of making Blue Mage a real job, so what IS their plans for Blue Mage to be, and for whom, cause right now it exists in a limbo state of neither the solo job it was advertised nor the real party capable job that it should have been to begin with. So what is the end goal for BLU here?

The fact that it can't even do the most basic solo content in the game, the MSQ, is laughable at best for something that once claimed to be solo focused.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archangelus

The fact that it can't even do the most basic solo content in the game, the MSQ, is laughable at best for something that once claimed to be solo focused.

---

As I said earlier, there would be no point in being able to do MSQ when BLU is limited in level. It's not something you can depend on to progress through the MSQ, especially since the MSQ contains dungeons and trials, making it even less efficient to do on a job that cannot queue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linay

One possible explanation would be it's designed for solo play more than any other job (faster leveling in open world, masked carnival, perhaps being able to solo certain duties at level), but it's not designed only for solo play, and it's not suited for parties due to limitations (not being able to match make or do certain contents due to level cap).

---

While that is a logical conclusion to make, you have to keep in mind you needed a group to get any of the primal spells or some of the later dungeon spells making that a moot point. However, here's the problem I have with your statement: While obviously the emphasis is on "only" the sentence "but it's not designed only for solo play, and it's not suited for parties due to limitations." Then why even say "not suited for parties" if it's not designed "only" for solo play?

I'm actually more willing to believe the person who followed you:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

That was still in the early stages of development. Things change.

---

Yes! They do! But at the moment its a mis-mashed confused mess between whether it's solo or not. It's designed with death spells and stuff in mind but balanced and encourages party play. Which is it? Is it trying to be different and solo?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Have they ever talked about it being a solo job since all the details came out? Or are you all just determined to hold them to a concept that they haven't talked about in years and clearly aren't trying to implement?

---

To answer your questions: 1. No, but have they talked about moving away from the solo stuff and more towards parties? Not really either.

2. Here's the thing. It's not just a "they said this" it's also an "look how it's designed" thing. It discourages partying up until high level or until you need an ability from a leveling dungeon (or just wait until you can solo that dungeon as BLU by outleveling it, which now means you can't get a guarunteed spell which is stupid). Then it's either the Masked Carnivale (which was sidelined this patch for the most part), then it's like "Alright you need a party for all these skills" when you've been fine solo and now the Blue Log which just encourages parties. If this is party content why isn't the Masked Carnivale now just class instances? If it's solo content why are you encouraging partying up? SE hasn't given a definitive answer either way except, you guessed it, in that slide portion I posted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

If they kept saying "it's a solo job... and here's another twenty skills you'll need to learn from group content", it would make sense to complain about it. But holding up the same old slide and asking why they aren't following it... well, clearly they aren't, and they're not intending to. Bringing it up over and over just gets tedious.

---

Honestly, this is where I stop thinking you're actually saying an opinion about the class and more just tired of hearing about Blue Mage and tired of people expressing they wish it was more solo. I don't care if you think it's tedious, and many people don't find it tedious. I didn't find it tedious when I kept talking about Eureka every time it got patched in. Now Eureka, that was tedious (I know it wasn't a funny joke if you even read it as one, which you probably didn't). The reason I don't is because I'm not just holding up a single slide and saying "why not solo content" I'm asking questions. I'm asking, "Push it one way or the other, don't leave us in the dark or try to walk the line. Balance it for party content and give us a full class or make it your solo limited-content thing." And the big thing that a lot of people see is that if they keep pushing this Blue Mage party stuff and keep balancing it like it's party content, why is it not a fully fleshed-out class? Hell, people have even created rotations for Blue Mage now. Something they said they wouldn't have in the class because they weren't sure how that would work if it would at all. In case you haven't guessed it: It's not tedious because we want to enjoy this content. If we didn't care we wouldn't be so passionate on making the class what se wee as enjoyable. Right or wrong, you have to accept that we love the game and want every bit of it to be great and when we don't enjoy it we talk to hopefully make it better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Maybe they'd only designed the Masked Carnivale when they wrote that slide, and hadn't decided how the skills were going to be learned.

---

Nah nah nah nah. That was when they announced how the skills were going to be learned. Don't walk into a discussion with "maybes" and "perhapses" if you don't know the whole context. That slide was a part of the second fan fest, when the first they had announced the class the second they dove deep into exactly what it would be. Including how they'd learn skills, what to expect from it, why they chose this, and the first tease of The Masked Carnivale. While you did a commendable effort trying to rationalize without the context, you can also easily look up the Fan Fest to get this footage since they streamed them on twitch this time and, from my recollection please correct me if I'm wrong, left the vod up for all to see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LauraAdalena

While that is a logical conclusion to make, you have to keep in mind you needed a group to get any of the primal spells or some of the later dungeon spells making that a moot point. However, here's the problem I have with your statement: While obviously the emphasis is on "only" the sentence "but it's not designed only for solo play, and it's not suited for parties due to limitations." Then why even say "not suited for parties" if it's not designed "only" for solo play?

---

I think it's the other way around. If it's designed only for solo play, then there would be no reason to say it's not suited for parties as that would be a given.

Basically, that slide emphasizes the two features of BLU: (1) There are more things to do solo with BLU, and while there are also things to do in a party, (2) it's not suited for regular party activities due to limitations. Both have to be stated because BLU can do both solo and party activities, but a little differently than other jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linay

I think it's the other way around. If it's designed only for solo play, then there would be no reason to say it's not suited for parties as that would be a given.

Basically, that slide emphasizes the two features of BLU: (1) There are more things to do solo with BLU, and while there are also things to do in a party, (2) it's not suited for regular party activities due to limitations. Both have to be stated because BLU can do both solo and party activities, but a little differently than other jobs.

---

However, this is where my later part of that comment comes into play. Why lean one way toward being unbalanced solo-focused and limiting the party things it can do, then immediately not give it enough power to beat level 50 duties solo or at least not as easily as it could with a 70/80 class helping, or even more content so that way players can really feel like it was worth the trade-off, and on top of that make the skills it has tons of things immune to them? Why make it balanced for parties, but then not give it max level, not allow it to use DF, not allow it to NG+, and give it skills that then also just undermine the balance they tried to keep?

It goes both ways and I wish it would choose one. Give us a reason to get all the skills and more content to do outside of the Masked Carnivale. Hey, maybe like even some optional Blue-Only dungeons or something I'd be fine with at this point to at least make it feel they have a direction they have chosen. If you don't want to do that, rebalance it toward party play and make it a normal job. I'm fine with either personally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LauraAdalena

Nah nah nah nah. That was when they announced how the skills were going to be learned. Don't walk into a discussion with "maybes" and "perhapses" if you don't know the whole context. That slide was a part of the second fan fest, when the first they had announced the class the second they dove deep into exactly what it would be. Including how they'd learn skills, what to expect from it, why they chose this, and the first tease of The Masked Carnivale. While you did a commendable effort trying to rationalize without the context, you can also easily look up the Fan Fest to get this footage since they streamed them on twitch this time and, from my recollection please correct me if I'm wrong, left the vod up for all to see.

---

Yeah, the vod is still up, I can confirm this firsthand having actually gone back to watch both the reveal and the live letter that happened the next day where they clarified what a limited job was and why it had to be the way it was, just recently. The self same live letter Yoshi-P spent a solid 5 minutes, with that slide up on screen, talking about how being in a group with a BLU that kills Omega in one hit with Level 5 Death wouldn't be fun, but it also wouldn't be fun for the BLU player to have Level 5 Death and not have it be able to one shot a raid boss like Omega, and that because of this it had to be a solo, limited job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archangelus

Yeah, the vod is still up, I can confirm this firsthand having actually gone back to watch both the reveal and the live letter that happened the next day where they clarified what a limited job was and why it had to be the way it was, just recently. The self same live letter Yoshi-P spent a solid 5 minutes, with that slide up on screen, talking about how being in a group with a BLU that kills Omega in one hit with Level 5 Death wouldn't be fun, but it also wouldn't be fun for the BLU player to have Level 5 Death and not have it be able to one shot a raid boss like Omega, and that because of this it had to be a solo, limited job.

---

Yet bosses are immune to broken blue mage stuff so that was just lies being tossed around by Yoshi-p to try and justify it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rita1989

Yet bosses are immune to broken blue mage stuff so that was just lies being tossed around by Yoshi-p to try and justify it.

---

Which is why I'm upset about the whole not being solo enough because they literally fixed the exact problem they brought up after saying they wouldn't do that and let you do that shit to bosses. When really the only bosses you can do that to are bosses in the Masked Carnivale and it doesn't always work on that one afaik.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LauraAdalena

However, this is where my later part of that comment comes into play. Why lean one way toward being unbalanced solo-focused and limiting the party things it can do, then immediately not give it enough power to beat level 50 duties solo or at least not as easily as it could with a 70/80 class helping, or even more content so that way players can really feel like it was worth the trade-off, and on top of that make the skills it has tons of things immune to them? Why make it balanced for parties, but then not give it max level, not allow it to use DF, not allow it to NG+, and give it skills that then also just undermine the balance they tried to keep?

It goes both ways and I wish it would choose one. Give us a reason to get all the skills and more content to do outside of the Masked Carnivale. Hey, maybe like even some optional Blue-Only dungeons or something I'd be fine with at this point to at least make it feel they have a direction they have chosen. If you don't want to do that, rebalance it toward party play and make it a normal job. I'm fine with either personally.

---

That, I have no guess for as it depends on how ultimately they want to develop BLU specifically or limited job in general.

I hope that the "No MSQ with Blue Mage" thing is addressed, because it feels silly. Maybe part of the issue is that Blue Mage doesn't have abilities tied to levels, so they're worried you might be able to do something like break a solo duty you're supposed to lose or wait for reinforcements on? Could also explain why it's not allowed in PotD.